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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 09:58 AM
Original message
What I Lost at Kent State
by Elaine Holstein

On Tuesday, it will be 40 years since my son Jeff was shot and killed on the campus of his college. He and three of his classmates were murdered by the National Guard at an antiwar demonstration at Kent State.

During a 13-second fusillade of rifle fire, Jeff, Allison Krause, Sandy Scheuer, and Bill Schroeder were killed and nine of their fellow students were wounded.

The students who had gathered that day - all unarmed - held a large range of opinions about the seemingly endless war in Vietnam.

Some, including Jeff, objected intensely to the increasing escalation of a war that had begun when they were barely in their teens. In fact, Jeff had written a poem about the war titled "Where Does It End?" in February 1966, shortly before he turned 16.

Others in the crowd had mixed feelings. Some were just onlookers. Some, like Sandy, were on their way to their next class.

And so, May 4, 1970, became one of the blackest days in the history of our country.

It was the day I not only lost my child but also lost my innocence.

I could no longer take on faith what I had been taught all my life about my "constitutional rights," the rights that supposedly made our country different from so many others.

The decade that followed was filled for me with grief, anger, disillusionment, and lawsuits. At the end of our legal battles, we were pressured by the judge and by our lawyers into accepting a settlement in which the parents of the dead students discovered that their sons' and daughters' lives were worth a mere $15,000 each.

It was never about the money for me. I wanted an admission of culpability, and more than that, I wanted an assurance that no mother would ever again have to bury a child for simply exercising the freedom of speech. But all we got was a watered-down statement that better ways must be found, etc., etc.

I also discovered what I perhaps should have known already: that so many of my compatriots did not feel as I did. They believed that the students who were killed or wounded got what they deserved and, as I heard far too often, the National Guard "should have killed more of them." And now - 40 years later - those wounded students are almost senior citizens.

Jeff, however, remains in my memory forever as that bright, funny, passionate 20-year-old.

I have spent 40 years watching my son Russ, Jeff's big brother, grow older. I've valued (perhaps more than I would have if Jeff had not died) the close, satisfying relationship we share.

I've had the great joy of seeing my grandchildren, Jeff (yes, another Jeff Miller) and Jamie, evolve from cute little children into a couple of the most admirable adults I know. I've danced at their weddings and have been made happy by their happiness.

But, once in a while, I wonder about my son Jeff's future, which had so needlessly been cut short.

What would he have been like now at age 60? What sort of career would he have had? Would he have married? And what about those other grandchildren that my husband and I might have enjoyed? Now, as I watch the news on TV each night, I deplore the increasing ugliness of politics, and I'm afraid. I know too well what can happen when hatred takes over.

Please, let us lower the volume and be civil toward one another. For Jeff's sake. And for all of ours.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/05/03-1
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. There are no words....k&r
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. I read this post with a heavy heart.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. k/r. Thanks for posting, Echo.
We should never forget. :cry:
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Morning Dew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm not an easy cry
but I can still cry over Kent State.

40 years, wow, I was 12 then.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. I remember Kent State like it was yesterday. My sister had just graduated from there. I was at Ohio
State.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. Another DU thread from last week:
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
64. Link for anyone who is unfamiliar with the details of that awful day...
story today on NPR stations:

<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126423778>

thanks, echo, for a jarring reminder of a distant but vivid memory.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Its hard to realize that its been so long now that many don't even know.....
Yet for us mothers, it is all so close.
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #68
84. Yes, I sound like Methuselah to young folks when Kent State is discussed. I only hope
as we pass on that some "correct" versions of the history of the turbulent 60's survive- but I'm not too hopeful.

Perhaps our minds get fuzzy as we age to help soften the sharp pain of memory of events such as that one.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. "They" say that even short memory of a huge event is somehow distorted.
Since all I have is my own memory, I can't quibble.

But, I will say this.... rather than being "fuzzy" there are things such as this that are as clear to me as if they had happened yesterday.

I think the problem in this one is that today's youth have no connection to the sense of urgency we felt about that war. So, protesting as we did doesn't resonate with them. The affluent youth of today see war as something distant and removed. They aren't in danger of being drug into it, and it isn't confronting them nightly on the teevee.

I wish a universal service was required. That is the only thing that will bring it home to them.
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. You are right. The draft and the (only three!) network news of war did make a difference
in anti-war protests. Every young person -with the exception of the Dick Cheney deferment types- had to deal with the possibility of conscription. The was little chance of complacency on the issue during THAT war!

We should probably bring back mandatory service (with no deferments for Congresspersons' kids!) AND introduce compulsory voting requirements.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #84
91. "They" say that even short memory of a huge event is somehow distorted.
Since all I have is my own memory, I can't quibble.

But, I will say this.... rather than being "fuzzy" there are things such as this that are as clear to me as if they had happened yesterday.

I think the problem in this one is that today's youth have no connection to the sense of urgency we felt about that war. So, protesting as we did doesn't resonate with them. The affluent youth of today see war as something distant and removed. They aren't in danger of being drug into it, and it isn't confronting them nightly on the teevee.

I wish a universal service was required. That is the only thing that will bring it home to them.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. K&R: "let us lower the volume and be civil toward one another"
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. k&r....
as a parent.....
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. Recommended
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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. Wow.............
:kick:
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. heartbreaking
Americans are very talented at learning nothing from history.
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. How true
Echo, my heart goes out to you. I don't know how people like you and Cindy Sheehan maintain any semblance of sanity after your sacrifices on the altar of greed.

I'm lucky that all I got was a busted eye brow from my Viet Nam protesting days. The similarities between then and now are all too striking. New wars, but the same old players and fools that unwittingly support them. Nam was a war for profit just like Iraq and Afghanistan. The drumbeat for war with Iraq is resonating loud and clear. Had Mc Cain won the election, I'm sure we'd be there already, since we're in the neighborhood. Some "News outlets" are reporting that Al Queda in Pakistan is claiming responsibility for the attempt in NY Saturday and there are plenty of fools that believe them. Same game, just new boogie men.

The 2010 elections will make or break this country. Anyone in congress, regardless of the letter behind their name must go if they vote to continue funding illegal and immoral wars.

It's up to us.

Thanks for your post Echo. Stay strong :grouphug:
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #39
74. "The drumbeat for war with Iraq"...
Very sad typo. :(
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Loki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. We lost too many to that ugly, horrible war,
but never did I think that our government would turn it's guns on it's own people. I will always remember this, always.
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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Waco and Ruby Ridge come to mind.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Not even close to the same thing.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. False equivalency comes to mind
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. So you're saying this woman's son...
is a child molesting cop killer who was resting lawful arrest?
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. I was living in Detroit at the time. Soon after the murders, four Kent State
students sought shelter in our apartment. They were terrified that the guard was toing to continue killing students. One was a professor, not a student. One of the murder victims was standing next to him at the time of his death.


It was found that 7 of the 11 shot were shot in the side or the back. That doesn't sound like the guard was under attack. The nearest victim was 90 yards away from the armed soldiers. I got that info from the James Michener book:

"Kent State: What Happened and Why"
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Morning Dew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
15. Remembering the wounded
Wounded (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

Joseph Lewis Jr. 71 ft (22 m); hit twice in the right abdomen and left lower leg
John R. Cleary 110 ft (34 m); upper left chest wound
Thomas Mark Grace 225 ft (69 m); struck in left ankle
Alan Michael Canfora 225 ft (69 m); hit in his right wrist
Dean R. Kahler 300 ft (91 m); back wound fracturing the vertebrae - permanently paralyzed from the chest down
Douglas Alan Wrentmore 329 ft (100 m); hit in his right knee
James Dennis Russell 375 ft (114 m); hit in his right thigh from a bullet and in the right forehead by birdshot - both wounds minor (died 2007)
Robert Follis Stamps 495 ft (151 m); hit in his right buttock (died June 11, 2008)
Donald Scott MacKenzie 750 ft (230 m); neck wound

Killed (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

Jeffrey Glenn Miller; 20, 265 ft (81 m) shot through the mouth - killed instantly
Allison B. Krause; 19, 343 ft (105 m) fatal left chest wound - died later that day
William Knox Schroeder; 19, 382 ft (116 m) fatal chest wound - died almost an hour later in hospital while waiting for surgery
Sandra Lee Scheuer; 20, 390 ft (120 m) fatal neck wound - died a few minutes later from loss of blood

A recent news piece on Dean Kahler:
http://www.ohio.com/news/92610749.html
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
56. Thank you for this
Too often the dead and wounded are relegated to mere statistics. You have brought the human aspect to the fore, and have made their pain and loss real for all to see.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
59. Photos showed the Guard were using WW2 era M1 rifles. These weapons will drop an
elephant at 300 paces. I know this because I own one.

Firing one of these off puts any living thing within a two mile radius at risk.

If they were going to march into a confrontation with unarmed fellow Americans, they should have carried firepower that was more controllable and less likely to result in collateral damage.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. That terrible, dark day---

Rec.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. K&R
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
18. As horrifying today as it was 40 years ago. . . n/t
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nannah Donating Member (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. my mother saw the 1st news footage of the shootings
Edited on Mon May-03-10 11:31 AM by nannah
she said the national guard lowered their rifles and fired directly into the students. she said she never saw the same footage again, although she looked for it as it was so stunning to see the riflemen shooting directly at the students.

i was an anti war protester in boston during those years. my heart goes out to you for the terrible price your son Jeff, you, and your family paid for our nation's leaders greed and lust for power.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
20. Wow
:cry:
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
21. We need to stop the war
So our children can live in peace
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
22. They were definitely murdered. It was revenge for being outfoxed by students.
I met I. F. Stone's grand daughter when I went to college... She didn't think anybody would have read him, but she was wrong.

The Killings at Kent State : How Murder Went Unpunished (Paperback)
~ Isidor F. Stone (Author)
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. We Are Far Too Civil While Our Civil Liberties Are Taken From Us
An abuse of power cannot be answered by non-resistance. It must be countered.
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archiemo Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
25. This is heartbreaking. I'm so sorry for your loss.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
45. FYI, I don't think the OP is Jeffrey Miller's mother, but just posted the piece for us.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. kick nt
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
27. Bump
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. Commemoration pictures
I took these pictures 9 years ago. I still have the T-shirt I got that day, with a "Bulls Eye" on it.

31st Anniversary Commemoration pictures
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Thank you
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
29. K&R. Wow. Heartbreaking. We should never forget these lives cut short...
;(
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
32. K&R
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. Government actions at Kent State and Jackson State taught the anti-war movement what they
were really up against.

And successfully started the elimination of most political action on campuses.

What is disappointing is the number of so-called libs and Dems who supported (and still do) the murders of these students.
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freebrew Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. If they support this madness,
they're most likely NOT real libs OR Dems.
This was the turning point in the war protests.
This action(murder) by the Nat'l Guard, hastened the end.
Contrary to the post above, I saw campus political activity gain strength.
More folks got involved. Even artists that were neutral prior to Kent State got active.
This was one of the blackest days in our history.

To the OP, I am so very sorry this happened. I cannot imagine what I would do if one of mine were murdered in such fashion.

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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. This was one of the first acts designed to take away our freedoms.
Protesters were becoming too powerful & influencing public opinion. THEY HAD TO BE SQUELCHED! I was 14 when this happened & it was a pivotal point in my maturity. I realized then that my govt. was afraid of its citizens & would do ANYTHING to "keep them in line". When the same regime-Act II came into power, they proceeded to decimate most of our remaining freedoms via The "Patriot" Act.

We must stay vigilant against these forces of excessive control of the populous.

I pay homage to those who lost their lives that fateful day & their families. Innocent lambs.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Absolutely. Now consider all of the new various crowd control 'toys' of the MIC ...
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
36. you have my heart felt condolences and I wish I could have met your son.
He has a very nice mother.

Peace
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
37. I lived in NYC at the time. Mayor John Lindsay lowered city flags to half-mast in
honor of the 4 killed at Kent State. There were practically riots by mostly construction workers over that action. A whole bunch of family members, including myself, had marched in antiwar marches around that time. One of my cousins ended up in one in which construction workers attacked the marchers -- she saw a young woman in front of her get her arm broken.

Such powerful reminder from Elaine Holstein. She's right -- I think the violence and potential for violence today is far greater than it was 40 years ago. I'm so glad for this reminder -- I'll be thinking about them tonight and tomorrow and beyond as I think of being just young adults living what would end up being their last nights, their last day and all of the horrible days afterward suffered by so many who loved them and so many intimately affected by their deaths. Just plain tragic.


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Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
40. K & R One of America's saddest days...
I'm old enough to remember, but not to old to cry over it again.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
41. So important to remember and learn from that terrible day.
I was 16 when it happened.

A year later I met some of the wounded survivors at the May Day demonstrations in WDC.

They had great spirits...

Stop the killing now.
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Just seeing scenes from that day of the Kent State massacre brings tears to my eyes...
All the innocent young people who were murdered. Some where just going to class and they were murdered anyway. Like the OP said, some people believed they all deserved their fate. Those people who condemned anyone against their beloved war were conservatives. All of the war hawks then turned out to be neocons and right wing extremists. The Bush Regime was littered with chickenhawk cowards who all love war as long as other people are dying. Crystal, Bush, Cheney, OReilly, Limbaugh and on and on and on, all avoided going to Vietnam. They are all cowards.

Note: I have challenged Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh & OReilly to on air debates hundreds of times, but each request is ignored. Even though they would have all the advantages they still are terrified to debate this lone veteran. They would be surrounded by staff feeding them information. They would be in the friendly confines of their dark, secret studio. They would have security all around them. And they would have decades of experience behind the microphone, but even so, they are absolutely terrified to debate me. But the reason is obvious. They never allow anyone to voice their opinions on their shows. Anyone who even begins to make a point they are cut off, they are yelled at, or the cowardly host just disconnects them, only to savagely attack them after they are off the air and can no longer defend themselves. BTW, just like Diogenes trying to find an honest man in ancient Athens, I have been searching for one (non-felon) right wing radio host or talking head on Fox News who served in the military and have yet to find even one. Does anyone know of a right winger in the media who actually served? And remember, I said "non-felon".
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #43
76. +1
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abq e streeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
44. I was a college student then--I had pretty much assumed they'd start killing us
if we became enough of a threat and that they'd get away with it and that many Americans would be 100% behind the murder of their fellow Americans' children. It has saddened me every day of my life to have been right.
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webDude Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
46. My prayers are with you.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
47. Devastating
:cry:
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. kick
:kick:
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
49. My boyfriend at the time was a friend of Jeff's
On May 5th, we hitchhiked to Washington DC for massive anti-war demonstration. Almost every college in the US was shut down the following week. Kent State was a turning point for my generation. It seemed like there were only two choices left: get violent or lay low.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. yet you continued to protest
You and your friend had the spines of steel that we need now.
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Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
50. I lost it...
What a horrible tragedy ! :cry:
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
52. I was in high school at the time. There was of course
instant reaction against the shootings. My house became "strike central" as students from all over Westchester County planed a walkout from school and rally on May 8th. The shock was deepened when a few days later the shootings at Jackson State got much less media attention. Many of my black friends of that time where made more bitter by what they saw as yet another clear example of racism by the news media. We were all further radicalized by those terrible years 1967-72.
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secondwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
53. This is by far the most moving DU post I have ever read. My heart cries out for you and your family
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
54. k&r
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
55. K&R!
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
57. Ohio
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #57
70. "4 Dead in Ohio, what if you knew her and found her dead on the ground?"
"How can you run when you know..
4 Dead in Ohio!"

Neal Young
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
58. What a horrible event in our history
It boggles the mind. And here we are, forty years later, in two more senseless wars. Will we ever learn?
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Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
60. I remember that day...and this war mongering must end!
I have hated and protested the war machine for money for most of my life. As A1 in the Vietnam draft (almost Jeff's age), I personally knew people at Kent State, but also knew so many more who died or were hurt in insane wars for profit and power.

I really believe that the "enemy" who was killed, from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq also left many who cried for them. You express perfectly an undercurrent for my life that is almost impossible to explain to the young college students that I teach today.

Your loss is the world's loss, and I know that Jeff was absolutely right, "Where does it end?"

:cry:
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
61. K&R nt
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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
62. On that day, an errant wind briefly lifted the curtain and revealed the blind monster
who runs the machinery.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
63. Very moving

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
65. there are no words...................
as the mother of a son.....:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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James48 Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
66. There are no winners.
As a 21-year military veteran, and former member of the National Guard, I can tell you that event changed history in this nation in many, many ways. I was only ten years old when Kent State happened- but it affected my life and my military career as well.

Not only was Kent State a tragedy for the students killed and wounded, but also a tragedy for the members of the military, who found themselves questioning what on earth was going on. Remember, those who served that day in uniform were also scared, young kids, who did what they had been trained to do at the time. Formal training on how to handle civil unrest was not a part of the normal training of the National Guard at the time.

The lesson learned included a fundamental rethinking within the military of how to handle civil unrest. The best thinkers within the services rewrote the book, and began training National Guard military members during entry to duty in how to deal with civil unrest in a much more humane and conscientious way. The Kent State tragedy was a gut-wrenching experience for all military members. I invite you here to read the comments from the other side of that day.

http://www.spectacle.org/996/kentr.html

Yes- it was a day that changed the lives of those killed and wounded. And changed a lot of other things as well.

I will always remember.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
67. You have touched my heart profoundly
There is no room for hate when one's heart is broken because of the love in it.

I didn't lose a son, but I lost a brother. I know of the heart breaking over a loss that is inconceivable to a younger sibling. I know how my mother's heart never recovered from the loss of a child, even after almost 40 years.
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. K & R
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haydukelives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
71. I will always remember Kent State
May 4 is my birthday
I was 15
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susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
72. This just breaks my heart. n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
73. I am sorry Echo in Light.
:hug:
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #73
86. Hi there...I sourced the article. It's not a personal accounting. Thanks, though
Edited on Tue May-04-10 10:10 AM by Echo In Light
:toast:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. I'm still sorry.
:toast:
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
75. .
:cry:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
77. K&R
It was a terrible loss.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
78. kick and recommend
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DesertDiamond Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
79. Thank you for your beautiful plea for peace. I promise to keep fighting for it.
I feel your grief. Thank you for sharing.
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lillypaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
80. With horror I watched
on TV, our government shoot down our children. I will never forget or forgive.
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Paper Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
81. I am old enough to remember that horrible day.
Even today, I remember the young girl leaning over the body of one of her schoolmates, hands raised. It brings back horrible memories of that war and all the war did to the American people.

Your son was an unintended consequence of another useless, illegal war.

I hope you realize that he and the other victims of this great injustice will always he heros to those of us who lived through Vietnam.

Useless, horrible death, useless, horrible war. At the time, I was not much older than your son.
Remember:

Hey, Hey, LBJ. How many kids did you kill today?

Sad we have never learned. The same thing is happening today. Different place, different time, same horror.

Your good memories of your son must be of some comfort to you. The pain will never go away.
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Number9Dream Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
82. My sympathy, Ms. Holstein - I remember the tragedy vividly
I remember how the killings at Kent State pushed a large number of my high school classmates, who were politically middle-of-the-road, much further toward the anti-war, anti-establishment end of the spectrum.

Parents of college students were upset and angry to think that their children could be shot dead walking across campus.

In the days following May 4th, there were many demonstrations at colleges and even high schools condemning the shootings at Kent State.

As with any history, by remembering this senseless tragedy, hopefully, we can prevent it from happening again.

http://www.thrasherswheat.org/fot/ohio.htm
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #82
85. Very good link. Thanks, Number 9!
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. Thanks for that
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MsFlorida Donating Member (370 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
83. I lived there, just a few short miles away
Will never, ever forget that dark dark day. Still just as clear.

Visited a few years ago, the bullet holes are still there -- in the metal sculpture, corner of the building.....

And still, people do not learn.

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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
87. Thank you so much for sharing
This was the day the music died.
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