Illegals probably pay HIGHER TAXES than we do...

[AnArmyVeteran]

First off, I believe our borders should be closed and I thought it was a crime when Bush sent our soldiers half way around the world to fight an unnecessary war based on lies, when Bush should have ordered our troops to our borders. The purpose of our military is to protect the US from any invasion, but Bush let 12 million illegal aliens storm into our country after the 9/11 attacks. Having said this I also have to correct a big misconception people have about illegals and taxes. While I am not a proponent of having people in the US illegally, I do have to admit they pay taxes, lots of them.

Illegals pay sales taxes. If they live in apartments illegals pay property taxes (you get a tax write off, they don't). When they buy gasoline they pay taxes. They pay 'taxes when they buy license plates for their cars. And when they buy any product they pay for taxes paid for by manufacturers, suppliers, wholesalers, and on and on. They pay tax, upon tax, upon tax.

They also pay for fishing and hunting licenses (taxes). They pay to go to national or state parks (taxes). They pay to go to sporting events (taxes). Even when they buy food they pay taxes that were imposed on the company during the production of the food. And any time an illegal buys any product their money is used to pay the workers who produce the product, and by helping to pay their salaries illegals are also helping to pay their taxes. Ironic isn't it?

They toil 14 hours a day picking the fruit and vegetables you eat. They mow your lawns. They take care of your kids. They clean your houses. They work on your houses. And when they work they almost always work for less, meaning they are essentially being 'taxed' because for doing the same job as a legal resident. Because they earn a smaller salary it the equivalent to an income 'tax' imposed by all the people who hire them, and that includes millions of American families who use their services. And their 'income tax' is much higher than what we pay. While their official 'income tax' paid directly to the government is between none and some because they are not part of the system, their resulting 'income tax' is in the form of lower salaries, so essentially they are paying their 'income taxes' directly to their employers, which is you. So instead of getting benefits of federal tax dollars returning to you, if they ever do, you are getting an instant tax break by not having to pay employer taxes and you are paying someone at a 50% rate.

Everyone who exchanges money in our country pays taxes. And I bet because of the difference they make compared to legal residents, the income differential is probably at least 50%. Women still haven't caught up to men. They are still being paid at the most 90 cents on the dollar. But compare that to the paltry 50 cents on a dollar illegals make. In addition to paying all the different taxes they also serve in the military and they come home in flag draped coffins.

Lastly, I remember when Reaganomics began. Because of the loss of tax revenue from the federal government almost every state had budget shortfalls. The rich received huge tax breaks but that left huge holes in state budgets. So what did they do? States around the country all raised their sales taxes, fees and licenses. They raised every conceivable fee they could to make up for the shortfall caused by trickle-down economics. And I still remember my Dad complaining about having his car license plate cost go from $15 to $60 in one year. To a wealthy person that $45 difference means nothing. But to the poor or someone on a fixed income it means doing without a meal, a payment or doing without. And it also means that the poor and middle class had to pay a larger percentage of their income in taxes than the rich did. And this analogy is pertinent to impoverished illegals who pay a much higher tax rate than even the richest people in the country. If you have any wrath against injustice, I advise you directing it toward the rich and to those who pass laws continually rewarding the rich and burying the poor in more and more debt.

The poor DO pay taxes. So do illegal aliens...

Note: I had a right wing, christian extremist conservative write me a letter saying the poor pay no taxes. He proved himself to be totally unaware of the tax structure in our country and I reminded him of all the taxes the poor and even illegal aliens pay. I never heard back from him. I assume he either 'got it', or it short circuited his brain because what I taught him was different than what he hears on conservative right wing radio and Fox News.

[Obamanaut]

1. Often when people say "... (insert group here) pay no taxes..." they

are referring to income tax. Sales taxes and most of the other common taxes are so much a part of our every day existance they are forgotten when the "...pays no taxes..." enters the conversation.

[AnArmyVeteran]

14. Have you noticed how the right wing needs to have some evil force to blame?

Right wingers were led like pigs to a slaughterhouse, with rings in their noses to war against Iraq to go after the country's biggest boogieman, Osama Bin Laden. It didn't matter that not one Iraqi was one of the 9/11 terrorists, Bin Laden had nothing to do with Iraq or Saddam, there were no Al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq, there were no WMDs in Iraq, and that the United States was never threatened by Iraq.

The latest boogieman is illegal aliens. Right wingers have completely forgotten about Osama Bin Laden. Now they're after anyone who isn't as white as the sheets they wear.

And while right wingers on their latest quest, corporations and hate groups are cashing in by getting them to donate tons of money to fight illegals. And note that right wingers are blaming Obama on the immigration problem, even though Bush & his conservative majority in congress did nothing to stop the invasion of our southern border. After 9/11 and Bush promised to protect the American people he let 12 million additional illegals invade our country. And instead of using our military to protect our borders, which they are Constitutionally mandated to do, Bush sent them half way around the world to fight and die in a country which never threatened us.

Right wingers need a boogieman to exist. If all problems were solved and there was peace and happiness throughout the land they would still create a boogieman so they could play their blame game.

[yewberry]

2. And 2/3 of undocumented workers pay SS, Medicare & income taxes.

Since the SS numbers associated with those payments are often fake, those workers will never see a return on those taxes (except in the form of emergency-room services and K-12).

[Dappleganger]

6. Those costs are nothing to sneeze at, either.

Yes, they do pay taxes but whether or not what they put into the system falls below or exceeds what they take is something I've seen documented on both sides. My take on this is they do pay in significantly but take out more in services. That's to be expected for people in that income bracket, however. They would have MORE ability to pay more taxes into the system if they were given a fast-track to citizenship so they could advance in our society.

[unpossibles]

10. True, but I bet the number who use those services

are far outweighed by those who don't out of fear of being caught.

Add in the fact that their high-hour/low-wage jobs enable you to purchase many things for a fairly low cost, and... well, I have to wonder if in fact the economic impact of illegal immigrants is really much at all, one way or the other.

[Dappleganger]

11. All valid points. nt

[DURHAM D]

7. Thanks for posting.

This is the most commonly ignored fact.

My BIL is a rightwing ass and is always talking about "wetbacks". One day he challenged me, in front of the whole family, and asked what he was supposed to think when he saw a crew of illegals painting or roofing a house?

I told him to stop his car and get out and thank them. Thank them because they are funding SS and Medicare for him. And, they can never get back what they put in. He got pissed, exited the house and slammed the door.

Now, when he brings up "wetbacks" his wife, grown children and their spouses ask him if he has stopped any of them to say "thank you" for his SS check (he took it early because he had once again lost a job because he is an ass) and Medicare coverage.

[Dappleganger]

12. Oh, my!

You're GOOD!

:toast:

[AnArmyVeteran]

13. Good for you Durham D, I love to expose hypocrites & stupid people...

[Edweird]

21. It's very easy to have nothing or next to nothing withheld.

[yewberry]

22. Not if you're trying to avoid drawing attention to yourself.

[Edweird]

31. Really? When's the last time someone challenged you on your W-4?

[mrcheerful]

3. Those darn free loading illegals, how dare they come into this country through the back door and

force all those poor innocent employers to give them jobs. :sarcasm: You know it is really stupidity at it's best that the nit wits act like the cause of the problem lies on the back of the illegal person instead of the fat cats that use illegals to increase their profits. You are right about how many taxes illegals pay that the nit wits yelling they pay no taxes refuse to look at.

[AnArmyVeteran]

23. You're right Mrcheerful, we need to oppress the poor MORE!

[liberal N proud]

4. Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions

STOCKTON, Calif. - Since illegally crossing the Mexican border into the United States six years ago, Ángel Martínez has done backbreaking work, harvesting asparagus, pruning grapevines and picking the ripe fruit. More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.

Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez - who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana - contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?ex=1270353600&en=78c87ac4641dc383&ei=5090&partner=kmarx


This may be why nothing is seriously being done about the situation on the federal level.

[AnArmyVeteran]

5. Thanks LiberalNProud, good information about SS taxes....

I forgot to put the social security (tax) in my OP. But you are absolutely right. And another thing: The illegals who make it to the US have to go through a physically demanding trek through some of the harshest environments on earth. So they have to be in very good health to make it. Because of their good health they are not burdening our country with huge healthcare costs. If 80 and 90 year old illegals were entering the country I'm sure they would take more than they put into our system, but how many 80 and 90 year olds are rounded up by immigration officers? I'm willing to bet the answer is zero.

In your example, Mr. Martinez paid $2,000 in SS (tax), or a huge part of his income. But compare him to a millionaire or a billionaire. The percentage of taxes a rich person pays is way below what a poor person pays. They are living off of the backs of the poor and middle class. I believe the SS tax should not be capped. I don't care if a billionaire doesn't get back what he puts into the system. He made his money from being in this country and he should pay at least the same percentage of his income on SS taxes as a poor person does. Just think of all that extra money going into the SS program if we eliminated the SS cap?

[DURHAM D]

9. In addition - Mr. Martinez's employer is matching the deposits with the federal government. nt

[Lars39]

8. Undocumented Immigrants Myths and Reality:

http://www.urban.org/publications/900898.html

[AnArmyVeteran]

15. Thanks for that link. Very interesting...

[MajorChode]

16. There's a reason why the portly drug addict doesn't want you consider THOSE taxes

He only wants people to consider FEDERAL taxes on wages only (not stocks or other equity income), and even then only the portion of federal taxes that doesn't include FICA.

[Luminous Animal]

17. People are not illegals. They are human beings.

People who jaywalk are not illegals. People who exceed the speed limit are not illegals. People who smoke pot are not illegals. Please quit characterizing human beings with a word that, not only dehumanizes them, but isn't even grammatically correct.

[AnArmyVeteran]

18. Well put Luminous Animal... I like they way you said that...

Although I thought Bush was an illegal president.

[ecstatic]

19. Don't you have to provide a Social security number to be on payroll?

So if a worker is not a legal citizen and on payroll, whose social security number is being used?

[Berserker]

20. YES what about

social security numbers. You make too much sense.
As soon as I see the Illegals working in the UAW union I will be happy.
After all they are here to just make a better way of life just like all of us. The unions need to give these poor illegals jobs.
UNION JOBS FOR ILLEGALS NOW. Say it loud and proud. I am all for unions FUCK the laws.

[EFerrari]

24. Yes, that's right. They usually buy a social security number

often from someone who is deceased and they pay into it knowing they will never be able to claim the benefits.

What a deal!

[AnArmyVeteran]

25. Fakes are easy to make...

[EFerrari]

26. Either way, the claim can't be put in.

Those idiot teabaggers on Social Security are being funded by undocumented workers. You're welcome, @ssholes.

[ecstatic]

27. Of course, if the number isn't from a deceased person

then the person whose identity was stolen could find him or herself facing jail time for back taxes.

Don't get me wrong, I truly empathize with those seeking a better life. I am completely against the new Arizona law. But sugarcoating some of the problems associated with illegal immigration such as identity theft, worker exploitation and/or making it seem like the taxes paid aren't canceled out by the services used (schools, emergency room care, etc.) isn't the answer either. Those in Washington need to get serious and have an HONEST discussion and find some real, fair solutions.

[EFerrari]

28. No identity thief PUTS money in your account.

And as the OP shows, these workers pay much more into taxes than they ever get back.

There is no economic argument against a group of workers that adds between 30-36 BILLION dollars to the economy. They aren't the problem.

The problem is our foreign policy that drives them north.

[ecstatic]

29. Not to belabor the issue--because, as I said, I want a compassionate solution that helps everyone

But if someone used my SSN, the IRS would view me as being in a much higher income bracket to be taxed at a much higher rate and I would owe additional taxes.

[EFerrari]

30. If the IRS found an anomaly, you could easily prove

that the income was not yours by referring them to your records of employment and residence.

But that's why these people pay big money -- to get a number that will allow them to pay in without being detected.

These people get reamed coming and going and on top of that, they get a hate sundae.