A plea to dog owners

[a la izquierda]

Hi all. Some of you might know that my husband works with dogs, and that he was recently laid off. Anyway, that's sort of secondary, but it's important to the story, because he is very good at what he does and is well-respected in the area. Anyway, we're responsible dog owners: our dogs have all shots on time, are taken to their vet when ill, received obedience training and are not left unsupervised in the yard. We have a fenced yard.

One of our dogs is a hunting breed. He is a Hungarian Viszla, a breed not known to be vicious, though Viszla's do have high prey drives. He is about 60 pounds, a small Viszla, and probably a mix. Our second dog is a Chihuahua/Rat Terrier mix, weighing about 15 pounds. Our third dog is an ancient English bulldog/Boxer mix. He does not factor in. Viszla and Chihuahua play rough, as if both dogs are the same size (meaning, as if the Chihuahua is a much bigger dog).
Saturday, our dogs were in the yard. Viszla has a harness attached to a tie-out, as he has jumped fences in the past to chase squirrels. I stepped into my garage to get a garden trowel and when I turned around, my Viszla had spied a stray cat. Before I could get to him to hold his collar, he lunged, charged, broke his harness and jumped the fence. He chased the cat until he lost it, and upon loosing the cat, he happened upon a tiny Chihuahua and his owner, an elderly woman.

What occurred next is the stuff of nightmares. Viszlas, as hunters, grab by the hind legs. He grabbed the tiny guy and shook him, ripping him open and, as I was to discover, breaking the dogs hip. I grabbed my dog, got him home, scooped up the Chihuahua and took him and his owner, who I do not know, to the Emergency Vet. I called my husband, very hysterical, who immediately returned from his trip.

The dog has survived thus far, but needs pelvic surgery. My vet can do it, so long as the spine isn't damaged. The owner of the Chihuahua realizes this is a tragic accident. My dog has a prey drive, but has never done anything like this before-evidenced by the fact that we, too, have a Chihuahua in our house. The lady with the city animal control said that sometimes these things just happen and there's no reason why. It doesn't make the dog bad. It doesn't make us bad people.

I am sick with grief over this, because of the poor dog and because of the trauma to his owner (mental, not physical). We must become better dog owners, which of course we will do, to prevent this from happening. Our dog will now go to behavior curbing classes. We will spend thousands, borrowed from friends and family, to ensure the dog gets the best care necessary.

Take care of your pups. And know that not all dog attacks are the result of bad dog parenting or bad dogs.

[EFerrari]

1. You sound like you're still in shock.

[a la izquierda]

8. I have slept 5 hours in 48

and eaten nearly nothing since Saturday afternoon. I'm mentally shattered. I feel like *the* worst person in the universe. If the dog dies, it is my dog's fault, and that is a horrible feeling.:cry:

[EFerrari]

9. I know.

Try to take care of yourself.

[secondwind]

2. wow, I am so sorry you have to go through all of this. I hope the little dog makes it!

[smokey nj]

3. I'm so sorry you're going throught this.

:hug: :hug:
I hope the chihuahua will be ok.

[Shell Beau]

4. Oh no! I really hope the little guy will be ok.

[Dappleganger]

5. I'm so sorry this happened.

Hopefully things will turn out ok. Sometimes it's easy to forget they are animals with teeth.

[sui generis]

6. yes my sweet staffordshire who adores the kitties and his own chihuahua

pal, killed a neighborhood stray chihuahua that dug under the privacy fence into the back yard a few months ago.

This is a dog that we take to the Easter pooch parade who walks next to strange cats, dogs of all sizes, and this year befriended a couple of ferrets on leashes who thought they were dogs . . .

There is no explaining it. I had a female viszla mutt mix - they are hunting dogs. Even when she was a very very elderly lady she would go out to the woodpile on the other end of the property and put her paw on whatever logs were hiding rats and look up her long pointy nose waiting for me to move it so she could chase the rats. On the other hand, old girl would lay next to her water bowl on the back deck and watch squirrels come within a foot of her head to drink out of the bowl and never bother them.

Who can say what goes through their heads.

[EFerrari]

10. My dog when outdoors chases the same cats she defers to indoors.

[hedgehog]

45. Our dogs sleep on our bed with our cats. In fact, the one cat grooms the one dog.

But, if I'm out back walking them and they spot one of the cats, I really have to set my heels to keep them from chasing after her! I don't know if it's different rules outdoors or if all they see is some small animal.

[a la izquierda]

11. ugh, that's horrible about the chihuahua...

:(
viszla's are funny dogs, aren't they? draper truly likes other dogs. squirrels and cats, not so much.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. I'm sorry this happened. I know what you mean. A month ago, a young couple pulled into my very long

driveway and got out of the car when I was home at noon for lunch and to let my dogs out. I have 2 American Eskimos (from an Ohio Rescue group). I let them have full run of my fenced 3/4 acre yard. One is noisy and can jump straight up, almost to the top of the 4 foot high fence and the other is too heavy to jump at all.

Well, it seems that the night before, this couple had parked on a different street and was walking along the front of my property on the sidewalk (have 193 feet of frontage). Hank was making noise and jumping up and down and Sugar was running down our side of the fence. The young woman decided to stick her hand through the fence to pet them and Sugar nipped her. I think because he was excited. I was surprised because Hank is the roughneck and both dogs play with my 4 year old granddaughter. The couple said they weren't mad and the young lady admitted it was a stupid thing to do. Really it looked more like he had just raked his teeth down two of her fingers. They were checking on his rabies shot (which he had just gotten renewed).

Even when our dogs are confined to their property, sometimes things happen because they're animals.

[Shell Beau]

13. People should not go sticking their hands through a fence

that holds dogs they don't know. Not a smart move on their part.

[EFerrari]

18. It seems to be an instinct as well.

When I was about 10 and in Yosemite with my family, two squirrels were getting rough with each other and I stuck my hand out. Have no idea what I thought I was doing, not even a memory of deciding to put my hand between two sets of teeths, but there it was. lol

[Shell Beau]

22. Oh I did it as a kid too. I got bitten by a parrot and a dog.

And even now I think all dogs will love me, lol! I am much more cautious though. My dog gets so excited sometimes that in between her licks is a little nip. But it hurts.

[Hepburn]

12. I understand...

...one never knows what might set off a dog which has always been a gentle creature.

I have always had Scotties and, yes, they can be mean and VERY vicious. Especially in defense of their homes. IMO, there is NOTHING meaner than a mean Scottie. Check out the teeth on a Scottish Terrier some time ~~ makes a pitbull's mouth look almost harmless.

Sorry this happened with your dog and the dog that was injured. I think, tho, you need to stop beating up on yourself. It just happened...and, no, there was nothing you could have done to prevent it.

:hug:

[truedelphi]

14. The Prey respoonse is intrinsic to animals

And even our most sedentary cat will go berserk if a squirrel is out in the yard. (Not that he can catch it.)

My heart goes out to you and your spouse and to the owner of the injured dog.(Doggie too.)

Hope everything ends up okay.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

15. Hugs to you and to the Chihuahua's person.

Sometimes accidents happen. Even though I have a fenced in yard, I put my 2 peke mixes (rescues) on tie outs attached to their harnesses if I'm not watching them in the yard. One day, I saw Buster at the other end of the yard. Apparently, he had seen a cat and gave chase and broke the metal tieout rope.

I heard on Dogtalk the other morning that CareCredit has expanded to vet offices. I think she said that the vet pays the interest, not the client. Anyway, it may be of help to you or to someone else

http://www.carecredit.com/vetmed/

[G_j]

16. Rec

(yes, I saw those unrecs, but, nevermind..)


Very good advice!

I'm so sorry about what happened.

[mod mom]

17. I always worried that my german short haired pointer/border collie who continually kills squirrels

would get mixed up over a small dog/squirrel.

So very sorry to hear about your horrible incident, a la izquierda. :(

[a la izquierda]

19. Thanks for all your caring responses.

I think I'm going to try and take another nap. I'm exhausted. The Chihuahua's owner is taking this better than I am. I think her 82 years of experience helps. She's a funny, tough lady. We're very fortunate that she's being so good about this.

I cried in front of about half of my students today. They looked stunned.

[tridim]

20. Just because the park is "leashless" doesn't mean your vicious dog should be let loose.

I had to defend my dog (and likely myself) against a raging, leashless German Shepherd once. I didn't even get an apology afterwords.

To this day I fear leashless parks and my dog fears any dog that looks like a German Shepherd, all because of one clueless dog owner.

[leftyladyfrommo]

55. I would never take a dog to a dog park.

It's too dangerous. Not only is there danger from dog attacks - which happen all of the time in those places. But the ground in those places is just filthy. You are just asking for a sick dog.

[shireen]

21. do you need help with vet bills?

PM your paypal address. Or vet's phone number with name of dog being treated so i can call in with my credit card #. I can't afford much but glad to chip in a few bucks towards the dog's rehab. My heart goes out to you and all those affected. And I'm hoping that your husband will be re-employed soon.

[elehhhhna]

23. Your homeowners insurance will pay the neighbor's vet bills --

generally without your even paying a deductable (general liability coverage, iirc.) File a claim.

And sorry the Visla was acting so, well, like a dog. Dogs do this. Vizlas are a gorgeous breed.

Be strong.

[Tesha]

33. I wouldn't casually take elehhhhna's advice...

...because I think you'll next find your homeowner's insurance
cancelled, seeing as how you own a dog that is 1) demonstrably
vicious and 2) has then already cost the insurance company big
bucks.

Alternatively, they will raise your rates to the sky to cover the
inevitable next claim.

Tesha

[elehhhhna]

37. um, probably not. It's a one-off.

Rate may rise imperceptably, and will be less than days of vet care & emergency surgery. Now, file a second dog claim & you've got a problem.

[AnArmyVeteran]

24. I wish you and the small dog well, as well as its elderly owner...

I know this doesn't relate to your situation as you seem to be a responsible pet owner. But several years ago I went with a friend to one of his friend's house. That guy had three pit bulls and he openly bragged about ordering them to attack any animal he saw in the neighborhood. If he saw a cat just laying down in a front yard he would order his dogs to attack it and kill it. Pit Bulls have that built in predator instinct too and if you combine a pit bull with an owner with the same sized brain as the dog, you get violence. I felt sorry for all the animals in the neighborhood who were essentially murdered by this dog owner.

I know this isn't true for some people, but I have seen pit bull owners who get them to make them feel more like a man, just the way some guys (or women) get guns to be more macho.

Just a couple of years ago, my neighbor who also had a pit bull was walking their dog but when the dog pulled on its leash pulling its master with it so it could attack my cat which was in my courtyard. The courtyard at my house is almost like being inside and my cat, called OJ because of its orange and white colors, liked to just lay there next to my pond. But the pit bull pulled its owner and even while on the leash grabbed my cat and shook it back and forth until we were able to pry it loose from its death grip.

I immediately brought our cat to an emergency vet 15 miles away. He had a lot of external blood and some internal bleeding from the savage attack. While being x-rayed, we could see a pellet from a pellet gun within a fraction of an inch from OJ's spine. Some goddamned goon, one of my neighbors shot him and if the pellet had severed my cat's spine it would have been either killed or crippled. How can people be so cruel and hateful? BTW, the neighbors never reimbursed us for medical expenses due to the attack and eventually they moved. Frankly, we didn't report it right away because this neighbor had a violent streak and lots of guns. Yes, he was a right wing conservative too.

There are so many mean, hateful people in this world. To order one's dog to attack another person's pet should be an offense that puts the dog owner in prison for ten years or more. It tears me up to think of that young woman who lived in San Francisco who was killed by two large dogs (pit bulls?) as she was walking toward her apartment with groceries in her arms. Her life was ended because of totally irresponsible dog owners.

I know you are a responsible dog owner. I can tell by your reaction and the way you wrote about this experience. But if your dog has such a strong drive to prey on other animals (or people) why do you keep him? It is endangering other animals and who knows, even the small dog you have is in jeopardy. just the fact that you have to keep your dog in a harness is more than a clue that he is dangerous. What if he broke free and killed a toddler or baby? It only takes a second for a dog to inflict a fatal bite on a small victim. A young child could have just as easily been its victim instead of the Chihuahua. Are you willing to spend time in jail to keep a dog that seems to have an emotional hair trigger?

You sound like a very nice, conscientious person, but to ensure other animals or people don't get maimed or killed, your dog needs to be caged, with metal roof, walls and floor to hold him securely. I don't believe in caging animals, but in this case I do if you are insistent about keeping him. It does sound like you are still in shock, but when you are able to reason though this ordeal a bit clearer I hope you do something other than keeping your dog in a harness.

I wish you the best, and even more I wish that poor little dog the best and that he has a speedy and full recovery. I'm sure the dog and its elderly owner will be traumatized for a long time. I still have flashbacks to that night when our neighbor's pit bull attacked our beloved cat and shook it like a rag doll. And I can only imagine what OJ must have been feeling. Within six months OJ passed away in our bathroom. He just fell over dead. He seemed healthy in every way, but perhaps that dog attack weakened an artery and he had an aneurysm and died.

Anyway, good luck...

[shireen]

30. where do you draw the line?

I'm very sorry to hear about the terrible experience you endured with OJ.

But if your dog has such a strong drive to prey on other animals (or people) why do you keep him?

Many dog breeds and mixed-breeds (mutts) have strong prey drives. Are we going to get rid of them all?

What happened to that chihuahua was a tragedy. This has been a learning experience for the OP, and she shared it with us so we can also be more vigilant. But the odds of such attacks as described by the OP are generally slim. However, it happened to her, and she is taking the appropriate steps to make sure it never happens again (and I don't mean caging the dog).

As long as we choose to live with dogs, we have to accept that attacks will happen. Many are due to careless owners, and the law has ways to address those cases. But this incident is NOT one of them ....

[a la izquierda]

32. Thanks

I couldn't respond to this poster right away...

I'll PM you tomorrow, and thanks for the offer. We're in a holding pattern at the moment. Surgery has to happen tomorrow, if it's to happen at all.
We're very fortunate that the owner is so understanding. She realizes we're absolutely devastated and it will take us a long time to recover from this as well.
Thanks again.

[shireen]

42. considering how you're feeling right now,

I suggest you don't read anymore posts in this thread until you feel emotionally ready to face the harsh comments. Right now, you need to concentrate your energy on your family and the lady's family. Not on how DU'ers are reacting to what happened.

:hug:

[Still Blue in PDX]

35. The dogs that killed the SF woman were Presa Canarios, not pit bulls.

I remember my dad saying "sic 'em" to our German Shepherd to bark at cats who ventured into our yard. Scary to think what would have happened if a cat came in the yard when he was out there. I put that right up there with his use of the "N" word -- sheer ignorance. I loved my dad, but I would like to think that if he were alive today he wouldn't be so damned stupid about some things. At least he was a Democrat! Other than that, we butted heads a lot. But I digress.

I have a Staffordshire Terrier who chases squirrels, but she doesn't seem to try very hard to catch them. Even though she is well socialized and seems to get along fine with other critters and people, I wouldn't take her to a dog park without a leash and one of my sons, though, just because if she did decide to go after something she could do a lot of damage--as could most dogs.

I'm so sorry about OJ.

[AnArmyVeteran]

46. Thanks, I got OJ after a breakup with a girlfriend. He was a nice cat and a good friend...

[wolfgangmo]

71. a legal addendum.

At this point there is verified documented proof that your dog has attacked without provication.

Should your dog escape again and damage either another animal, or worse a child then you will be held responsible because you could not reasonably claim that you had no way to predict it's behavior. At this point you know darn well that it has attacked. In the case of the animal you would only be held responsible for actual damages or the value of the animal.

In the case of a child, should that happen, you, your family, your house, etc. are all in jeapardy. Consider selling your dog to another (good) home.

[amborin]

88. my

thoughts, exactly....

i realize the OP is remorseful and sounds like a very decent, wonderful person

nonetheless, she knew the dog was 'boistrous'; so how did it get out? that's not clear to me....

i'm terrified of some pit bulls in our neighborhood; fortunately, there is no way they can possibly get out of their yards; the owners have double gates

[MrScorpio]

106. The woman in SF was killed by Presa Canarios

I never even heard of the breed until that incident. Apparently, it's in the top ten dangerous breeds o' pooch, according to this site

http://www.pluspets.net/top-10-dangerous-dog-breeds/

[Brickbat]

25. Any dog can do this at any time to any person or animal.

Everyone thinks they've got an exception, but I find it much handier to assume that any dog can bite any person or animal at any time.

ETA: I'm sorry you had to go through this.

[elocs]

26. My first dog was a beagle/Viszla mix, thought he looked mostly beagle.

He was all tan though with a white chest. A powerfully built dog. The flies would get at his beagle-like ears in the summer, biting them and drawing blood and then the mosquitoes got at them. He got heartworm and this was before they commonly tested for it or gave the pills and it killed him.

Good luck and you are to be commended for your responsibility concerning the other dog.

[a la izquierda]

27. Thanks...

I'm wondering how on earth a beagle and a vizsla make a puppy. Whoa. :)

[elocs]

29. I once saw a small dog that had the body of a terrier, but the head of a Lab.

A very strange looking dog.

[Codeine]

41. I bet he was adorable.

I had a little shelter mutt with a dachsund's body and a scottie's head all covered with wiry terrier hair. He was the cutest little guy. :)

[northernlights]

28. I'm so sorry for what you'regoing through

hope the little guy makes it ok.

Training suggestion for others who have dogs with strong prey drives -- this was courtesy of a dog-trainer friend (who is licensed to keep wolves -- usually doesn't, but she did have one cross until a couple years ago that the state had asked her to take on as a rescue).

My newest rescue is part rhodisian ridgeback and has a strong prey drive. The first time he saw my cat, Polly, he grabbed her by the neck and started shaking her. I was able to free her (no injuries, thank goodness).

The second time he saw my Polly, he went for her. Before he knew what happened, I had him on his back, pinned to the ground with my hand firmly around his throat, my face in his, while I growled loudly NO! NEVER! NO! He went into "dry mouth" (nervously smacking lips) and looking away from me. I turned his face to me, he turned his eyes away. I turned his face to me again -- just to make sure he understood I'm the boss -- and he looked away again.

He has never tried to hurt Polly again. In fact, they've become such good friends that she'll get in his face and provoke him if he ignores her too long.

[a la izquierda]

31. We're taking him to a special trainer...

to curb this behavior. I get that it's instinctive, but he shouldn't be looking at the neighborhood strays as prey. He doesn't need to...he gets fed twice a day.

Thanks for this, though. It is a good reminder.

[northernlights]

34. it's not about hunger at all

my little Luna is in danger of being a porker.

It's the same instinct that drives well-fed cats to batting mice around before they kill them. Totally instinctive. Totally not your fault. We don't always know their strength in advance of them breaking tie-outs.

Even though Luna is fine with Polly (and presumably any cats now) that doesn't mean he'd be fine other smaller animals. For that I'd need a pro too. But there is hope....

[leftyladyfrommo]

56. Prey drive isn't hunger. It's motion.

The dogs are responding to motion. And it's instinctive.

Really, just get a really good down on that dog. I would still be careful with opening doors even if the dog is on a good downstay. There is just something about that open space that is the door to freedom. A lot of dogs do that exact thing and then get hit by cars.

[wolfgangmo]

72. (Jaw hits floor)

OMG - someone who understands alpha dog and pack pyschology. Good for you. You humanely let your dog know who was in charge (makes for a happier dog) and what the rules are in your pack.

I've never had problems with dogs because of that. My friend, an otherwise smart dude, has never done this with his horror show of a dog. It jumps on people, doesn't listen, runs away, digs, chews furniture, etc. People who own dogs and don't go to the bother of establishing alpha do dogs a disservice. If anyone of you reading this is one of those people grow a pair and then use them.

[tonysam]

36. If that had been my dog who had been attacked by yours,

I would have demanded your dog be put down. Sorry, but that is the way it is.

The dog can't be trusted. Just think if that had been a child and not a little dog.

[shireen]

39. It's all in how we perceive dogs ....

if the roles were reversed, i have a feeling the OP would not demand that your dog be put down.

No dog can be trusted 100% to not attack; it's a reality that we so often forget because we get lulled into a sense of complacency because they're so sweet and loving towards their pack -- our family (including other pets). I hope you're taking all the appropriate steps to make sure your dog does not attack someone, and if it happens, that the victim is as understanding as the lady with the chihuahua.

Dogs see the world in ways we cannot begin to imagine. If they do something to harm a human or pet, try to learn as much as possible about the circumstances that led to the attack. Every attack event is different. Blanket condemnation of the attacking dog isn't a constructive way to handle the situation.

[Codeine]

38. Had that been my chihuahua I'd have beaten your dog to death.

Failing that I'd have sought a court order demanding it be euthanized immediately.

Nothing personal to you, but there's simply ZERO place for a dog who exhibits that sort of behavior in a civilized society.

I would add that losing control of a dangerous dog in a public place is, pretty much by definition, bad dog ownership/"parenting."

[Naked_Ape]

48. I hate to agree

A coworker had his dog attacked in a similar situation. The owner of the attacking dogs lost his dogs and now faces criminal charges.

[a la izquierda]

50. Well, clearly the city we live in didn't think so

and so I'm happy some of you folks are not experts on this situation.

My dog loves kids. Fact.
He shares his home with a dog that is a quarter of his size. Has never even once exhibited odd behavior toward him. Fact.
He has been boarded with strange, small dogs in the past (thought THAT will never happen again). He did not exhibit aggressive behavior. Fact.


So, I'll defer to the owner, the city and my veterinarian, who have all agreed this was a tragic accident and not the actions of a willfully vicious dog.

[Codeine]

67. Much easier than taking responsibility for your failings

as a dog owner that resulted in the traumatic injury - and very nearly death - of a small and defenseless pet. Your justifications and rationalizations of the issue reflect the worst tendencies of some, thankfully few, dog owners.

[a la izquierda]

68. What the fuck do you think I've been doing for the past

three days? Playing with myself? I've been at my neighbors house, taking her back and forth to the vet, paying every bill, getting my dog enrolled in advanced behavior curbing classes and working to ensure this doesn't happen again.
So, you can take your sanctimonious, know-it-all bullshit attitude and shove it up your ass (I'm sure this post will be deleted).
Fuck you.

[northernlights]

73. put that one on ignore

does wonders for the blood pressure. Trust me on this. :hug:

[a la izquierda]

75. Thanks...

it was a done deal as soon as I blew my gasket. So now he can say whatever the hell he wants, and I'll just take advice from folks who actually know something about dogs/have an iota of human compassion in their souls.

[tango-tee]

105. I can understand you blowing your gasket.

On a thread a few days ago, someone described an incident concerning a dog, and was met with a response saying simply "Bag. Brick. River". I damn near had a stroke. It was all I could do to not to go off the deep end and write back "Bag with you in it. Brick. River".

Just let it go. There are times it's not worth the effort.

[JanMichael]

74. wtf? The entire OP

is about the poster taking responsibility.

[a la izquierda]

76. Apparently, I didn't make myself clear enough...

perhaps Ignore would like to see the size of my vet bills since Saturday.

[JanMichael]

78. no, you were clear. The response was just assinine.

Seriously, there are some serious jerk-offs on this thread; forgive my language.

[a la izquierda]

79. Thanks and no worries on the language.

I dropped the F bomb once or twice.
I truly cannot stand know-it-alls or purposeful jerks.

[EnviroBat]

66. I have to agree. justifying a dogs "high prey instict' does't indemnify

the owner. I am a dog owner myself, and we are surrounded by neighbors with really screwed up, vicious dogs. They all blame it on the breed, or the instinct. If people or pets that live around you are intrinsically unsafe when your dog is out, you've got an unsafe dog.

[JanMichael]

80. her dog escaped. It was an accident.

life, and accidents happen.

[JanMichael]

81. self delete

[baldguy]

40. Humans are responsible for the actions & behavior of their dogs.

Living in human society is not an in-born trait for a dog. They learn how to live with humans - and their pets, and their children, and their homes - from humans themselves.

Hunting & killing things IS an in-born trait for a dog. Curbing those instincts is a large part of training.

[RamboLiberal]

43. I feel for you and for the owner of the small dog

If I can be of any help with the vet bill I'd be glad to paypal a small amount.

As a dog owner I'm not going to condemn you. This kind of thing can happen. One suggestion I would make to you though is if you can afford it and if allowed in your neighborhood a higher fence. When I got my shepherd husky mix I insisted on a high fence since I knew she could possibly jump or scale a smaller fence. I wanted it for both our protections from her escaping. And I put up some heavy beams to try keep her from digging under. Fortunately as much as she dug up my yard she never quite figured out a fence could be dug under.

And in her younger years she still managed to escape out an open gate or door a couple of times. She's not vicious and fortunately the one cat she saw while I was chasing her down the street was faster than her but I wouldn't have wanted to know what would've happened if she had caught the kitty. At least mine didn't seem to see small dogs as prey but again I'd have rather not found out while she was loose from me.

There but for the grace...I could be in your shoes.

Good luck to you, your dog & to your neighbor's dog. I don't know if I was the neighbor I could've taken it as well.

[TwilightGardener]

44. Sad story--I hope the little guy is OK. Good luck.

[hedgehog]

47. You had your dog fenced and tied, and you took off running when he did.

I give you credit for doing your damnedest. Don't feel bad because you haven't "trained" your dog. A lot of people thought their animals were trained until the day something bad happened (just ask Roy about the tiger he trained!)

We got Jack when someone left him in my car one cold January night. I'm not certain he was even weaned since the only solid food he took at first was oatmeal! He was a pretty good dog and never harmed or threatened anyone in the family. As a matter of fact, I think he was the one dog we had that never killed one of the chickens! He was just some kind of mixed hound, about 80 pounds. He got a bit more territorial as he got older, though. I happened to open the door one time to help the mail carrier with some packages and he zipped past me. She ran, and he nipped her buttocks. Thank heavens for heavy winter parkas; he only left a bruise. She was wonderful about it. She had every right to demand we put the dog down and she didn't even report it! She said it could have been anybody's dog. (I went out later that week and bought her a gift card as a thank-you because I was so relieved and so upset that she'd been harmed by my mistake!) I worried the rest of that dog's life that he would turn mean and I'd have to have him put down, but nothing like that ever happened again. It just happened that that one time his instincts were triggered and he acted on them.

[Liberal_in_LA]

49. Glad lil dog is getting vet care. That's all you can do. Can't change the past.

[a la izquierda]

51. I won't do one of those "goodbye DU posts"...

because most people on here wouldn't bat an eye, but this post, along with a host of posts on the Arizona immigration bill, abortion and GLBT rights have made me realize that simply because one claims to be a Democrat does not mean they can't have the know-it-all-ness of my right wing lunatic fringe sister-in-law. Having an opinion doesn't make one an expert. Thank god my vet and the animal welfare folks are experts and believe differently from some of you.
Anonymity makes people high and mighty. I always thought liberals were compassionate. DU is evidence that I was naive. Some liberals are compassionate. Others are just bullies.
You don't have to agree with me on this post, but I bared my soul and some of you folks, quite frankly, are just as hateful and mean-spirited as those we oppose.

Good riddance.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. I understand completely

Maybe just a short break.

If I've learned anything here, it's that most of the assholes don't stick around.

[leftyladyfrommo]

54. This forum is not a good place to bare your soul.

There is always someone who has to be awful.

I work with dogs all day long. And sometimes things just happen. They happen because they are dogs and they are so fast and they are so reactive. They happen to people who know dogs and who work with them all of the time. It simply is not possible to know what a dog is going to do in any given situation. They just do not read things the way a person does.

Lots of really little dogs get killed by bigger dogs. I don't think the bigger dogs even recognize those little guys as dogs. They react the same way they would to a cat or a squirrel or a rabbit. Its just a dog thing.

I know you must feel just awful. But you did everything you could have under the circumstances.

Try not to be so hard on yourself - or your dog. He was just being a dog. And hopefully the little guy will be all right. Its really dangerous for people to walk those little dogs out in public. They should absolutely never take them to dog parks - that is just asking for your dog to get killed.

Vizlas are nice dogs. And you are a really nice person.

[a la izquierda]

86. :)

Thank you
I appreciate the kind words.

[TwilightGardener]

57. I didn't see anyone being mean, or attacking you personally. Some people

will not give you the exact reaction you want, based on their own personal experiences. Some will judge a situation differently, and come to different conclusions, and maybe won't be delicate about it, either. Some people may not have much sympathy, especially if they'd had a dog attack their pet. If you can't accept that, then you shouldn't post personally painful stories.

[shireen]

59. she did not post this story to bare her soul

she posted it to warn others who have dogs to be vigilant, this could easily happen to ANY dog owner.

[TwilightGardener]

60. Er--she says above "I bared my soul". So, it wasn't just a "heads up" PSA.

Just saying that if your emotions are raw, it's best not to post something that will bring responses that you may not want to hear. People feel very strongly about their pets (just as the poster does), not everyone will agree that her dog is still wonderful after this incident, not everyone will agree that something like this COULD happen to all dog owners. Opinions will vary. That's OK.

[shireen]

61. yes, i saw that.

i was merely pointing out that the original intent of her post was to warn others to be aware of this aspect of canine behavior.

[shireen]

58. i agree

I've learned the same the hard way too; i also used to think one of the qualities of liberals was compassion. But i was wrong. Anonymity brings out the worst in people, they will say things they would never express under their real identities. Some are mean, and/or bullies, and/or immature, and/or simplistic. They can hurt us deeply with their words, and we need to learn to not allow these insensitive strangers to affect us that way-- they're not worth our time, energy, and respect. But your post also brought out a lot of compassionate people who feel for you. Those are the people worth coming back to at DU. I've tried to leave several times, but always came back because of the good that DU has to offer, in many of its people, like you, and the wealth of knowledge. :hug:

[Shell Beau]

62. Unfortunately too many people here are asses.

I am really sorry about your situation. I hope it works out for everyone.

[Fire1]

65. Take a break but please don't leave. I attribute alot of the

meanness to the economy, believe it or not. I think you did the best you could, under the circumstances and showed more compassion than alot of people would. There is some good advice on this thread to which I would adhere such as, the privacy fence and walking for animal socialization. Screw the rest.

[JanMichael]

77. I agree. Some of the posts here aren't just mean spirited, they

are stupid and judgemental.

This has been one of the most shocking threads I have read on DU in a while.

[pipoman]

102. Of coarse you know that this is an opinion forum

particularly GD, Lounge, LBN are often contentious. Surely it doesn't surprise you that some are more outspoken, or have different experiences than others, no?

For instance, I have a 5 pound yorkie in my lap right now. The thought of someone's vicious dog killing my best friend, accident or not, makes me sick. If I was to answer your OP from my heart, that sickness would likely spew out in my post. I realize however that you feel badly enough and have to live with your own inevitable guilt over the incident, and you have to look at your dog every day too. I am sorry this happened to you and as with any accident/mistake, smart, caring people learn and change because of experiences good and bad. I am quite sure you are no exception.

Just hang in there and realize other's experiences probably effect their emotions on this issue.

[tango-tee]

107. Wait, a la izquierda! Please don't leave.

There are many more compassionate posts than the high-and-mighty finger-pointing kind. You're going through a rough patch with this experience, hoped for understanding and got smacked between the running lights by... well.

Please don't be discouraged. Wishing both dogs well. And more than anyone - you! It will be alright. You are a responsible, caring person.

:pals:

[NNN0LHI]

53. I don't tie out or fence my dogs in for this very reason

Because one of these days they will get loose. They all do. I walk them on a leash. Several times a day. They meet and socialize with many other dogs, people and children every single day. Its our favorite time of the day.

Not walking a dog to socialize them with others is like having a loaded gun with a hair trigger laying around. It drives them nuts. I don't walk them for the physical exercise. I do it to get their minds right. I have discovered this is when I have bonded with all my dogs. And if you walk them correctly this is when they discover who the alpha of the pack is. Refer to Cesar Millan for advice on this.

You had better feel damn lucky it didn't get hold of a little kid. This story would pale by comparison if that happened.

Don

[MadHound]

63. One obvious thing that you should have done

You stated that you had your dog on a harness because he would jump the fence. Since this is a rather smallish dog, I'm assuming you had a standard four-five foot chain link. You need a larger fence, a seven foot privacy or something similar.

You shouldn't rely on cables to hold dogs, they break, that is what the fence is for. Not only would your dog not have seen the cat, but even if he had, he wouldn't have been able to jump the fence.

I suggest that you put up a larger fence now to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future.

[HillWilliam]

64. (((Dear one)))

I've been privileged to live with a couple of hungarian kuvoszok, polish tatra sheepdogs, and some other large breeds. Right now I've got a cattledog/spaniel mix, an aussie shepherd mix, a maremma/collie mix, and a weimaraner mix, all rescues from some really rough situations. No matter how well socialized, no matter how well trained, no matter how well supervised, at the end of the day they're still dogs. Sometimes powerful ingrained drives will take over. As vigilant as we can be, as well trained as we can be, as careful as we can be, at the end of the day we're still human. Both dog and partner are doing their best to be better each day.

I've worked with dogs for about 30 years now and have trained up a few canine assistants, including my partner's seizure alert dog who goes with him everywhere. Even the most mild-mannered, ladylike, sweet-dispositioned dog in a bad situation can be provoked to defend herself. That's life. We do our best to go to every length possible to avoid putting ourselves or HillbillyBob's assistant in any danger whatsoever, but, like you, we're human and realize we can't cover every base every time. HBB and I stick to training each and every day, but try as might, you can't train every behavior every day. A lot of times you have to work with situations as they arise. Sometimes you just get hit with something slam out of left field.

Don't beat yourself. Sometimes awful things happen, as much as we try to cover every eventuality. Our hearts are going out to you and the owner of the chihuahua. :hug:

[a la izquierda]

69. Thanks, I appreciate your post.

yours is the last post I'm reading on this thread. I would love the mods to lock it, but all the holier-than-thous on here can masturbate each other with their "this is how I would do it and I'm right" BS attitudes. Same attitude all over DU, as it were. Pretty sad. I guess it's a good thing this is anonymous, because none of these big men (or women) would dare say any of this to my face.

The owner and I are moving on, together, towards a workable solution. I'm not going to let some keyboard commandoes make me feel any worse than I already do.

But your post meant alot.

[Fire1]

112. Bravo! Like I said, take what you can use and fuck the rest. n/t

[Mohamed]

70. There should be regulations for this kind of things.

Really.

[JanMichael]

83. ummm what "things?" Dogs that were bred to hunt?

like my Jack Russell terrier?

[JanMichael]

82. For all the sanctimonious "I would kill your dog" folks:

You are judgemental twits in this thread. Sadly, it's easy to sit behind your screen and want to sanctimoniously pretend this wouldn't happen to you. You don't own dogs. Or you don't own big dogs. On and on, ad nauseum....no...not ME.

Wrong. Totally wrong. It might not be your dog that gets out; it might be your teenager who hits someone in their car. Or it might be your sweet kitty boo that goes out and runs in front of a car and causes a wreck from someone desperately trying to avoid hitting it.

Maybe you'll toss a smoke out the window, and start a fire.

But, to think that you can get through life scott free--- to look at a person owning up to their responsibility, and write "oh I would NEVER do that" is not just ugly-- frankly, it's a pathetic, immature outlook on the realities of existing in a community with other living beings.

That is all.

[a la izquierda]

84. Your response made me cry. Thanks for caring.

This has been THE WORST three days in my life. That includes the days surrounding my grandma's death, the time my husband and I nearly got divorced, and the time I put my sick old dog down because of a spider bite.
That bad. Many of your responses made me feel like total shit. So, those of you can congratulate yourself for making me feel worse than I already did. Bravo.

[Lil Missy]

89. People on DU will argue whether or not the sun came up on time.

Don't listen to the assholes. I, too, can feel your sincerety and utter grief.

I think your response to this tragic accident was commendable.

hugs

[Lorien]

91. So true.

Many people lurk here just waiting to pounce on anyone who seems down. THEY are the ones with the relentless "prey instinct"-or they're just miserable SOBs who have nothing better to do with their time. Sad all the way around.

[a la izquierda]

92. Thanks sugar.

I appreciate it.

[lukasahero]

85. Your response made ME cry

Thank you for putting a little perspective on the self-righteous babbling of many in this thread.

To the OP (sorry, I know your name is something I can't spell off the top of my head ;) ) :hug: Hang in there and know that you are in the thoughts and prayers of many here.

[Lorien]

90. Best response on this thread. nt

[amborin]

87. it's not clear how your dog got out, can you pls explain further?

it could have been a child your dog attacked, right?

i realize you're remorseful; but i'm terrified of dogs such as you describe; when i walk our dogs, i'm always wary of such a scenario; and, what if it had been a small child? or an adult?

[a la izquierda]

93. i was gardening in my backyard

my dog was on a 20 ft tie out, to which he was attached by a harness. he saw a cat. i did not see said cat, as my back was to the dog, and the cat was off to my side. dog lunged, broke his harness and was over the fence. the neighbor was walking her dog on the other side of the street from the alley that borders my yard.
incidentally, my dog ran past another dog to continue chasing cat, lost the cat, found the chihuahua. didn't attack the person. has never bitten a person, or the tons of children who've been in and around my yard.
sorry for the matter of fact response. i'm tired of people.

[amborin]

95. thanks for

the clarification

sorry if i sounded harsh; it's just that i'm terrified of just this scenario; sorry you had such a harrowing experience!

[a la izquierda]

99. No worries...

I am too, actually. Was out running my big guy today, and got chased by an AmStaff. Scared the crap out of me.

[Raine]

94. Sending positive thoughts

for the little guy and a hug for you. :hug:

[Oilwellian]

96. Best wishes for the Chihuahua

And don't be too hard on yourself. I have the privilege of caring for two wolves and can understand the fear of someone getting hurt by one of them. Fortunately, we have the land and erected a sturdy, high fence where they roam freely and have a roof over their heads and straw on the ground during the winter. A third wolf we had jumped the original 8 foot fence nooooo problem. So we added 2 more feet on top of that and he still jumped it. Our distant neighbor is a game warden and he said if they ever got loose, they may have to be shot. So you can imagine the panic I felt to keep this beast contained. Our answer was an electric wire at the top...he kissed it 3 times and that was it for his roaming days. I hope you can find an answer to controlling your dog as well. I know how difficult it can be sometimes and we can only do our best to solve the problems as they arise. And you will.

These are my two babies:

Bliss of the Hawkpack


Matsi

[tango-tee]

108. What beautiful, majestic animals!

Come to think of it, when I lived in Minnesota I went to visit a friend's parents. I sat on the sofa and there came this big dog, a wolf/shepherd mix as I was told later... We looked at each other...

And here comes the odd part. I started speaking German to him, very softly. His ears perked up, he came over, sniffed, put his big head on my knees and sighed one of these deep dog-sighs. And that's the way we stayed throughout the visit. Dog's head on my knees. Dog's butt on my feet.

Throughout the years I lived in America, I found that the sound of a different language fascinated dogs. I was often told that this was all in my mind, but I've seen it work too often to discount it. I realize it isn't the words - but could it be the inflection?

What is your opinion on that? I've never been attacked or bitten by a dog. My husband, on the other hand, can't get around even a tiny Yorkie without him trying to rip DH to shreds.

[Critters2]

97. I'm so sorry! I know these things happen. Don't blame yourself.

My beagle killed a kitten in our yard 2 years ago. She has lived with cats her whole life. When I raised foster kittens for the Humane Society, she was so gentle with them that they regularly tried to nurse on her.

One warm spring day, though, a stray kitten squeezed under our fence and went running at full speed across our yard, chasing a leaf. My beautiful beagle went into chase mode, caught the kitten and shook it, killing it instantly. I watched in horror, shaken to the core. She nudged it with her nose, and then walked away, looking a bit surprised herself.

I took her into the house, concerned about the safety of our three cats. But one of them rubbed against her as she came into the house, and the two of them curled up in her doggy bed and went to sleep. She had no idea what she had done.

It was the first and last instance of aggression I've witnessed in her. She doesn't even chase squirrels. She was just a bundle in instinct for that moment. But, like you, I realized what she was capable of, and have done my best to keep that in mind. Much as I love her, she is a predator, a hunter, and that instinct will never be fully controlled.

Don't be too hard on yourself. You're being a wonderfully responsible pet owner. Thank you for that. :hug:

[flvegan]

98. You're taking responsibility for a terrible accident. I respect that. Otherwise, I have to say

don't listen to the various halfwits on this thread that come into an OP like this espousing bullshit emotional response over proper solution.

The harness failed, you didn't. The Viszla has a natural drive to chase small game. To your dog, that cat and that chi were just that. The chi in your household is a pack member, and not game to your dog. One of the big warnings the greyhound rescue groups give to adoptive owners is that they are sight hounds and will give chase.

Tires blow out and cause accidents. Harnesses break and allow an accident to happen. You're being a responsible dog parent. Don't listen to idiots. Do what you're doing, just get a stronger harness. Equipment fails. One of our great danes had to be tied out on a cow chain, because she broke every chain the hardware store carried. And she was only out for 20 minutes at a time.

Saying that all dog attacks are the result of bad parenting or bad dogs is just foolish, and anyone that thinks that is a moron. Are a great number of them? Yes. Especially the ones that make the media "evil pit bull!!!1" headlines. Some are just accidents, like yours appears to be.

[Raine]

100. Totally agree, you said it very well

the poster needs to just ignore the "halfwits" in this thread. Sometimes I think the saying that "liberals love the masses and hate the individual while conservatives hate the masses and love the individual" has alot of truth to it. :-(

[Skittles]

101. yup, stuff happens

I live in an apartment complex and when I was unlocking my door at 6:00 AM after work (I work nights), a neighbor's newly aquired, very boisterous, gangly black lab (still-growing) bounded up to me and knocked me down - I was OK, a couple bruises, scrapes, but I imagine an elderly person could have been badly hurt, and it was all just an accident - the dog was under supervision, doing his "business" - but, being a puppy, had to check out what he was hearing in the breezeway and was just being friendly. The owner was beside himself apologizing but I told him, yeah, stuff happens.

[a la izquierda]

103. Thanks...

I read your responses on threads about pit bulls.
Your words mean a lot.:hug:

[LWolf]

104. I'm so sorry to hear this.

:grouphug:

From myself, and my dog, to you and yours.

[Lil Missy]

109. Any update on this?

[a la izquierda]

111. We just got back from the pound, incidentally...

the little guy got put down on Tuesday. He was pretty bad off, considering his size (4 pounds) and my dog's size (60 pounds). His owner did not want him suffering surgery, since there were no guarantees. My vet and her entire family counseled her on the matter. We told her we'd pay for whatever, and we meant it. In the end, it was best for the dog to let him go.

We had her little pup privately cremated, so we're awaiting the ashes. And she desperately wanted a new friend, so my husband and I, and her niece went to the pound and adopted her a new Chihuahua. Her niece picked it out, we paid.

The worst is past. I hope the new little guy, named Pokey, works out for her. I'm going to visit on Saturday and bring flowers, treats for the new pup, etc.
We've had a trainer out to assess our dog. There's nothing wrong with our dog except that he likes to occasionally pay attention to cats more than he should. Training him will be hard, but he's been responding extremely well to new training techniques and increased exercise.
Thanks for asking.

[Old Troop]

110. It's not your fault. Well trained dogs still respond to instinct and breeding.