The Gulf Oil Gusher shows how silly people are when they make such a big deal about Japanese whaling

[Bonobo]

The scale. The scale. The scale.

This one little 'mistake' is the equivalent of a million Japanese whalers or a 100 million Japanese eating blue-fin tuna.

It might not make for exciting TV, since there are no celebrities or throwing things or high-speed multi-million dollar boats, but the scale of this shows you how badly misguided you who overemphasize these things can be.

It is like comparing a tennis ball to a planet in terms or relative scale of the environmental damage.

It just makes me sad. If Captain Watson and his ilk really cared about the environment as they claim, they would put their efforts in entirely different directions. The truth is, he wants to be a pirate.

The US needs to look at what it is doing to the world and Americans need to do the same and stop whining about Omars, Hussains, Japanese whalers, etc.

[Junkdrawer]

1. Huh? By that logic, we should ignore BP's damage to the Gulf...

because the damage the US did to Iraq is much more severe.

[lonestarnot]

2. What bullshit.

[cwydro]

3. Yes. nt

[L0oniX]

18. +1

[QC]

47. +2

[RedCappedBandit]

4. lol.

[fishwax]

5. it shows no such thing

[Skittles]

7. it's ridiculous

[Shell Beau]

6. You're right. You should only care about some things.

Who cares if a whole species of whales go extinct? There are other things to care about, right? Except I can care about more than one thing. This OP is gross.

[flvegan]

10. Why isn't the ACLU abandoning all it does and going after oil drilling?

And the March of Dimes!!!! What the hell are they doing?

[Shell Beau]

16. This is just pure flamebait and should be treated as such.

We'll see how it goes though.

[L0oniX]

19. Here ...have some while we watch.

:popcorn:

[Shell Beau]

22. I think I am gonna need more!!

:7

[QC]

55. Don't hog it! n/t

[Bodhi BloodWave]

61. the whale species the japanese mainly hunt is not endangered

Admittedly they do hunt a 'few'of some that might be considered, and on that i disagree with em and would like em to stop.

The species they primarly hunt tho i have no problems with

[flvegan]

8. Sweet Jesus. n/t

[QC]

68. The mind reels....

[wtmusic]

9. Another whiney anti-whining post.

This spill will not drive several species of whale to the brink of extinction, but whaling has.

The scale.

[WillyT]

11. "Captain Watson and his ilk..."

That's pretty much all I need to know about you.

You do realize that many of his "ilk" happen to post here, don't you?

And BTW - Does what you're saying mean that as long as BP can kill millions of innocent animals, we should let those that only kill hundreds or thousands of animals off the hook???

Do you even hear yourself???

:wtf:

[sixmile]

12. You'd be amazed at the amount of outrage I can feel for many things at once

As an evolved human I am capable of compassion beyond belief. Compassion for eveything but avoidable ignorance.

[G_j]

13. oh....my

I have a headache

[arcadian]

14. Is this DU anymore? What the hell happened to this website?

[Shell Beau]

17. It seems having a democratic president damaged it even more than

having a republican. We could be united in our disdain for Bush, but all hell really broke loose after we elected Obama. At least that is my take. Plus some people love drama.

[Slit Skirt]

26. oh yeah...it was sooo much better with Bush

we're still cleaning up the shit left by him and darth vader,conylying rice and rummy..and we will be cleaning it up for a long time to come.

[Shell Beau]

28. Is that what I said?

Nope. Not at all. Get over yourself.

My point was that we had something to be united over. Now we don't. Or so it seems.

[Slit Skirt]

31. I don't know what you are saying ...

and I apologize for misunderstanding your post...but...get over yourself?

they are both puppets. corporations are running the show...it is not Obama vs Bush.

If corporations weren't running the show, we would have real health reform, wallstreet would be in jail, and we would have regulations on the drilling of oil

The fact that Obama hasn't completely backtrack astounds me.

United against something??? How about.. let's unite together over these animals and ocean life that are dying...being killed for greed

[Shell Beau]

32. I apologize for saying that. I get a bit defensive when I am in GD for

some reason.

I agree with your post!! AGain, sorry.

[Slit Skirt]

35. no worries..I am the same right now

I am a diver, I swim with these animals, I dive in the beautiful oceans...I am so sad and so angry...my apologies too:pals:

[Shell Beau]

37. This must be even extra tough for you.

I consider myself a huge animal lover. I live in MS, and I visit the coast yearly. I know this is devastating to everyone. x(

[Slit Skirt]

39. I think this is the angriest I have been in a very long time

animals have no voice....they need us to protect them

we didn't do a very good job...I am not sure we will be able to help them recover.

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. ^5

:thumbsup:

[tbyg52]

56. Well, here's one thing....

http://tinyurl.com/possibly-of-interest

[Slit Skirt]

15. They are both great disasters.

to diminish one disaster to make the other seem greater tells me you truly do not understand the nature of the problem in killing our marine life...it is quite devastating, and it too creates it own catastrophe. But just like the oil, we will wait until it is too late, and only then people will stand up and cry why and how did it happen. Captain Watson doesn't do it because of sentiment...or I should say not only because of sentiment. The balance in the oceans is directly related to the balance of our own lives and the life of the planet.
People seem to feel that the oceans are this vast entity that we can continually piss in and destroy and all will be ok. Whether it is killing whales, line fishing in the Galapagos, bashing baby seals, killing Sharks for shark fins, or drilling for oil...it is all bad..and devestating. The scale, the scale, the scale....it all matters....all of it.

[msongs]

20. thank for pointing out the obvious nt

[uppityperson]

24. thank you for saying it much more politely than I would have. nt

[Cleita]

21. If people had made such a big deal over off-shore drilling as they

have over whaling, we might not be where we are today. :-( Imagine how different the diversity of the ocean world might be if Greenpeace and others hadn't gone after the whalers.

[Shell Beau]

23. There are a lot of outspoken people against off shore drilling.

But $$$$ talks.

[flvegan]

25. You're right. I'm going to go euthanize my rescue dogs now

so I can work on off-shore drilling.

Who else went after the whalers so that we can correct them in their delusions of making a difference how they should have now that folks give a shit about offshore drilling? Greenpeace, PETA, the Humane Society of the US, the ASPCA, In Defense of Animals, World Society for the Protection of Animals...shit, what a list of wasted failures.

:eyes:

Idiots.

[Cleita]

42. What do your rescue dogs have to do with anything I said?

What I said was that everything good that happened because people care about whales and the eco-system can also be applied to keeping these interests out of our natural habitats. I said that these oil companies shouldn't be allowed to do what they do.

[Slit Skirt]

I can't believe what you are saying...

can you imagine what would happen if you, yourself had gotten off your ass worked for saving the oceans?
Thank God these people are out there saving whales, dolphins, baby seals, coral reefs, turtles...
feel free to protest the oil companies any time...but do not blame the problem of oil drilling in the oceans on people who already have their hands full...perhaps you would like to help them...

[Cleita]

40. Did anyone understand what I said?

I applaud these people who are out there saving the oceans and our dry lands as well. I hate the oil companies as well as other destructive mining interests and would like to see them become as obsolete as flint. I guess what I need to say is that the whale watchers have done a terrific job. It's too bad we couldn't convince the governments of all countries to do the same good job keeping the oil companies and other destructive mining interests from destroying our habitat. Okay?

[Speck Tater]

27. How can all you folks be carrying on about such trivialities when...

...people are still letting their pets run around STARK NAKED!!!! Nothing else really matters as long as innocent children still are being exposed to naked flopping puppy penises every day!

[depakid]

29. That ranks among the biggest strawmen and dumbest comments posted on DU in a long time

Congratulations- you've managed both to look like an in idiot, and destroy whatever credibility you might have had on the issue in one fell swoop!

:applause:

[Robeson]

33. Couldn't have said it better.

[Hannah Bell]

41. wait, i think you already said that about one of my recent posts. which is it, eh?

[depakid]

43. I don't recall- though now that you mention it, it might have something to do with

The Australian government being "own" by the mining industry (BHP, Rio Tinto et al).

Swan plucks golden goose

A new tax on mining profits worth up to $12 billion a year will be used to boost the retirement savings of workers, lower business taxes and build infrastructure - while still leaving room for $2.6 billion in promises for the election this year.

Unveiling its response to the Henry tax review yesterday, the government ignored a recommendation to leave alone the compulsory 9 per cent superannuation contribution paid by employers and announced this would increase gradually to 12 per cent by the end of the decade.

More: http://www.smh.com.au/business/federal-budget/swan-plucks-golden-goose-20100503-u1up.html

Your heart is often in the right place, but equally as often your facts are off...

[QC]

49. The competition for that honor is very steep,

but I think you are right.

[L0oniX]

30. Why do you hate my friends?

[Tsiyu]

46. Such precious friends, LOonix

I hope they find a safe place

[itsrobert]

34. Thanks, I'm switching to whale oil

n/t

[Robeson]

36. Since you haven't had the stones to post since your OP, I'm going to assume...

...this was nothing but flame bait.

[mitchtv]

38. unrecc

WHAT A BOOB

[girl gone mad]

44. Equivalency fail.

Your mental process is hopelessly flawed.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. What?

Really, we can't do both? Object to whale sushi AND oil spills at the same time? Really?


Fuck.

[QC]

50. No. You may only care about one issue at a time. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

51. Thank you for playing "Really Bad Analogy"

You're our new Grand Prize winner!

[gov for sale]

52. thanks and praise for silly people!

Please keep up the silly work!

[Doremus]

53. One little correction (among many): at today's consumption rate bluefin tuna will be extinct in 2 yr

Is that BIG ENOUGH SCALE for ya?

Unrecommended for idiocy.

[BoWanZi]

54. I always rooted for the japanese whalers...

... the anti-whalers on that tv show always seemed like pompous know-it-alls who would stop at nothing for their agenda and made themselves look bad in the process.

This does not mean I'm for japanese whaling, it just means I found the anti-whalers to be extremely distasteful and made me end up rooting for the wrong side.

[underseasurveyor]

58. Then you don't stand for much then do you.

Siding with the opposition because you don't approve of the delivery of a message? Would that be considered lame integrity or no integrity at all? Just asking.

BTW, Do you still have a nose on your face?

[Tailormyst]

57. Ridiculous.

You should be embarrassed that you actually pushed "post message" on this one.

[QC]

60. This is certainly one of the most interesting things posted here in a while. n/t

[Radical Activist]

59. The oil spill is still small potatoes compared to coal power and climate change.

People make a big deal about the oil leak because you can show dramatic pictures on TV and you know exactly where it came from.

Coal power kills tens of thousands yearly and has caused the extinction of plant and animal species. And the impacts of global warming will be even worse.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

62. Wow. I thought I had seen ignorance here at DU but this takes the award for sure

What an incredibly shirt-sighted, stupid post.

[QC]

63. It's pretty amazing, isn't it?

[amborin]

64. K&U flawed reasoning; gigantic crimes do not make smaller crimes acceptable!

[alarimer]

65. Not really- Straw man argument.

We can care about both things at once. Most environmentalist do.

[Prism]

66. Extinction has a larger scale

Species being hunted down can have much greater reverberations through the ecosystem than may be immediately apparent.

[QC]

67. Why must you ruin a perfectly good false equivalency? n/t

[tbyg52]

70. Just bored, I guess..... ;-> nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

69. Your approach is flawed and your numbers are garbage.

There are only a few million *whales* - one million whalers would be equivalent to "killing every whale on the planet in a matter of weeks".

If you want to talk about scale, learn about scale.

I think that comparing the amount of damage done to the environment per unit benefit between different activities is a worthwhile and legitimate exercise, but your methodology is shot to hell and back - you're trying to compare the amount of damage done from a single one-off catastrophe with the rate of damage done be ongoing processes, and you've even gotten that wrong. Plus you haven't specified what activity you're blaming for this catastrophe - how wide are you casting the net? Irresponsible oil drilling at sea? Oil drilling at sea without safety precautions XYZ? Oil drilling at sea off the coast of the US? Oil drilling at sea period? Oil drilling period? And you haven't taken into account how much benefit whichever of those activites you're looking at provides, or how much whaling and eating tuna provides. And you're comparing damage to a whole ecosystem to damage to a few specific species.

If you wanted to do this properly, you'd do it something like this:

Issue 1) Should whaling at rate n be permitted?
Cost: death of n whales per year (bad because of risk of extinction and because of cruelty to whales)
Benefit: employment for whalers, opportunity for people who want it to purchase whale meat, at levels determined by n.

Issue 2) Should oil drilling at sea be permitted?
Cost: Environmental damage at such and such a rate
Benefits: Employment, availability of oil

And perhaps

Issues 2a,2b,2c) Should safeguards X,Y,Z be mandatory for all oil drilling?
Cost: Increased price of oil
Benefit: Decreased rate of environmental damage.

And then you go away and probably do a whole research project or PhD coming up with some accurate numbers for those, rather than just pulling numbers out of the air. And at the end of that you have some meaningful information that lets you formulate an informed opinion on whether to ban whaling and/or oil drilling.

For what it's worth, I think it's fairly clear that the benefits of whaling do not come close to balancing the costs; I think that it's equally clear that the benefits of at least some oil drilling outweigh the costs, but that you probably want fairly stringent safety measures made mandatory. I have absolutely no idea what measures those might be, though.

[Ignis]

71. Jeez, Bonobo, you've gone off the rails here.

It's been stated above, but please keep in mind that humans are complex animals with the ability to focus our efforts on more than one activity at a time.

[fascisthunter]

72. whatever