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Conservatives Want To Deny U.S. Citizen Faisal Shahzad Miranda Rights, Ensuring

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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 10:56 AM
Original message
Conservatives Want To Deny U.S. Citizen Faisal Shahzad Miranda Rights, Ensuring
Edited on Tue May-04-10 10:58 AM by cal04
Conservatives Want To Deny U.S. Citizen Faisal Shahzad Miranda Rights, Ensuring He Won’t Be Convicted

As soon as the Obama administration announced that it had Umar Farouq Abdulmutallab in custody and was questioning him about his failed Christmas Day bombing, conservatives began complaining about the fact that authorities had read him his Miranda rights. Rep. Aaron Schock (R-IL), for example, inaccurately complained that as soon as Abdulmutallab “was read his Miranda he did in fact stop cooperating with our intelligence.” In reality, officials did not mirandize Abdulmutallab until after he had already made clear that he wasn’t going to talk. Even afterward, Abdulmutallab gave authorities valuable information after the FBI gained the valuable assistance of his family members, who persuaded him to cooperate.

Nevertheless, Republicans are rushing out their same playbook in the case of Times Square bombing plot suspect Faisal Shahzad:

– “I think obviously that (mirandizing Shahzad) would be a serious mistake until we’ve — at least until we find out as much information as we have, and there are ways — legal ways — of delaying that.” — Sen. John McCain (R-AZ)

– “I hope that (Attorney General Eric) Holder did discuss this with the intelligence community. If they believe they got enough from him, how much more should they get? Did they Mirandize him? I know he’s an American citizen but still.” — Rep. Peter King (R-NY)

This morning on Fox News, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) suggested that Congress should perhaps create a process to strip “American citizens who choose to become affiliated with foreign terrorists” of their citizenship and, therefore, their Miranda rights. It’s unclear how this would be accomplished, however, since such a process would also presumably involve some sort of due process:

Some of us have started to talk about it here, which is that there is an existing law — which hasn’t been much used — that says if an American citizen is shown to be fighting in a military force that is an enemy of the United States, then that person loses their citizenship and they no longer have the rights of citizenship. That’s an old law that was adopted during a very different time of conflict.

I think it’s time for us to look at whether we want to amend that law to apply it to American citizens who choose to become affiliated with foreign terrorist organizations, whether they should not also be deprived automatically of their citizenship, and therefore be deprived of rights that come with that citizenship when they are apprehended and charged with a terrorist act.

Watch it: http://thinkprogress.org/2010/05/04/miranda-faisal/

Shahzad is a naturalized U.S. citizen from Pakistan. In February, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich justified the Bush administration’s mirandizing of terrorist suspects by saying that they were citizens. (Gingrich has thus far been silent on Shahzad.)

The Justice Department has not yet said whether it has mirandized Shahzad. But whether or not it does, Shahzad has the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney under U.S. law, regardless of whether officials read him those rights. As Matt Yglesias notes, mirandizing someone just means that what someone says will be admissible in court:

Now McCain thinks he may be eligible for the death penalty, which I think may be correct. But to give him the death penalty, or indeed any penalty, you need to put him on trial. Which is to say you need to prove that the guy in custody is actually responsible for the crime. And the whole reason cops mirandize suspects is that if you don’t, you risk having your evidence thrown out of court. If you gather all the information before mirandizing, you could be throwing the whole thing into doubt. Which is why professionals give out the warning.

Believe it or not, Fox News analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano and host Glenn Beck are condemning the type of fearmongering that King and McCain are doing. This morning on Fox and Friends, Napolitano said that Shahzad needed to be mirandized, and Beck added, “He’s a citizen of the United States, so I say we uphold the laws and the Constitution on citizens.” When Fox and Friends host Brian Kilmeade interjected, “But he’s a threat to the country. That’s different,” Beck responded, “So are a lot of citizens of the country. … We don’t shred the Constitution when it’s popular.”
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Did they propose the same for the militia in Michigan that got busted? n.t
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. How can Shahzad be "eligible for the death penalty" as per McCain if at best
he's convicted of ATTEMPTED murder? Even the federal terrorism statutes don't necessarily spell out death for an incomplete crime.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Simple, Shazad is NOT eligible for the DP
McCain is acting tough rightwing cowboyish because he;s in the primary fight of his life.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. From the sounds of it, Shahzad will be another wedge issue for the GOP
Stand back, say nothing, hand the GOP miles of rope and they'll shoot each other in the face.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. +1
...and I love the mixed metaphor. :D
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. And don't cross your chickens before your bridges is hatched.
;-) It must be terrible to have such conflicted beliefs. How do these people sleep?
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. Miranda doesn't only apply to citizens
Whether or not someone is a citizen, they still have constitutional rights. Unless they plan on treating this guy as an enemy soldier or something, they still better advise him of his rights.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Equal protection clause of the 14gth amendment extends to all persons
within the jurisdiction of the United States, so yeah, miranda applies to everybody.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Timothy McVeigh was given a trial and treated as a citizen.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
8. Not this same old s**t again!!!!
Edited on Tue May-04-10 11:49 AM by Proud Liberal Dem
:banghead:

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE????!!!!!!!

:wtf:

and what's this???? GLENN BECK is CONDEMNING fearmongering????? Has the world turned inside out??? Hell frozen over???? WTF????
:crazy:
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RonSunn Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. I am suprised they are not yelling "Send him to GITMO!"
Of course that will happen after arraignment.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'm counting on it
unfortunately.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. Apparently Republicans and Joe Lieberman believe ONLY America citizens have rights..
ANYONE in America has rights. If a person is caught breaking a law they have the right to an attorney, a right to a speedy trial, a right to a jury trial, a right to be informed of those rights....ANYONE....not JUST American citizens..
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