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PD asswipes opine on May 4th, 1970.

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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:42 AM
Original message
PD asswipes opine on May 4th, 1970.
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/05/kent_state_coming_of_age_40_ye.html

antilib (nice name, schmuck) suggested that history has been too kind toward the protestors and too hard on the Guardsmen:

The students didn't ever take enough of the blame.Instead of being in class learning like they were supposed to be doing they were outside throwing rocks at people with guns.Should have learned way before college to not antaganize people with guns.Doesn't seem like they were college material.

Yeah, Gee, DAMN those students for "antaganizin" guardsmen using LIVE ROUNDS aimed at innocent kids at chest level! I guess the thinnin' of the herd is justified, since they weren't really college material anyway! The only problem with that is, 2 of the 4 students weren't even involved in the protest, you sisterhumping bitch.

Or you can be like pocitizen132, who says we should just "get over it" already!

Get over it already. Unfortunate, yes. But I see no where in here any reference to any of the many Kent State folks who served and died in Viet Nam, and the numbers outweigh those lost on Campus. Why does the Campus allow itself to be defined by these four deaths while ignoring the brave and noble sacrifices of the Kent State Marines and Soldiers -- many of whom chose to risk their lives, when those killed in the shooting just happened to get in the way of a bullet.

Uh, the reason people make a big deal about it is because students exercising their First Amendment rights . .. or merely walking to and from class . . . shouldn't have to worry about being SHOT DEAD by live rounds in a supposed "free country".

People make me sick.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, get over it already! NOT.
There are far too many idiots in the world, and none of them should have access to the print medium.

I could not agree with you more!

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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. When I was teaching...
I had my students debate the Kent State shootings. The poor bastards who tried to defend the Guard always lost... big time.

Anybody who actually looks at the historical facts.... distances from the troops to the kids killed, etc... realizes it was out-of-control Guard rookies who shot at innocent kids.

The poster pocitizen132 talks about "noble sacrifices of Kent State...". He obviously forgets that the kids killed were simply walking across campus. They never signed up to be under fire on their way to Literature class.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I actually got the NG acquitted in a mock trial we had
But then again I got the Redcoats acquitted in a Boston Massacre mock trial (I think the case against the redcoats was weaker than the case against the Guardsmen, and I also had John Adams's excellent historical legal defense to guide me).
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. On what grounds? nt
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. For the Guardsmen?
Rocks being thrown and someone yelling "fire". Actually pretty much the same defense as for the British.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. The way I understand it, the Redcoats were pelted...
with snowballs, outnumbered like a mutha by a hostile mob, and attacked. Hardly what happened at Kent State.

"On March 5, 1770 at approximately 9:00 pm an angry crowd approached sentry Hugh White standing on guard outside of the Customs House. By this time the agitators have already been in another street brawl were ready for action. One of the leaders, Edward Garrick started insulting private White, saying among other things that his company commander was a cheat and did not pay him for a wig. In perhaps the most critical mistake of this evening, White allowed himself to get involved in the quarrel and struck Garrick in the face with the butt of a musket. From there the situation quickly escalated. Despite the reinforcements and the actions taken by captain Preston trying to control the crowd, the angry mob was getting out of control. The seven British solders tried to take White to safety but could not reach him and were forced to defend themselves. Some of the attackers were waving clubs and throwing stones. At some point somebody yelled “You sons of bitches to fire! You can’t kill us all! Fire! Whey don’t you fire? You dare not fire!”

In the next few minutes the violence reached its peak. One of the attackers threw a club at private Hugh Montgomery, knocking him off his feet. Rising, Montgomery fired a shot into the air. He was stricken again with a club and Montgomery had no choice but to point his gun at the attacker, Richard Palmes who quickly fled. At the same time another soldier Private Matthew Killroy pointed his musket at the other two attackers, Edward Langford and Samuel Gray. “God damn you, don’t fire!” Gray called out. Probably the anger and the fear of being beaten by a club like his fellow solder, private Killroy pulled the trigger mortally wounding Gray. More shots were fired and more people fell to the ground wounded or dead, leaving the aftermath of 5 civilian deaths."

http://www.bostonmassacre.net/british.htm

"Before noon, students gathered on the Commons for the anti-war rally which had been planned since Friday. A campus policeman riding in a Guard vehicle told students through a bullhorn that their assembly was illegal, that everyone was ordered to disperse. Some students in front of Taylor Hall and in the Prentice Hall parking lot charged the right flank of the Guard. They began throwing stones, some shouting, "Kill the pigs. Stick the pigs." Guardsmen reacted by firing tear gas.

They marched toward the crowd. Each guardsman carried a loaded M-1 rifle. Twenty five men fired 55 shots from rifles, two fired shots from .45 caliber pistols, and one fired a single blast from a shotgun."

"Then a group of guardsmen moved in formation to the top of a small hill. Some of them turned in unison, aimed and fired. They could have just kept going over the hill. Most of the students were in a parking lot downhill, more than 100 yards away."

A standoff ensued. Students kept their distance, chanting slogans — "Pigs off campus!" — and hurling rocks and bottles, few of which reached their targets. Then the Guardsmen retraced their steps up the hill, heading back toward the commons.

The crowd had swelled to several thousand, including protest supporters, observers and bystanders. Many of them now relaxed; the confrontation seemed over.

"It was OK until they got up on that hill," Vecchio recalls.

Suddenly, about 12 Guardsmen turned 130 degrees, raised their rifles and fired. "I heard the shots," Vecchio says, "and kissed the ground."

In 12.53 seconds, 28 Guardsmen got off 61 to 67 shots. (Some fired into the ground or the air; 48 Guardsmen did not shoot at all, according to the FBI.)

Vecchio found Jeff Miller, whom she'd gotten to know over the past few days, bleeding to death. There was nothing she could do. She screamed, "Oh my God!"

Also killed: protester Allison Krause; Bill Schroeder, an ROTC student who'd been watching the protest and was shot in the back; and Sandy Scheuer, who was walking to class.

Nine students were wounded. One, Dean Kahler, was shot in the back as he lay on the ground. The bullet left him paralyzed for life. Another, Alan Canfora, ducked behind an oak tree as a bullet passed through his right wrist."

http://www.burr.kent.edu/archives/may4/afraid/afraid1.html
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. "They began throwing stones, some shouting, 'Kill the pigs. Stick the pigs.'"
And the snowballs at the Boston massacre were ice-encrusted bricks.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. But the Guard turned away, left, and then turned and fired...
the kids were hundreds of feet away.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-10 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Look, you don't need to convince me they were wrong
Edited on Wed May-05-10 05:42 AM by Recursion
The point of the mock trial was, "could I establish reasonable doubt about the individual culpability of the Guardsmen?" With the death threats, rocks and bottles being thrown, burning buildings, and direct charges on them, I could.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-10 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. That's why the jury system...
scares the shit out of me. I've got no better system in mind, but still scares me.

I see your Marine avatar. I was in the Corps from 1962-66. M-3-7 in country.... and you?
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sick is right
I served in Vietnam, and knew more than 60 guys who died there. I honor their memory AND the memory of the unarmed students gunned down at Kent State.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. Are those asswipes aware that Sandra Scheuer and William Schroeder ...
were walking to their next fucking class when they were shot?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. Their side was the one that committed this evil act. They seem unable to...
...get over that.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Even worse is that many of them are perfectly fine with it.
Edited on Tue May-04-10 05:39 PM by HughBeaumont
Some are probably cheesed that only 4 of them died.

Hatred at it's ugliest.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. yep -- i once had a boss who was not only fine with it, but saw it as cause for high praise
:puke:
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. ' ...just happened to get in the way of a bullet '?
Bailiff? Whack his ******.
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