'Republicans Care About the Constitution When it Comes to Guns, but Not Citizenship'

[onehandle]

Digby got this one right. "The total intellectual incoherence is what's unnerving."

Tyranny For Dummies:

Next time someone in a tri-corner hat starts waving the constitution in your face, ask them about today's Senate Homeland Security hearings, where the conservatives had a complete fit at Mayor Michael Bloomberg's complaint that people on the terrorist watch list can buy any gun they like and there's nothing anyone can do about it --- while at the same time they all thoughtfully pondered whether or not we should strip them of their citizenship. I'm not kidding.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/tyranny-for-dummies.html

Linked from Crooks and Liars, with a video segment:

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/republicans-care-about-constitution-when-i

[mr_liberal]

1. And unfortunately

Democrats Care About the Constitution When it Comes to Citizenship, but not Guns'

Not all, but many.

[Chulanowa]

3. This may shock you...

But people are more important than guns.

All of them.

[Electric Monk]

7. mr_buhbyethanksforplaying... strange choice of punctuation. Were you home schooled?

:hi:

[Electric Monk]

8. nt

[benEzra]

2. I think the secret blacklists need to go, period.

NO rights should be denied based on somebody putting you on a blacklist, IMO.

[Caliman73]

9. Agreed

There is no way to know you are on them, there is no way to get your name off of them. If the 4th and 5th Amendments mean anything, the lists need to go.

[Caliman73]

4. Both Bloomberg and the Republicans are wrong.

Stripping anyone's citizenship is unconstitutional without clear behaviors which indicate that they are renouncing citizenship such as joining the military of another country and engaging in open hostility against the nation. The Republicans are fear mongering.

Taking away a citizen's constitutional right to lawfully own and use firearms is unconstitutional without clear behaviors proven through due process of law that the citizen is a felon or adjudicated mentally ill and thus prohibited from owning said firearms. Bloomberg is fear mongering.

The terrorist watch list is a farce created by the Bush administration to strip people of their rights without due process. I just wonder why people would attack the watch list when it was being used to tap citizen's phones without due process but are okay with it when being used to bar people from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights?

[KharmaTrain]

5. The GOOPers Are Defending Non Citizens Buying Guns...

They had some shitstain on the cables the other day and was asked about this matter...and the blowhard went on about how owning a gun is a right...even for those who aren't citizens. In short, he was all in favor of some "terrorist", even if they're a "feriner" should be able to buy a gun yet to hell with the 4th ammendment and reading a citizen their rights to remain silent and have consul. It's as if the 2nd ammendment supercedes all the others now. How ironic they get their panties in a wad with the Times Square loser and how he should be tortured, but they sure as hell would defend this dude's rights to go in and buy an automatic weapon.

[Caliman73]

6. We already know that Republicans are stupid...

Their position, if that is so, is ridiculous and without any benefit politically. Non citizens cannot vote and thus their pandering gains them nothing except praise from their stupid base.

Non-citizens typically have no right to own firearms. Even those who are here legally are generally barred by the federal government or the States. Republicans base most of their arguments on the fear of a perceived "other" whether it be fear of ethnic minorities gaining equal status under the law, women gaining full economic and social parity, or the non-wealthy and poor actually having equal opportunity. Denying the above from happening is their entire platform.

With that in mind I disagree with your argument (though you might be speaking facetiously) that Republicans would defend the Times Square bomber's right to buy a firearm. He is brown and a Muslim. Their blind advocacy does not apply to minorities and non-Christians.

[benEzra]

10. "Immigrant" and "terrah-ist" are not, in fact, synonyms.

People who are here legally on green cards can indeed buy and own guns in most jurisdictions. Sheesh. Of all the places I expected to see "you can't trust immigrants" stereotyping, DU wasn't one of them.

I work with two people from the UK and one from Canada, and AFAIK all three live in households with firearms. They didn't come here to blow up buildings. Neither did the hundreds of thousands of other people here on green cards, regardless of their skin color.

And BTW, automatic weapons are as tightly controlled in this country as howitzers, bombs, and tanks, and have been for 76 years now. Possession outside of police/military/government or their suppliers is a 10-year Federal felony, unless you first obtain Federal authorization (BATFE Form 4). Look it up; it's called the National Firearms Act of 1934, and nobody is trying to repeal it.

[KharmaTrain]

11. You Miss The Point...

I throw those terms around as they are bantered on the cables...more as talking points and wedges rather than a true description of reality. I heard a political hack who was all atwitter about how the Time Square bomber was allowed to "get so close" and how he shouldn't have been read his rights (Mirandized) despite being an American citizen. Somehow the question then turned to the ability for a suspected "terrorist" in having the ability to buy firearms and the same hack who was all up in arms about how close the Time Square "bomber" came to killing thousands (exageration is always a good tool for the fearmongerer) jumped onto the Second Ammendment with full NRA vigor almost knee-jerk stating how owning a firearm is a right...even for an "alien". In essence it was just fine if a "terrorist" slips into the country, goes to a gun show, shows the minimum documentation (or none) and gets a weapon...and that somehow was a right...even for someone who isn't a citizen, yet a naturalized or even native-born American citizen can or should be denied all rights based on suspicion; proven guilty unless otherwise proven...turning the 4th ammendment on its head. It was a total disconnect.

[benEzra]

13. I agree that people who uphold the 2nd and trash the 4th are hypocrites.

So, IMO, are people who uphold the 4th and trash the 2nd. The Bill of Rights is not an a la carte menu.

Legal immigrants with green cards, in my opinion, should be allowed to purchase and own guns, work in schools/banks/sports stadiums/hospitals, buy fertilizer to farm with, drive buses, and otherwise live normal lives. This fearmongering about legal immigrants---and those who have been unjustly blacklisted by the Bush/Cheney apparatus---needs to stop, regardless of which side of the political spectrum it comes from, IMO.

[rucky]

12. It's interesting to me how all the republican + corpmedia globed onto the same talking point

so quickly after this arrest.