OK, DUers! Here is your Friday Afternoon Challenge Question!

[CTyankee]

"Oh sure, it was a scandal when I appeared here, but why was I also considered so sweet?"

(People using reverse Google technology, please hold off! It’s not fair to your fellow DUers who are really interested in competing based on their understanding and their love of art. Thank you for your cooperation!)

[Skip Intro]

1. Only thing I know about art is, if it ain't baroque, don't fix it...

ha ha ha

The name Charlotte comes to mind.

[CTyankee]

3. Charlotte who? nt

[olegramps]

61. Looks like she is playing a mean game of Hopscotch

[CTyankee]

2. Hint ( to get the ball rolling here): In 2001, the Italian cultural ministry

put 1.25 million Euros into restoring this.

[lpbk2713]

4. Ahh ... the old "14lnf6g"

I'd know it anywhere.

[CTyankee]

5. Wow, what's that?

[lpbk2713]

6. It's your link.

You tell me.

[CTyankee]

9. Okay, check! I was wondering what it was called.

Now I know...

But, in answer to your question, yes it IS!

[Madam Mossfern]

7. Giotto?

La Passa de Winde

[CTyankee]

8. Nah, Giotto did that ole passa de winde later than this!

:rofl:

That was fun! Thanks for chiming in!

[blogslut]

10. I have no idea

But her right hand is backwards.

[CTyankee]

11. This is common in Renaissance works...it denotes evil intent....

so that is another hint, folks!

[blogslut]

12. I'll take a guess at the subject then

Salome

[CTyankee]

13. Why do you guess that?

[blogslut]

14. Because she's dancing

And painters of way-back eras used to set historical stuff in their (present-day) time frames.

And the red shoes. Total bad girl.

[CTyankee]

15. You are correct. But why is she also so "sweet"?

[blogslut]

17. Because she's looking downward?

?

[CTyankee]

19. It's interesting that you noticed this. It's not the answer I was looking for but it is a

facet of this painting...you have to think that the artist had a reason for posing her in this position...that was a great catch!

[librechik]

21. the standing figure seems to be partly backward (hands)--is it painted over

an earlier figure?

[CTyankee]

24. That's interesting. I don't know. But I have seen this "hands backward" thing

in other Renaissance works, and it's usually the ones of the bad guys, so I just assumed it was a "code" of their painting in that era.

[CTyankee]

27. The backward hands, as I said, is a Renaissance custom.

Don't know if there is a "painted over" section of this work. It has been restored and I think this is an accurate reproduction. In that sense, the figure is what she is, not painted over from another figure...

[blogslut]

23. I'm at a loss on the sweet thing

I'll leave it to others to take their whacks at this one.

[CTyankee]

26. what would be the "sweetest" in religious iconography that you could think of? nt

[Lithos]

16. Such a pretty young thing

Too pretty though for the nunnery...

L-

[CTyankee]

18. Have you seen her looking sweet?

[Lithos]

20. Don't get that reference

Just know she is missing a few veils here.

L-

[CTyankee]

22. This is true.

[CTyankee]

25. So, Lithos, can you list a few of those "veils"?

In my opinion, probably the "best" veils of all in this century of this particular religious figure...

[Lithos]

43. The veils themselves

came later with Oscar Wilde. I googled and got the metaphorical pieces as: Dreams, Reason, Passion, Bliss, Courage, Compassion, and Knowledge. There are a lot of cultural tangents, references and nods to Wilde's work. At this point you have me as I have reached my limit to this work which was based primarily on my interest in trivia.

L-

[CTyankee]

47. The veil that Lippi painted in "The Madonna with two angels" is considered

a masterpiece in veils in the quattrocento. I do not wonder that Oscar Wilde had a fascination with it, since it has been with us for a very long time and the Brits loved going to Florence (this is actually in Prato, but very close to Florence).

I love the cultural tangents you mention. I will look into them. A great thing to research!

[mdmc]

28. Is she sweet because she dropped a delicious treat onto the table

while dancing?

[CTyankee]

30. No, she was sweet because she was the subject of other works

where she was portrayed as a much nicer person, to say the least...

[Duer 157099]

29. Has she been dancing in the blood of Jesus? n/t

[CTyankee]

31. No, not in Jesus but in another important personage....

However, this is NOT the point of the challenge question. The question is: why was she portrayed so sweetly in other paintings?

[Duer 157099]

32. Ah, John the Baptist then n/t

[CTyankee]

35. Not him, but her personage as someone else in Renaissance history.

He was, of course, the victim of Salome's treachery, but her fame was because of her loveliness in the artist's rendering of ANOTHER famous woman in religious history...it was a scandal in its time....

[Duer 157099]

39. All I can think of is one of the Marys n/t

[CTyankee]

45. Winner! She is the subject of several of Lippi's Madonnas. My favorite is here:

And there are more...

[Duer 157099]

42. I resorted to Google so I won't post what I found n/t

[CTyankee]

46. Did you know the artist? How did you "resort to Google?"

I'm intersted in knowing...thanks...

[Duer 157099]

48. Nope, not until reading this thread anyway

Although there's a good chance I learned some of this decades ago in college art history classes. Not that I'd remember, mind you.

These are fun! Keep 'em coming!

:thumbsup:

BTW, the Mary guess was before I Googled heheh

[CTyankee]

49. Oh, you are good! I just didn'twant people doing something weird with Google.

I LOVE talking on line with art history majors about this stuff...it is so much FUN.

[Duer 157099]

34. I didn't know she was portrayed sweetly

I've always heard her name associated with seduction and evil.

[CTyankee]

38. Not the subject. The model of the painting. nt

[malaise]

37. She was Lippi's lover n/t

[CTyankee]

40. And why was she such a scandal as his lover (in the paintings of her) ?

[malaise]

41. Well nuns aren't supposed to have babies

for decadent artists :evilgrin:

[CTyankee]

44. Right, but why was is so scandalous that she was painted as THIS person? nt

[KittyWampus]

33. Fra Filippo Lippi’s painting “Salome Dancing at the Feast of Herod.”

Edit- I almost said Botticelli but his Salome was different. It's believed he apprenticed with Lippo Lippi, hence the similarities.

[CTyankee]

36. Correct. But why was she so nice in so many works?

[CTyankee]

50. You are the BEST! How did you know the painting?

I deliberately pictured only a part of it...the whole painting would have have given it away immediately of course...so you must have known this painting from a background in art....

[KittyWampus]

53. One of my majors was Art History. Here's one of my favorites from the Met >

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. I know jack about art history. I just want to say that I look forward to this each Friday.

I know that I'll learn something at least one day each week. :)

[CTyankee]

52. What a nice thing to say! I am impressed.

You are wonderful to say this and it makes me feel good about doing it!

This is fun, isn't it?

[mdmc]

54. Do you have a pic of the whole painting..

I'd like to see..

[CTyankee]

56. Here it is

On edit: sorry it is so small! But you can google it Salome at the Feast of Herod by Filippo Lippi. Many photos of it are out there...

[mdmc]

60. thanks

[malaise]

55. I know a little about art history but I also look foward to

CTyankee's Friday lessons.

[CTyankee]

57. I've got plenty more...

I'm glad it's fun for people...art history is really interesting...those backward hands, for instance...how weird is that! And the fact that when linear perspective was discovered and put in paintings of the mid 15th century, many people were actually freaked out by the vanishing point, that you could just shrivel up and disappear in the distance! Well, I guess it's one thing that we don't have to worry about...

[KittyWampus]

58. the psychological impact of symbolic representation as it's changed over time. Also, I noted

to a friend last month while we ambled through the Met- it was only several hundred years ago when artists didn't even sign their work. The rise of the Individual.

[CTyankee]

59. Ah, you've given me an idea for another challenge!

thanks, Kitty, kind words and inspiration...