Teacher merit pay test given to students had many errors...French test given to German class.

[madfloridian]

And that is only part of it. The whole test was messed up. Florida just keeps on embarrassing me.

This is what passed the legislature as a merit plan for teachers. Each district gets to set up its own test to judge the teachers. Now they don't even seem to be telling the truth about who designed the test.

This is how Florida is going to judge its teachers? Maybe they should just quit while they are ahead. Read more from Orange County, Florida.

Errors Found in School Tests

ORLANDO - Students in a high school German class were prepped for a test, just not one in French. That wasn't the only mistake students in Orange County found on tests administered as part of a new teacher performance pay system. Spelling errors, misnumbered questions and repeated material were some of the errors discovered on the tests, teachers said. The test is a result of a law passed last year by the Florida Legislature to reward teachers with raises if their students score among the top 25 percent in their county.

Kathy Marsh, a spokeswoman for the school district confirmed there were errors, but would not say how many "glitches" were reported. Marsh also did not specifically identify who developed the tests, saying only that teachers and "teams of writers" composed them. The Classroom Teachers Association also helped design the tests, she said.

However, Mike Cahill, president of the local chapter of the teachers group denied involvement.

"That is not true. We had nothing to do with creating the tests or the delivery of the tests."

Wow, I was getting used to the fact that they ended their session without addressing KidCare. I was just thinking about the possible fallout from the privatized toll roads bill they just sent to Crist.

Then I find out that one of the largest districts not only is dishonest about who made up the test, but they actually gave the test out to the students without checking it out.

I am so glad I am retired. And I almost left out the best part of the article. A teacher refused to give the test. Thumbs up to her. :thumbsup:

Nancy Kendall, who teaches 11th grade gifted English at Apopka High School, said she was not going to give her students the test after finding a page missing, one page repeated twice, and a reading excerpt repeated in five places. Eight questions on the test referred to an article not included, she said.

I can not believe it. The test meant to evaluate performance of teachers was all messed up, and the district appears to have not told the truth about who created it.

:think:

[madfloridian]

1. This county received 10 million to give teachers in merit pay.

And they don't even know how to give a test to figure out who deserves the merit pay.

I hear our county is having problems also.

"Orange County received more than $10 million of the nearly $150 million allocated by the state to distribute among its nearly 3,000 teachers, the district said in a statement Thursday."

[LWolf]

2. Can we ask these questions:

Even if the test was well-written...

Why would you give a test to students to evaluate teachers?

Why should students have to take extra tests that are not needed in their own educational journey?

Why do people continue to promote the idea that student test scores can be a fair evaluation of teachers, when teachers don't control all of the factors significant in success on the tests?

Or are all of these questions going to be swept under the rug while we bemoan bad tests, and look for "better" tests that shouldn't be given to begin with?

[madfloridian]

4. Good questions with no good answers.

Letting the students' test score decide merit pay is just unbelievably stupid.

I said when I retired I would not do what many teachers did...go back and substitute or help in classrooms.

I saw the writing on the wall when I retired, and I got out and never went back.

[Igel]

13. Because of the NEA.

Sounds like flamebait. It isn't.

NEA likes pay increases and job security. It's a union. It claims that with more money and certification teachers can make a difference--basically, "Want smart kids? Pay us."

The problem, however, is the implicit assumption that good teachers produce good students and bad teachers produce poor students. Quality of teacher is positively--and presumably strongly--correlated with student achievement. Teacher quality accounts, the claim has to be, for a lot of the variance in student achievement.

The claimed correlation works in the teachers' favor when pushing for better contracts and more school funding.

It bites them in the ass when the correlation's read in the other direction: If student achievement and teacher quality are correlated, then (a) good teachers yield high student achievement and (b) high student achievement signals good teachers. Administrators have bought (a); (b) readily follows.

Want to reward good teachers? First find good teachers. How? Ascertain the level of student achievement. How do you do that--believe the teachers? No; an independent assessment's needed. One-on-one interview's are expensive and subject to variation by interviewer--but testing is cheap and (supposedly) administered equitably over the entire cohort.

The NEA vehemently pushes (a) while denying (b).

[MadHound]

18. Spoken like one who has absolutely no clue as to the immense amount of variable

Inherent in any such standardized testing. The quality of teaching recieved by the students is simply one among many. Perhaps the kid doesn't give a damn(since the student's own advancement isn't tied to the test), perhaps the student has various special needs, perhaps the student hasn't taken their medication that they need, perhaps their hungry, perhaps they were abused by a parent the night before, perhaps the student had to work late at the local McD, helping his/her family make ends meet, perhaps perhaps, perhaps. Design me a standardized test that can take into account each and every one of these variables and then we can start talking about tying teachers' pay to children's testing.

Secondly, how would you like it if your pay, the material you were to work with, the instruments of your profession all were tied directly to the voters' whim, worse yet these things had to get by the voters in the form of a tax increase, and in many if not most cases that tax raise has to be passed by two thirds of the voters. If that doesn't go through, you are expected to do not only the job that you did last year, but in many cases have your duties increased if you are actually lucky to keep your job. Oh, and don't forget, you're supposed to educate the next generation via this method:eyes:

And funny how you dis the NEA. What, is it something personal with the NEA, or is this a general feeling about unions(you know, those long time backbones of the Democratic party)?

Frankly, the NEA has a point, pay teachers more and you will have a higher quality teacher. Make the benefits and compensation package attractive enough and you will be able to retain and recruit high quality teachers. Do you realize that most teacher education programs have the highest number of hours of any four year degree program? Generally aprox. a third more hours than other four year programs. Also a third more outlay in cash, more if you take into account interest. In addition, all school districts now require you to have started on your masters degree with four years of initial hire. More expensives tied to that. All for a profession starting out in the lowest quadrile of the degree pay scale, whose raises are tied to voters' whims and student testing. Yes, I think the NEA has a distinct point.

Your points ring hollow, trying to make teachers and the NEA into the bad guy here. I tell you what, let's tie your career, your pay raises to the whim of the voters and client evaluation. Let you have the debts of a fourth year teacher, ooo, and the same payrate too. Then let's see how long you keep singing this tune:eyes:

[LWolf]

22. My experience with the NEA

as a member: They don't represent me. They don't listen to me. They don't really care what I think.

Better contracts/pay? I'd love that. Really, I would. I've been in public education since 1983. My oldest son, who left college after his AA to avoid student loans, makes more money than I do, and gets better benefits.

I don't buy using student achievement to evaluate teacher quality. Why not? Because I know that there are many significant factors affecting student achievement that are well beyond the teacher's professional sphere of influence. Of course, we're told not to pay attention to those factors, just focus on what we CAN affect. And we do. Still, when those factors are actually more significant than what a teacher does, why should we be evaluated that way?

There is a correlation between student achievement and teacher quality, but it is not a single, isolated correlation. Until you can address all the other factors, it's not a valid measure.

I'd just like to make the same amount of money people outside of my profession do with my education and years of experience.

[bookman]

23. I have to come in defense of the NEA...

...and more importantly the state and local affiliates. The NEA provides support for state and local education associations.

Because of those groups I have retired after 30+ years of teaching with a decent pension, and medical benefits. While working they were advocates for us in many ways. The regional offices gave us sound advice and support.

They got laws passed that gave us rights to bargain. I'm not a millionaire, but I'm living very comfortable on my pension and my savings.

Testing has led to nothing but a decline in education. Administrators provide little help in my years of teaching (and I had many of them). Merit Pay will stifle the collective support of a school staff.

As far as them "listening" to you. Get involved. They are member driven organizations.

[LWolf]

24. My complaint stems from one issue.

It's a deal-breaking issue, though.

They have not led the way to oppose NCLB or abolish high stakes testing. They have gone the "fix it" route, which infers that the whole thing is fine, and just needs to be refined, "tweaked," etc..

I disagree. I think it needs to be gone, and I'd appreciate them doing that work with the money they get from me, both national and state. Both local and state organizations have been hearing me on this for more than a decade, since I was working under a state version of the testing movement before Bush ever made it to Washington and Teddy presented him with this weapon of public ed destruction.

Until they refute the whole standards and accountability movement, complete with mandated tests, rankings, sanctions, etc., they get no appreciation from me.

Not that I'm against standards, or accountability. Just not as the political weapon currently in vogue.

Frankly, I've worked in public ed since 1983, and my retirement doesn't look great, and my benefit package gets more costly every year. My oldest son made more money 2 years out of high school, no college required, than I did after a decade being represented by the NEA.

[jmowreader]

19. I know the answer to the first one; so do you

Because high-performing subordinates (students, in this case) are the mark of a high-performing leader.

And, hand-in-hand with that, low-performing subordinates mean a low-performing leader.

I don't think it works at all, but they keep trying to push the idea.

[Bluebear]

3. Can you imagine taking that German test? "Whoa, dude, I should have paid attention..."

"NOTHING in here rings a bell!"

[shenmue]

6. I would have loved to watch the students picking up the test papers

:wtf:

:wow:

"What the...?!"

[Igel]

14. Esp. when most of what they recognized was

"die".

[shenmue]

5. Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh

I swear, if things get any worse, we are all gonna 'splode.

:crazy:

The Bush war on education has to stop.

:grr:

[WinkyDink]

7. Meanwhile, what of those teachers of subjects that AREN'T TESTED FOR? Phys Ed;, e.g.

Or staff that aren't teachers? Guidance Counselors, e.g.

IOW, EITHER not every teacher is eleigible for merit pay, OR many will receive it WITHOUT their being teachers of tested subject matter.

My point: "Merit pay" is a SCAM designed to divide and conquer the staff/union!

[madfloridian]

8. It is a scam and a joke.

It is an idea foisted on teachers for many years with no real reason.

Since no one speaks out for teachers it just continues.

[silverojo]

9. What are you talking about?

When I was taking P.E., we had to take written exams about the subject matter we were learning. Are you telling me that kids are even getting out of THAT now?

[madfloridian]

10. I don't know, but I think PE is just being required again in our area.

It used be half an hour every day. Now I just saw an article today that the legislature was requiring it. Flipped my mind, I thought our schools had it.

And yes, now in Florida teachers are going to be paid according to how the students do on county made tests. Sounds like Orange County did not get it right.

[madfloridian]

12. Here is the article.

Before I retired not that long ago...we had 30 minutes a day required with tests given by the coach who had to be qualified. Now I am learning they had done away with it?? Starting it again?


http://theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070504/NEWS/705040379/1005/NEWS02

"TALLAHASSEE - Parents might want to add another pair of gym shoes to their school-supply lists next year.

Under a bill that passed the Legislature and is expected to be enthusiastically signed into law by Gov. Charlie Crist, Florida's elementary school students will be required to have 150 minutes of physical education a week - four times more than many schools currently provide.

While lawmakers celebrated the obesity-busting plan, school principals remained skeptical. Gym space, P.E. teachers - not to mention extra minutes - are hard to come by, educators said.

"I just don't have an extra hour to squeeze anything else in," said Brian Flynn, principal at Rowlett Elementary in Manatee County?

[WinkyDink]

15. Even if they did, it still doesn't address my point

about union/association staff who aren't teachers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Oh great

our superintendent is hailing the Florida plan as a model for us to follow in setting up merit pay.

[madfloridian]

16. More: "German exam in French is all Greek to kids"

My heart goes out to all teachers who are being judged and evaluated for merit pay by people who can't tell the difference between German and French. It goes beyond ridiculous.

German exam in French is all Greek to kids

Students in a German class received a test written in French. English students had to wade through multiple misspellings and repeated material. Questions in a physics exam referred to an illustration that was missing.

These and other problems are popping up in the tests that thousands of Orange County students are taking this week to determine how much their high-school teachers should receive in state merit pay. More than $10 million in bonus cash hinges on how well students perform on these tests, a situation many teachers find appalling.

"When you can't tell the difference between German and French, that is a pretty sad day for education," said Nancy Kendall, who teaches gifted English classes at Apopka High School.

Insulted teachers are protesting by refusing to give the exams, and outraged students are complaining.

"A monkey could type up a better test," said Denver Sangrey, a senior at Boone High School in Orlando.

Amen, Denver.

[madfloridian]

17. Update: Teachers in that country ask Crist to intervene, divvy up the 10.4 million

among all the teachers of the county. I concur, since they can't seem to figure out how to judge a good teacher. :eyes:

Wish they would ask me. I could tell them how to judge a good teacher. A lot of us could.

Union Wants $10.4M Divided Among All Teachers

Officials said $10.4 million is scheduled to be paid to teachers in Orange County, depending on the success of the test scores their students achieve.

But Michael Cahill of the Classroom Teachers Association said the test results should be thrown out because of the errors.

"The invalid, deeply flawed tests cause anxiety in the teachers, causes anxiety in the students. This is why they may want to consider shelving this until next year," Michael Cahill of the Classroom Teachers Association said.

The union suggested that Crist should call an emergency session and the $10.4 million should be spread out among all Orange County teachers this year rather than using a merit-pay system.

[jdadd]

20. This teacher should get merit pay...

Nancy Kendall, who teaches 11th grade gifted English at Apopka High School, said she was not going to give her students the test after finding a page missing, one page repeated twice, and a reading excerpt repeated in five places. Eight questions on the test referred to an article not included, she said.

It looks like Nancy is the only teacher that pays attention....Ya think maybe this is how they planned it?
:sarcasm:

[tanyev]

21. Interesting that they will not identify the company that developed the tests.

I wonder which member of the Bush family will have financial ties to that company?