What is your solution to stopping the oil gusher?

[kentuck]

In my opinion, rather than putting a 90-ton cylinder over the gusher, they should simply drop a 100-ton of huge boulders on the gusher. Maybe they will have to put a 1000-tons of boulders over the gusher?

However, I do not think there is a way to save the oil. They should try to cover it up and stop the gusher, in my opinion. Start hauling 100-tons of boulder out to the gusher and dump them on the ocean floor. That is my idea. Any others?

[MrScorpio]

1. Send Cheney down there with a screwdriver

He obviously has all the answers.

[Ishoutandscream2]

2. To Cheney, a screwdriver is a vodka and orange juice

[tekisui]

5. To Cheney, a screwdriver is vodka and leaked oil on the rocks.

[Texasgal]

11. OMMMF!

:rofl:

[NYC_SKP]

3. The spaces between the boulders would allow the oil to escape.

I wonder how heavy a cap would need to be to stop the oil from escaping.

AFAIK, the oil is under great pressure and no such solution is possible.

They punctured the geology that contained it, and it's possible that the only thing to do is to try to collect it as it escapes.

:shrug:

[kentuck]

8. That is true...

They would need to dump small gravel in between the boulders to fill the crevices. After each 100-tons of boulders, drop a filler around them. Until it stops leaking.

[NYC_SKP]

21. Spin a long cylindrical cap over the well head, then apply the weight.

Like capping a pen.

Interesting that their current "solution" allows them to continue to extract.

The crystallizing hydrates apparently prevent the flow, so they quit.

So why not just screw collecting the oil and drop the lid on this thing anyway?

Well, it's because these aren't designed to stop the leak, they're designed to contain and collect what's leaking.

Maybe they need to think differently and just stop the g.d. leaking and escaping part.

Screw their 500-900 million barrels.

fuckers. :nuke:

[kentuck]

26. I agree.

They still want the oil more than they want to stop it.

[Statistical]

48. Even if they do stop the leak they are STILL going after the oil.

You think the US govt is going to put this oil field "off limits" forever? Really?

Once this situation is resolved it will be business as usual. An oil field that larger eventually will have 10 to 20 wells drilled into it.

[Statistical]

45. The oil is under 100,000 psi you can't just cap that.

You can't cap it with anything man made.

Mother natures "cap" is 30,000 ft of solid rock.

The permanent cap is to drill a relief well and fill the entire 30,000 ft well shaft solid with concrete. That is going to take 90 days.

what if you solutions to stop/slow oil flow for next 90 days.

BTW: BP wasn't trying to siphon the oil permanently it was just a method to reduce oil into environment for next 90 days while the relief well is drilled.

The 500 million barrels will be tapped later. They are going to drill another well and setup a pipeline eventually. If you think because of this accident that they won't try again on this oil field (500 million barrels * $80 per barrel = $40 billion) well you are just being silly.

[NYC_SKP]

104. Did I suggest that the "fix" was intended to be permanent?

I sure didn't mean to, that would be silly.

Dropping makeshift domes over cracked sections of collapsed pipe as any sort of permanent fix is more than silly, it's stupid.

What I did mean to suggest is there might be a better way to end this that it might permanently ruin their current well head.

It's speculation, I don't think I needed to explain that point.

AFAIK, the relief well is not a permanent solution and the long term plan is to resume extraction from the existing well head.

If I'm wrong, and I don't doubt your sources, I'm happy to be enlightened.

:patriot:

[fishwax]

98. I agree that

it seems they're more concerned about losing the oil than the damage it will cause.

[shedevil69taz]

22. The oil is already being forced out by the pressure of

billions of tons of rocks. Boulders and gravel wouldn't do much of anything to help the situation and would likely make any other options more difficult to implement.

I'm not sure exactly what course I would suggest myself, I'm sure much smarter people than me who have degrees in geophysics working on the problem as we speak.

[kentuck]

28. Don't bet on it.

Don't put all your faith in these folks that caused the spill.

[shedevil69taz]

47. Eh they have already tried my first idea

with the coffer that didn't work. I mean if you couldnt shut it down obviously trying to contain it on the surface wont work so why not try to contain it closer to the source, and then funnel it to ships on the surface. Of course it wont do much good to have to same thing happen to the funnel that happend to the original mechanisms, and I don't know enough about chemistry to come up with a reliable way to combat the problem of buildup of methane crystals.

[rurallib]

4. Use the necessary equipment in the first place?

an ounce of prevention is worth 200,000 gallons a day

[Electric Monk]

87. Now where'd I put my time machine....

[Initech]

6. We should stuff Rush Limbaugh in there - that would solve two problems at once!

[begin_within]

61. Yes, but a high-pressure blob of gas is what caused the explosion...

[Initech]

110. Maybe we use another high-pressure blob of gas to fix it, cancel the two out!

[tekisui]

7. There is no good solution, which is why deep sea drilling is a bad idea.

[kentuck]

10. True...

But what do we do about the present situation. The blame can be discussed later.

[tekisui]

17. I honestly think the 'best' we can do is wait 3 months for the relief well.

Nothing else has been proven to work. I am not trying to place blame. I am saying, this is exactly why it is a bad idea. We can be forced into situations with no good options.

We just have to hope the kink in the pipe will last longer than the time it takes for the relief well to be completed.

[Junkdrawer]

15. One wonders if the relief well will work in this environment...

:(

[tekisui]

19. God, I hadn't thought of that.

I was assuming the relief well would just work. But, you make a good point. Why should we hold out much hope that it will?

[Ruby the Liberal]

23. How do they know the relief well won't drill into the same force of pressure?

Adding new leaks to the mix...

[tekisui]

27. I am at a loss.

That is a worse case than the worse case scenario they have given us.

[Ruby the Liberal]

30. Exactly

It is truly a frightening idea.

[mike_c]

42. it will, of course, but if it doesn't explode...

...then it will relieve the pressure and allow the current well to be capped. Once the pressure has another outlet or several, the existing hole can be capped.

Of course, that begs the question, what assurance is there that the relief well won't self-destruct? I think the methane clathrates are going to turn out to be the key issue here, since relieving the pressure automatically releases more explosive methane. But the situation is different now-- the alternatives are no longer "drill or don't drill." The no drill option leaves us with the present disaster.

[Statistical]

51. The original well didn't leak when the drilled into the pocket.

The original well had sufficient drilling mud to contain the pressure. Imagine what a mile of dense drilling mud weighs.

They ran into problem when Haliburton fucked up the concrete seal. Thinking the seal was good the pulled up drilling mud to prepare to remove riser pipe and when they did the concrete seal gave way and methane gas flooded up riser pipe spilling into rig. Then ignition source + gas = bang. Rig sinks and damaged riser pipe is leaking oil.

[Ruby the Liberal]

54. Does the same procedure not have to take place for the relief well?

I know I would sleep better if the answer to that was 'no'.

[Statistical]

68. Well you won't be sleeping well.

Sorry. The same procedure will need to be used.

Using drilling mud to control pressure is only a temporary solution. It is done while drilling because it is fluid and more "mud" (which is really a synthetic blend of chemicals and earth) can be added to handle the pressure at the drill bit. As drill bit goes deeper and deeper the mud follows it. The pressure of the mud forces drill bit downwards, lubricates the bit, and provides a "liquid" seal holding back any gasses under pressure.

This is all good when drilling but to convert the drilling shaft into a well you need to remove drilling mud once you do that the oil/gas under pressure will come flying out the drilling shaft.

So the step between drilling shaft and production well is a concrete seal. The relief well will need to be sealed just like the Deep Horizon well was (or wasn't). We can only pray BP isn't trusting those quacks at Haliburton with round #2 and takes it slow and makes the concrete seal 100%, 200%, 500% thicker than needed.

The problem on Deep Horizon seems to be related to the concrete seal (created by Haliburton). It seems like the seal was either done improperly or wasn't strong enough. When the drilling mud was removed the seal broke and then gas flowed upward (under massive pressure) and flooded the rig which lead to the explosion.

On the relief well once BP is sure the concrete seal is holding the drilling mud can be removed and the relief well converted into a production well. I would assume they would do this step very carefully ready to reapply drilling mud if the seal doesn't hold.

Once the concrete seal is in place and drilling mud removed they can either:
a) try to take pressure off main well and then try to cap it. Possible the BOP will close when under less pressure. (Likely first attempt)
b) use the relief well to fill the entire production well with concrete. Essentially create a mile long concrete plug to replicate what mother nature does naturally.

[kentuck]

70. Are you a geologist, statitical ??

You sound very knowledgeable on this subject.

[Statistical]

80. No. I build statistical models for physicists.

So my knowledge may (and likely is) incomplete however generally pressure is pressure, and flow rate is flow rate. Physics lets us model lots of stuff and I am not trying to be "exact" but more like put the problem in the right magnitude.

The larger thing to take away is magnitude.

The blood in your body is under about 2 psi.
A garden hose is under about 30-60 psi
A firehouse is under about 100-300 psi
A nuclear reactor coolant is about 400-900 psi (depends on if it is boiling water reactor or pressurized water reactor)
Hydrolic cylinder in heavy industrial applications is maybe 1000-2000 psi.

This gysher is under at least 50,000 psi but some estimates are as high as 100,000 psi.

What works to stop bleeding, or seal a hydrolic leak isn't going to work under these pressures.

BP understood this and that is why the "dome" wasn't design to try and contain the pressure but rather acts as a "Waiting room" so it could be pumped to the surface.
Try to brute force mother nature and 100,000 psi and you are going to lose.

[kentuck]

81. Your swimming pool was a good analogy..

and easy to understand. How would they be able to cap the cylinder before it filled up? And once it filled up, would it not continue to gush out of the top of the cylinder?

[Statistical]

88. That is why the goal was to connect the cylinder to a boat on the surface.

The boat can pump 300,000 gallons per day. The gusher is 200,00 gallons per day. They weren't trying to fight the pressure simply to move the oil from the dome to the boat where it can be contained.

Back to the swimming pool. Imagine a firehose, swimming pool, and a team of people with buckets.
Swimming pool = dome
firehose = oil gusher
team w/ buckets = pipe and pumps to boat.

If the bucket team can empty the swimming pool at the same rate the firehose fills it then it will never overflow. Except right now the swimming pool is frozen solid, can't empty it is it freezes. :(

Too bad the ice formation was beyond BP projections. They were planning on using hot water to thaw any ice but seems like ice is forming too fast. I certainly hope they got some good physicists working for them. It certainly can be overcome just don't know if it can be overcome in time. This is why a solution should have been devised FIRST before drilling in deep water.

The final fix is a relief well but that is going to take 90 days and that means a lot of spilled oil unless they can overcome the freezing problem.

[Ruby the Liberal]

99. I need a drink

This is going from worse to unimaginable.

[Junkdrawer]

125. Heat from the setting concrete releases gasses trapped in methane hydrate....

See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8297309

[NotThisTime]

108. The experts have said this as well, it's never been done at this depth. NOTHING has been done at

this depth... Everything will be new.

Whatever precautions they needed to take to be sure this didn't happen should have been used and if they could guarantee it, they shouldn't have done it, end of story.

[Peacetrain]

9. That is such a good question...Is this gushing with enormous force..

or is it a huge leak that could be contained with boulders.. etc?

[kentuck]

12. If they were going to put a 90-ton cylinder over it...

I would think that would be enough to contain the oil gush?

[mike_c]

46. no-- you're not thinking about it correctly....

Think of the coffer dam as a cup placed over a spewing faucet, but resting on soft sediment. The oil would only be "contained" for a short time-- it will certainly begin to leak from around the rim of the "cup" pretty quickly. If the mass of the coffer dam were all that keeps the oil back, the oil would simply find an easier way past the coffer dam.

The intent is to attach a pipe and pump, apply suction, and suck up the oil at the same rate it issues from the wellhead. Frankly, I suspect the engineers, execs, and gov't folks would actually be happiest with slightly under-reclamation. That would still allow some oil to leak out around the edges, but it would result in cleaner oil recovery, and let's face it, if they can reduce the gusher from 5000 barrels a day to 100 barrels a day, most folks will rejoice even though THAT would have been an environmental catastrophe two weeks ago. All of that is to buy time, of course-- the ultimate solution is still to relieve the pressure and cap that well.

[Stardust]

67. How can they cap the well if there's a crumbled oil rig sitting on top of it?

And how can they possibly remove the rig 5,000 feet deep? I quite honestly think we're doomed.

[Codeine]

75. The rig isn't on top of it. nt

[Stardust]

118. And you know this how? Seriously, if you have other information, please share. n/t

[Codeine]

124. They lowered a cofferdam over the head.

Had there been a rig in the way that would have been impossible.

[mike_c]

83. if the drilling rig was on top of the well, the coffer dam could not be placed....

eom

[Statistical]

56. Not even close. The oil stream is under about 100,000 psi.

If you made an airtight seal around the damaged pipe it would blow that concrete cylinder off like soda bottle rocket.

Hell it would blow a 9000 tons cylinder off without much difficulty.

Remember mother nature method to keep the oil contained is about 30,000 ft of solid rock. No little 90 ton, 900 ton, or even 9,000 ton object is going to hold back that kind of pressure & flow.

The reason the cap and pump method would have "work" (if it hadn't frozen) is because they aren't trying to use brute force to contain the oil rather they are pumping it to the ship as fast as it is spilling. Think of draining a swimming pool at same rate you are filling it. The level in the pool (oil in water) doesn't change.

[Taverner]

13. Nuclear Warhead

Loaded with all kinds of shit

Make it go BOOM!

Then fence of everything nearby

Sorry - other than that, I got Nuthin'!

Go see a real engineer if you want solutions :)

[amerikat]

14. Two ideas

Add heat to the dome to break up the methane hydrate,
or add air bubbles to lower the pressure in the dome.
Maybe a heated collar at the outlet of the dome?

[SidDithers]

114. +1...

bet the engineers are already working on something like this.

Sid

[amerikat]

115. Thanks for your vote of confidence.

This problem will on be solved with novel ideas

[Sebastian Doyle]

16. Throw the oil executives down the hole, one by one, until the leak stops.

Start with Cheney. Then the BP assclowns. Then who's ever running Halliburton. Then the guy with the quadruple chin from Exxon. (yeah, I know they weren't involved in THIS disaster, but they have it coming anyway.)

Then move on to Sarah Palin and every other Repuke politician that shilled for "Drill Baby Drill" (including Landrieu, Salazar, and all other DLC'ers who are guilty)

And after all that, if it's still gushing, we still have improved the planet, and taken a big step to prevent such careless destruction in the future.

[valerief]

25. +100 trillion

[northernlights]

31. they should provide enough hot air to keep the crystals from freezing nt

[tularetom]

18. Nuke it

Isn't that the American solution to any problem?

[HopeHoops]

20. Show it a picture of Sarah Palin in the nude - that would shut down ANY gusher!

:evilgrin:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

24. Drop several dozen of these or something similar around the outlet...

choke it down at least. Drop pointed heavy thingies from 1000 feet or so and let them do their work.

[valerief]

29. Isn't WAR the solution for everything? Sigh… nt

[Delphinus]

32. Stopping the leak is paramount.

They should not try to save the oil - plugging the hole in some form would be the best solution.

[greytdemocrat]

33. That's your solution???

Honestly, I live in Florida now and this thread is an embarrassment.

You should really think before you post something like this.

[kentuck]

35. Well, what is your solution?

Don't be embarrassed. Tell us.

[greytdemocrat]

39. ***Sigh***

I'll be kind and assume this thread is a joke/spoof of something.

Your solution is stupid, and that's the kindest word I can find.

[kentuck]

41. Well, I'll ask again...

What is your solution? It's easy to call names.

[Xipe Totec]

44. I know, let's call Aquaman!

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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65. Deleted message

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[kentuck]

69. Well, thank you.

I still did not hear an idea from you?

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

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[kentuck]

78. And who would be a qualified person?

if nobody has an answer?

[greytdemocrat]

86. Hey

You aren't interested in a debate with me. You're clearly posting FlameBait.

Good night.

[kentuck]

93. Clearly.

Good bye. I hope.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

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[kentuck]

79. Where did I say I was an expert?

But thanks for showing your true face. I will remember you at Christmas. :-)

[Xipe Totec]

82. You showed your lack of knowledge with your proposed solution

and rather than admiting it was stupid, you challenged everyone to come up with a better plan.

Contrary to popular opinion, the engineers trying to solve this problem are the elite in the field. If they are having trouble coming up with a solution, what makes you think a random collection of posters at DU have a snowball's chance in hell to come up with a better alternative?

Grow up.

[kentuck]

85. The engineers are not trying to plug the hole...

they are trying to figure out how to stop the gusher and keep pumping the oil. They are doing a great job so far, aren't they?

Grow up? I'm probably old enough to be your daddy.

[Codeine]

92. They likely can't plug the hole.

The hole is probably unpluggable in any realistic scenario. Moving the oil to the surface in a controlled manner with a dome will probably be the only solution. They've got to figure out how to beat the ice problem.

[KT2000]

34. Catch NOVA

about Mt. St. Helens.
They have excellent pics of the power of the gasses in our earth. Years past the eruptions, the dome is rebuilding with what they call spines - long lava rock that is pushed up at about 16 feet a day.

I tend to think that relieving the pressure is the only thing that would stop the oil, but that may make smaller spills - but I don't know much about this - just a guess.

[Xipe Totec]

36. Call the Dutch Boy, tell him to plug it with his finger

[doc03]

37. Park one of our nuclear subs on top of it until they get the

relief well drilled. Can they dive that deep?

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. Since the gas forms hydrates when mixed with water, it is possible to purge the water from the dome?

Other that that, I got nuthin'.

[Canuckistanian]

40. Why can't they just finish what they started?

Clear away the wreckage, hammer down a casing and fill it with cement?

[Strelnikov_]

43. Nuke it

No, just kidding. But the Soviets did it a few times.

http://trueslant.com/juliaioffe/2010/05/04/nuke-that-slick/

Komsomoloskaya Pravda, the best-selling Russian daily, reports that in Soviet times such leaks were plugged with controlled nuclear blasts underground. The idea is simple, KP writes: “the underground explosion moves the rock, presses on it, and, in essence, squeezes the well’s channel.”

Yes! It’s so simple, in fact, that the Soviet Union, a major oil exporter, used this method five times to deal with petrocalamities. The first happened in Uzbekistan, on September 30, 1966 with a blast 1.5 times the strength of the Hiroshima bomb and at a depth of 1.5 kilometers. KP also notes that subterranean nuclear blasts were used as much as 169 times in the Soviet Union to accomplish fairly mundane tasks like creating underground storage spaces for gas or building canals.

These kinds of surgical strikes to shut off underground leaks, however, were carried out only five times, with the last one occuring in 1979. And there was only one misfire, near Kharkov, Ukraine, where a nuclear blast was unable to stanch a gas leak. Happily, with a track record like that, “the chances of failure in the Gulf of Mexico are 20%,” KP writes. “The Americans could certainly risk it.”

[underpants]

52. LEGALIZE IT!!!

[TreasonousBastard]

53. I have none-- some of the most experienced engineers on the planet are...

working on it and there's nothing I can come up with that would work any better.

There is, however, a citizen science project going on where people are submitting ideas, and I heard something about a high school science class with great ideas. Gotta look around when I have time and find more about that.

[MadHound]

55. Dropping a bunch of boulders on the gusher isn't going to solve the problem,

The oil would just ooze around the boulders.

I think that the solution involving drilling another hole and injecting cement will work, and frankly we should accept that is the only solution and start doing it now. Trying these various quick fix solutions are just delaying the inevitable, and the quicker we start, the quicker we're done. Bit the bullet, accept the fact that we've fucked up the Gulf for a long while, and start to work on the real solution.

[QC]

58. Stuff the hole with BP executives. n/t

[Statistical]

59. Far too much pressure. The goal of 90 ton "dome" wasn't to contain the pressure.

If they had tried that, made the 90 ton dome water tight and tried to seal the breach the pressure would simply build up inside the dome until it shot off the pipe like a soda bottle rocket.

Remember mother nature needs about 30,000 feet of rock to keep this oil in place. The permanent solution will be to use relief well to fill primary well with MILES of concrete to seal it permanently.

The goal of the "dome"/cap was simply to have a place where oil couild pool and then be pumped to the surface.

There is nothing heavy enough to seal the pipe. 100,000 psi and 150 gallons per minute can't be contained by a 1,000 pound boulder or a 100,00 pound boulder.

Even if you could it simply would shove the pipe end into the soft sand and then oil would flow sideways through the sand until it reached the Gulf and then head to surface.

[kentuck]

64. From my limited knowledge of pressure...

If you drop a huge boulder on a hole, no matter how much pressure is coming from the hole, the pressure will either push the boulder away or it will find another way under or around the edges of the boulder. The pressure is not going to shoot the boulder straight up into the air. I think that is a misconception.

[Statistical]

72. Unless there is no other opening.

That is exactly how rockets work. If moving the boulder requires less energy than fracturing bedrock then the boulder will move.

Fill a soda bottle with some dry ice. Put it out in the sun cap facing down. The cap threads are the weakest point they will blow and the CO2 gas will force it's way out of the hole pushing the bottle 20ft+ (highest I have gotten was 80) into the air.

So your right it is possible the boulder won't shoot off the end of riser pipe. It may also instead fracture the pipe, or fracture the seal at wellhead, or leak from couple hundred other possible spots, or act like an abrasive and drill THROUGH the boulder.

The larger concept is nothing short of couple miles of solid concrete in this well is going to seal it and that will take 90+ days.

In the meantime you can't stop the oil (which is under tremendous pressure) with any small man-made weight. Mother natures weight to contain this weighs a couple million tons anything we could come up with on the surface of the ocean isn't in the right magnitude.

[kentuck]

76. Assuming the bottom of the ocean is a solid rock...

and there is not dirt or other material, then you may be right.

However, if there is a huge rock and the oil were to gush out in four different places under the huge rock, the pressure would only be a quarter of the main gusher. If those four pressure points were covered and the same thing happened again, then the pressure would decrease with each outlet of oil escaping. Does that not make sense?

[Statistical]

84. Flow rate would be 1/4 pressure would remain the same.

Sometimes physics is a bitch.

Take a water pressure guage and attach it to a faucet in your house it likely reads 50psi.
Now take a second water pressure guage and attach it to a second faucet. Both guages will still read 50 psi. :(

Still even if you could cover a square mile with boulders around the leak you can't prevent the oil from flowing sideways through the sand until it reaches a spot (1 mile away) where there is no boulder above it.

Sealing the well will require something like filling the entire well with concrete (a mile long plug) and to do that will require a relief well. BP wasn't trying to stop the oil (which is flowing under 100K psi) because that would simply be a fools errand. They were trying to move the oil because that can be done without fighting the pressure.

Say you have a firehose and it is flowing out of control and you have a plastic bucket. Trying to stop the firehouse with a plastic bucket, good luck with that. :) However instead if you could direct the firehouse into say a swimming pool then it would be contained right. However the swimming pool is going to fill up real fast so you (and hopefully couple thousands friends) used buckets to empty the swimming pool. If you could empty the swimming pool as fast as the firehouse filled it then no water would ever leak out. Could could contain the problem without trying to overcome the pressure in firehose. In the BP analog the swimming pool is the dome, the firehose is the oil gusher (at 200,000 gallons/day and 100K psi), and the bucket team is the pipe to the boat on surface.

[kentuck]

90. I understand they are trying to save the oil.

But to use your analogy of a water faucet, if you cut the flow of the water from the faucet into two different streams, would one side have 25psi and the other side have 25psi or would both stream from the faucet have 50psi equaling a total of 100psi? That was the point I was trying to make.

[Statistical]

96. Both remain 50 psi.

Technically adding them together isn't correct either. You simply say both are under 50 psi.

Here is an experiment you can verify yourself. if you have a garden faucet and attach a pressure guage to it say it reads 50 psi.

One like this:


Now say you attached a manifold on a faucet that had 4 hose openings. You attach a pressure meter to each opening.

Manifold like this:


All the open valves will read 50 psi. 1 valve open = 50 psi. 2 valves open = 50 psi on both. All 4 open = 50 psi on all 4.

Now the flow rate will drop.
1 valve open = 100% of house flow rate
2 valves open = 50% flow rate through each valve
4 valves open = 25% flow rate through each valve

pressure isn't reduced by spreading around the flow rate.

Say BP punched 50 holes in the pipe so now there are 50 streams of oil. Each one would be relatively small (for simplisitic sake say 1/50th of total flow).
Still the pressure at each hole in the pipe would be full pressure (100K psi).

Physics is working against us on this one. :(

[kentuck]

97. How come...?

when I flush the toilet upstairs, I get less pressure from my faucet downstairs?? Shouldn't the pressure have remained the same, according to your statistics? :-)

[Statistical]

100. Technically no. You get less flow rate.

The flow rate of the toilet and faucet combined exceed the max flow rate of your house. Thus one/both slow when both flows run at the same time.
However the pressure remains static. If you had a pressure guage on the sink faucet it would still show 50 psi.*

The problem with talking about pressure is people in common language use the word pressure when technically it is flow rate. A shower head that is clogged will have a really low flow rate but pressure remains the same. If you turn the faucet as close to off as possible (not dripping but tiny stream) the pressure is the same as if it was all the way on. Most times people would "think" that is low pressure when in reality it is low flow.

*Technically this is a simplification. Static pressure will remain the same however the sudden divergence of flow will create a temporary drop in presure. If you had a guage hooked up you would see it drop momentarily from 50psi down and then back up to 50psi. Still that is just a momentary event. If you held open the flapper in toiler (so it would run forever). You would notice that after that temporary blip pressure would remain at 50psi.

[kentuck]

101. And that was the point I was trying to make...

not very well, I concede. But would not the same laws of pressure apply if the flow of oil was diverted into several different streams, thus the huge boulders on the gusher?

[Statistical]

103. Sure but you could do the same thing a lot easier by punching 20 holes in the pipe.

Not sure what you think that will do.

The flow rate will reduce but the static pressure will remain the same no matter how many leak or how spread out the leak is.
Any momentary drop in pressure wouldn't be materially useful.

Remember 100,000 psi is about 100x the pressure of nuclear reactor cooling loop. :(

The simplest way to understand pressure is it exists uniformly in any system (well real world is sometimes more complex but lets simplify it).
So the oil still in the oil field is under 100K psi. The oil in the well is under 100K psi. The oil in the pipe is under 100K psi. The oil at the hole of the pipe is at 100K psi. This is why no matter how many holes you make or how much streams you divert it into the pressure at any point will still be 100K psi.

[kentuck]

107. Makes you wonder why they would drill at that much pressure...?

to begin with? This is a very deep well, it is my understanding?

[Statistical]

112. I believe it is the deepest well ever.

Also makes you wonder why the govt allowed drilling that deep BEFORE contingency plans were developed to handle a disaster involving that level of pressure?

I mean if there was already a tested solution, heating insulated dome builts years ago and tested in 5,000 feet deep water it would be one thing.

The govt allowed them to drill without any backup plan.

[kentuck]

113. Because they get political donations.

They look the other way. The need for campaign finance reform has never been more obvious.

[Electric Monk]

119. Don't have a link atm, but I read about another in development at about 6000 ft down

Google away. Sorry I forgot the name.

This is peak oil. Right here, right now.

[Ruby the Liberal]

105. That sounds like a blast. LOL!

How did you get dry ice into the bottle? I have only ever seen it in blocks.

[Statistical]

126. Crush it up with a hammer.

It only take a little bit of dry ice to make a lot of gas. One thing I forgot to say in the above post is to fill the soda bottle (2 liter) about 1/3 full of water this speeds up the conversion of dry ice from solid to gas. Drop dry ice chunks in (only takes a couple). Cap it, set it down, and run. :) Since it will launch in the opposite direction of the cap you may want to fashion come kind of stand or ramp for the rocket.

If you want to go bigger put large blocks in one of those cylinder water coolers (like you see at sports events) with push on lid then put it upside down. :) Something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4n9YESVPhA
If your cooler has a screw on lid just set body of cooler on top of lid. Don't screw it down or it likely will explode rather than launch.

[Bryn]

62. Paging God Neptune

I wish!

[Union Yes]

63. It's unstopable. Brace for global environmental ramification. This disaster will alter life on Earth

[madrchsod]

66. simple......one of these

or this one.

[Forkboy]

89. Public hanging for BP officials.

Ok, I admit that may only stop the NEXT one....

[texanwitch]

95. After they are dragged around for a few hours in the gulf.

They can drink that nice oily water.

[Electric Monk]

91. Drain the Gulf of Mexico, and then it won't be a mile under water?

Totally unrealistic, I know. Just trying to think outside the hundred ton box, so to speak.

[Motown_Johnny]

94. instead of a "dome" they should try a sleeve

that can be fit directly over/around the leaking pipe

[Statistical]

102. How would that solve the ice problem?

[Trillo]

127. Maybe the ice is the solution instead of the problem.

If ice is clogging the structure up, then why can't ice be used to clog and slow or even stop the outflow pipe?

[Statistical]

128. Pressure.

Sometimes very large numbers are hard to visualize but here goes.

The oil is under about 100,000 psi. So what does that compare too?

Blood in human body: 2-3 psi
Garden home 30-50 psi
Natural Gas Pipelines 100 psi
Firehouse 200 - 300 psi
Nuclear reactor 600 - 900 psi
Heavy industrial hydraulic system: 3000 psi

This is over 100x the operating pressure of a nuclear reactor and over 30x higher pressure than the highest pressure systems devised by man.

[Fleshdancer]

132. WOW

Thanks for the info Statistical. That's amazing.

[rug]

106. Plug it with the Board of Directors of British Petroleum.

[Mojeoux]

116. doh ! Back to the ice problem

So Statistical, is it dumb to think humans might be able to create an enormous bladder, with the same balloon-like expansion capabilities?
Given that there's freezing going on, this may be ...moot.

[havocmom]

109. Fill the hole with oily politicians and other anti-sanity/anti-environmental enablers

and throw in any pundits who have ever said 'drill baby drill' and meant it.

[gov for sale]

111. giant drywall anchor

/plug thingy.....

[Hassin Bin Sober]

117. Where is Billy Mays when you need him?

[gleaner]

120. I have no idea how they will stop it ...

It is a mile down, too deep for anything but robots and the robots cannot manipulate the valves and other machinery that needs to be moved to stop it. I don't think the boulders would do it either. It would ooze through and around them, supposing that there was some way to get them down there. It seems like we are screwed.

[TransitJohn]

121. Drilling relief wells, then filling the original well with high viscosity mud to kill it. n/t

n/t

[bamacrat]

131. Most likely the best way. n/t

[howard112211]

122. I'll go for sticking Rush Limbaugh in there.

[Prometheus Bound]

123. Get DU's 158,393 members to visualize the valve functioning and closing.

Meditation. This will definitely work.

[lumberjack_jeff]

129. That won't work.

My idea would be to put a toroid-shaped charge around the leaking pipe to explosively swage it shut.

[Fleshdancer]

130. build a time machine??

Seriously, I have no idea what can be done at this point. People have been working around the clock trying to contain this disaster, but nothing seems to work. :(

[Codeine]

133. I'm kicking this

because the "drop a rock on it" idea is surfacing again, and Statistical's straightforward explanations of why that won't cut it deserve another viewing.

[slutticus]

134. I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.