What would you think if a co-worker secretly taped your conversation and revealed it?

[HardWorkingDem]

There is an interesting piece over at the Village Voice where a police officer, by use of a hidden recording device, taped many, many private conversations and then revealed the recordings. He said he did it over his concerns over public service.

How do Du'ers feel about things like this? Over in the comment section at the VV, the comments are very pro-revelation.

Here's the link...

http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-05-04/news/the-nypd-tapes-inside-bed-stuy-s-81st-precinct/

I think such a thing raises all kinds of interesting debate over this practice.

[chillspike]

1. i've never had a conversation that i couldn't defend

if someone taped me, i could defend everything i've ever said if i was given the chance to explain...it's when people just go ahead and make a judgment without letting me defend or elaborate my statements that i feel cheated.

[Ozymanithrax]

4. The question isn't about whether you would defend what you say..

The question is about a right to privacy. Should you be free from being taped 24/7 in a public work space by anyone with a recorder and a camera?

[chillspike]

9. i don't know if you could ensure that

there are camcorders everywhere...if you're in a public place and you end up on somebody's camcorder the litigation would be too much to keep up with if everybody had a right not to be recorded.

i'm in favor of the policy of "if you voluntarily go out among people, you are leaving yourself open to being seen and recorded.."....you could argue the same thing about just being looked at...Do you have a right not to be looked at? you're opening a can of worms...

it's just easier to say, if you voluntarily subject yourself to people, there is going to be a certain amount of visibility you are going to have to accept...

if you want more privacy, you are going to have to arrange your life (buy private property, close the blinds) to afford you the degree of privacy you want at least when you arrive home.

[Ozymanithrax]

12. Didn't say you could ensure it. I just ask should you be subjected to that...

If anyone did that to me in an office at work, we would have words, and I would do my best to get his or her ass fired.

I do not secretly record people. I think it is wrong. I expect the same considertion from others.

[chillspike]

23. didn't say it wasn't wrong. it's a sleazy thing to do.

but it's just a slippery slope to say it should be illegal.

[demosincebirth]

30. You must be single.

[Ozymanithrax]

2. If you believe in a right to privacy, then what the officer did would violate what you believe in...

If the report is accurate, it also shows police malfeasance on a grand scale.

The question I would ask, how would you feel if one of the people you worked with did this to you at your job? How would you feel if students did this at school, in class, in the halls, in the bathroom, and then released the tape and video.

I think what the officer did was wrong. The ends does not justify the means.

[mike_c]

3. context matters-- I think it would depend upon whether all parties...

...had a reasonable expectation of confidentiality (assuming that the revealer was not actually obligated to reveal the conversations, say as evidence of a crime). It's never fun to be on the receiving end of such treatment, and if it happened to me I would be reluctant to share any sort of confidence with the person who revealed the conversations, but my discomfort would not automatically make the revelation wrong, I don't think.

I'm reminded of email-- there is no expectation of privacy, or at least there shouldn't be, because email can be accessed by any number of third parties with super-user authority, and that's just for starters.

[donco6]

5. I don't like it, because people say a LOT of things.

But saying something and acting on it are two different things. I think it can really malign people falsely. It's unfair.

[tblue]

6. I'd think it was 1984. Isn't that illegal?

If I wanted to live under Big Brother, I'd move to North Korea.

[EFerrari]

7. It's funny because I read that article and instead of feeling critical

about what those guys were saying, it just made me think that the money crunch is really impacting police departments and that this is how it plays out.

[bettyellen]

15. exactly! i think anyone who read the article would feel symaheitic to the street cops having no say

and being coereced into `wiriing tickets or not writing reports. it comes from the very top, the mayors office and these guys have to sacrifcie their careers if they won't go along.
you'd think anyone who works for a big corp would be familiar with this dilemmna trying to do more with less. it;s messed up that its the cops too, but it makes me angry at Bloomberg and a t Giuliiani,

BTW, do you really have tha mother in law tee shirt?!?!

[EFerrari]

18. LOL!

:hi:

[bettyellen]

25. that was hilarious!

:hi:

[Speck Tater]

8. Never say in private anything you wouldn't say in pubic. Problem solved. nt

[B Calm]

10. If you are taping dirty cops out to terrorize the public, then I'm all for it!

[jody]

11. Depending on the state's laws I may think I've won a lottery. n/t

[rug]

13. If my coworkers routinely broke the Fourth Amendment, no problem.

[WheelWalker]

14. With very limited exceptions, secretly taping

an in-person conversation by use of a hidden recording device is illegal and a crime in Oregon. That having been said, if one practices right speech, I would contemplate no harm in personam, though certainly there be harm in rem.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-vaca/index.html

[B Calm]

16. Do Oregon cops have a hidden camera in the grill of their police cars?

[WheelWalker]

20. I believe it's generally on the dashboard and, more recently,

they are wearing them. Also, IIRC, law enforcement are going to head and or weapon-mounted cameras to record shoots. That way what the cop sees when he pulls the trigger, everyone will see. One way or the other.

http://www.currypilot.com/20100317114953/News/Local-News/New-crime-fighting-tool-Wearable-camera

http://www.thegrio.com/news/san-jose-police-mount-cameras-on-officers-heads.php

Like I said, "with very limited exceptions..." As you will recall, in America, everyone's equal...except that some people are more equal than others. Law enforcement, for example, is a WHOLE lot more equal than the rest of us.

[B Calm]

24. Exactly my point. What's good for the goose is . . . .

[Mariana]

17. Did the conversations take place while they were at work

and/or using the department's communications equipment? If so, they weren't private conversations. IMO.

Also, if the law allows for recording people without informing them of that fact, these cops should know that better than anyone. Most likely they don't inform everyone that THEY record every single time if they're not required to.

[asjr]

19. I'd beat the crap out of them!

[lonestarnot]

21. Nice.

I think I'd rather just take the hammer and the hose to the taping equipment. I keep threatening my kid that I'm gona do that to his xBox 3 cause it'll be a 3 when I get done with it. :evilgrin:

[B Calm]

22. I would too if this was about some ass kisser out to get ahead, but this is different!

We/re talking about cops out to terrorize the tax payers for more revenue!

[AnArmyVeteran]

26. I won a court case by secretly taping a coworker.

A long time ago I was fired for not showing up to work for three days. I had gone to my parents who living in the country to spend the weekend and on the Saturday night their house burned down. If my Dad hadn't got up in the middle of the night we would all died in the fire. Because of a strong wing blowing the fire directly into the house it burned to the slab within 30 minutes. My parents were elderly and I stayed with them to help. On Monday morning I called and told my boss I wouldn't be working because of what happened. I called the next morning and the next. I called because that was what was required if you missed work.

But my manager claimed I didn't call one morning, so when I returned to work Thursday morning I was told I was fired.

Several days passed and I decided to call the person I talked with on the day they said I didn't call. I recorded the call from my home because it is legal to record someone without their knowledge in that particular state. I said to my ex-coworker "Hi Rodney, you remember me calling that morning of January .... didn't you?" And he answered "Yes, I know you called, but if I go against management they will fire me too, you know how they have been threatening people". That was all I needed. I filed suit against the company. I knew I had a concrete case because I had absolute evidence that I did in fact call, as per company requirements. And the tape recording I made was also damning to the company because of the fear they used to manipulate other employees with. I had a transcript produced from the audiotape and took it to court and I won.

You might wonder why a company would fire someone under such circumstances. Here's the rest of the story. A few weeks earlier I reported safety violations by the company because they were removing asbestos and not protecting workers. They were letting asbestos float all through the air without protecting workers by giving them something to protect themselves, like full body suits or respirators. Because I was trying to protect myself and my fellow workers from the potentially deadly consequences of being exposed to asbestos the company targeted me and then made up an excuse to fire me.

Any time I have a problem with a business which is acting unethically or illegally I bring out my tape recorder and start gathering evidence. And it has paid off. You'd be surprised what representative of companies will say to incriminate themselves and their companies and I am very good and setting a trap for them, so that when I present the evidence to them my case doesn't even go to court. They know they've been had and have no recourse but to do what they should have done in the first place.

I urge everyone who is being wronged by someone or a business to legally record people and then find a way to get them to incriminate themselves. Every company records you, saying it's for training or quality, but that is a damned lie. They are recording you because they are trying to avoid responsibility and they will try to get you to say something to incriminate yourself. It's a damn war out there so you have to fight on their level or you will always lose.

BTW, since my incident happened Whistleblower Laws have been passed to protect people from unsafe, corrupt and unethical companies. Conservatives were all against passage of those laws because they seem to always be against human beings and workers, and for the financial interests of the companies they are whores to. I find it unbelievable how anyone could ever vote republican.

[B Calm]

31. WOW great story. This should be the Opening Post!

[HardWorkingDem]

27. Instead of using police officers, use other groups of employees...

Think of other groups...how about teachers in a teacher's lounge; nurses at a nurses station; athletes in a locker room; high school kids in a gym; health insurance workers....the list goes on.

In the article is mentioned in NY that if one party was knowledgeable, then it was okay.

To me, it's troubling all the way around. Just imagine if you were having a conversation with a very close friend and a person with a recording device was hiding behind a locker.

And this is different than one using a company telephone or PC - on those sorts of things most people know you can be recorded or monitored.

[EFerrari]

29. I think that if you asked this question 20 years ago

people would have a different reaction because we've lost a lot of privacy during that time. Phone calls, email, even purchases and credit ratings are tracked now. It's just a different world, imo.

[Generic Brad]

28. I would think my co-worker was Linda Tripp

[ima_sinnic]

32. yes, beat me to it: ask Monica Lewinsky how she feels about it (nt)

[B Calm]

33. Read post 26

[HardWorkingDem]

34. Another aspect to consider is...

imagine if the person recording was leading those being recorded toward controversial comments or statements.

Lot of interesting replies and some not what I expected.