Please do not wish random strangers a "Happy Mother's Day".

[Withywindle]

It is NOT an unloaded, emotionally neutral holiday.

On my Livejournal and Facebook, I've had several dear friends of mine post stories about how painful it is to have strangers who don't know your personal life at all wish you a "Happy Mother's Day" out of the blue.

One tried for years with her husband to get pregnant and paid for fertility treatments for a long time, only to learn the hard way there was no hope.

One recently had a miscarriage, of a very wanted pregnancy.

One is in her 60s and had three children - now she only has two, she lost one in a car accident 6 years ago. She treasures her living kids, but always remembers the one who was lost.

One is not a mother herself, but always associated Mother's Day with good times with her own beloved mother...who was murdered in a robbery two years ago.

I am not a mother myself, and have never wanted to be, and while I respect and admire motherhood to a huge degree, I have HUGE problems with the assumption that mature woman = mother.

Please don't. Say "have a nice day" or "have a great weekend" as you always do, but don't presume to comment on anyone's family status. 8 times out of 10 it'll be fine, but that 2 out of ten, it will cut someone to the heart.

[dkf]

1. Someone apologized for wishing me happy mothers day after realizing I have no kids but

I kind of laughed it off because since I have no kids I've always associated it with celebrating my mom. Thank goodness I still have her. The older I get the more I appreciate her.

[Withywindle]

19. That's kind of where I'm at.

I feel lucky I still have my mom and she's one of my best friends. I associate Mother's Day with long, fun phone conversations with her.


I'm a terrible daughter. Really selfish. In the sense that given my druthers, I won't outlive her, because I don't want to be around to experience it when she passes on. But I know that's an incredibly evil thing for a child to wish. So I don't REALLY wish it (except in secret). In the meantime, Mother's Day is for me and her.

[a la izquierda]

81. You're not selfish, I've thought about this too...

The very thought of my mom not being around is horrifyingly frightening. Luckily, she's not old (she just turned 55).
It's funny, I only began getting along well with my mother when I moved across the country!

[LibertyLover]

104. I understand how you feel - and no, you aren't a terrible daughter-

I often said the same thing about my mom, that I didn't want to live after she was gone. I figured that I'd bury her and then put my affairs in order and commit suicide. That was my plan for years. She never knew about it, but one of my friends did. But the Gods have a way of disposing of things in a different way. I actually met a man who wanted to marry me and about a year and half before my mom died, we married. So when mom died, I had another reason to go on living. And then the Gods really made sure that I'd hang around by making sure that the Chinese government assigned us a little girl to adopt. So, my mom has been dead for 10 years and I've lived 10 years longer than I had thought I would. And because a little 7 year old, who every night looks into my face and says I love you mommy, depends on me for food, shelter, clothing, love and everything else, I guess I'll be hanging around this world a bit longer.

[pinboy3niner]

2. You'd think this would go without saying . . .

but even good people make thoughtless comments, not realizing how hurtful they may actually be.

[Withywindle]

5. Exactly. My post is aimed at people who mean well but don't always think it through.

Mean people are hopeless. I think on DU I have a good chance of reaching a high percentage of good people who would never want to hurt someone by accident.

[Lorien]

107. Yep. I have no idea why anyone wishing random women WITHOUT kids in tow a

"Happy Mother's Day" (got it twice today myself and I'm not a mother). Do we wish single people a "Happy Valentine's day"? Random individuals a "Happy Veterans day"?

[bluestateguy]

3. Not a problem for me anyway

I keep to myself and avoid talking to strangers.

But that's because I'm just not a very nice person anyway.

[Forkboy]

4. "But that's because I'm just not a very nice person anyway."

We don't agree very much, but even I call shenanigans on that one. Even if I don't agree with you I don't sense a mean spirit about you. Sure, I could be wrong (hardly be the first time), but I don't buy it. I don't get that you're out to fuck people over, which is how I judge people to be nice or not. I definitely don't agree with some of your stated positions, but I don't see a sense of meanness behind them.

You're demonstrably nicer than I, for instance, and I'm no bad guy. :)

[Withywindle]

7. So, just because you're an introvert (as am I) you absolve yourself?

This has nothing to do with that. I always say "please" and "thank you" and open doors for whoever depending on who gets there first, and am pretty willing to chat with strangers on the bus (unless they have an obvious ulterior motive and I'm pretty good at reading them, IMO).

I'm not saying strangers shouldn't exchange polite greetings and small talk with each other.

I'm just saying, please avoid addressing people you don't really know with references to "holidays" that have to do with reproductive status and family relationships. Because if you don't actually know them personally, that is potentially way too likely to cause pain to justify the "have a nice day" small talk reward.

[pinboy3niner]

8. What Forkboy said

I haven't seen a mean bone in your body. You can be passionate about issues--but that's a good thing. Perhaps I'm setting myself up here. That's okay, do your worst--I can take it. :scared:

[SmileyRose]

6. heh heh

you reminded me of a time about 15 years ago at a church we'd only attended a few weeks - when one of the men at a Mother's Day church service tried to force one of those mothers day flowers on me. Waving him off did no good, mouthing "no thanks" with a half hearted smile did no good. He wanted to argue with me on whether I was allow to refuse a flower meant for all the mothers. Finally, in front of a whole church full of people I finally told him, I have no children. I am not going to be so blessed. It's incredibly painful enough as it is, why do you insist on taking my dignity away as well. And in front of the whole church the idiot said as loud as he could - it's just a damn flower why can't you just take one? His OWN WIFE stood up, walked over to him and said to him "What the fuck is the matter with you." - GO SIT DOWN. And he did. And she took over his job handing out flowers.

I never did find out her name. We never went back there. But wherever she is God bless her.

[Withywindle]

9. Oh man...that is AWFUL.

I never wanted children...and I am actually really lucky about that, because I have endometriosis, so my chances of getting knocked up even if I wanted to would be very slim.

I would not take a Mother's Day flower...I mean, my own mom is one of my best friends, and if I lived in the same time zone as her I'd take that flower and give it to her. But I don't, so I just call her up on the phone and we talk for 2 hours. I feel lucky to be able to do that - I know too many people who have lost their mothers and still weep over the very mention of Mother's Day.

It is NONE of other people's business whether you are a mom or aren't (or, like I said in my OP, couldn't conceive, or had a miscarriage, or lost a child, or....again, NONE OF OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS.)

[tavalon]

27. That is a first

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they feel lucky to have endometriosis. I had many miscarriages and never had a live child (undiagnosed Celiac) but nowadays, being a NICU nurse, I get the opportunity to offer middle of the night cuddles to cute babies and that's way better than raising them in my own home. I call it foster love, because I do truly love those kiddos but since I know they are going home to great homes, I miss them for a day or two and then just pass that love onto the next ones.

Unfortunately, where I work, there is a Martha Stewart type who put up a bulletin board for people to post their picture with their children. I don't think any of our nurses has had infertility problems but some aren't moms, so that's kind of exclusionary. She's a kind soul, though, so I'm just letting it pass.

[Withywindle]

33. Weeelll....I only say that because I have, definitively, never wanted children.

So it IS kind of nice to be, most likely, infertile. You bet it hurts, but the comfort of knowing that I've been kind of "spayed by nature" mitigates the pain FOR ME. Because I DO NOT WANT children. FOR ME, not others, this is a feature, not a bug.

I had surgery to get cleaned out once--back in my salad days when I still had health insurance...(oh, nostalgia, I miss health coverage SO MUCH!) After that I just kept taking the pill, which helped, until the point where I hit 35 and realized that my cigarette-smoking ass shouldn't do that anymore. Now I'm just waiting out the clock. If I'm like my mom, I have at least 15 years still to go (I'm 40) which is awful but, on the plus side, she never had any symptoms, she just woke up one day and realized, 'Hell, I"m almost 60 and haven't had a period in 3 years! I guess menopause happened!'

The whole point of this is, I never WANTED a child. Still don't. Whatever biological impulse is supposed to kick in at some point, I've never felt it.

That doesn't even matter, except that, in the terms of my OP, whenever some random person says "Happy Mother's Day," it has no meaning to me except thinking of my friends who are moms--many of whom have gone through a painful road to get there--,y friends who want to be moms but can't, and my own mom. The latter is fine as long as she's alive, but I guarantee when she's gone I will go OFF on the first person who invokes her as small talk without any knowledge of me or my family.

[tavalon]

36. In my twenties I thought I didn't want children

In my thirties, that damn clock started ringing like Big Ben.

In my forties I am endlessly grateful to not have a biological child.

I suspect I was a choicer, just like you but hormones messed with my thought processes for a while.

That said, I adore children, and I have a stepchild, so who knows? I'm just glad that I can look back and say, yep, it turned out alright for me.

[Withywindle]

39. I'm 40 and I've never felt it.

If that child-wanting feeling was ever going to happen to me, surely it would have by now.

I just don't feel any warm fuzzy feelings or cuddly attraction towards babies or toddlers or any children below about 10 or so at all. I have no desire to work with them either. I'm just not interested.

edit: That's the problem I have with assuming that all mature women = mothers. Erm, no. I guarantee I never dreamed of being a mother as a little girl and that I lose no sleep over not being one now.

[tavalon]

49. I think our world could do with having more who don't want 'em

'Tis a bit overcrowded, no?

[Withywindle]

51. I'm certainly doing my part to reduce the population.

By at least, not reproducing myself.


Enter the chorus saying, 'WELL, WHO'S GONNA TAKE CARE OF YOU WHEN YOU'RE OLD?"


I dunno. I spend a fair amount of time in nursing homes as a Girl Scout and high school band member entertaining the old people. All those guys & gals had children. Didn't mean they turned out to help. Lots of 'em hadn't seen their kids in years.

[tavalon]

52. Pretty selfless reason to have kids, huh?

Unfortunately, far too few really think through their reasons to have kids. One thing I learned by becoming a mom (actually, stepmom) is it is not about me, even when I really, really want it to be about me. There are times when I miss what you have. I think the most important thing here is that you made the choice that was right for you. Pro choice isn't just about abortion. But, then, I'm preaching to the choir here, I suspect.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

91. I just got the "Survival of the Species" scolding!!

right here at DU!!

over 7 billion of us, and with all the misery going on that is symptomatic of too many of us, some people still try to clobber those of us who DON'T think babies, children and childrearing are the ultimate joy. Ugh, I can't imagine a more effective way to throw away your life and commit yourself to years of unappreciated servitude (financially and otherwise). But if you say that straight out, some people will always need to correct you.

And you are completely right, having kids doesn't mean they'll conform to your self-serving fantasy.

When I hear the, "oh you never know, such and such baby could turn out to be the next Einstien", I always say, "or the next Jeffrey Dahmer...the Bell curve works both ways".

Heh heh, guess I just don't have the romaniticized baby-worship gene either. ;)

[Withywindle]

108. I always get "BUT YOUR BABY COULD BE THE ONE TO CURE CANCER?!?"

To which the obvious answer is, "I bet your parents dreamed that about you too, once upon a time. So why aren't you in a research lab right now instead of stressing out over the most socially-prestigious kindergarten?"

Parenthood is NOT the most important job in the world. Far from it. Advanced medical research ranks much higher, and so does every job in any way related to reducing the world's nuclear arsenal. I'd also rank every job related to green, long-term-sustainable energy sources for the world above it too. War correspondents who actually tell the TRUTH about trouble spots, too, and historians who accurately record history so that the rest of us, can, in THEORY, learn from it if they study it.

I'm not dissing parents per se - I love mine. But "parenthood" is primarily a biological function, and protecting and raising your own genetic propagation isn't heroism, it's just being a mammal. Both my parents had other achievements that benefitted people other than me, which they value highly...as they SHOULD.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

109. you are so right, Withywindle

I'm with you, glorifying a biological function to the exclusion of all other human endeavor (for women, that is) incredibly detrimental to us all. Mystifying, idealizing, romanticizing it.... ugh.

Great answer to the "you should make sure all eggs are fertilized and birthed because you never know....blah blahblah..." !





also too--great nic :)

[BlancheSplanchnik]

110. you are so right, Withywindle

I'm with you, glorifying a biological function to the exclusion of all other human endeavor (for women, that is) incredibly detrimental to us all. Mystifying, idealizing, romanticizing it.... ugh.

Great answer to the "you should make sure all eggs are fertilized and birthed because you never know....blah blahblah..." !





also too--great nic :)

[KatyaR]

113. I'd recomment your post if I could.

Thank you for a wonderful quote!

[Hekate]

34. I knew just one woman like that

My former sister in law was probably secretly glad for her "female problems" that finally led to a hysterectomy, and I have never ever gotten that vibe off another woman. The problem with her was how she simply could not be honest about her utter lack of any desire to have children -- she hemmed and hawed so much before my brother married her that one of her friends finally took him aside and said it for her. Years later she had a hysterectomy for something non-cancerous and my take on it was that she was finally off the hook, and could simply cast her eyes down and sigh when asked about whether she would have kids. And I mean that.

I've known infertile women who will always have some grief inside, even though they have sensibly gone on to other pursuits. I've known many adoptees. I've known women who've had miscarriages, and also grieve. I've known women who've had abortions, and also have children they are raising, and I've known women who are quite clear about not wanting kids of their own. But my former SIL was rather unique in my experience, simply because she could not be honest with others about what she really felt, especially the man she married.

As for you in the NICU, tavalon :hug: :hug: :hug: What lucky babies those are that pass through your arms.

Hekate

[tavalon]

37. The lucky goes both ways!

But, yeah, some of the nurses are pretty burned out and do their tasks efficiently but with little emotion. I think the wee littles need affection as much as that next dose of Ampicillin. And I count myself lucky to get to provide it.

[Still Blue in PDX]

117. I wonder if SHE went back there! nt

[Aristus]

10. My mother-in-law died a month ago. This will be my wife's first Mother's Day without her own mother.

I can tell already it's going to be tough for her...

[roguevalley]

22. my condolences, aristus. hug your wife for me and tell her time

is the only help.

[Withywindle]

26. Oh, that's hard, Aristus.

I think if your wife was close to her mom, she will revert to emotional childhood for at least a little while.

Women and men alike, no matter how accomplished and brave we are, there is always a spot in our brains that, in hard times, cries out, "MOMMY!"

[Ilsa]

89. You and She have my condolences. As close as you two must be,

I suspect no one knew her like her own mother. Time will help. I lost my sweet mom back in 2000.

[liberal_at_heart]

11. I never wish anyone a Happy Mother's Day unless I know they have children

You just can't tell if a random stranger has children unless their children are with them.

[rucky]

12. That's why I always ask if they're pregnant, first.

[CommonSensePLZ]

24. -gasp- Are you calling me fat?!

Just asking "are you pregnant" can lead to misunderstandings.

[pinboy3niner]

53. I would NEVER call you "fat," even if you asked for my opinion

I might hum, whistle, change the subject, ANYTHING to avoid giving a verdict.

This brings up the related faux pas of people who, uninvited, believe they have the right to place a hand on a pregnant woman's stomach to "feel the baby". This is one of the more egregious violations of decorum (and it seems to come up a lot in advice columns and blogs). Hey, if you're pregnant, more power to you--I really don't need to violate your body to show my "appreciation".

Welcome to DU, CommonSensePLZ. We do appreciate your sense of humor here. :hi:

[tavalon]

28. LOL

Damn, eating at the computer again. Rucky, you owe me a keyboard!

[lonestarnot]

88. Spray!

:spray: :rofl:

[Withywindle]

18. thank you!

That's my whole point. Don't PRESUME.

[SusanaMontana41]

90. Let's not wish anyone anything

Then we won't have to tiptoe around the few who might be offended because our hearts are in the right place.

Given that usually I only talk to people I know, except in the grocery store checkout line, this shouldn't be a problem.

[CommonSensePLZ]

13. A few years ago I was wished a happy fathers day, I was like 15!

I didn't mind it, I was actually a little flattered a perfect stranger thought I was father material.

Only a really malicious person would intentionally wish someone like your friend struggling with fertility a happy mother's day just to hurt their feelings, but I guess that's the 'faux pas factor' of people just throwing out well-meaning wishes.

Have a happy mother's day, and if that offends you then just have a good weekend! :)

[Withywindle]

17. Hee!

Was that said by a clerk at the drugstore selling you condoms?

I really think there is a certain kneejerk impulse people are taught to wish people a HAPPY (FILL IN THE BLANK WHATEVER THE NEAREST HOLIDAY IS)". They don't mean any harm, but it is thoughtless--by the very dictionary definition of "thoughtless," meaning, no thought going into it.

It's meaningless to the speaker, but not necessarily meaningless to the recipient. And if it has the potential to really hurt a recipient, then why is it so hard to question it, think about potential harm, and just say "thank you" or "have a nice day" instead?

[SusanaMontana41]

92. So wishing someone well is "thoughtless"?

I completely, 100 percent disagree with you. But have a great day!

So go ahead, pound me all you want for defending people who are just trying to be nice. :)

[lostnfound]

23. It's not about whether it "offends"; it's about whether it hurts. A little reminder about tact

is the point of this OP. It's not about political correctness. It's about manners which involves being considerate of other people's feelings.

[Withywindle]

30. Thank you! that was my point.

It's not about being "PC" (whatever that means.)

Even if, theoretically, someone said "Happy Mother's Day" to a man out of the blue (which rarely happens as far as I know) I don't recommend that. Maybe his wife died in chilbirth --still happens, y'know, pregnancy and birth are RISKY! Maybe his mother did.

I think if medical personnel believe in "first, do no harm" (I don't actually believe they do anymore) then it isn't too much to ask of others.

[seabeyond]

14. i dont know that i have ever had anyone but immediate family wish me a happy mothers day

who... is going around wishing people happy mothers day. i have never heard it. who knows who is a mother and who isnt. silly

i think the whole to do is.... well

i dont play

[Withywindle]

15. I have a phone fundraising job

and had some lady wish me a 'happy mother's day' just this morning. I just said, 'And you too,' but in the back of my head was thinking, HOW PRESUMPTUOUS IS THAT? Because it really is.

[seabeyond]

16. really. and silly. nt

[Withywindle]

21. Yup, true. A lot of random female strangers hear a female voice on the phone

and think that "happy mother's day" is an emotionally neutral thing. NO. No, it's really not.

Nothing wrong with motherhood. Being a mother, and HAVING a mother, is an extremely emotional and primal basic element of life. And for many people, it is raw and painful for various reasons, maybe involving loss and grief and abuse and invisible disability.

Not cool to bring that up in small talk for strangers, because you never know if their personal relationship to the concept of motherhood is painful or not. That's all I'm saying.

[tavalon]

29. Welcome to every holiday

One of my partners is Jewish and I'm Pagan. But I'm also really, really easygoing.

[pinboy3niner]

48. And if a store clerk doesn't wish you, "Merry Christmas" in December . . .

it's a "War on Christmas". This issue is related to the OP, and the same common sense protocols and rules of decorum should apply. It's a matter of having a modicum of respect for those who don't fit the unjustified presumptions of the "well-wisher".

[JI7]

20. i don't think many people view it as literally woman who had children

but many view it as a day to honor many woman in their lives. mothers, aunts, teachers, etc.

but i have thought of what you have said and do wonder sometimes. it's one thing to mistakenly say it to someone without children. but when there is something painful attached to it such as children who have passed it is even worse.

sometimes i wish we wouldn't even have these days.

[tavalon]

25. Very good point

I don't celebrate the day but it isn't emotionally charged for me.

[smirkymonkey]

116. My Mother died when I was 2 1/2 in childbirth and this year a lot

of people wished me a Happy Mother's Day. Although her death was probably one of the defining moments of my life (and I don't have kids and don't want them), I really wasn't that offended or hurt. A little taken aback maybe, but I just figured it was a knee jerk reaction for most people. I guess I looked at it like they were saying "Happy Women's Day".

However, I don't get too upset about people wishing me well, even if it's a holiday I don't celebrate. But that's just me. I can see how it would upset other people.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

31. abusive mentally ill mother, here.

mother's day makes me a little ill and also mystifies me. I can't fathom what it's like to have a "motherly" mother--she was not capable of relationship at any point (I knew from infancy to stay as far away as I could from her). When she died, years ago, I was glad that I overcame my resentment so that I could be supportive and compassionate to her in the hospital. She even came the closest ever to acknowledging her behavior towards me. I've never actually missed her, though....there was no relationship to miss.

I also don't like the stereotypes about women it relies on--I've always hated being defined as "wonderful because I, as a woman, am therefore motherly", or assumptions that I want to submerge myself in childbearing and raising, just because I'm female. I hate that generic "wonderfulness" because it's syrupy and meaningless, and by its sappiness disregards individual achievements.

[boppers]

40. Violently abusive mothers are hard to appreciate.

"Mother's day", for me, is an annual, bitter, reminder of how different my childhood was, and how.... different... my reality and mindset is from those of others.

[Withywindle]

41. I'm so sorry.

Not all mothers deserve a day, it's true.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

54. We CAN get past it and find our own happiness

It took me a long time, and the long term effects were pervasive, that kind of damage sets one up for many other painful problems--
but I worked to get through the PTSD and assorted maladaptive behaviors....and I figure, I burned off a LOT of bad karma! ;)

I'm mostly pretty happy now, so that's proof--it CAN be done. But, yes, sometimes reminders come up, and I think it's good to be honest about your reactions, not stuff them down. I mean, I couldn't just sit here pretending I was on board with all the mother posts.

I pretty much don't even think of mother's day; all the threads here are more attention to it than I've given in ages.

:hug:

[boppers]

62. Still working on it, myself.

The PTSD wasn't even noticed until recently, I thought it was somewhat normal to have wake-up-screaming nightmares a few times a week, and thought it wasn't any big thing, and those who didn't were the abnormal ones.

After all, PTSD was a "warfare thing" to me, and I had never been on a battlefield, so "how could I have PTSD"?

It's a journey.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

86. I think we will always be working on it

if not combating the effects of long term trauma directly, then developing better habits and beliefs. My current challenge is changing isolation habits.

Something that helped me, including neutralizing the PTSD, was doing EFT ( www.emo-free.com ). Better results than years of conventional therapy. I contacted a professional ( http://www.missingmother.com/missingmothersyndrome.html ), though for less heavy issues you can do it on your own.

Feel free to PM me, if you want!

:pals:

[pinboy3niner]

58. I'm sorry to hear that, boppers, and BlancheSplanchnik

Thanks for pointing out that such indiscriminate "well-wishing" may not only be hurtful, but, for some, may also only serve as a reminder of awful memories of past trauma.

Perhaps you might think of it as "Hapy boppers Day" and "Happy BlancheSplanchnik Day." As a reaffirmation for you, and a validation of your feelings.

I'm not a mother or even female, but if I should overhear someone being wished, "Hasppy Mother's Day," I'll now be remembering boppers and BlancheSplanchnik.

[boppers]

63. I'll make an assumption based on your posting identity icon...

"Happy Vietnam Day" is a pretty bizarre thing to say, at least, to me.

Sure, there was some good, and also lots of bad.

Same thing as "Happy Mothers Day".

[pinboy3niner]

67. Well done, boppers--you pegged me.

Your point is well taken.

"Happy Vietnam Day" would, indeed, be weird. My state (and others) have declared a "Welcome Home Vietnam Veterans Day." And, for the occasion, we recently had an event in my community that turned out to be fantastic (even though I think we're past that and should instead be focusing on our returning OEF/OIF vets).

I am impressed to see that you are so perceptive to cite the good, as well as the bad, from that war. So many see only the bad. Yet many of us remain proud that, even in our naivete, we were willing to put our lives on the line for the freedom of an Asian people halfway around the world.

And, though it may be easy to indulge in self-pity and a sense of victimization, there are also valuable things we gained from our experience and our personal trauma.

Once, after speaking to a high school class about the war, I was asked the question, "If you had it to do all over again . . . ?" I wasn't prepared for that question, but I knew more than 60 guys who had died in Vietnam, and my answer was, if I had a magic wand, I'd wish that fucking war away. But, since I didn't have a magic wand, I could never choose not having had the opportunity to know those good, good men I was privileged and honored to know.

I realize now that there is something else I would be unwilling to give up. Through my personal psychological trauma I learned things about about compassion, and empathy. I can't help feeling that I know things that I otherwise might not have learned in a lifetime. And they are also things I would not give up.

Pardon me for using your post as an excuse to pontificate here. But I suspect we have something in common, and that you'll understand.

[boppers]

68. I have learned massive lessons.

I learned about empathy.
I learned about solidarity.
I learned about brutality.
I learned about cruelty.

Perhaps, like you, I would not give those lessons up, but I also wouldn't wish the lessons on others.

We have different scale, and different reasons....

But how do we teach this, without exposing the kids to the brutality of it?

[pinboy3niner]

73. We must teach it . . .

but merely telling our own narratives is not exposing others to the brutality. Our stories can never match the actual horrors.

I still speak to students. For the last 5 years, I've been speaking to history classes at the local JC. One difference now is that there are always students who are Desert Storm/OIF/OEF vets. They've learned things, too, even though they may not realize it yet.

The impact of one person is small. But there are MILLIONS of us, and the impact we are already having is not insubstantial.

And, who knows? We may make an impression on someone who will be a future President of the United States.

If I believed there was no hope, I might as well check out right now. Human progress advances marginally, and if our impact is only marginal, that's enough.

I still don't have that magic wand . . .

[BlancheSplanchnik]

93. awesome subthread--thank you pinboy3niner and boppers!

I have nothing to add to the eloquent posts of you both, so I'll just say:

:grouphug:

and, pinboy3niner, mind if I just call you "pin"? :D

[pinboy3niner]

97. Thanks to you, Blanche, for kicking it off

You gave us the opportunity to consider that, for some, the day we celebrate may have quite a different--and not so happy--meaning.

Your eloquence in sharing your perspective, and your insight, is what moved us to explore the points you raised.

So, thank YOU, and Happy BlancheSplanchnik Day! (and you may call me anything you like, as long as you don't call me late to dinner :))

Hugs back . . .

Love & Peace, pinboy3niner

[demodonkey]

32. Ever since I was a little girl my own mother and I have always thought of Mother's Day as...

...a sort of silly trumped-up thing to enrich the greeting card companies and make every restaurant so packed no sane person would enjoy eating out.

That said, I still always buy her a card or a balloon or something, and we never go out to eat on Mother's Day.

I have no children, never will, so if / when my mother isn't around someday it will probably be a very sad and lonely day.

[Withywindle]

38. It really is.

I have NO problem at all with the idea of a special day where everyone who's ever been born gives thanks to the woman who pushed them out. Lord knows that ain't easy.

[backscatter712]

35. Fine with me. I have little use for Hallmark holidays...

Valentines Day, Mothers Day, Fathers Day... all fake holidays designed to stir up sales for corporations...

[harun]

100. +1

[saracat]

42. People may not have children but they did have mothers and many have

or foster kids or nieces or nephews, or beloved pets to whom they are mother figures. My own mother has been dead for many years.She died young of breast cancer but I think of her fondly every Mother's Day and my husband always buys me something from our furbabies. Motherhood isn't necessarily about giving birth and I don't find that wishing anyone a Happy Mother's Day is a comment on their family status. But I guess that is because I never took it as a comment on my own.

[Withywindle]

45. Yeah, and that's my point.

For some people, the notion of motherhood is neutral or positive.

For others, it brings up extremely painful associations.


YOu can't tell by looking what anyone's story is, so why risk hurting someone for the sake of small talk?

Mother's Day is a FAMILY holiday. It's specifically for women who are happily mothers/grandmothers/aunts/mentors/furbabymamas, and their children, physical or otherwise who want to honor that day with them.

It's not for strangers. That's my point. That's all I"m saying. Don't wish some random woman you see on the street "Happy Mother's Day" if you don't know her story.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. I would probably wish random strangers a "Happy random strangers day"

Except my Mother taught me not to talk to random strangers.

Thanks, Mom!

[Withywindle]

46. I guarantee, my mom will be thoroughly thanked tomorrow.

We both have strong clashing personalities and we fight (oh yes do we fight) but really when it comes down to it, every beautiful thing I see in the world (and there are MANY) I owe to her, because she brought me here.

I know full well how lucky I am. I know others are not so lucky. Mom taught me to think of others. That's the point.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. I'm not a tree, but it doesn't bother me when someone says "Happy Arbor Day"

Nevertheless, rest assured, wishing people Happy Mothers Day willy-nilly isn't my style.

[Withywindle]

50. That's not really the issue.

The issue is, women who desperately want to be mothers and can't; women who lost a child; women who never wanted to be mothers themselves, but lost their own moms. These are the people most likely to be randomly wished "Happy Mother's Day" (I"ve never seen a store clerk blithely say that to a man, though if they did, a lot of the above still might apply.) all these are people for whom Mother's Day is not likely to be happy, no matter what some waiter says.

It's even worse than Valentine's Day for lonely single people.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Like I said, it's not something I do.

Not even when I was a store clerk.

[boppers]

65. Has a tree ever beaten you bloody?

Has a tree ever starved you?

Good on you for not being willy-nilly, but the point is that folks assume that saying "Happy Mothers Day" is benign. It's not the same as "Happy Arbor Day".

Unless, of course, trees have really messed with your life.

[tavalon]

70. Hmm, my stepmonster was mighty fond of using branches as switches

I will have to kill the next person who wishes me a happy arbor day.

:sarcasm:

[boppers]

72. That would be a disproportionate response. eom

[tavalon]

74. It was a joke actually

Clearly not taken as such. Sorry.

[Missy Vixen]

44. Not a mom and my mom's gone

This has not prevented multiple people over the years (as a matter of fact, one did so today,) from wishing me a "Happy Mother's Day". I realize I'm at the age where people probably think my kids are grown and gone.

I'll be thinking of some outstanding moms I am lucky enough to know.

[Rex]

55. I wouldn't do that ever, what if it is a mom that lost her kid(s). I'm just

happy to have a mom and one grandmother left.

[LeftishBrit]

57. I'm surprised that people would even do that...

In England, you essentially just wish Happy Mothers Day to your mother, or the mother of your kids. I agree that saying it to a random stranger is potentially hurtful.

[BlueIris]

59. That is an entirely thoughtless thing to do.

One reason I hate the massive commercialization of Mother's Day is how in your face the advertisers are regarding this holiday. That shit just makes it harder for those of us who think Mother's Day is a cause for regret, not celebration.

[JI7]

60. i just read that the woman who started Mother's Day ended up being opposed to it

because of the commercialization of it.

[tavalon]

69. I call it and Father's Day and while were at it, most of the other holidays

Hallmark holidays. I think Hallmark is doing quite well without my help. Rather funny story. My partner was talking to his mom this evening and mentioned that I don't like to celebrate Mother's Day and she told him that he needed to at least get me a card. He wisely didn't argue with her but he laughed when he told me the story because he knew I would hit the roof if given a Hallmark card.

Another fairly cute story. My stepkiddo is severely autistic and can barely write but his teachers got him to write a Mother's Day note that says Happy Mathers (sic) Day to both of my mommies. After three years, I think his teachers are finally getting over the weirdness that his biomom and I are friends and co-moms. Of course, he goes to High School next year, so we'll have a whole new crew to train, sigh.

[WinkyDink]

78. "Hallmark", because these aren't "holidays"; they are commemorative occasions.

[tavalon]

79. Nope Hallmark because the card company has created the

"necessity" of commemoration of non events.

[blueamy66]

61. Exactly.

I HATE Mother's Day.

[boppers]

64. How about "Happy Nurturing day"?

Mother's day, and Father's day, are so sour to those who suffered from bad biological parents, how about a day for those who nurture, regardless of those who breed?

I'd start here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4

[Violet_Crumble]

66. I'd never say that to anyone but my mum...

OTOH, I've had random strangers trot out the very fake and insincere 'have a nice day' line many times. I wish they'd stop it...

How do yr friends cope with all the Mothers Day cards and ads for really bad music like Michael Buble in the weeks leading up to Mothers Day?

[tavalon]

71. Thank you again for starting this lively conversation

It's been an eye opener for me and I hope a few others. I never realized how fraught with pain this holiday could be.

[blondeatlast]

75. When buying our first home, we bought from a young couple--I had my child just a few months earlier.

When we met them, she asked about my son; I went on and on about how thrilled I was--I was not expected to be able to have a child after lifelong diabetes.

When we got in the car, our realtor (who didn't know about the coversation) mentioned that she had just lost her child after 4 months of carrying. I was so upset I sent her a card. She was nothing but gracious, but I will never forget it.

Excellent advice, Withyindle. Thank you for the reminder.

[Vinca]

76. Thank you for your post. Mother's Day is the one day of the year

I avoid all stores. I'm afraid the next time a clerk wishes me a "Happy Mother's Day" I'd tell her I'm not a mother and it isn't all that happy for my mother who died of colon cancer in 1958 when I was 8 years old.

[WinkyDink]

77. It's bizarre to do this. It is for one's own mother, not just any woman on the planet.

[Gin]

80. being a mother is not just giving birth....if you have ever had a husband

or a pet or others in your life.....chances are you have experienced motherhood..

(IMO)

[Berry Cool]

102. I sure hope not. I wouldn't want to have to "mother" a husband.

I want a husband with whom I can have a mature adult relationship--no mothering necessary.

I don't have kids and am getting to the age where it's beside the point whether I want them or not. That's OK, because I don't have an urge to become a mother and don't feel I "need" to. If I ever were to become one it would be through stepmotherhood or maybe adoption if I'm ever in a financial place to do it, but it would most likely be with an older child. This will sound strange, but I've never been crazy in love with the idea of caring for a baby or toddler.

I plan to change careers in a way that will put me in contact with children, but that's not because I feel I have missed out not being a mother, it's just because I'd like to help kids.

[pipi_k]

82. For those without moms...

or those whose hearts ache in advance over the loss of their moms someday...


An idea...


You can never have another birth mom, but you can have an "adopted" mom. I'm sure there are many women in nursing homes who either have no children of their own, or have children who don't visit them.

Adopt one.

Or just ask the staff...they'll know...which woman there might need some flowers and a nice card on Mother's Day. Maybe even a little picnic lunch or something.


Be kind to a lonely person, and enrich your own life in the process.

:loveya:

[cbdo2007]

83. I don't even make a big deal about my stepmom on Mother's day.

I just get a card and see her like a few days later and give it to her and that's it. I've got to draw the line somewhere so I've drawn it at just natural mom and natural dad, both of whom raised me until my teens. I just can't keep up though if they want to get married and divorced all the time and act like just cause they're my step-dad or step-mom that I respect them for being one of my 4 Moms throughout the years.

[tanyev]

84. Yep. Grocery store check out clerk wished me a Happy Mother's Day

as he handed me my receipt yesterday. I am childless by choice--I don't have the emotional pain attached to it that so many upthread have related, but I find it incredibly annoying. I just took my receipt and didn't say anything. Maybe I should have.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

94. maybe I'll make a "Don't Assume I Like Children" tee shirt!

I've always hated that stereotype that all women crave mommyhood. Blecch! I hate all this Mom this and Mom that, as if women have no existence as talented innovative individuals separate from their reproductive status.

I never even liked baby dolls or playing mommy when I was a kid.

[Lorien]

106. +1. nt

[Violet_Crumble]

118. Maybe you could put 'I falsely assume all mothers like children!' on the back!

What makes you think that just because someone's a mother that they like children? I dislike them even though I'm a mother. The only person who refers to me as 'Mom this and Mom that' is my daughter, and if anyone's got a problem with that, screw them coz it's none of their business when it comes to the relationship between my child and I. The other area where there's an overlap is at work, where they get serious about this thing called work/life balance and take into account that parents (that's fathers just as much as mothers) have to stay home sometimes and look after sick kidlets or leave early to pick them up, etc. I don't see that as invasive or not acknowledging that us parents are 'talented innovative individuals' - it's being pragmatic and making our work environment more flexible....

[SnohoDem]

112. I had that happen on Father's Day a couple of years ago

The young man then asked, "Are you a father, sir?"

My response was, "Well, I hope not."

I'm 54, childless by choice, but was a young man once and traveled a lot...

I think Mother's Day is much more emotionally charged than Father's Day. It was for myself and my wife at least. Even though she also chose to remain childless, she was much more disturbed by such greetings, recognitions in church, etc. than I was. I do think there's _such_ an expectation of women to be mothers, and an implication that they somehow 'failed' if they aren't. I don't understand that attitude in any reasonably educated society. Our number one problem is overpopulation, and whether one has children or not should be irrelevant - in fact, Octomoms and the Duggers and Full Quiver (or whoever those people are who have as many kids 'for Christ' as possible) should be ostracized, not celebrated. The gene pool is big enough. They are not making a contribution.

[Froward69]

85. It has burned me for 25 years now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8300427

[Poll_Blind]

87. I used to wish random men "Happy Father's Day" and I stopped because most of...

...them responded with panicked "What do you know?!" looks. Just kidding of course.

I agree. It never occurred to me to offer Mother's Day greetings without understanding their situation pretty well.

It is akin to asking an obese women "when is the baby due?". Just...don't, unless you know.

PB

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

95. Happy Mother's Day, everyone!

n/t

[Cleita]

96. I remember a restaurant my DH and I went to that gave a complimentary carafe of

wine to women on mother's day for their table. It really made someone like me, who wasn't a mother, feel left out.

[bobbolink]

98. Thank you for reminding people what they should know. My son was kidnapped, and

Mother's Day has been real hell for me.

It was the beginning of all the health problems I have, which led to disability, which led to homelessness.

People need to understand. They don't have to care... we don't have a caring society... but they need to develop a bit more sensitivity.

[K8-EEE]

99. I dear friend of mine who is sad she never had kids and lost her mom

Literally goes into hiding on Mother's Day -- she always wanted to have a lot of kids but due to relationships that didn't work out, finances, demanding jobs etc., she never did have them. Her mom died a few years ago. Last year she said to me -- you know what, I'm not a mother and I don't have a mother and I'm really starting to HATE mother's day.

[LiberalEsto]

101. Mothers' Day was the last time I saw Mom

It was 1975, and she was on dialysis for kidney failure. I drove home from college for the weekend to see her. I gave her a card and a gift and some violets and lilies-of-the-valley that I'd picked for her.

Two weeks later, she was gone.

I have had a hard time with Mothers' Day ever since then. Having nobody to buy a card for, and so on.

My two daughters have often forgotten Mothers' Day over the years, although the older one at age 26 is getting more thoughtful. She and her boyfriend took me and Dave out to dinner last night, and she gave me a card.

The younger one called this afternoon (I was asleep - fighting a cold) to wish me a happy Mothers' Day. She told my husband that she was spending the day sticking close to her boyfriend, whose mother died on Mothers' Day when he was 13.

[unlegendary]

103. Mothers and "friends"

I don't say it to strangers. I have no idea who they are or their status and owe them nothing.. Also I don't call people "friend" just because I have read a few posts they have written. I reserve that term for people I KNOW will be there for me and not just anyone with fingers to type with.
This year (well the past 5 or 6 years) I have been a caregiver for an elderly woman who had 3 kids who all live within 20-30 miles. She's heavily in debt to banks, her house has been reverse mortgaged and she's flat broke. I can't work because of illness so on this mothers day she called all her kids to ask for some help and was turned down by all 3. Happy freakin mothers day, huh?
She called all 3 to tell them she's going hungry, but I guess their own problems always trump mom. Strangely all told me to just tell them if she ever needed anything to just call.. That's a joke because I knew when they told me they were lying.
My own kids have no internet access and live 1000 miles away and I know they have nothing anyway so I can't ask them so we'll go without. My own mother passed on 18 years ago so this old woman, all but completely ignored by her own is the one I now call mom and I'm the only one who said 'happy mothers day" to her with any conviction. I had nothing to give her but a hug and a kiss on the forehead and reassurance we'll make it somehow.
Tomorrow I go to pawn shops against her wishes, but it's pawn or slow starvation.. Not much of a choice is it? Happy whatever day.

[1620rock]

105. ...sigh, too much PC here, have a good life.

[Courtesy Flush]

111. Let's just not talk to each other at all.

There's no end to what an innocent remark can do, so let's just abandon all social interactions.

Honestly. I have no intention of celebrating my birthday this year because it will be the first anniversary of the suicide of someone who was dear to me. But that doesn't mean that I'll be offended by people who tell me "happy birthday."

It's not other people's responsibility to guard your feelings against the most innocently intended greeting. I'm 50 years old and have no kids, but if someone wishes me a Happy Father's Day, it won't hurt my feelings. If it DID hurt my feelings, it still would not be THEIR fault. Let's keep people's intentions in mind.

[Book Lover]

114. For those dumping on Withy, shall we see what Miss Manners has to say on the subject?

http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/05/09/1044731/this-was-not-her-day.html

Dear Miss Manners: I am a 30-year-old single woman without children. Two days ago, I received a “Happy Mother’s Day” e-card from an older couple who attends my church. I am the prayer coordinator at my church, so, this couple frequently e-mails me with their prayer requests, but I have never met them in person.

The fact that I am 30, unmarried and childless is a very sensitive issue for me because I do not foresee myself getting married anytime soon, and I couldn’t have children if I wanted to.

How can people whom I’ve never even met just assume that I am married with children when this isn’t the case?

Although I am highly offended, I would like to respond in a way that doesn’t offend these insensitive people. How should I proceed?

Gentle Reader: When a chummy salesman once had the cheek to address Miss Manners’ own dear mamma as “Mother” (“Now, Mother, wouldn’t you like this?”) she gave him a sweet smile.

“I’m afraid you have made a ghastly mistake,” she said kindly. “If I were your mother, I am quite sure I would remember you.”

You are welcome to use a version of this, returning the card to the senders with a note saying that you hope that their mother was not disappointed when this was misdirected to you.

But Miss Manners has observed that over the last decade or so, Mother’s Day has been transformed into a sort of general Ladies’ Day.

The original idea was to honor one’s own mother—as if one shouldn’t properly do that every day of the year—but now the obligation seems also to fall on husbands, grandparents—anyone with a mother in the family.

Or not. These were strangers, making a blind guess and then faking intimacy and sentiment. No doubt they felt virtuous in doing so, as if it would make your day to be “remembered” by those you have never met.

Nevertheless, you should not take this intrusiveness personally. People who do not respect personal boundaries are not likely to be targeting you alone.

With their scattershot approach, they could well hit not only non-mothers but mothers who are bereaved or estranged from their children.

If Miss Manners is concerned with one's well-intentioned words hurting the feelings of strangers, then I am as well.

[fatbuckel]

115. Just because Livejournal and Facebook are wildly popular it does not make it right

so try not to be hurt by what others say on Sheepbook.