25 years ago: Black radicals massacred by Philadelphia police

[Hannah Bell]

On May 13, 1985, the Philadelphia Police Department dropped a four-pound bomb on the roof of a row house where a group of black radicals and their families lived. The resulting fire burned 61 homes, an entire city block, and took the lives of 11 people, among them 5 children and the leader of the MOVE group, John Africa.

Police ostensibly surrounded the building due to “noise complaints.” City officials claimed that after MOVE members failed to emerge from the building, police had no choice but to fire tear gas canisters and water cannon. They then claimed that gunfire emerged from the house. Police responded by firing thousands of rounds, in a volley than lasted for about 90 minutes. After this, a helicopter dropped the bomb on the building.

A jury eventually found the city guilty of unreasonable use of force and unwarranted search and seizure, forcing it to pay $1.5 million to survivors.

MOVE advocated self-sufficiency and embraced a pan-Africanist identity politics. It campaigned energetically on behalf of nine members who had been convicted for the 1978 shooting death of a Philadelphia policeman, who was likely killed by friendly fire in another military-style attack on MOVE. One of the group’s best known supporters—though not a member—was the journalist Mumia Abu Jamal, who was framed up and sentenced to die for the death of a Philadelphia policeman in a 1981 shootout.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/may2010/twih-m10.shtml#top

[AllentownJake]

1. To be fair

It was a Black Mayor that ordered the bomb to be dropped.

[Hannah Bell]

2. so? it was a white president who ordered the move on waco. your point?

[AllentownJake]

6. The title is misleading

This was a group that was blocking off roads and shooting at police. There were other socio-economic things going on that were in play, however when a group takes to shooting openly at police the response is going to be easily predictable.

I'm from this area of the country. This group was not one of the good guys.

If a group of Tea Party people took over a city block and started shooting at Federal Agents...I think the response would be easily predicted.

[Hannah Bell]

7. "shooting at police" - sez the police. There was no shooting until police attempted to

evict them, & as for who started the shooting, neither you or I know the truth.

The fact is, the police dropped a bomb on them & incinerated 11 people, 2 survivors.

Not to mention burning down an entire city block.

Mayor W. Wilson Goode soon appointed an investigative commission called the PSIC or MOVE commission. It issued its report on March 6, 1986. The report denounced the actions of the city government, stating that "Dropping a bomb on an occupied row house was unconscionable."<12>

In a 1996 civil suit in U.S. federal court, a jury ordered the City of Philadelphia to pay $1.5 million to a survivor and relatives of two people killed in the incident. The jury found that the city used excessive force and violated the members' constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure.<11>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE

[msanthrope]

24. What utter crap....they had a sniper's nest on the roof---

and the neighbors asked the police to do something about the constant bullhorn sermons and the random shitting about the neighborhood.

MOVE was despised by their African American neighbors....and not a single neighborhood in Philly wants those crazy motherfuckers.

That's why they all live in rural Jersey.

I'm guessing that since your defense of the Peeping Toms of the Lower Merion SD didn;t pan out, you've decided that MOVE is more sympathetic????

Jeebus....

[Mojeoux]

40. They wiped out the last of the SLA in LA in a similar manner.

The SLA were assholes and the MOVE were not popular either. But when the authorities kill innocent kids in stupid collateral damage situations, it is unacceptable.

Unacceptable then and now.

[Hannah Bell]

43. the sla wasn't bombed from the sky that i remember.

[Mojeoux]

57. No. but the LA police burned them to death.

It was gruesome.

[msanthrope]

47. I'm not defending the killing of kids---but let's hold MOVE responsible for not

taking the option of releasing the kids.

Were the Philly police stupid??? Of course. Doesn;t mitigate the choices MOVE made.

[jberryhill]

72. Oh, really, what killed James Ramp in 1978?

I guess he shot himself in front of the MOVE house in Powellton Village.

[era veteran]

11. The reason for the Philadelphia Air Force bombing were the weapons

they 'had' . I 'm trying to remember but I believe they found a pistol and a shotgun. Not the arsenal they said Mr. Africa had acquired. Overkill to say the least. I call bullshit.

[robin84]

12. ditto

the point is this was a black-on-black crime and the mayor should have been prosecuted. It was not like Waco.

[Hannah Bell]

16. what the hell are you talking about?

[marmar]

27. All the police that killed them were black?

WTF ARE you talking about?

[msanthrope]

32. The neighbors who demanded the cops remove them certainly were....

What people like to forget is that the entire neighborhood hated MOVE--and lead the charge to have them evicted because of the utter disorder they brought to the neighborhood.

MOVE never had the courage to move to a neighborhood where there were other than poor African americans to victimize.

[Hannah Bell]

38. do the police typically use bombs when they evict people?

do the police typically use bombs when they try to oust shooters?

oh, & btw, powelton village wasn't a neighborhood of mostly "poor african americans".

"In the 1960s the Village was home to many members of the counterculture movement, and Powelton today enjoys a strong political activism and anarchist tradition, as well as a healthy multiethnic pluralism."

"Powelton Village at the time was a heavily-black neighborhood that was fending off the gentrification advances of Drexel and the University of Pennsylvania; it was with this obvious intrusion against the MOVE belief that “all living things, beings that move, are equally important” that MOVE began to agitate for change. This agitation would eventually bring a bomb down upon MOVE, in a typical bout of police over-action that killed 11 citizens of the United States in 1985."


hint: powelton right next door to drexel university, white students were also residents, as well as some white homeowners.

[July]

66. They were not in Powelton Village at the time of the bombing.

As the Wikipedia article you link to elsewhere notes, they moved to Osage Ave. in West Philly after having lived in Powelton Village previously, and the bombing took place on Osage (different part of West Philly than Powelton Village was, though they are not too far from each other). The Osage neighborhood was mainly African-American at the time, with some Penn students (mainly renters) mixed in.

[Hannah Bell]

70. you're right, i mixed the 70s & 80s.

[era veteran]

14. To be fair it was a Rizzo trained police dept.

[fishbulb703]

3. Why wouldn't MOVE embrace an "American identity" politics?

Flame suit, ON.

[Beaverhausen]

4. I lived in Philly at the time. I could hear gunfire all day long

[msanthrope]

19. MOVE had a sniper's nest on the roof of their Osage Ave building---

that they surrounded with gas cans.....

Yes. That stupid.

[Hannah Bell]

20. bull-shit.

[msanthrope]

30. Here's a picture of it--reprinted from the Times---

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/MOVE-Phihladelphia-BombNYT14may85.htm

I'm sorry the Lower Merion case isn't panning out for you--but do you really think it helps to rile up the Philly residents with this crap????

[Hannah Bell]

35. "pillbox-like structure". there was something on the roof, no evidence

it was a "snipers nest", & no evidence of ANY SHOOTING PRIOR TO THE POLICE ASSAULT.

There were a total of 7 adults in the entire building, at least two of whom were women, with 6 children.

THEY DROPPED A FUCKING BOMB ON THEM.

[Dreamer Tatum]

36. Sadly, you're wasting your time

Some people have such romantic delusions of the past that they can't deal with actual facts.

[msanthrope]

41. I know it--this poster defended the Lower Merion SD and their Peeping Toms--now it's MOVE. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

42. my delusional = the philly police bombed a home where 6 children & 7 adults lived, &

destroyed an entire city block, 60 homes, in the process.

i must have imagined it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

46. No, but you are imagining their complete innocence

They had a SNIPER NEST. There were PICTURES OF IT.

But whatever - enjoy your delusion.

[Hannah Bell]

49. show me where i state any belief in anyone's "complete innocence".

the fact is, the police DROPPED A BOMB ON A HOUSE WHERE 7 ADULTS LIVED WITH 6 CHILDREN, BURNING DOWN 60 HOUSES IN THE PROCESS.

There were 5 or fewer men in the house, & there had been no shooting prior to the police assault on the property (which was owned by the family of some of the residents).

The fact is that what you are calling a "snipers nest" = a structure on the roof, & THERE HAD BEEN NO, NONE, NIL, ZERO, SHOOTING PRIOR TO THE POLICE ASSAULT.

Thus the bombing was not motivated by the existence of any "snipers nest". Nor does the existence of a sniper typically lead to the dropping of bombs in normal police procedures.

[era veteran]

58. How many and what kind of weapons were found after the fire?

Snipers my ass! Bullshit on this. These people were bombed by the racist Rizzo police. This was a fucked up police department. Rizzo was a cop in the 40's rising to police commissioner for 1967-1971, then becoming a two term mayor through 1979. This still was his P.D. Don't bullshit history. Baby killers.

[ConsAreLiars]

5. Thank you. The reichist wing will whine and try to excuse the massacre,

(the unstated subtext is that "who cares, it was just a bunch of unsubmissive niggers") but it was what it was, as determined by a jury. From your OP: "A jury eventually found the city guilty of unreasonable use of force and unwarranted search and seizure, forcing it to pay $1.5 million to survivors."

[David__77]

8. Long live MOVE!

Those martyrs are not forgotten!

[Jack_DeLeon]

9. I read about them a while back, they arent forgotten but got what they deserved...

although the everyone else who had their property destroyed surely did not.

[Liberation Angel]

15. Children, mothers and others murdered by the police "got what they deserved"? WTF

shame on you and shame on the police.

This was mass murder. No one deserves that. Ever.

[era veteran]

59. They deserved the Philadelphia Air Force dropping a bomb on babies?

A FOUR # block of C-4 dropped on a residential building in a city? This shit on DU? Who are you people? Fucking baby killers.

[msanthrope]

Martyrs???? Please. n/t

[msanthrope]

18. Martyrs???? Please. n/t

[-..__...]

25. MOVE = martyrs...

Branch Davidians = Anti-government lunatics who bit off more than they could chew..

[superduperfarleft]

65. Oh lawd....

[Raine]

10. I remember when this happened

sometimes it seems like something I imagined because it's never mentioned, seems to have been all but forgotten.

[blindpig]

13. k&r

That the mayor happened to have been black makes no matter, just as that we have a black president makes no matter, they didn't get to where they got by not being in the man's pocket.

[msanthrope]

17. What an utter load of crap---pure horsehit.....

What your poorly-sourced article fails to mention is that is was the neighbors of MOVE---the poor, African-American neighbors of move who called L&I and the police after being constantly bombarded by bullhorn harangues and piles of shit. Literal, shit.

Imagine living next to neighbors who didn't believe in indoor plumbing, and who took shits in the back yard of a rowhouse....

Neighbors stupid enough to surround their sniper's nest on the roof with oil drums filled with--gas.

There's a reason MOVE had to move to a New Jersey rural compound---not a single Black neighborhood in Philly wanted these filthy cultists anymore.

The ghost of John Gilbride cries for justice.

[Hannah Bell]

22. bullhorn harangues are definitely a reason to bomb people. i've been sorely tempted in that

direction myself.

hey, thanks for your little history lesson, but i actually already knew of the information you pretend is revelatory & justifies bombing children.

[msanthrope]

26. The bomb was an attempt to take out the sniper's nest--MOVE was stupid enough

to actually put oil cans filed with gas on the roof, surrounding the sniper's nest.

Yes. That stupid.

The Philly police assumed (wrongly) that the oil cans were filled with sand, to bunker the sniper's nest....

I mean, who is really stupid enough to shoot at cops from behind cans filled with gas???? MOVE.

Hey--you shoot at cops who are there to serve a lawful eviction notice because your neighbors are tired of you shitting all over the neighborhood, and waking them up at all hours with a bullhorn, and crap's gonna happen....

MOVE could have let the kids out, but they chose not to.

Again--the ghost of John Gilbride cries out for justice....as you defend murderers.

[Hannah Bell]

28. correction: that was the lie the police/state told to justify the bombing.

there was no "snipers nest".

11 people died, 2 escaped. 5 of the people who died were children, & one of those who escaped was a child.

there were 7 adults in the house total. at least 2 of the adults were women.



In 1984 Wilson Goode became mayor, then quickly reneged on his earlier promise and took no action as another confrontation with MOVE took shape. Anticipating how far the City would go to silence them, MOVE began fortifying their rowhouse at 6221 Osage Avenue in the Cobbs Creek section of West Philadelphia.

At the same time, police made preparations for a murderous assault by secretly obtaining from the FBI over 37 pounds of C-4, a powerful military explosive, although this violated police regulations, FBI policies and federal law regarding transfer of explosives.

Media suddenly began covering MOVE again, focusing on Osage Avenue neighbors' disagreements with MOVE rather than MOVE's longstanding legal dispute with the City. MOVE held a meeting with neighborhood residents in May, 1984 to explain their position and police stepped up their campaign of intimidation and harassment.

Between June and October Alfonso Africa was arrested and beaten bloody several times by police. On August 8, 1984, hundreds of police and firemen spent the day surrounding the Osage block in what came to be viewed as a dry run for the later disaster, but MOVE would not be provoked. MOVE told negotiators they wanted at least one official to honestly investigate the unjust jailing of MOVE members, but officials and the media ignored this.

On May 11, 1985, Judge Lynne Abraham signed arrest warrants on charges of disorderly conduct and terroristic threats. On Mother's Day, May 12, police evacuated the 6200 Block of Osage Avenue and towed away parked cars.

On Monday, May 13, 1985, police and firemen launched a full scale military assault on the MOVE rowhouse using tear gas, water cannons, shotguns, Uzi's, M-16s, silenced weapons, Browning Automatic Rifles, M-60 machine guns, a 20mm anti- tank gun, and a .50-caliber machine gun. Some of these weapons were illegally obtained with the help of the U.S. Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Agency.

Between 6:00 and 7:30 am police fired over 10,000 rounds of ammunition at the house knowing there were women and children inside. They also tried to blast through the walls with the military explosives the FBI had illegally provided. When none of these measures succeeded in driving MOVE from the house, a state police helicopter was used to drop a bomb on the roof. This started a fire that officials deliberately allowed to burn, burning down the entire block of some 60 homes.

MOVE members repeatedly tried to exit but were met with police gunfire which killed some of the adults and children in the alley behind the house. Six adults and five children died.

Also on May 13, 1985, police in Chester, PA in cooperation with Philadelphia, used tear gas to storm the Chester home of Alfonso Africa. The only adult present, his wife Mary, was arrested and their 5 children were taken away as police ransacked the house.

http://www.eco-action.org/dt/20yrs.html

[msanthrope]

29. There was a sniper's nest--and a million Philly residents remember the footage of the 'pillbox'

that MOVE had constructed on top of the house...

In fact--here's a link to a picture of it, reprinted from the NYT

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/MOVE-Phihladelphia-BombNYT14may85.htm

You may lie about what they had on top of the house, but the people who lived here--including the entire neighborhood of Powellton Village, don;t share your romantic delusions.....

MOVE is hated in Philly--by everyone.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=950&dat=19850803&id=EegLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=b1kDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6835,642035


I'm sorry you lost out on the Lower Merion Case, and have decided to rile the Philly residents with this tripe--

[Hannah Bell]

33. there was no snipers' nest. the photo you link is called a "pillbox-like structure".

1) there is no record of any shooting before the police cleared the entire neighborhood in preparation for their assault, from the "pillbox-like structure" or anywhere else, & neither you nor i know who started shooting that day.

2) it's known the police fired hundreds of rounds, used explosives, & dropped a bomb. evidence for gunfire from the other side is almost entirely absent, & only a couple of weapons were found.

3) there is no evidence that the "pillbox-like structure" was a "snipers nest" as you deem it.

4) there were only 7 adults in the entire house, at least two of whom were women. there were 6 children in the house.

5) *I* didn't "lose out" in the merion case, i have no connection whatsoever to the merion case, & your only reason for bringing it up here is to defame.

6) please forgive me if i disbelieve your testimony that everyone in philadelphia "hates move".

[msanthrope]

as I said---your defense of the Lower Merion School District brought the

scorn of every single Philly poster....

So now you are trying out a defense of MOVE.....

Wow....

[Hannah Bell]

61. as i said: delusional, smear, & bringing other threads into an ongoing one = violation of DU rules,

[superduperfarleft]

63. "please forgive me if i disbelieve your testimony that everyone in philadelphia "hates move". "

:rofl:

[jberryhill]

73. This was the only thing on WPVI and every other philly channel that day

Practically ANYONE in the Philly area remembers the day quite well.

The house was full of shit, and surrounded by shit, was fortified with logs over the windows providing a classic archer's aiming position. They had engaged police in a gunfight in 1978 for which nine of the group were convicted of murder.

I don't care what you call the structure on the roof. We all saw it, all day long, and regardless of what you think it was, WTF was gasoline being stored up there for, you think?

They had all morning and afternoon to get out of there. After refusing lawful entry, and refusing to come out, water cannons were used, and they still refused to negotiate. YOU tell me who was keeping the women and children in the house BEFORE Goode made the stupid decision to take out the roof structure with an explosive - yes STUPID decision - but these people had every opportunity to negotiate.

[era veteran]

60. My neighbors have barking dogs. Those fuckers are going down.

Shit & bullhorns equal a good reason to bomb people? Where does a city police department get C-4 Anyway? Never was a god damned sniper nest on the roof. Baby killers. Bullshit street justice carried to an extreme and defended by you.

[superduperfarleft]

64. I don't see anyone defending the actions of the police dept.

All I see is an attempt to correct the myth that MOVE were some sort of martyrs that should be praised by the left.

[jberryhill]

74. Correct - the police utterly got this wrong

And I never understood why they didn't turn the water cannons back on.

[jxnmsdemguy65]

21. MOVE retrospective...

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/93137669.html

[-..__...]

23. “I just want to know one thing...

Does this mean MOVE won’t get its security deposit back?”

-- David Letterman.

:rofl:

[msanthrope]

31. I'm guessing with the Lower Merion School Case going to crap, you've

decided that this is how you are going to rile up the Philly posters???

Christ, you are transparent...

[Hannah Bell]

34. christ, you are delusional....

[msanthrope]

39. Nah, I've just got your number---Defending MOVE in order to make up for Lower Merion....

WOW.....

[Hannah Bell]

45. make up whatever shit fits your delusions, delusional one.

[msanthrope]

48. Hannah, you are the one defending peeping toms and people who shit in other people's yards within

the space of a week...

That's just a fact...

[Hannah Bell]

50. i don't argue with delusional ones....enjoy your delusions

[Firehawk]

37. As a Philly resident

I was talking with an African-American about why their community never seemed to be outraged by the MOVE massacre. He reminded me that the Osage Avenue neighborhood terrorized by MOVE terrorized was primarily black. As a result, they never had any sympathy for the MOVE organization. Found that interesting.

If anyone reads the retrospectives in the Philly Daily News and Inquirer, there are stories of their children stealing food out of their neighbor's garbage cans, chasing an African-American woman down the street with a meat clever. One African-American resident gives an interview about how he tried to talk to John Africa about the bullhorn blaring all hours of the night at decibel levels so loud his house shook. He said Africa threatened to kill him. And the bullhorn just got louder. Kids were taking a sh--t in the back yard of the houses.

There is also an interesting story about a Philly cop saving the only two people who escaped the carnage. I hope the OP reads these articles and becomes more informed about MOVE and how terrible they really were. The articles posted in the original thread are ill-informed to downright inaccurate.

They didn't deserve what happened to them, but they were BY NO MEANS innocent victims. I can't believe anyone has sympathy for them.

[msanthrope]

51. The only people with sympathy for MOVE are people who never actually lived in Philly....

They live in rural New Jersey now--apparently, the West Philly neighbors got a little tired of the kids running around naked and crapping in other people's yards.........

[Hannah Bell]

52. the story about the philly cop rescuing the survivors is denied by the survivors.

and the "ignorant" articles you mention are written with information furnished by the survivors.

but of course, police accounts are always more truthful than the accounts of weird cultists & nobodies. as we all know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8GRwgIKVN8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ2cLyblhpc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfNqeVPNgvU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJaAe7sYoCA&feature=fvw

[msanthrope]

53. Poor Birdie Africa---he was abused horribly by MOVE...

"But it would take more than a new name to enable Michael to begin a normal life. "Birdie" had existed almost as a wild creature in the MOVE house, not unlike the countless dogs, cats and rats that lived there. According to the philosophy of John Africa—formerly Vincent Leaphart, a grade-school dropout—eating cooked food was "impure." So the children's meals consisted solely of raw fruits and vegetables, occasionally with raw, often decaying, chicken or fish thrown in. (The adults seem mostly to have honored the rules in the breach, since Michael tells of the children being punished for stealing cooked food from their elders.) Neighbors sometimes took pity on the MOVE children and left food after seeing them pick through garbage.

Although they drove cars, listened to radios, ranted over amplifiers and brandished guns, MOVE members shunned such modern conveniences as refrigerators and toilets. Neighbors complained about the powerful stench from the group's house as rotting food mingled with human and animal waste in the backyard. MOVE men urinated from the upper-floor windows. The children, ill-clothed or naked and caked with grime, often slept on the roof. "Birdie" did not know what a toothbrush was.

Forbidden books, TV or movies, Birdie's principal entertainment was running through a nearby park or helping the MOVE men construct a bunker atop the house. He never went to school and could not read, write, count, tell time or name the days of the week."

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20092327,00.html

I'm glad he finally got a settlement from the city....it's not like MOVE was gonna help.

[Hannah Bell]

55. because most of them were DEAD. Thanks to the philly police.

yes, the home looks so *squalid* doesn't it:



birdie looks so miserably unhappy, so malmourished:



the kids are all so skinny:





some move kids today:



i'll bet they're "terribly mistreated" too.

i'll bet they don't brush their teeth.

bomb them.

[Raineyb]

56. I tend to sympathize with people who have bombs dropped on them. NO ONE deserves to have that.

And didn't the city have to pay for murdering all those people in that house?

[ultracase24]

44. Good Article

thanks kick and R

[struggle4progress]

54. I lived in Pennsylvania when that happened. The initial "WTF!? The police burnt down a city block!"

pretty quickly became "Feh! A plague on them all!" There was no way to do any serious long-term organizing around it. As a police action, it was a good example of "We haven't got a fuckin clue what we're doin," and the general reaction was "Jeez! Did you really have to burn down the whole block?" but within a week we all went back to working on Central America and South Africa and the Appalachian States Compact and the Nuclear Test Ban and the other big picture issues of the day

[era veteran]

62. Thanks for your post

MOVE has never dropped a bomb, burned down a neighbourhood or killed anyone, they have only demanded the release of innocent members. The City of Philadelphia has killed 17 MOVE members, including adults, children, 1 baby and 4 miscarriages. GUNFIRE: Sambor later told the MOVE Commission that police had responded to automatic gunfire from MOVE, however, the only weapons found in MOVE’s house were two pistols, a shotgun, and a .22 caliber rifle: no automatic weapons. Sambor was unable to explain this contradiction when challenged by the MOVE Commission. Baby killers!

[David__77]

67. There sure are a lot of folk defending bombing Black people in America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbOPrV_NHAE

This was a CRIME!

[Rebubula]

68. MOVE

The MOVE bombing was wrong and horrific.

However, Mumia killed a fucking cop and deserves his punishment. Stop apologizing for a murderer.

[Hannah Bell]

69. no one on this thread even mentioned his name, & he wasn't involved in the bombing incident.

so why don't you take your red herrings to another thread.

[11 Bravo]

75. Ummmm, "No one on this thread even mentioned his name"?

Did you forget your own OP? You mentioned his fucking name right from the start.
Damn! That's just embarrassing.

[karynnj]

71. I watched,this go down on TV while in labor with my oldest daughter

It still seems amazing that this happened.