Why doesn't the pro-life crowd condemn and call for a ban of male vasectomy?

[Union Yes]

I grew up in a fundie evangelical "born again" church until I walked out of that church at the age of 14.

They viewed women's independence in a worse light than their 'satan'. An independent woman was their 'satan'. The preacher gave sermons about how it was a woman's duty to be 100% subservient to her husband and it was her duty to be barefoot and pregnant.

The point is, these folks were as anti-choice/anti-women's independence as it gets. They even formed a chapter of an organization called the "Lambs of Christ". Their sole purpose- protest at abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood clinics. They called for a ban on all abortion, birth control pills, IUD, and any form of BC available to a woman.

These wingnuts, including my parents, were extremely vocal in their Authoritarian views against women's reproductive freedom. I've worked hard at informing my mother over the years since. She's gone through a lot of change since then and has dropped those fundy views.

The point of all this..

NEVER, NOT ONCE did I ever hear one of these vocal wingnuts ever say a bad word about male vasectomies.

In fact, it was well known that one of the men in the church, a father of 4 had a vasectomy after the birth of their 4th child. The church members knew it and accepted it like nothing happened.

It's common for church members to have coffee and treats after a church service. Christians call it 'fellowship'. Church members sit at small tables in the church's dining area and gossip. I remember sitting at one of these fellowships with my dad and other men from the church. The guy that had the vasectomy was also sitting at the table. Part of that conversation- All of the men at that table were talking and joking about getting vasectomies themselves. At that time, I was about 9 years old or so. They thought I was too young to understand what they were talking about.

Please remember, these were fundy Christian men.

That was about 30 years ago. I will never forget that 'fellowship' and what was said at that table.

At the age of 9, I saw hypocrisy for the first time. It started to change my own beliefs.

Christianity NEVER challenges male authority. NEVER.

A man can freely get a vasectomy, but if a woman practices reproductive freedom then she must be condemned.

There's a word for that. It's called..
Hypocrisy

Has anyone who has read this far into this OP ever heard the anti-choice fundy crowd ever challenge or call for a ban on male vasectomy?

Of all the wingnuttedness that I have been exposed to in my life, I have never once heard them call for a ban on vasectomies.

Why the hypocrisy?

Because male Authoritarianism will never be challenged in fundy Christian churches.

............................................

Just to be clear..

I support 100%, reproductive freedom and family planning for all women and men.

I wrote this OP to point out the hypocrisy of the anti-choice/anti-abortion/anti-reproductive freedom crowd.

[jtrockville]

1. IIRC, many decades ago, SNL had an "every sperm is special" skit.

[meegbear]

2. I believe you are thinking of Monty Python's Meaning of Life ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

[jtrockville]

30. Ah yes, that was it. Hilarious!

[GreenStormCloud]

3. Protestant churches have no problem with contraception.

In the case of vasectomies, conception is prevented. Note that those same churches also have no problem with a woman having her tubes tied. Tubal ligation is the female equivalent to a male vasectomy.

With abortion, the fetus already exists. Since men can't get pregnant, there is no male counterpart to abortion. Obviously, they believe that aborting a fetus is killing a human life.

Your church was a rare exception if they were against the pill, foam, gels, or other female methods of birth control. What was the denomination?

Obligatory disclaimer: I am personally pro-choice.

[Union Yes]

5. "What was the denomination?"

Assembly of God

[GreenStormCloud]

9. Assembly of God is not against birth control.

From their web site: http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/pp_4196_sanctity_human_life.pdf

Contraception. The Assemblies of God, finding no clear scriptural mandate, does not take
an official stand on the appropriateness of contraception within a heterosexual marriage for
purposes of regulating the number of children, determining the time of their birth, or
safeguarding the health of the mother. These are matters of personal conscience as godly
spouses prayerfully covenant with God about the growth of their families. While there are
important ethical issues in determining to have a family, the prevention of pregnancy is
understood to be qualitatively different from the termination of pregnancy since the sperm
has not fertilized the ovum and human life has not yet begun. The biological processes
themselves teach us that in God’s creative design not every sperm or ovum is intended to
survive and unite. It should be remembered, however, that some methods commonly
regarded as contraception, such as the IUD and the morning-after pill, are actually
abortifacients that terminate rather than prevent pregnancy.

Your pastor was not in line with the official denomational view.

[Dappleganger]

13. Many AG churches do their own thing.

They do not get kicked out of their denomination unless it's something heretical, outright immorality, etc.

[GreenStormCloud]

17. Nevertheless, I have shown that the OP's brush is waaay too broad.

The OP seeks to condemn all Evangelical Christians because of his/her experience in one church.

The truth is that it is a rare Evangelical Church that is against birth control, and that the AG, as a denomination, is not against it. The denomination viewpoint represents the majority view of the denomination.

[Dappleganger]

You're right.

It's not common, but there are deep pockets of Quiverfull congregations which do (and that philosophy permeates different denominations). Don't forget reformed Catholics teach it also.

[GreenStormCloud]

23. That's why I was careful to specify Protestants.

Since I am not a Catholic, I will let them speak for themselves. But the OP was blasting all Evangelical Churches.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. What was it that what's his name said to do when you feel

you are being 'blasted' for his name's sake? I think it was 'rejoice' and celebrate. I do not recall the verses that say to split hairs, take offense and complain about it.
I do not see what you see in the OP at all. I ask that you specifically state what you see as 'blasting all' rather than addressing specifics as the OP does. Give detail as to your thinking, because it seems to me to be fully imagined on your part.
Also, show the verse that says you get to whine about criticism of your faith. What's his name said the opposite. But what's he got to do with evangelical churches, right? You can quote your sources, I'll quote what's his name, who said to rejoice, and I will wait for the day that even one who claims to stand with what's his name behaves in the manner he taught them to. That is the day I will be able to believe that they believe. To me, at this point, I see the church as apostate, whining and grandstanding when they are not organizing against my family.
Oh, yes, Jesus said to search out offense, to demand apology, and insist upon respect. Or not. Pick one. The fruits you bear shows what you really believe and to whom you listen, no?
Rejoice, said what's his name. But that has nothing to do with the religion at hand, now does it?

[GreenStormCloud]

28. He said:

A man can freely get a vasectomy, but if a woman practices reproductive freedom then she must be condemned.

The analog to a male vasectomy is, for a woman, a tubal ligation.

He tried to imply that all evangelical churches are against all forms of birth control.

I did not whine, I merely corrected him on his facts. Evangelical churches are NOT against contraception.

They are against abortion, but I admitted that early on.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

35. You are correct. I do not know of any mainstream Protestant denomination against BC

even the hardcore fundie ones

[Toasterlad]

34. +1,000,000. There's No Such Thing As a Christian Who Follows Christ

I've yet to meet even one who understands what it means to be a christian better than I do.

[MIprogressive]

11. I agree

[Warpy]

4. It's because the whole crowd is about male control

and nothing else. If the patriarch decrees there are enough children in the family and gets snipped, it's his choice and his helpmeet must obey.

Get it?

If she's overburdened with a quiverful of 12 and her doctor agrees another one will kill her, hey, that's just too bad, boo hoo. The patriarch decides how many children you will have, madam, and you will simply comply.

It's also why Pat Robertson was fine with abortion as it is practiced in China, forced on unwilling women by male politicians. As long as the male decides, it's just peachy and the male can do no wrong in the matter.

Every fundy understands this but only on a visceral level and they will never articulate it. Reading between the lines of their rhetoric, however, the whole thing comes through loud and clear.

[Jokerman]

6. I had two doctors refuse to even discuss a vasectomy with me.

I've known since I was a teenager that I didn't want children but I was told at 20 and again at 25 that I was too young to make such a permanent decision.

[Dappleganger]

16. It's often reversible, too.

But I applaud your decision to take control of this.

[GreenStormCloud]

21. Sometimes they reverse themselves.

There are two different ways that the surgery can be done. One was is absolutely permenant. The other way can often, but not always, be reversed and it can also reverse itself. Guess who you find out that it has self-reversed?

[GreenStormCloud]

19. They were afraid of lawsuits.

If I were a doctor and a young man wanted one, I would back away too.

I had my mine when I was 38.

[Hepburn]

20. I have a male friend, who is now in his late 60s, who had a vas at age 35.

He decided way back when that he never wanted children and he wished to be the one responsible for making sure that never happened. He has never regreted his decision. So, if you are sure...really sure...then go for it IMO. I do think that when you are in your 30s, you will not get the guff you are getting now. I do congratulate you for taking responsibility for making a very definite choice on your life and how you wished to have it run.

:hi:

[knitter4democracy]

7. I've heard pastors preach against it.

I went to an evangelical church from the age of ten on to when I graduated from the church's college at 23. I heard pastors preach against it, saying it should only be used in cases when the wife cannot get pregnant anymore because of health reasons. The church I'm in now doesn't like it, either, just as they don't like any birth control of any kind, though they tend not to preach on it or make a big deal out of it.

Not all churches go to that extreme, by the way. I well remember the day in my philosophy class when we were debating abortion and I made a student start crying. He started yelling at everyone that they weren't really against abortion unless they were marching and protesting and doing everything they could, and everyone just sat there staring at the guy in horror.

[GreenStormCloud]

12. I have never head a pastor preach against it.

I am a senior citizen and have been in various protestant denomination all my life. (Assembly of God, Methodist, Southern Baptist, Presbyterian, and various independent charismatic movement churches.) Never have heard a preacher who was against birth control.

[Dappleganger]

14. Neither have I

but have had friends who attended churches which did preach against it. They were of course all 'Quiverfull' and pretty much believed that a woman's sole purpose was to get married and squirt babies ad nauseum.

[GreenStormCloud]

18. Outside of DU, I have never heard of the Quiverfull movement. N/T

[Dappleganger]

24. I first heard of it among homeschoolers...

Debi and Michael Pearl advocate this, too. We found it permeating the small, reformed Catholic community in the northern part of Shenandoah county, VA. This philosophy is all over the religious homeschool forums, too.

People like myself who were liberal homeschoolers knew to steer far and clear of anyone like that in homeschool groups, which is why we stuck with the atheist group. Although we were christian we just found them to be a better fit and far more accepting.

[GreenStormCloud]

29. I would think that the Quiverfull movement would be self-limiting.

Kids cost lots of money, and lots of kids cost LOTS AND LOTS of money. People are well aware of that. That will severely limit the reception that Quiverfull speakers might get.

I have no experience with anything inside the Catholic Church so I can't address anything that is happening with them.

[ipfilter]

33. I work with one.

Nine kids and counting. I think they have had three or four miscarriages.

[mfcorey1]

8. Those were my exact thoughts this morning.

I want a ban on the use of public funds for Viagra and Cialis written into the health care bill.

[Dappleganger]

15. Agreed!

Not until women's medical needs are fully-funded should men be given the magic pill for Mr. Limpy.

[NNN0LHI]

10. Because these freaks never have normal sex so they don't worry about it

Vitter knew he wasn't going to get that prostitute preggers by have her change his shitty diaper for him.

Don

[Skidmore]

22. Because all your eggs

belong to Jesus.

[crikkett]

26. Because talking about willies makes them shiver?

:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

27. Because women can be artificially inseminated doncha now.

[Xithras]

31. The Catholic church considers vasectomies to be a mortal sin.

For non-Catholics, "mortal sins" are sins so serious that they earn you an automatic ticket to Hell. I heard them preached against many times when I was growing up.

Basically, any Christian denomination that subscribes to the "babies are a gift from God and He wants you to have a dozen" philosophy is going to be pretty strongly anti-vasectomy. It's typically seen as the male equivalent to taking "the pill", or having your tubes tied.

I was considering getting snipped shortly after my third child was born. I tried to bring it up with my doctor, but he wouldn't discuss it with me. I'd always known that he was a somewhat fundie Catholic, but it had never really been an issue before. In that case, he not only wouldn't advise me, but he wouldn't even offer a referral to someone who would.

[Toasterlad]

32. Probably For The Same Reason They Don't Rail Against Women Having Their Tubes Tied

Honestly, I get what you're saying, and I agree that their aim is the domination of women, but the pro-life people seem primarily concerned with making sure you aren't aborting actual fetuses. I've never heard any large protests aimed at contraceptive practices. Even the hypocritical catholics only pay lip service to the "no condoms" issue (at least in the United States).

[madchick44]

37. What about railing against the morning after pill?

Just asking.

[Toasterlad]

39. That Is Actually Killing What They Consider A Life.

They believe life begins at contraception. It fits their logic to attack the morning after pill. They don't seem as concerned with preventive measures.

[MN TN]

36. I used to go to one of those churches

I heard some of them complain about Catholic Churches because of Mother Mary's status was too high.
"She was just a woman". Didn't believe in divorce even if the woman's life was in danger.
I finally wised up and left.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

38. I've heard of hysterectomy on women after they complete their families.

I knew a Catholic lady who had three boys, and then a hysterectomy.

I have no idea if that was for BC purposes or medical purposes. When she told me about it she did not mention any heavy bleeding, cancer or anything like that.

Maybe that's one way to get around the hissy fits over tubal ligation.

:shrug: