As Far As I'm Concerned, Glenn Greenwald has no Credibility Criticizing Kagan as a SCOTUS pick.

[berni_mccoy]

He (on his own voluntary terms) represented a white-supremicist group (not as a defense attorney, as a civil lawyer, defending their 1s Amendment claims).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald

One of Greenwald's most notable First Amendment clients was Matthew Hale, a leader of the organization formerly known as the World Church of the Creator and now known as the Creativity Movement, who, on April 6, 2005, was sentenced to a 40-year prison term for soliciting an undercover FBI informant to kill federal judge Joan Lefkow and incarcerated in the United States Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility (ADX) in Florence, Colorado. Although he "represented Hale and his organization in several civil cases" and was not involved in Hale's criminal defense case, after the subsequent killing of Judge Lefkow's mother and husband while Hale was incarcerated for the earlier conviction, Greenwald was enlisted by Hale's mother, Evelyn Hutcheson, to deliver a purportedly "encoded message" from the imprisoned Hale to one of his supporters on the outside; but, despite believing that Hale had been wrongfully convicted and uninvolved in the more recent murders, Greenwald declined to do so.

Greenwald has no position criticizing Kagan's record as a liberal. NONE. He was not an appointed defender of these racists and murderers. He was their voluntary civil defender.

[AllentownJake]

1. Oh yeah, the free speech thing

You must hate the ACLU...really hate them.

[DeltaLitProf]

2. So the ACLU has no credibility with you either, right?

They have represented numerous neo-Nazi and Right-wing groups.

[berni_mccoy]

6. Is the ACLU criticizing Kagan as a pick? No, I don't have an issue with anyone defending their right

I have a problem with hypocrites attacking a liberal with a bullshit attack.

Oh, and I'm a card-carrying member of the ACLU.

[Forkboy]

32. "Oh, and I'm a card-carrying member of the ACLU."

LOL...you should give it back because you clearly don't get it.

Though personally, I doubt you really are anyways.

[WeDidIt]

3. But He is the Right and Mighty

He is the High Lord Douchenozzle whose every word defines all that is good and liberal.

[AllentownJake]

9. Nah we just trot him out to piss you guys off

He's kind of like our Rahm.

[WeDidIt]

15. I's not working

You don't have Lord High Douchenozzle as your avatar.

:P

[AllentownJake]

18. Nah,

I could care less, I figured he would take the safest least risky path for himself personally, it is what he does with everything.

I'd say I'd be surprised I'm not. The man lacks courage or principles, figured that out months ago, but he can give a hell of a speech on courage and principles. Hopefully the liberals give him a scare of the lifetime with a primary challenger and fuck with all your worlds.

[KittyWampus]

20. at least you tacitly admit you don't have any other way to form your own opinion

[AllentownJake]

21. It was a fucking joke

My opinion is the President is a political coward, and it is verified on a daily basis.

He does speak well though, I guess that is an improvement from the crazy person for 8 years.

[WeDidIt]

22. You're entitled to your opinion

no matter how wrong it is.

[AllentownJake]

23. Well

I hope he proves me wrong...but 18 months in, I think the political coward label is pretty accurate.

If there is a compromise that waters down legislation but makes it look like he did something when he didn't he'll take it in a minute.

Oh and DRILL BABY DRILL...I wasn't a hardliner on that issue, if we are going to drill rather a democrat be in charge they might regulate if they have balls, but watching his reversal on that one was one of the most entertaining periods of the Barack Presidency...and tragic with the consequences of his authorizing that rig in April of 09 later.

[WeDidIt]

24. You're entitled to your opinion

even though he's proved himself the most politically courageous president in the past century over the past 18 months.

[AllentownJake]

30. FDR dealt with Nazis, Kennedy ended up dead, and Johnson took down segregation

:rofl:

So fucking wrong on many levels you even make that statement.

On the courage meter, he rates slightly higher than George H.W. Bush and below Nixon.

[WeDidIt]

34. Barack Obama accomplished the most politically difficult accomplishment in the past century

They all tried and failed.

FDR tried, he failed. It was too tough politically,

Kennedy tried and failed. It was too tough politically.

Johnson tried and failed. It was too tough politically.

Teddy Roosevelt tried and failed. It was too tough politically.

Truman tried ad failed. It was too tough politically.

Nixon tried and failed. It was too tough politically.

Clinton tried and failed. It was too tough politically.

But Barack Obama went all the way, risking his entire political existance, and got the job done.

We now have Health Care Reform, a promise that was not kept for the past century because it was too tough politically. Politically, Barack Obama is the most courageous president in a century.

[AllentownJake]

35. We are still calling that sham of a bill HCR

Thanks but no thanks.

The bill was probably the worst piece of legislation I've seen since the Reagan tax cuts. Mandated insurance with no public option isn't reform its fucking Mitt Romney's plan.

Mitt lost the GOP primary, glad to see his legislation won in congress.

[WeDidIt]

36. Thus saith AllentownJake

And thus it must be true.

No need to attempt anything of a discussion with you any longer. You're too full of yourself to be rational.

[AllentownJake]

37. I am full of myself

but you have to be when you are surrounded by this brain trust.

BTW I WAS RIGHT ON GREECE!

:rofl:

[Sebastian Doyle]

4. Well, I guess we know what the Message Discipline LLC talking points memo was about today

Now that three of you are clearly obsessed with Greenwald. :eyes:

[Truth2Tell]

29. I know, right?

And can the talking point really be as crass as "OMG!!1 Greenwald defended a racist?"

[Bolo Boffin]

5. You're telling me that Greenwald is serious enough about the First Amendment to defend

even the free speech of someone as hateful as Matthew Hale?

I'm surprised you see this as a dealbreaker.

[berni_mccoy]

8. Same point applies to Hagan.

And Greenwald's attack on her liberalism would be the same thing.

[Bolo Boffin]

11. I think you mean Kagan with a K. n/t

[Goblinmonger]

14. You really don't see the difference?

It's NOT the same.

[nxylas]

7. Yes, only people we approve of are entitled to a robust defense in court

Are you a fan of Law and Order, aka Defense Lawyers are Scum, Frustrating the Fine and Noble Prosecutors, by any chance?

[MadBadger]

10. Berni, berni, berni.

I hope you eventually realize how unhelpful you're being.

[defendandprotect]

45. I'll say it's confusing as hell . . . quite some background on Greenwald!! Yikes!!

[Truth2Tell]

12. Ummmm, I hate to break it to you

but providing legal defense to even those accused of the most horrible things is a LIBERAL credential. The belief in equal protection under the law is a cornerstone of liberal thought. The fact that Greenwald has defended racists in court when no one else would - and when he clearly disagrees with their views - demonstrates his commitment on a personal level to the LIBERAL principles he preaches. Greenwald has as much right to criticize Kagan as anyone. And plenty of credibility to do it.

[berni_mccoy]

16. He wasn't defending them (criminally). Nope, he has no right to question her position as a liberal

Her credibility as a lawyer, sure, but as a liberal, no fucking way.

He has no leg to stand on.

[Truth2Tell]

25. He was defending their rights

despite the fact that he disagreed with their views.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it" -Voltaire.

Greenwald has lived that axiom more than most of us.

Do you agree with Voltaire berni? Do you think his is a liberal notion?

Edit to add: Greenwald stepped up to help defend First Amendment principles in this case, despite knowing that his association with the plaintiffs would almost certainly be dragged out by various douchnozzles whenever someone wanted to smear him for the rest of his life. Whenever lawyers make the courageous choice to defend the rights of the unpopular, that's part of the price. It's part of why so few step up.

[AllentownJake]

38. Don't break out the philosphers

Trying equating it to someone who has more of a pop-culture reference, you will get further.

Lady GaGa maybe?

[hiphopnation]

27. you fail in fundamental logic

you're committing the straw man fallacy.
you want people to attack this straw man as proof that he's unfit to criticize Kagen. That's just craziness!

[defendandprotect]

13. Let's deal with Kagan . . . and find out all we can about her . .. start there . . .

She loves "The Federalist Society" ???

[berni_mccoy]

19. Nice quote out of context. She also said directly to them "But, you know, you are not my people."

Funny how you left that out.

[defendandprotect]

43. Never heard that part of it . . .. Good to hear!! I'm hoping for a liberal . . .

not someone who supports Fedealist Society!!! Wow!!

[hiphopnation]

17. *hand slap head*

*groan*

[ipaint]

26. The titles to these free for all, namecalling and bashing threads

are geared to immediately be picked on google. I was doing a little digging into the op's hale claims and just about every recent greenwald is a "fill in the blank" thread is on page one.

Even this one. Funny how that works.

[TexasObserver]

28. I can't believe you used the word "credibility."

[QC]

42. It's like Larry Flynt singing the praises of chastity. n/t

[EFerrari]

44. LOL

:rofl:

[Forkboy]

31. That makes me like him more. I like the 1st Admendment myself.

I think the hardcore reactionaries, like yourself, are far more dangerous than Greenwald is.

And you talking of credibilty is awesome! :silly:

[mmonk]

33. He is not alone.

I have disagreed with him on occasion. However, I agree with him on this one. Others such as the Center for Constitutional Rights have misgivings as well.

[librechik]

39. One more liberal name on the mccoy "not acceptable" list

Now even Glennzilla is just not pure enough for our berni. Or maybe the cooties rubbed off Jane Hamsher and onto Glenn.

[Javaman]

40. Epic epic fail.

this is worse than face plant fail.

[superduperfarleft]

41. This is worse than "Thank God it Passed" and "Proud Corporatist" combined. n/t