The ocean front homes that are going to become uninhabitable from the oil soon?

[NNN0LHI]

Do homeowners insurance policies cover that kind of thing?

Anyone know anything about this?

Don

[TwilightGardener]

1. Why would they be uninhabitable--the smell?

[AllentownJake]

3. I'm pretty sure oil is going into their water supply

I doubt the filtration process set up by the municpality was set up to filter out large amounts of crude oil.

[HereSince1628]

10. I've always heard that oil and water don't mix...

I'm not a hydrologist, but I think most coastal communities pump freshwater from aquifers that are more or less isolated from the sea. Yes, I know that Florida has problems with seawater infiltration due to high rates of pumping out their shallow freshwater aquifers.

I don't know anything about the solubility of the dispersant agents being thrown in the sea. But that stuff concerns me as much as the oil spill. Unintended consequences can be serious.

Up here in Wisconsin the state required refineries to add a chemical, MTBE, to gasoline to decrease ozone; the additive, but not gasoline, has been found in water from private wells. Apparently gasoline evaporates, but the additive sinks into the ground water.

[AllentownJake]

11. Tropical storm or Hurricane nt.

[HereSince1628]

15. as in wellheads that are flooded? n/t

[robdogbucky]

21. Off Topic, but still about MTBE

MTBE was added to gasoline (I think nationally) in the mistaken belief that it would help limit air pollution. Unfortunately, none of those geniuses at the oil companies thought about its interaction with water. A frequent course of events that triggered this discovery were the claims of contaminated soil in locations were old gas stations had been. The constituent parts of non-MTBE enhanced gasoline were not water soluble. MTBE is water soluble. Hence, unlike the normal constituent parts of gasoline without the MTBE, which could be broken down in the soil if contaminated by said gasoline over a period of time,this created an obvious problem. The gas with MTBE added to it however, was able to travel with the water during rains or other deposits of water, and move that MTBE throughout the soil, migrating to wherever that groundwater traveled, into wells like it did in a community in So. Cal. (Avila Beach?), where the water supply was immediately contaminated with MTBE.

MTBE turned out to be a boondoggle by the oil companies for this lack of testing MTBE's possible effects on other areas of our environment and subsequent contamination of ground water until they stopped adding it. They didn't do that until some lawsuits were filed, trials held, and judgments rendered. This was a good and a bad thing. Unfortunately here in California, the road to hell, etc.

Subsequent to one plaintiffs' group achieving a large judgment in an MTBE trial (that's a good thing in principle) lawsuits were filed in other Cal communities for other reasons contaminating the groundwater. That award money from the oil companies as compensation for contaminating water with MTBE up in Reno or somewhere, was used as a war chest to finance litigation brought against an array of polluters, some validly claimed, some just on a gold-digging quest. This was in the mid to late 1990s.

One of these subsequent efforts was a con on California community, Lodi, I believe, that was approached by a law firm with questionable ethics to say the least. Apparently funded and emboldened by the success of the lawsuits against the oil companies, one law firm sought to sue all the chemical companies that had contaminated the Lodi groundwater through industrial processes, like dry cleaning establishments and construction sites, and manufacturing processes that discarded dangerous by products into local drains, sewers, catch basins, etc. They convinced that city council to take out a loan funded by Lehman Bros. to finance these promised lawsuits. They promised that the money obtained in judgments against the corporate polluters would easily refund the loan money plus much more. This was, to say the least, an unorthodox way for a law firm to pursue litigation. They usually don't aggressively market such things, it is usually an aggrieved party that comes to them with damages seeking compensation.

Lodi was suckered into taking this many millions to finance litigation, promised by this law firm to clean up the city's water and to punish those evil companies that were polluting their water supply. After about 4 years, some on the city council were getting restless about any progress on the promised lawsuits. They called the law firm to account, a federal judge in Sacramento got involved, reviewed the events and demanded that the law firm cease their efforts and called for Lehman Bros. to be held to accounts, etc. He thought it highly unethical for a law firm to convince a city to finance a fishing expedition mainly on the promise of a windfall in judgment money. A con. By the time this federal judge got involved, the law firm had done almost nothing to investigate any possible claims to be brought, they had largely squandered the Lehman Bros. money (the managing partner of this law firm was a con man through and through and really did squander the money) and urged the city of Lodi to rescind the contract with Lehman, to immediately fire that law firm and to start an investigation into that attorney and his firm.

I interviewed with that firm just before this story all broke, and that is how this situation first came onto my radar. I had worked on some grounwater contamination cases in other California cities and a headhunter I was working with thought I would be a good fit for the job at this plaintiffs' firm on this particular case. I knew something was not right at this place compared to all the other firms I had worked at. They had a bare bones staff and they were allegedly conducting this massive multi-million dollar litigation, funded by Lehman Bros. loan to Lodi. Also, no one could answer some direct, rifle-shot questions I had about the technical apects of this specific litigation, having worked on such cases before and I had some insider knowledge of the process. These people could not answer my questions, and although they were very eager to hire me after learning how much I knew about this specific issue they almost fell over themselves making promises to get me to come on board. I backed out of there as quickly and inconspicuously as possible and immediately called the headhunter that sent me there. I informed him that I thought they were up to no good, that I was not interested in the position. Luckily, I was working at the time and was not dependent on this interview or this headhunter for anything but a look at a new possible position. I found out that the dot com bust had caused folks that could not tell a fly by night law firm from the real deal to become headhunters in a field they knew nothing about. He had told me this was an interview at an "Environmental law firm," which should have alerted me but didn't. Law firms don't usually describe themselves in such vague terms, they usuall say plaintiff or defendant work, but not something so neutral that could mean anything. The term "Environmental," is used and abused. This all happened in about 2003.

The law firm was soon thereafter disbanded, the city called a halt to their activities and immediately began the process to rescind the contract, etc. Unfortunately, the money had almost all been spent, no lawsuits were ever filed against any of the corporate polluters in Lodi, and I believe that city was left holding the bag.

I followed the story for a while in the Sacramento Bee, but I haven't looked it up in a while to see what ultimately happened to all these players. It was a part of history to think that Lehman Bros. would lead the parade some years later in being exposed for all the bad paper they had been involved with.

Things are sometimes not what they seem.


Just my dos centavos


robdogbucky

[Lance_Boyle]

14. Seaside towns don't filter seawater for drinking, for the most part.

Water supplies are safe.

And in those few instances where RO is used to remove salt, it would get the oil, too.

[AllentownJake]

16. One hurricane or tropical storm

That theory is over.

[Lance_Boyle]

20. Only if they have open ground-level reservoirs that get contaminated, and

those could be quite easily cleaned. Coastal municipal wells/water towers should not have any problems from oil, regardless of storms.

It's going to impact gulf-front property with smell and residue on shore, not to mention dead animals. Drinking water should not be a concern.

[Maine-ah]

24. that's if these homes are on public water.

What about wells?

[Feron]

27. Oil does produce toxic fumes.

From what I understand, in Louisiana light crude which this likely is, the volatile components evaporate readily unlike the heavier oils. So it's highly possible the oil will outgas all of the nasty stuff before getting close to shore.

Burning the oil is another thing. I live about 100 miles north of Venice, Louisiana and last night it smelled like ,as one blogger put it, Barbie melting in a microwave. It's not overwhelming where I live, but I can't imagine how strong it must be in the Venice area.

We already know the air is unsafe at least in Venice. The Louisiana Environmental Action Network http://www.southernstudies.org/2010/05/air-tests-from-the-louisiana-coast-reveal-human-health-threats-from-the-oil-disaster.html">released it's air testing result there.

Of course the smell isn't omnipresent. It really depends on which way the wind blows. Right now we're getting the smell because it's blowing south. Other days the Florida coast gets the smell and it's back to normal here.

[Uben]

2. Probably not...

..the problem is man-made, therefore liability falls on those who created the problem.....BP. They will be facing lawsuits for decades, most likely.

[madmax]

6. I heard a lawyer being interview on Tweety

I think, who said, he fears that BP could file for bankruptcy protection in East Texas which is bigtime Oil country and manage to tie this whole thing up and no one gets squat.

[madmax]

dupe

[madmax]

4. Good question

but, when do insurance policies pay out? They will manage to somehow get out of it.

[AllentownJake]

5. Seeing this is a hurricane region

My guess these are all federal insurance policies.

After 75 million dollars of damages are awarded, the feds pay out claims anyway on damage to property or loss of income due to an oil spill, though BP will still be the defendent.

[Javaman]

7. The insurance will pay out, if ever, after the lawsuits have been settled.

expect whole families to live long lives then pass on to their reward before they ever see a dime.

[NNN0LHI]

8. I found this. It doesn't sound good

A second major issue will be whether "physical damage" to "insured property" has occurred. Many policies define "property not covered" to include "roadways, other paved surfaces, land, and foundations." Direct damage to "insured" or "covered" property is generally a requirement to trigger coverage. So, even if the property policy may provide some limited coverage for the extraction of the oil, most can anticipate litigation over whether the property and economic loss is covered under the property and business income forms and whether the oil damage to property is not covered because it was uncovered "land."

[Scuba]

9. I'll bet oceanfront homeowners are compensated better - and sooner - than fishermen

[havocmom]

12. Haven't a lot of insurers already stopped carrying homeowners insurance in FL

How bout the rest of the Gulf Coast? Anybody living there have some info on that?

Oh, and this is where the 'think we're rich, but just upper lower class peons in reality' Republican voters find out just how poor and disposable they really are. The REALLY rich who own the big companies (insurance included) are about to take a major dump on their 'base' in that area.

[ima_sinnic]

13. my impression is that there is basically only one insurer on the west coast of FL

and it is extremely expensive.

My knowledge is vague and secondhand, based only on my father's experience of owning a home in Ft. Myers that he had some trouble selling after Katrina, I believe it was, because of the insurance problem, which was the reason he wanted to sell in the first place. It took a while, and he had to really lower his price, but eventually he did sell it and felt very relieved to do so.

[recoveringrepublican]

18. It depends. I live in Pinellas County (on the west coast, west of Tampa)

We live in a flood prone area, about 4 blocks from the water, but are lucky and our house is somewhat elevated compared to our neighbors. For years we could only get insurance through Citizens, it wasn't too expensive, about $1000 for replacement on a 1200 sq ft house valued, at the time, at 180K.

This year we have been getting offers from all sorts of small insurance companies. We decided to stick with Citizens until after hurricane season this year, so we can research them more. This year our insurance is $1500 though.

I have no idea what our neighbors who are forced to buy flood insurance pay. When we lived in another town just north of us now, and still by the water, our flood insurance alone was a little over $1K/year if I remember correctly.

[onethatcares]

26. could you pm me and let me know who your carrier is?

I live near 30th st and 1st ave n, 52 ft above sea level and my insurance premium just went up 522.00 American this year to attain a high of $2843.00.

My home is a 1926 frame model and they want me to carry replacement value, telling me I can't get any less coverage when all I really want to do is insure the mortgage payoff and add 100K for knockdown/haul away/start over funding.

No flood insurance is involved at all.

[Ganja Ninja]

17. I doubt their homes will become uninhabitable.

It's sure going to mess up their docks and seawalls and the boats tied to them.

[Juneboarder]

19. I would think not...

A typical homeowners policy doesn't cover natural disasters. That is why there are policies to cover hurricanes and earthquakes specifically. I never looked into the midwest and tornado damage, but do they carry tornado policies, or are they included in with a typical homeowners policy? My theory is that insurance will stay clear, as this is much larger than their scope.

As for uninhabitable... I agree with you there. Whether or not the drinking water will be affected should be the least of everyone's worries. What about the toxic fumes that come from the oil that is encroaching? The fumes combined with lack of economy could drive the people away thus leaving the southern coastal gulf states a huge ghost town.

[Atman]

22. Insurance companies will find a way to call it an "Act of God."

Cuz, you know, oil is natural, and like, all that pressure is natural, too...no one could have foreseen this...God did it. And now he/she doesn't want to use his/her powers to stop the leak from killing all of his/her creations. God is fickle that way. Deal with it...just so long as the few remaining companies willing to insure beachfront properties don't have to write any checks.

[marions ghost]

23. well if you don't mind

living on an industrial cesspool where the whole ecosystem has basically crashed. I would call that uninhabitable, certainly uninhabitable for healthy living. Would be like owning expensive waterfront property on Love Canal.

That's the potential if they can't stop this real soon.

[hedgehog]

25. Does anybody know if Trent Lott rebuilt his ocean front house?

[onethatcares]

28. you'd have to ask *

he said he was gonna enjoy sitting on the front porch of it.

Gaud, almost three years since that assshole is outa office and I still can't say or type his name.

[hedgehog]

29. I wonder what Trent's attitude was on off-shore drilling?