"Perhaps the Enlightenment guaranteed freedom of speech, but the

[WCGreen]

freedom of those who could buy a printing press was clearly not equal to that of those who stood on a soapbox - or those who had no leisure to do either..."

This is a quote I pulled from the book Moral Clarity - A Guide for Grown-up Idealists by Susan Neiman that I have been studying for a while. I thought this quote form her book would be something that would catch the eye of DU'ers.

But it is about more, so much more.

Susan Neiman is a modern day moralist who applies philosophical thought to her framework of moral reality.

If you are serious about the function of Morality in an increasingly non-Moral reality, then this book is for you.

She starts of with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah and leaves the child-like interpretation for Sunday School and goes right to the meat of the groundbreaking morality that is really presented here. It's all about Abraham having the courage to question God to actually call out god for possibly condemning the good who live within the Twin Cities of depravity because of the actions of the majority. She focuses on the consequences Abraham puts aside in order to make a moral argument before the Supreme Being.

It's a concept that was so foreign to previous religious cultures, as the discovered evidence seems to support, that it caused a seismic change from a personified Deity to a religion base on ideas and choices.

I'm only about one fourth through the book but I would strongly recommend this book to anyone who has a deep longing for progressive idealism.

So far I have yet to see any real sign of pragmatism in this book. I say that because people have been looking for a practical way to address moral problems or dilemmas.

She goes into depth about the development of the differences between idealism and ideology.

"...ideologies concern our capacity to understand ourselves in relation to other people, and they operate at a very fundamental, often preconscious leve..."

"...idealism is not neutral at all: Let's define it, for the moment, as the belief that the world can be improved by means of ideals expressing states reality that are better than the ones we currently experience. Ideology is thus a much broader notion than idealism; ideologies can be made up of most anything ever believed long enough to be taken seriously."

This is important stuff that we all should take seriously. The idea of searching for something bigger than ourselves on which to build a party on is ongoing and changes almost minute to minute.


It's difficult to try and peg every decision made by an Administration that is trying to appeal to the broadest base possible.

Perhaps it is because we ask too much of our leadership and the GOP asks only that their leaders never raise taxes and that they appear to be tough at all times.

Perhaps that is why those of use who are pragmatic enough to support a democrat over a Republican have a harder time when our ideals are transformed into policy.

But as far as I am concerned, give me a thinking man over one who only lives to reacts.

And that, my Friends, is how I put each decision made by the administration into a perspective with which I can deal.

[zipplewrath]

1. I only wish

Perhaps that is why those of use who are pragmatic enough to support a democrat over a Republican have a harder time when our ideals are transformed into policy.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Obama. The primary complaint around here is that our ideals are not being transformed into policy. Mandates and Cadillac taxes were not our ideals and they were not supposed to be in the policy. Warren wasn't our ideal. Tripling the troops in Afghanistan was not our policy. The SOFA agreement was not our policy.

When Clinton was elected, it was my most "pragmatic" vote. I knew he was a right leaning democrat intent on dumping the unions and trying to build a coalition of the old "rockefeller republicans" or eastern establishment republicans. But what was I to do? Vote for Bush I? When he bailed on healthcare (turning down the basic proposal that Obama just signed) I was only slightly surprised. I was only slightly surprised by most of it, including DOMA, and DADT, as well as NAFTA. He practically warned people that he would do these things.

Obama did not warn. Change, he said. So I figured, okay, I won't get all the change I want, but some of the things he's talking about sound good. Public options, ending Bush tax cuts, getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Then he became president. Punch in the gut #1 came in the first minute. Rick Warren. Then came cadillac taxes, and mandates, and Gitmo will still exist, just in a different address.

As I said in another thread. I apparently handle disappointment better than disillusionment.

I actually wonder sometimes what would happen if I actually got what I voted for. I remember the old saying, when God wants to punish you, he grants you all your wishes. I'm starting to think punishment can't be worse than this.

[WCGreen]

4. Our ideals are not being transformed into policy on a carte blanche

level.

Obama is not a progressive and I knew that all along. I actually preferred Edwards and Clinton but supported Obama when I knew he was going to win.

Again the alternative was the Maverick and the Mavericky which is actually worse than Bush 1.

It all goes to the point that the republicans react while we ponder.

[zipplewrath]

5. Not at all

Whether one considered him progressive or not, one can't claim "our" ideals are being tranformed into policy. Other than the Blue Dogs and some of the more conservative dems, I really can't find anyone that would have campaigned upon much of this. Heck, Obama campaigned against some of it.

[Dr Morbius]

2. "Moral Clarity" by Susan Neiman.

Sounds like a book I'd really enjoy. I fancy myself something of a philosopher myself, so that's the basis of my interest. My belief is that our educational system is designed to teach students to really think independently and rationally only when they reach college, and this is far too late. The rudiments of logic are only taught today with geometry, and are not applied to critical reasoning. We as a nation don't teach our kids to think. We hope the teachers do it, but that isn't their job. Their jobs hinge on getting kids to pass the material; our laws say so.

Kids are having sex for five to six years before they even get to college, if indeed they get there.

What has this to do with morality in America today? Everything. Most folks don't realize morality - when practiced, as opposed to taught and preached - is entirely connected with reason. Reason is how we decide whether to act or not to act, and when we stop ourselves before we do harm. And we are not taught how to reason! If we are lucky we pick it up somehow, but many do not ever reason for themselves. Not being able to think, they let others think for them. They allow a moral code to be imposed upon them, without reasoning why it's wrong to do this or that.

All things are connected. Reason absent compassion is evil, and compassion absent reason is fruitless. Either or both without temperance is dangerous. The highest virtue is balance, and almost none of us know that. Once this idea defined Americans; reach to be the best in every way. Now, our moral compass has no axis upon which to turn, and in a free nation, that axis must of necessity be rational thought.

But I go on and on about such things. I must read this book! Thank you.

[JDPriestly]

3. And look who, in revolutionary America, had access to a printing press.

Benjamin Franklin had a whole newspaper to which he wrote controversial letters to the editor under pseudonyms. And then there was George Washington's friend, Thomas Paine.

Prior to that, in France, people like Voltaire, Montesquieu, Diderot and others with important questions about society managed to get the chance to publish their writings.

I will continue to ask a lot of this administration. Obama promised openness and integrity when he ran. He made a lot of promises -- about how he would fund Social Security, about health care insurance reform, about closing Guantanamo. He hasn't kept very many of his promises. I'm still waiting.

I realize he has to work with Congress. I wouldn't want it any other way. He was so persuasive before he was elected.

I cannot help but think that he did not hire the most effective aids. Too many of them are not on the same page that he and those who supported him before his election are. That's why so many of us are so bitterly disillusioned. Timothy Geithner? Bernanke? Rahm Emmanuel? Obama could have made better choices.

[WCGreen]

6. The printing press was still new at that time...

Remember the end part of that quote about being able to afford with time and money.

I do not agree with a lot of what President Obama has done however I am pragmatic enough to know that the alternative is much much worse.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. Recommended...