DU LAW & CRIMINAL LAW WHIZ'S-I NEED URGENT ADVICE ON A CASE! PLEASE HELP!!!

[Corey_Baker08]

To begin I live in the state of Ohio in a very conservative rural county. On October 30, 2009 I was cited for minor consumption by my local OHio police agency. I have not taken so much as a drink since then and even turning 21 in a month I do not plan to drink. To get to the point though...

I plead not guilty to the charge of Underage Consumption. I was appointed a court appointed attorney who not only myself but my family believed he was not representing in my best interest and he was a bad lawyer to me. My Lawyer and I reached a plea agreement with the prosecutor with the stipulations being 60 days in county jail with 57 of the suspended and 3 to serve. Also I was fined $850 and was given the opportunity to work off my fines through a community service program in which the stipulation was that I had 30 days from the date I was sentenced,December 1, 2009, to complete however much community service I did they would deduct $10 an hour off of my fines. Unfortunately just 1 week after my court appearance I was taken in for a major ear surgery, the 4th of my lifetime. Due to this surgery I was advised not to be in outside cold temperatures therefore I could not complete any of the 30 days I had to do the community service which was going $10 an hour to pay off my balance of $850 in fines.

As the begining of the year approached I made several small payment towards my fines totalling somewhere around $200. Then just like many Americans around the country, my father lost his job as well as my mother who eventually took a factory job paying a measely $7.50/hour. The point I am getting at though is that for the first 6 months of the year and the first 6 months of my sentencing, every dollar I made at my job went directly to helping pay my parents rent, and help out with the electric bills, and other items that most would consider the basic essential of life. Believe me I made every effort I could to pinch and squeeze to pay on my fines and pay my fines off. Yet unfortunately after applying for several loans I was declined because I have no credit and the banks are not making 'risky loans' anymore to someone like myself with no real assets.

I just recieved a letter notifying me that I am due to appear in Ohio County Court on May 18,2010 for a probation revocation hearing. Basically meaning that because my financial inability to pay the $850 in fines that I am going to be ordered to serve the 57 days of the terms of my probation as well as the court pays you $50 off your fines for each day you spend in jail. So I am looking at somewhere between 60-80 days in the county jail because I am not rich and have supported my family who has supported me my whole life, I wasn't about to let my parents live on the streets because I had to pay my fines, I have better morals than that.

I tried to fire my court appointed lawyer because he is not working in my best interest and the clerk of courts informed me I could not do that, I am stuck with him.

I am praying that when I go into Court on Tuesday that I can explain to the Judge whom I know on a personal level since i was young, even working on her campaign to be judge because she was a Democrat. The thing that I pray will help her realize it would be counterproductive of the court to put me in jail because of my inability to pay my fines.

I am a full time college student majoring in Criminal Justice and I am on the A-B Honor Roll at my college. I have held a job since I was 14 years old, and I have just recently been hired on at a new job in the city I live in making more money than I ever have and being a productive member of the community paying taxes like everyone else.

Also I have just today won the Presidency of the American Criminal Justice Association Delta Alpha Upsilon Fraternity Chapter, which consist of over 200 members and I am a first quarter student!

I could really use some advice guys even if ur not legal experts I have been beating myself up over this, if I do go to jail I get kicked out of college, lose my presidency, and lost my new job.

Can I ask for a Continuance for a certain amount of time so I can raise the money to pay off the fines before I have to go to court next?

Any Advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Hawkeye-X]

1. If you know the judge

Call her, ask her for advice. Maybe she can help you when she sees you next week - by dismissing the whole thing.

IANAL, i know it's ex-parte conversation.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. I second this.

Also- slip her an Andrew Jackson to make it go away.

[Hekate]

2. Hopefully someone will invite you to PM them, but this is probably not the right venue

KnR anyway. Best of luck.

Hekate

[Corey_Baker08]

36. You Where Right This Turned Into A Bash Fest At My Expense!

I was simply seeking a little legal advice but damn these armchair lawyers on here act like I commited Murder and I am trying to get away with it. WTF

[EFerrari]

3. I'm not a lawyer but you need to get a note from your doctor

that verifies your ear story. And kicking for more responses. :kick:

[csziggy]

4. Try to talk to another lawyer

The Ohio Bar Association, same as most, has a lawyer referral service that will let you talk to a lawyer for an initial consultation for a minimal fee: http://www.ohiobar.org/Pages/staticPageViewer.aspx?articleid=72

Aside from that - and this is NOT legal advice - I would get letters from my parents about their job loss and how much you have helped them; from professors at your college about your grade point average; from the fraternity about your participation; from your future employer about your upcoming job; from your doctor about your inability to work under the conditions required by the community service (you should have done that at the time, you probably would have avoided a lot of this); and from anyone else you can get to write you letters of recommendation. Take those to the judge and use the information in them to make your case.

[Dogmudgeon]

5. Call a legal aid agency pronto

Just click on --> http://www.google.com/search?q=ohio+legal+aid&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8">Ohio Legal Aid Google searches

Good luck!

--d!

[harkadog]

6. You have a very poor record with this court.

You are full of excuses -- none of which I would accept from any of my clients. Your main problem is lack of communication with the court. You have problems -- like all of us either have had or have -- but you are not telling the court about them. That is why they are doing a probation revocation. They don't want to do this but you have given them little choice. Having you in jail costs them money and they will bend over backward to avoid that. 1) First do not under any circumstances call the judge as another poster has suggested. You would be asking a judge to commit an ethical violation for your benefit. That would be the stupidest thing you could do. 2) When you go to court fully explain your circumstances (makes notes beforehand and practice your statement. You can bring notes with you into the court) and apologize for not keeping the court informed. 3) You can ask for a continuance but you better be able to show the court a specific way and a specific amount of time of how you are going to pay the fines. If you try some more b.s. about "paying what you can when you can" you can expect to be thrown in jail and you will be the one responsible. Not the court, not your family, you.

[Corey_Baker08]

10. I Understand and Respect Your Criticism of My Handling Of This Case

[librechik]

55. listen to that guy--that's your best response in the thread

sorry, truth hurts, but if you do the right thing you can recover from this.

[Supply Side Jesus]

12. Ditto

[Xithras]

50. +1 Best response in the thread.

1. "Playing the victim" doesn't work, because judges hear it all day long. Judges ALWAYS respond better to people who take full responsibility for their own actions. Life may suck, but the brutal truth is that the court doesn't care. A sentence was handed down, and it must be abided by.
   
   
2. When the OP goes to court, he should explain the circumstance, apologize to the court for not paying on time, and then present a definitive timeline for the repayment and stick to it.
   
   
3. Talking to the judge about a prior relationship would be dumb. At the worst, the judge will be recused and the OP will end up facing a total stranger. At best, it will look like brown nosing, which judges never go for in court. There's no way it could be helpful. If the judge knows the OP and there is a pre-existing positie relationship, there is no reason for the OP to bring it up.
   

The biggest problem with this poster seems to be a serious lack of communication with the court. Can't attend work program because of surgery? That's a perfectly acceptable reason for getting out of it. Call your lawyer, have him contact the court, and see if it can be rescheduled. Can't pay your fines because of a change in finances? No problem. It happens to everyone at some point. Call your attorney, have them contact the court, and see if you can arrange a new payment schedule. It's rare that the court won't take ANY money, but they will often extend the payment periods if you can show that the financial emergency is real.

At this point, if they are looking at probation revocation, the court has lost faith in his willingness to repay. The best thing he can do right now is to walk into court and demonstrate that he IS willing to repay, and have a firm but affordable payment plan in hand.

Of course, if it's already progressed to a revocation hearing, there's a very real possibility that it's too late. It's really at the judges discretion. Apologize. Take responsibility. Offer an alternate plan that meets the court ordered obligations and is superior to jail.

ON EDIT:

Sorry, gotta withdraw the "Best Response" title. ChoppinBroccoli down below wrote this up far better than either of us.

[Coco2]

72. Absolutely 'Spot on' advice. there is no better possible. n/t

[Atticus]

7. The clerk misinformed you. You are not "stuck with" a public defender that you do not trust or

want to represent you. Instruct your lawyer in writing that you want them to withdraw and that you intend to represent yourself. He or she should file a Motion to Withdraw and have an Order entered granting the motion.

Call your probation officer immediately and make an appointment ASAP. Explain your situation and assure him/her that you fully intend to do your public service work and ask if they will support your request to the Court to, essentially, start over. Their support is important and is usually all you will need to get more time to complete your obligations.

Do NOT call the judge directly. This is innappropriate and could result in your friendly judge having to recuse herself, i.e., remove herself from further participation in your case.

Once your attorney withdraws, you can speak directly to the prosecutor if they are willing. They MAY be understanding and agree to a "do over".

Take some verification of your situation with you when meeting with either your PO or the prosecutor---medical records, a letter from your doctor, verification of the lost job, etc.

Most counties these days are not anxious to spend money to incarcerate non-violent offenders if there is any other reasonable alternative. Give them one.

Good Luck.

[Corey_Baker08]

8. Very Great Advice Thank-You So Much

[crazyjoe]

9. My advice is to pack your bags

[Corey_Baker08]

11. Ya I Also Think Its Funny That IM on The Verge Of Getting Kicked Out of School And Losing My Job!

All for the simple reason that I am not rich and cannot pay my fines in a timely manner.

[crazyjoe]

52. look, that's why they call it "punishment". I've never heard so may excuses

Grow up

[Mojeoux]

70. Mean bitter Joe is more like it

All she did was drink underage.
She doesn't need to go to jail and she sure doesn't need your grouchy comments.

The lack of communication with the departments involved can screw up everything.

Just follow the good advice you've gotten so far.
Communicate, communicate, communicate

[johnaries]

13. My advice is not exactly PC, but to quote a colloquillism

"Man Up!" You fucked up. There is no "good" outcome. Accept responsibilty, take your lumps, and learn from the experience. Stop thinking that because of your accomplishments you deserve any kind of "special treatment".

It's really hard for me to believe that they picked you out because you had 1 minor infraction years prior.

[guruoo]

15. That's not 'manning up',

that's masochism.

[Corey_Baker08]

17. It Wasn't Years Prior it Was 6 Months Ago................

Theyve given me 6 months to pay off my fines and just like millions of Americans the past 6 months have been the hardest times financially for my family and if it wasn't for me holding a job my parents would have lost their house. Im not asking for your sympathy and I am 'Manning Up' if I wasn't I would have said fuck it and just skipped the court date.

Its not the point of the consequence of going to jail, I am prepared for that, its the inevitable outcome that because I go to jail I will get kicked out of college and lose my new job, my life is on the right track and I believe it would be counterproductive of the court to imprison someone who has not violated the law to get his probation revoked, I simply couldn't pay them the money.

Im 20 years old working for minimum wage and going to school full time, I come from a poor family, I don't have $850 just laying around.

[snooper2]

82. They are not going to put you in jail for months...

It's just not going to happen...Trust me- they have bigger fish to fry

At MOST you might have to do a weekend stint that won't effect your job or schooling. I've been in a way worse mess than you are and didn't spend a minute in the clink :)

Here's an FYI, never drive to a probation office without a valid drivers license. Even parking a couple blocks down and walking the rest doesn't work... (I know :P )

[azureblue]

14. document everything

At your revocation hearing, you will need everything documented to explain to the court why you have had difficulties. This is what you need to stop right away. You are not lost, but you must present an organized and convincing case to the judge on Tuesday, and try to get a retrial. You can file for appeal on grounds of under- representation, but that could get beyond your scope really quickly. But you need to document and reference everything, including your awards, your folks work problems, your grades in school, testimony from noted people that you do not drink, etc. Phone calls, calling records, subject of phone calls, dates of events listed chronologically. If you know a cop or preacher who likes you, have them appear in court with you as a character witness. You can ask for a continuance for reasons of hardship, ill health, home problems. Reasons of your attorney is not up to speed on your case.

My suggestion is to try for a continuance, then work on getting a retrial, with a new attorney.

Do not just fire your attorney. Fire him and ask for a retrial. Write down what and when he did things that led you to believe that he was not acting in your best interest, before, during, and after your trial. Do not refer to him by name in court, simply say "my court appointed attorney". You can name names on paper, but in court, keep the decorum and don't personalize the issue. Judges don't like officers of the court being called into question, but they will examine their actions, if presented with enough evidence that you did not get adequate representation. From my experiences with public defenders, there are a few you just want to get the case over with as fast as possible, no matter guilt or innocence, and I gather that is what you got stuck with. The idea is to get a retrial, if you can provide enough evidence that your attorney's lack of interest in your case caused you to be found guilty. Were you holding a bottle / cup with alcohol in it when the cops grabbed you? Were you in the presence of others who were drinking, but you did not have a drink in your hand? Was there a sobriety test? There should have been. If there isn't one, or it was "lost" then that is grounds for a retrial request. The point is to find a flaw in how they charged you with under age drinking, and usually, there is one. If there was one, and it proved you were sober, then that needs to be shown to the judge when you ask for a retrial.

Do not get chummy with the judge, unless she opens that door- even then, do not get any chummier than she gets- she is still the judge, even though you once knew her as Susie who scraped her knee. Do not assume she will be swayed by your friendship. Address her as if you have never met her before. You should ask the judge if you may be allowed to address the court in an informal matter, and apologize for doing so - ask for the court's leniency. But that does not mean you can get friendly, name call, suppose, or sling accusations- you still should present your case in a clear, factual, and well documented manner.

You will need to ask for suspension of penalties, probation, etc., until the matter is resolved. If you present a good enough reason for a retrial, you can probably get it. But wait until the judge has heard your evidence to ask for that.


Good luck.

[Corey_Baker08]

16. So You Think It Would Be A Good Idea To Make A Formal Statement During Court....?

I really want to make a formal statement in court to the judge that I will have written out and memorized making note that I am a full time college student majoring in criminal justice with no past criminal history and that I have a new job that I am making better money than my last one, so I would be more able to pay off the fines, that I am President of a 200 member American Criminal Justice Fraternity at my College, and about my families financial difficulties and my willingness to ensure that my family was able to keep a home over our head?

I would really like to make a statement including these things and ask for a continuance and then during the continuance I can do the community service and by the next court date walk in there with my community service done?

Thanks for all ur advice you are very intelligent!

[Solomon]

62. I'm a lawyer and I used to do criminal cases. I agree with

number 6, except that I would place a heavy emphasis on medical records medical records medical records. I warn you though, it will only look like a bad excuse if you bring up the ear problem, but not be able to back it up.

[lib2DaBone]

18. I could be wrong..but I think you can file a "motion for a continuance"...

.. and ask for a hearing.. to show why you didn't complete the Community Service on time. Then..if the judge grants you a hearing..you can ask for an extention to finish the hours. It's worth a shot.

It all depends if you are past your case deadline from the original disposition, at which time a warrant is issued and you have to post a new bond.(or go to jail) That's why time is of the essence....

I'm surprised the Public Defender didn't suggest this.

The Public Defenders are over-worked with case loads beyond belief... but if you camp out in their office you will get an appointment.

[Corey_Baker08]

22. The Letter Did Say "Continuance will Be Granted Only After Leave of Court is First Obtained"

Any Idea What That Means? The only thing my Lawyer advised me to do was as much community service between now and next Tuesday as possible. I have 85 hours all together and while I know I cant do it all by Tuesday, if I can get a good portion of it done, the go to court on Tuesday and show the judge I have been working to make it right and ask for a 14 day continuance and then finish the hours off by the time my next court date came around?

This is effectively what my lawyer kinda suggested

[Corey_Baker08]

23. What Does This Mean??continuances will be granted only after leave of court is first obtained?????

I really need a continuance on this case and then I can complete the community service says my lawyer.

[harkadog]

47. It means the court has to grant the continuance.

You ask them for one and they decide whether to give it to you or not. You can't get one just because you applied for it.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

27. I agree with your lawyer

Do NOT fire him, do NOT represent yourself, do NOT call the judge.

DO: Ask for a continuance. Call your lawyer tomorrow and tell him to file whatever papers he needs to file, but you need more time. Most courts are happy to grant at least one or two continuances, for good cause. Once you have a continuance you have some breathing room to get your shit together.

DO: Continue to do as much community service as you can.

DO: Collect documentation as to the following:

- Your ear surgery
- Your employment history and lack thereof, and any documentation showing financial hardship (bank records?)
- ALL your school transcripts, including awards, credits, honors, anything
-letters of reference from family, teachers, friends, saying what a good/trustworthy/law abiding/honest kid you are. You may or may not need to use them but they'll be good to have.

DO: Talk to your probation officer if you have one! You may not have a probation officer assigned to you though. In many jurisdictions, only felony probations are supervised by individual probation officers.

DO: Get all the documentation above to your lawyer and make sure he presents it to the probation department. Your lawyer should be working with probation to resolve the issue. If probation is on your side when you eventually go to court, so much the better! Judges love to follow the recommendation of probation - takes the heat off the judge.

When the hearing comes, DO have your parents and anybody who is available come to court and sit in the audience to support you, and tell your lawyer to make sure the judge is aware that these people are there in court to support you. DO dress up for the hearing, and act remorseful. (EDIT: This part only really applies if your lawyer hasn't worked something out prior to the hearing. It's most likely that you won't even go to a full-blown hearing. Having people come to court is a good idea when your fate is in the hands of the judge, but if something's already worked out beforehand, no need to have mom and dad come sit in court...)

DO NOT: Worry about going to jail. For a first time probation violation, it is unlikely that they're gonna impose the full 60 day sentence. On an MIP? I just don't see it. Unless your local court system is incredibly wealthy or incredibly fascist, I think the chances of you doing any jail time on this are minimal. Especially when you can show the court what an oustanding young citizen you are.

DO NOT listen to all the armchair lawyers on this thread, especially the ones blaming you, telling you to "man up" and do your time. FUCK THAT. Yes, you let this thing get away from you, but you're gonna get things under control, it's a very minor crime, it's your first screw-up on probation and you're not exactly a career criminal. These people gleefully telling you to go to jail are nuts. You do not belong in jail for this stupid crap, and I have to think the court's going to see that. The caveat is I don't practice in Ohio and maybe you live in the midst of a Kafkaesque hellscape nightmare from which there is no awakening. Short of that, just get your shit together and make an appointment to meet with your lawyer. You're going to be fine.

You may have made a mistake in taking the deal in the first place. The disposition seems unduly harsh to me. But that may be Ohio. At this point, that's water under the bridge and it's unlikely an appeal is going to be successful or worth the time and effort - not in a minor-in-possession case. Which reminds me: however this turns out, DO go back to court in a year and get it expunged off your record.

I am a criminal defense lawyer, and although I don't practice anywhere near your neck of the woods, I handle plenty of cases like yours and I think I know whereof I speak. I participate as a criminal law expert on a site where legal experts answer questions, and I've noticed that the answers to questions from all over the country are very similar to the answers to questions from California. So I feel confident that my advice to you is sound. However, no attorney-client relationship is created by this reply and you should ALWAYS consult an attorney in your area. If you really don't like how your attorney is handling the case, see if your local bar association will refer you to another attorney just for a consultation. The initial consultation is usually free.

Best of luck! Deep breaths! Start collecting documents and get that continuance!

[Corey_Baker08]

34. Thank You So Much For This To Be Able To Get Sound Advice & Support From A Fellow DU'er Is Nice!!!

I will call him first thing in the morning and ask him to file paperwork for a continuance because the letter says "CONTINUANCES WILL BE GRANTED ONLY AFTER LEAVE OF COURT IS FIRST OBTAINED"

Does That Statement above mean that My lawyer has to file papers in advance?

Or

Does it mean that I have to appear in court and ask for a continuance?

[harkadog]

48. Normally either one but it is best to apply in advance.

So you don't waste the court's time with a hearing.

[lib2DaBone]

51. Don't call the Pub Defender... go to the office and sit there...

.. you are running out of time.. you need a face-to-face ASAP...

[TexasObserver]

83. This! This! This! Ignore most of the others.

OMG, reading this thread makes me understand why so many citizens get in so much trouble over small criminal cases. They listen to people who don't know what they're talking about!

I DON'T handle criminal cases. I refer all criminal matters to a criminal attorney, because even though I'm a lawyer with decades of court experience, I'm not a criminal defense attorney. There's a reason even lawyers get criminal defense lawyers for their family members, their friends and their clients. It's because criminal defense lawyers know how to best navigate those dangerous waters.

I know more than I want to know about such courts, because even when one doesn't do criminal work, there's an endless stream of relatives, friends, acquaintences, business associates, neighbors, and so on who need to know what to do about their kid who got popped for some minor crime. Invariably, the defendant messes things up before getting a lawyer involved.

[TorchTheWitch]

19. what did you do when the financial and health problems came up?

Did you tell your attorney? Did you try to work out another arrangement for payment obligations or community service obligations? What did you actually do when you first realized you couldn't make a payment or when you first realized you couldn't do a certain type of community service and what was the result?

It seems apparent that the court believes you've simply blown off both your finanacial and community service obligations for no reason. What is the reason the court was not being informed of these issues and workable solution worked out? A financial crisis and a health issue are legitimate reasons to work out another arrangement with the court, and they would have had they known about these issues because they don't want to put you in jail. What happened? Did you drop the ball on informing anyone and trying to work out another arrangement or did your attorney?

[Obamanaut]

20. Isn't it true that in Oct '09 you posted something about this, and that

in your post you explained that two years previously there was another incident with underage drinking?

And there are posts re cough syrup.

Is it possible that you have abused substances, and that this abuse has led to some of this?

Speak w/ the Court, arrange a repayment schedule.

Leave the mind-altering substances alone, they are not your friends.

[Corey_Baker08]

21. Yes Oct 09 Is When This Incident Took Place...

And I have certainly never abused cough syrup as you insist, no mind altering substances here I am a college student that believes I can take my own personal experiences with both sides of the law and use those effectively as tools to in fact become a better police officer because of my experiences.

You can talk down to me all you want thats fine but Ive had a job since I was 14 I graduated High School as Class President and 'Most Likely To Become President' and I have took that experience on with me to College where I am the President of an American Criminal Justice Association Fraternity with over 200 members.

Yea I come from a family that hasn't ever been blessed with money but I havent let that get me down, in fact I learned from there situations and I am stronger because of it, I am also the first in my family to go to College so im doing my best.

Also I have personally met President Obama, Sen.John Kerry, John Edwards,Gov Ted Strickland, Sen. Sherrod Brown, SOS Jennifer Brunner,Sen.Evan Bayh, Sen.Dick Luger, and unfortunately IN Governor Mitch Daniels. The Point of my telling you this is to show you that I am not just some drugged out 20 year old in trouble with the law, I have never been arrested in my entire life and I have been active in politics since I was very young. So Don't Judge Me Please!

[Obamanaut]

25. OK. According to your posts, there was an incident two years

prior to the 2009 one. There was a post where you spoke from personal experience re taking a double dose of some sort of over-the-counter sleep med, there are these as well:


Cough syrup http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2975783 here's another snippet added "...The directions say to not exceeed 1 teespoon every 4 hours. Well I was bored so I took 4 Tablespoons...."



Underage drinking and driving
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9103636 ETA this snippit "...The Judge in the case who Ive dealt with on a prior Minor Consumption 2 years ago..."



Here’s one stating age of 16 and drunk
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=273x36784

Name drop as much as makes you feel better, but there is a several year history of abuse of substances - with those years being under the legal one.

Reread some of your posts - they include excuses such as the doctor told you that your equilibrium is off, you had ear surgery, you were stressed - it's all something or someone else, never your responsibility.

[Egnever]

26. Yup this one is full of it

He also had no trouble working ... supposedly... but was unable to do community service. Time to man up and admit his bullshit and pray the judge has mercy on him. If he goes ahead with this attempt to manipulate the court he is going to end up with the full time behind bars. If in fact this whole story isn't BS

Nice catch on the old posts.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proteus_lives]

29. Slam-Dunk.

No wonder he hasn't responded.

If these stories aren't BS, then he's in full denial.

[Corey_Baker08]

31. Thanks 4 The Trip Down Memory Lane But Come On I Was 15 & 16 Years Old.....

I took two tablespoons of cough syrup to much at 15 years old after getting it presicribed to me by my doctor, I was 15 I Was Sick and Thought The More I Take The Better I'd Feel and on that night learned the lesson of taking to much cough syrup. But I am honestly impressed I haven't seen those post since I originally posted them how did you do that?Are There Anymore? I know there was one about Election Fraud in 2004 and Other Post that actually reflected my true character even at such a young age. I guess I just dont understand your problem with me?

Also As Far as the getting Drunk at 16 going on 17 by the way, who the hell hasn't? Come on tell me you are so perfect you never got drunk before you turned 21? I do find the post hilariously embarrassing and it really showed me how much I have matured since then! Thanks for that one I really enjoyed it!

As For the October of 2009 Post I have been referring to where in the original post I stated that I had been charged with a DUI. I Plead Not Guilty to the DUI on the grounds the pull over occured without just cause as my lawyer proved that the speeding charge was false because there was only 50 feet between each stop sign and from one stop sign to the next theres no way my car could have accelerated to the speed of 45 miles an hour I was initially charged with and still made a complete stop at both stop signs. Subsequently the DUI and the Speeding Ticket Was dropped and I was cleared of any wrong doing except for the charge of Underage Consumption which is the case my OP is about!!!!

But I cant thank you enough for the trip down memory lane.....

[Obamanaut]

37. Well, OK.

In 2009 you say you failed a breathalizer, and in the same post you say that you had an underage drinking episode two years previously. You said you took 4 teaspoons of cough syrup because you were bored.

Alchol is not your friend. Denial has become your companion. It doesn't matter a bit what anyone else may or may not have done as youths, it is what you are doing - so stop justifying your mistakes by suggesting "everyone is doing/has done it."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9103636

From a post in Oct, 2009

I Made A Terrible Mistake This Week & Any Legal Advice or Support Would Be Welcomed!!!!

“The Judge in the case who Ive dealt with on a prior Minor Consumption 2 years ago…”

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Obamanaut]

40. One more attempt at this

In 2009 you failed the breath test. According to that post in Oct 2009 where you told the world you failed said test, you stated there had been another underage drinking episode two years prior to that. Here it is again for you:

"In 2009 you say you failed a breathalizer, and in the same post you say that you had an underage drinking episode two years previously. You said you took 4 teaspoons of cough syrup because you were bored.

Alchol is not your friend. Denial has become your companion. It doesn't matter a bit what anyone else may or may not have done as youths, it is what you are doing - so stop justifying your mistakes by suggesting "everyone is doing/has done it."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

From a post in Oct, 2009

I Made A Terrible Mistake This Week & Any Legal Advice or Support Would Be Welcomed!!!!

“The Judge in the case who Ive dealt with on a prior Minor Consumption 2 years ago…”

Those were all your words. You see, breath test 2009, prior minor consumption 2 years earlier - different instances.

In your OP tonight you asked for advice. Here's two pieces of advice. (1) Don't drink. (2) When you screw up, own it - don't blame your bad ears, your equilibrium, your friends, bad lawyers, bad judges, etc.

[Dappleganger]

56. Um...

I didn't and neither did our teenagers do that either.

You appear to have a history of not being responsible and now your proverbial chickens have come home to roost.

If you want to start over, fine. Everyone deserves a 2nd chance. Just don't try to bullshit people who offer to help you. EVER.

[HillGal]

68. You're totally missing the point, you lied in your original post and you had people

trying to help you based on a lie, then when proof is posted you use the come on I was only 16 excuse, why should you be treated better then a kid in the inner city gets treated? You need to man up and do the time, then you need to get your act together, and I particularly don't like the fact that someone who lies works on political campaigns, there's too many good honest kids out there, so get yourself together before you volunteer on another campaign.

[TK421]

79. Sounds like you posted trips down memory lane on an anonymous message board

for all to see...I suppose you should probably expect some criticism from those who have read your postings and applying your past experiences to this current situation of yours


All the same, I wish you luck ( and it seems to me you have had plenty of that to last a lifetime ) Your situation COULD be much, much worse than it is now

In the meantime, if you're looking for answers, look to post #6

[proteus_lives]

28. "So Don't Judge Me Please!"

I think you need to be judged.

Stop drinking.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proteus_lives]

39. Yeah, I drank before I was 21.

But I never got behind the wheel. Big difference.

Stop blaming everyone and everything else for your actions. It's time to grow-up and take the consequences of your actions.

[Corey_Baker08]

42. I Have a Hard Time Believing You Have Never Once In Your Entire Life Had a Drank and Drove Home?

I guarantee you have. You may have told yourself your sober enough to drive exactly like I did that night. I didn't know I was over the legal limit. The legal limit is .08 I was only at a .10 which is maybe the equivalent of a half a beer away from the legal limit. The point is Someone I loved very dearly died in a drinking and driving accident and it taught me a hell of a lesson. I didn't get in my car so fucked up I couldn't see straight or didn't know what I was doing. I assumed I was at or near the legal limit and if you've ever drank before I guarantee your not even drunk at .10 which used to be the legal limit in most states by the way.

[Obamanaut]

45. One important point you ignore here is YOU WERE UNDERAGE

but drinking anyway. And driving. Despite have a relative who died in an accident involving alcohol, teaching you absolutely nothing.

[proteus_lives]

46. Nope, never have.

Because I was raised with some responsibility.

You keep giving (making up?) examples that justify your behavior. But it's not going to fly.

It's time to grow-up son.

"I'm sure you have" -- That's called projection, my boy.

[Tailormyst]

57. I have not: NOT ONCE have I ever had a drink and gotten behind the wheel

I drink, even as a teenager I drank- I just THINK and make arrangements BEFORE I have that first drink.

Your excuses get more pathetic as you go on. "everyone" does not do the things you are doing. Thinking so just excuses the behavior in your own mind.

Man up- take responsibility, pay your fucking fines and stop looking to others to save you. Go to court, apologize for being a dumbass and hope the judge gives you some more time.

[Dappleganger]

59. It doesn't matter if the entire world drives home after a drink.

You still broke the law and put other people's lives and their BABIES lives at risk.

And no, I have never driven home after drinking. That's why non-drinking friends, a cab or a bus is for.

Your help begins the moment you admit it's your fault and you have a problem.

[wolfgangmo]

63. Never - not once.

It might be just me but I know lots of folks who make the same decisions. First, do I drink? If the answer is yes then I ain't driving. PERIOD.


Anyone who does is playing with someone elses life. Yes, that includes you. Youth isn't an excuse. Others doing it isn't an excuse. Stupidity or diminished capacity isn't an excuse.

Have you ever notice that anyone who spouts a teabag opinion on here gets their ass flamed off. The reason is that most of us on DU can't stand someone who doesn't take responsibility for thier actions.Teabaggers spout off about "keeping your hands off my medicare" while griping about "government takeover of healthcare." Most of us get that what they are saying is "I got mine so fuck you."

When you drink and drive you are saying to everyone on the road and everyone who might get in the way of your 2000 pound steel killing machine to "fuck you. So I had a drink? I have a hard time beleiveing you have never once in your entire life had a drank and drove home."

Get the point?

[HillGal]

69. I never did because I wasn't going to endanger myself or anyone else on the road who might

be innocent.

[TorchTheWitch]

89. I'm 45 and never been drunk in my life

All the alcohol I've consumed in my entire life probably wouldn't fill a Dixie cup. I was one of those people always babysitting the selfish drunks that are too fucked up to keep themselves out of trouble, and I'm no where near the only one. No, not anywhere close to "everyone" will drink and drive. The only people that make that absurd claim are those that do and for the obvious reason of trying to excuse their inexcusable behavior.

You're the one who's begging for help to keep their undeserving ass out of jail because of their underage drinking which is not even your first offense and who was extremely fortunate to have a DUI thrown out on a technicality, yet you have the absolute gall to lecture ANYONE about drinking????

STOP IT. Stop making excuses for the mess YOU got yourself into and only made worse for yourself. Stop lying. Stop trying to convince people you're really just such a great person who for some unholy reason is being persecuted by the court, the attorney, the judge, everyone here you begged for help in the eleventh hour, and hell, the whole damn world.

Corey, you're 20 years old! It's WAAAAAAY past time to ditch the total lack of personal responsibility, living in denial, persecution complex and GROW UP. And while you're at it, pick yourself up by the seat of your pants and haul your ass to AA immediately.

[Corey_Baker08]

24. ??What Does This Mean??Continuances will be granted only after leave of court is first obtained?????

If I can get a continuance I can finish my community service says my lawyer

[Taylor Mason Powell]

30. it means

your lawyer can't just show up on the day of the hearing and expect a continuance - he has to ask for it in advance, probably in writing. Different rules apply in different jurisdictions.

Having read some more of the threads here, IF your original post isn't telling us the whole story, and IF you have prior run-ins with the law, then I would revise my comments to say the likelihood of jail time may be increased. But not by much, especially if the past stuff is minor.

[Corey_Baker08]

33. PLEASE READ MY POST 31 FOR EXPLANATION OF THAT B.S. PLZ!!!

[Solomon]

64. To get a continuance, your lawyer has to file in advance, but both

you and the lawyer must show up for court anyway, present your argument for the continuance, and then hope that the judge grants it. That's what it means.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

84. Also...

If your prior record (if any) is as a juvenile, the court might not be allowed to consider it, and might not even know about it. In some jurisdictions, criminal records of minors are sealed when the person turns 18.

[Unrepentant Fenian]

41. Here's a link that should answer all your questions...

http://tinyurl.com/2dhdoya

[bridgit]

43. Your judge may find your "I know on a personal level since i was young, even working...

"...on her campaign to be judge" gambit - your recommendation instead - for her to recuse by way of entry levels of judicial blackmail. If you have no plans to revisit that tack then be prepared to have your judge regard you from her bench; as would a chicken regard a June Bug. So before you offer such a thing from your mouth look for any ques between any DA staff and the bench as for all you know they play golf and share high balls on the 9th in the shade together. Your PD should be advising you similarly

Where I live, 57 days for underage consumption (which reminds me...of what?), drinking, illegal drug use/controlled substance abuse, etc, is often met by way of serial consumptions or repetitious disruptions of shared rights to civil peace & tranquility. Or, god forbid, harms or damage to physical persons or property approaching criminal mischief or negligence

You need a criminal attorney with some experience or specialization in representing cases involving at a minimum: "Underage Consumption", and any asssociated transgressions. If there are none where you live, then call into the next town, or the one after that till you find one. Your judge will have your paperwork, contributions to fees, met dates/missed dates in front of her. As an 'underage' matter, it wouldn't surprise me if she held some information regarding the trajectory of your chosen career path. If so, she may not even offer it first, but as a focal point reestablishing any wayward clarity; and that's when I'd be prepared to hear,

"Mr. Baker, I...um, I (rifling papers); yes, it has been noted that as the newly elected President of the American Criminal Justice Association Delta Alpha Upsilon Fraternity Chapter - and so: possible officer of the court, Sir - your longterm interests would have been better serviced to be more fully apprised of the seriousness of this matter and in advance"

You need an attorney, and not just a PD willing to collect a check till they can hang their own shingle

[laylah]

44. Maybe this will help...

I would take documentation of EVERYTHING to court with you. A letter from your doctor, from your parents re: their employment situation this last year, your award, copies of your transcript, any proof of educational excellence, get written personal references from professors, etc. Dress appropriately, approach this judge as if she is a stranger and respectfully lay your case out.

I wish you luck, Corey. Keep us posted :hug:

Jenn

[ChoppinBroccoli]

49. I'm A Criminal Defense Lawyer In Columbus

Not sure I can offer a whole lot more insight based solely on what I've read so far, especially not knowing what County we're talking about. So here's my "quick and dirty" of what my take on the whole situation is.

1. Having bad circumstances happen to you is not a crime. Your mistake was not keeping your probation officer up-to-date with everything that was going on. Courts and Judges and P.O.s will bend over backwards to work with you, but you have to keep them in the loop. Since you didn't, they can only assume you're like the 10,000 probationers they have who are blatantly thumbing their noses at the system. And how would they know any different if you didn't bother to tell them? OK, scolding over. You now know your mistake; the next step is correcting it.

2. Whatever you do, don't call the Judge. She probably wouldn't take your call anyway, and it opens up a whole bunch of different things, all of which are bad. And for the love of all things holy, DON'T represent yourself. If you don't like your court-appointed attorney, ask the Court for a different one. If they won't appoint someone different, you're going to have to swallow hard and hire your own. Speaking as an attorney who does court-appointed cases, I can tell you that about 90% of Defendants gripe about their attorney not being any good (they usually say this because their free attorney didn't pull off a Johnny Cochran-style miracle and let them walk away from a dead-bang conviction--as a prominent New York defense attorney once said, "Court-appointed attorneys are people who do the impossible for the ungrateful"), but I don't see anything in ANY of your posts that leads me to think that he did a bad job. So your choices are to roll with him, try to have him replaced (not likely), or dig into your pocket and hire someone you DO trust. But if you represent yourself, you might as well just report to the jail. I once heard a Judge describe it this way, and I've never forgotten it: He said, "A dentist is competent to perform a root canal, but a dentist would be a damn fool to try to perform HIS OWN root canal."

3. If you think you need more time to complete your hours, don't bank on the fact that you're going to get a continuance. You probably won't get one (especially in a small county). But there ARE ways to delay the final result if you think it will help you. Probation Revocations, under Ohio Law, are split into two phases, the "Probable Cause" phase and the "Mitigation" phase. You're entitled to TWO hearings on any Probation Revocation. So if delaying is your tactic, what you could do is enter an admission to the "Probable Cause" and ask for a second hearing date on the "Mitigation." Essentially, what you'll be doing is admitting that the probation officer had enough probable cause to file a violation (meaning, you admit that you actually violated the rules of your probation--which you did; whether or not you had a good reason for it doesn't matter, that's what mitigation is for). Then, if you're granted a second "Mitigation" date, come back ready to argue all the things you discussed above. And bring evidence of everything. Inundate the Court with evidence that you didn't just blow off your hours, but that you had good, solid reasons for not paying on time.

4. Be repentant! Apologize for not keeping your P.O. in the loop and admit to the Court that you NOW realize that was a mistake. If you go in there with an attitude like YOU'RE being inconvenienced by all this, you should be prepared to go out the back door.

5. Be prepared to go to jail. At the end of the day, you violated your probation. I'm sorry, but there's just no two ways about it. The rules said X, you didn't do X. I know several Judges whose analysis of the situation will STOP right there. They don't care WHY you violated your probation rules, because probation was your "last chance" with them. Time to accept responsibility. If your Judge is one of these types, it doesn't matter what you say, how much you cry, or how much your life will be ruined by going to jail. They'll simply give you an icy stare and say, "you should have thought of that 6 months ago." And honestly, you really SHOULD have thought of it back then. It's nice that you gave your money to your parents and all, but if you'd chosen to give the money to the Court instead, your parents wouldn't be trying to put you in jail right now. If I had to make a choice between 2 people to pay, I'd always choose to pay the person who could put me in jail if I stiffed him. EVERY time. If I had all the things to lose that you're worried about losing right now, I would have paid the Court and not my parents. You made a different choice, and here we are.

6. Negotiate with the Prosecutor. A LOT of times, I've successfully kept my clients out of jail simply by coming to an agreement with the Prosecutor that we'd agree to admit the violation in exchange for a recommendation that my client be reinstated to probation and given additional time to complete whatever he/she needed to complete. Your lawyer should be doing this for you, but a lot of times Prosecutors won't negotiate PVs. Why? Same reason as the Judges above. They view it as your last chance and you f'ed it up, so why should they bend over backwards to give you ANOTHER last chance?


Look, don't take this as a lecture, but just take it for what it is. You were given a chance on probation and you DID F it up. Your options are very limited at this point because YOU made bad choices and bad decisions. All you had to do was pick up a phone and explain your circumstances to your P.O. back in December and you wouldn't be in this position today. Learn from you mistakes. That being said, do everything in your power to mitigate your violation (or rather, to give good reasons why you shouldn't be locked up for your mistakes). But at the end of the day, you're likely going to see a lot of very unsympathetic faces at the Prosecutor's table and on the Judge's bench. So if all your efforts fail, serve your days, learn what you can from the experience, get out, and then start putting your life back together.

I don't know what County we're talking about here, so my answers are all very sketchy. And if it's one near Columbus, there's a good chance that I can probably help you. Just like everything in life, it will cost you some money (and judging by this entire thread, you probably don't have it), but I am willing to help. At this late stage of the game, I don't know that there's all THAT much I could do (your court-appointed attorney should be doing some of these things behing the scenes right now), but the offer is out there. If this happens to be a Judge I know, I might be able to offer you some more insight than what I've given here.

[Dappleganger]

58. Best advice yet.

No. 4 and 5 in particular.

Accept complete responsibility w/out any excuses, accept whatever the judge decides.

IMO the OP should speak as LITTLE as possible to the judge (very brief answers, no more than a sentence or two at most) because if he does he's going to find himself in a whole lot more trouble based upon what he's written in this thread.

Also, is there a way to ask for a rehab program of any kind (don't know if that's an option)?


As an aside, about 9 years ago we took in a homeless 19 yr. old boy who needed another chance. He had every excuse in the book for pretty much every wrong choice he ever made. Bottom line is he didn't ever understand that he had CHOICES and that only HE could make. The only truly bad luck he had was an alcoholic mother and no father around. We tried our best w/him but he eventually had to leave. He's in a MI state prison to this day. :(

[Taylor Mason Powell]

77. Good advice!

Corey, if you're still reading this, listen to ChoppinBroccoli! (great screenname, by the way! Long live Dana Carvey!) - this is excellent advice. If Choppin's advice differs from the advice I gave you above, you should definitely go with what Choppin' says, because he/she practices in Ohio.

Good luck!

[blaze]

90. Great advice!!

You just got some great, inside track advice here. And you didn't even have to pay a fee!!

Choppin', thanks for taking your time to share your experience and the true alternatives our OP needs to look at.

Your advice seems very straight forward, nonjudgmental and carefully thought out.

Thanks.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

53. Prepare a dance routine.

Impress the judge with your mad skilllz.

Then, when you're cleared of your wrong doing, go on a wolverine hunting trip with your uncle in Alaska.

[aikoaiko]

60. Talk to your lawyer or another, approach the PO apologetically and take full responsibility...

have a plan to pay off what you owe plus late fines, and work with your lawyer to get more time.

Sell everything you can to raise money. Don't take classes this summer. Work and get out of this.

When you talk to the PO or judge, don't come across as a victim of circumstance.

[ohheckyeah]

61. You got good advice

in this thread from two attorneys. All the rest of this is just noise (including my post). Shake the criticism off, quit worrying about defending yourself here, and follow the advice of those lawyers.

And if you have a drinking problem get yourself to AA.

Good luck.

[wolfgangmo]

66. Good advice.

If you even think you might, maybe, possibly have a drinking problem go to AA. Find out BEFORE your life is flushed.

As an aside, as a former officer, your excuses may be a habit that you picked up from your folks, or it might be your own brand of BS, but it won't fly in most departments. Most cops will not partner or want to be on shift with someone who is always making excuses for their stupid decision. If you are going into criminal justice (it's kinda a BS degree - FYI - don't stop there if you want a career) then you need to get this taken care of. Do your homework. @ lawyers have given you solid advice, mostly consisting of getting your documentation together.

Do that, explain to the judge how you are changing things (FYI - attending AA and offering to continue with court monitoring is not a bad idea if you have a history of underaged drinking and driving or other illicit use charges in your background. Have a plan to pay the fine and then PAY IT.

And if you are lucky and have done your homework you might, might, get a walk with just the fine.

But if you whine at that judge - you are dog meat. Just sayin.

[Tsiyu]

65. While others try to make you feel smaller

let me just inform you that, when many of those downers on this thread were 20, they were legally allowed to drink in the United States. Hell, they were legally allowed to drink when they were 18.

Now they're all up in arms over this heinous "crime" you've committed. Fucking lock-stock-and-barrel HYPOCRITES

Well, fuck them.

i think it is absolutely ridiculous that you are going through any of this. Our society is so fucked up, and your situation proves it.

Welcome to your nation, where we exploit our young and our elderly alike!

[ohheckyeah]

67. Actually,

many of us were too busy smoking pot to drink at that age. :-)

[HillGal]

71. Oh please, you're being an enabler, the person lied in their original post, and they didn't

realize that people could search and find out the truth. The person was caught lying and just made up an excuse, he needs to man up and pay his debt to society, and at least all those days in jail innocent men women and children will be safe on the roads.

[Codeine]

73. On the other hand,

some of us aren't that age, have never driven drunk, and did not drink as teens.

This kid is full of whiny rationalizations and was too dimwitted to just call the court and explain "I can't do my hours right now because of an ear surgery. what can I do to fix this?" They'd have given him an extension, because they don't have time to deal with nonsense like that.

Instead it's "Woe is me! You all drive drunk, all of you!!! I was a KID!" etc. etc. etc. Excuses and more excuses, rather than a simple acceptance of responsibility and an acknowledgement that he's clearly got alcohol/substance abuse issues.

Lame, weak, and small.

[Tsiyu]

74. There are some things that should be crimes

wagin unjust wars

taking a giant oil wizz in the ocean

torturing anyone

gambling and losing other people's money without their consent

rape

thievery

and so on.



Drinking when 20 is not one of those things I consider a crime. If this was his only offense...and anyone who believes it should be a crime is a puritanical dweeb in my opinion.

I drank when I was 20, legally. Cops were not out to demonize kids back then, and municipalities were not out to soak them for every dime they didn't make.

My opinion, of course, but we didn't have nearly the prison state we have today - way back when.

[Codeine]

75. Our opinions differ.

I think he's an irresponsible, whiny little twerp with an inflated sense of self-importance. He's also had DUI issues due to his underage drinking, which were also accompanied by rationalizations about "everyone doing it." The kid has a history of avoiding responsibility for his actions.

And you are right about something. I'm willing to be honest; on some level I AM a bit of a Puritanical dweeb when it comes to booze and drugs, and even moreso when their use is accompanied by an endless bunch of pathetic, childish whining and tired excuses. That's just me -- I don't see where any good comes of people weakening themselves that way.

Am I out of step with DU on this issue? Probably. C'est la vie. I am who I am.

[Obamanaut]

91. "

[Obamanaut]

76. It isn't that the drinking is a heinous crime. It is, instead, a combination

of things.

An aunt who died in a drinking related accident did not warn him that these things can happen, suddenly.

A penalty imposed by the court system, combined with an ailment - one week after the sentence was to begin - that hampered meeting the terms of that sentence, and the wait of several months to do anything to resolve this, and only then after being threatened by the judicial system.

This instance brought about by blowing above the legal limit, while underage for drinking legally, with a complaint that it was only a little over the legal limit, and the last instance of underage drinking was more than two years ago. Nothing learned from the earlier adventure.

An admission that a prescribed cough syrup was abused because of boredom.

All in all, a pronounced reluctance to accept the consequences of his own actions.

[Tsiyu]

87. Oh for Fuck's sake let's crucify him already

jesus h on a Hockey stick

I think I've landed at a convent

or a Focus on the Family board or something.

Get over yourselves

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

88. I've never heard of somebody getting three days in jail for consumption by minor.

I find the idea ridiculous.

Unless, of course, there's a lot on his record that he's not telling us. And there's reason posted above to believe that's true.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

78. A lot of finger-wagging church ladies on this board!

Surprising, the level of condemnation and judgment of you here. Some people need to piss all over others to make themselves feel better about their own sad lives. Obviously this is not a phenomenon limited to our right-wing friends.

[NeedleCast]

80. Yeah!

DUI is cool! All the kids are doing it!

[Taylor Mason Powell]

81. Um, the OP was not busted for DUI

And even if he was, where do you get off being all high and mighty? Maybe FreeRepublic is more your style if you're so keen on passing judgment. :eyes:

[miyazaki]

85. you could of got 2 mos. in jail for underage consumption?

wtf is wrong with this country. we'll all be in prison before too long.
can't help you with legal advice but I can advise you to get the hell
out of that redneck hole as soon as you are able.

[Codeine]

86. "Could have"

Sorry, pet peeve of mine.