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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:33 PM
Original message
Obama Scraps Iraq Withdrawal
So, we elected a president who promised a withdrawal from Iraq that he, or the generals who tell him what to do, is now further delaying. And, of course, the timetable he's now delaying was already a far cry from what he had promised as a candidate.

What are we to think? That may be sad news, but what could we have done differently? Surely it would have been worse to elect a president who did not promise to withdraw, right?

But there's a broader framework for this withdrawal or lack thereof, namely the SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement), the unconstitutional treaty that Bush and Maliki drew up without consulting the U.S. Senate. I was reminded of this on Tuesday when Obama and Karzai talked about a forthcoming document from the two of them and repeatedly expressed their eternal devotion to a long occupation.

The unconstitutional Iraq treaty (UIT) requires complete withdrawal from Iraq by the end of next year, and withdrawal from all Iraqi cities, villages, and localities by last summer. Obama's latest announcement doesn't alter the lack of compliance with the latter requirement. Nor does it guarantee noncompliance with the former. But it illustrates something else, something that some of us have been screaming since the UIT was allowed to stand, something that pretty well guarantees that the US occupation of Iraq will never end.

Imagine if Congress funded, defunded, oversaw, and regulated the military and wars as required by our Constitution. Imagine if the president COULDN'T simply tell Congress that troops would be staying in Iraq longer than planned, but had to ask for the necessary funding first. Here's the lesson for this teachable moment:

Persuading presidents to end wars only looks good until they change their mind. Cutting off the funding actually forces wars to end.

When the US peace movement refused to challenge the UIT, it left Bush's successor and his successors free to ignore it, revise it, or replace it. Congress has been removed from the equation. If Obama decides to inform Congress that the occupation of Iraq will go on into 2012, Congress' response will be as muted as when the Director of National Intelligence informed Congress that killing Americans was now legal. And what can Congress say? It had no role in ratifying the UIT in the first place.

And the peace movement is in large part on the same path with Afghanistan, working to pass a toothless, non-binding timetable for possible redeployment of troops to another nation. Congress sees itself as advisors whose role it is to persuade the president that he wants to cease the activity that most advances presidential power. And activists share that perspective.

But what happens if the president becomes unpersuaded about ending both of these wars? What in the world are we supposed to do then?

We have an alternative to painting ourselves into this corner. The alternative is to build a movement of war opponents (and advocates for spending on human needs and/or tax cuts) that can pressure the House of Representatives to cut off the funding for the wars. Of course, this isn't easy. It's much harder than collecting signatures on a toothless resolution. And it's dramatically harder than watching the president create an unconstitutional treaty (something Bush was forced into primarily by the people of Iraq) and then stepping aside to celebrate.

But there is no stronger message that could be used to persuade a president than a growing caucus of congress members denying him the money. And once a majority is reached in the caucus of war defunders, then the war simply has to end, whether the president is persuaded of anything or not.

So, the lesson to be learned from Obama scrapping his current plan for an Iraq withdrawal is not that we should phone the White House and complain. It's not that we need 20 more cosponsors of the nonbinding timetable for Afghanistan. The lesson is that we must tell members of the House of Representatives that they can vote against war funding or we will vote against them.

Not a new lesson, I realize, but the Constitution is always less read than talked about.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Naw ....really??? Who da thunk it? DUH!
Edited on Wed May-12-10 10:36 PM by L0oniX
Glad I didn't hold my breath on that one. I never believed they would pull out by the end of June anyway.

Anyone who believed we'd be out of Iraq in 18 months was smoking something ...crack!
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Do yourself a favor and look into it yourself. Dont just believe everything an OP tells you.
And people wonder why Fox News viewers are so uninformed. Not that much different from DU.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Do yourself a favor and quit trusting the government to tell you the truth about anything.
Edited on Wed May-12-10 10:43 PM by L0oniX
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
78. So we should, what, believe you unquestioningly instead?
Sorry, buddy, my experience on DU has told me that most people around here are reactionary idiots who's main goal in life is to clutch their "liberal" cards while doing their goddamnedest to make sure Republicans get easy wins.
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. +99999999999
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #78
89. Amen!
I have this amazing urge to make your post my sigline.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #89
199. "I have this amazing urge to make your post my sigline." I was thinking the EXACT same thing
:thumbsup:
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #78
112. LOL
...I decided to start calling it "progribberish." :D
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #78
136. Yep. Foot shooters.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #78
138. The poster didn't ask you to believe anything.
Nice strawman you got there. Looks like your buddies like him, too!

LOL
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #78
149. "...clutch their "liberal" cards"??
I'm proud of everything "liberals" stand for. And if OUR leaders were MORE "liberal" they would win EVERY election.

I want us out of the Middle East, and I want it now!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #149
176. Thank you.
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #78
182. Democrats or Republicans, if they are not Progressive Liberals, they do not get my vote. I vote
behavior first, promises second, and for who I have not yet caught lying to me third. A Democratic conservative represents me no better than a Republican conservative.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #78
186. WTF ...get off the meds. Who asked you to believe me unquestioningly?
"most people around here are reactionary idiots" the irony escapes you
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #186
224. THE GUBMINT BE EBBIL DONT TRUST DA GUBMINT!
Edited on Fri May-14-10 12:14 AM by Chulanowa
Seriously? Okay, when it comes to a government agency discussing a government policy regarding a government action, we're supposed to, what, exactly, assume offhand that we're being lied to, and only a rare few reliable truthbearers - such as yourself, or perhaps Alex Jones or someone? - are worth trusting?

Sorry, no. It doesn't work that way. I'm more inclined to believe people who at least have a probability of knowing what they're talking about, than some keyboard jockey with an ax that's been ground to a nub by now.
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #78
197. Goddamn did you ever nail it.......
...what I've been trying to say for some time, but every time I try to compose a post expressing it, the damn thing ends up being way too long. Thanks for summing it up, and thanks for saying it. About time.
quickesst
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #78
198. I love you. I mean it.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #78
200. What a perfect summary
Most truthful sentence I've read here in a while.
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liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #78
222. +1
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #78
234. + 1234123412 3231234wdfasf`314!!!!
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
129. AND you post a link to a story using government sources to back up your claim...
...while telling people not to trust the government to tell you the truth. AWESOME hypocrisy there.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #129
137. Demonstrating that the government's message is mixed is not hypocrisy.
Good grief.
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The Damned Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
225. Funny: I thought it was the end of August!
Edited on Fri May-14-10 03:15 AM by The Damned
But hey, I'm a newb! What the hell do I know?
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. f
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. What dishonest Bullshit. The article offers no sources. Pentagon says everything is on schedule
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Oh, OK, as long as the Pentagon says so.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. There is no reason NOT to believe them. Its not like they can hide the truth on this
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. As long as anonymous posters on the internet say so.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. David Swanson is not anonymous. Check out his user name.
lol
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. lol, that suddenly just added SO much more credibility, lol lol lol
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Do you not have The Google?
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. lol no omgz, whats the google, lol lol, is that where David Swanson LIVES?
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. yes i live on google
it's really cold here
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. LOL.


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mindwalker_i Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
56. That's funny, cuz I actually live close to google...
and it's NOT cold here. Maybe I just don't have the benefits of their massive air conditioning :)
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #37
153. my sides are splittin. may I suggest you move to a warmer worldwideweb address?
regardless, I hear that the tracking cookies aren't very tasty. maybe go live on yahoo, you anonymous poster you! lol...

I wrote months ago that the president will have secured my no-vote if the wars are still active in '12, regardless if he does everything I could ever want regarding GLBT issues, because - war - is disgusting - but it's unconscionable when it's a ploy to keep people employed in the M.I.C. and the bigwigs fat. Iraq should end this year, and if doesn't my queer ass won't be working like I did for him in '08, because there's so many issues where I question this centrist Democrat administration's actions, but the one thing that keeps me from lifting a finger is bloodshed that is without sound justification. I prefer special ops units be used as they used to do years ago. This large scale war machine is so pointless... anyhow, I'm stopping, it's making me upset.

Say hi to the other inhabitants of Google-Island!
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
87. David Swanson is not anonymous.
You're making a fool of yourself.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #87
143. Fools and enablers.
The republicans have their enablers that let bush get away with 8 years of unfettered constitution trampling because he was president and he deserved our respect and he was just so cool.

Democrats have several of those types of enablers here on DU. Just as the enablers on their side helped to wreck the republican party, our little band on the wagon will do their best to trash whatever the Democratic party ever stood for.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
94. David Swanson is probably the least anonymous poster here
He's a known writer, and he uses his own name here, and participates. There are people here more famous, but they do not use their own names as Mr Swanson does. Others gather up posts and phrases to co opt for their own work, and they might post to self promote, but those well known types do not participate, ever. They use, they do not add.
At times, I agree with Swanson, other times, I do not. But the notion of calling one of the few people here using verifiable, real world names also used for work anonymous is simply inaccurate, and because of that, it looks foolish.
One of the most absurd things ever said by a DUer.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #94
156. said perfectly... I admire his candor and honesty.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. dupe
Edited on Wed May-12-10 10:44 PM by phleshdef
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
98. The God Almighty Pentagon! ?!
Section: PsyOps
Department: Propaganda for Gullible Sh*theads

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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #98
175. The most gullible people on DU
are those who believe every accusation that Obama is betraying the left without questioning the source or looking at the details. It's tiring.
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #98
184. what a great cartoon!
n/t
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. *
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Your own link says they are still doing it within the confines of the Aug. 31 dead.
Edited on Wed May-12-10 10:45 PM by phleshdef
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
187. Obama took office on Jan 22 + the 18 months he said we would be out of Iraq = ???
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:45 PM
Original message
Have you been following the rising violence in Iraq?
And a ten second search yields this:

U.S. reviewing troop pullout plan for Iraq

http://www.usatoday.com/NEWS/usaedition/2010-05-12-wobs12_ST_U.htm?csp=34

I am not gloating, btw, MadBadger. :(
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. The Pentagon has said they are sticking to the timeline.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hfvaCgw36fQJtfZ8KC4FCPRQ_0yA

And even if they were "reviewing," The OP is incredibly dishonest saying the plan has been scrapped. I trust the Pentagon on this and I know thats not something any of us should do easily, but I just dont see what the point would be of not telling the truth. In a few months time, they are either on schedule or not on schedule
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. 'The OP is incredibly dishonest' - Mr. Swanson is not a liar.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I don't care if he is Mother frigging Theresa. The pentagon said they were sticking to the timeline.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Okie dokie
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. and Agent Orange was harmless...
..no such thing as Gulf War Disease/Syndrome, (those troops were not exposed to chemical weapons.. no)
Oh, remember Pat Tillman... never mind, the lies could fill a book or two.

:rofl:
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Pentagon wants to stay in Iraq forever...right?
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I have no idea nt
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Andronex Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
58. Right !
The Empire never leaves voluntarily...

ARMY CAMPS

Armstrong Army Heliport, Buedingen, Hessen, Germany
Brasschaat Army Airfield, Brasschaat, Belgium
Bucholz Army Airfield, Kwajalein Atoll, Kiribati, Marshall Islands
Camp Able-Sentry, Macedonia, Skopje
Camp Bondsteel (Army), Kosovo, Urosevac, Serbia
Camp Comanche, Bosnia-Herzegowina
Camp Doha, Kuwait City, Kuwait
Camp Eagle (Army), Wonju, Korea
Camp Gary Owen (Army), Munsan, Korea
Camp Henry (Army), Taegu, Korea
Camp Monteith, Kosovo, Gnjilane, Serbia
Camp Page (Army), Chunchon, Korea
Camp Udairi, Kuwait City, Kuwait
Camp Walker (Army), Taegu, Korea
Cochran Army Airfield, Camp Stanley (Uijongbu), Korea
Coleman Army Airfield, Mannheim, Baden-Wuerttemberg, Germany
Combat Maneuver Training Center (CMTC) - Hohenfels AAF, Regensburg, Bayern, Germany
Conn Barracks (AHP Schweinfurt), Schweinfurt, Bayern, Germany
Fort Kobbe (Army), Colon, Panama
Hanau Army Airfield, Hanau, Hessen, Germany
Heidelberg Army Airfield, Heidelberg, Baden-Wuerttemberg, Germany
Hohenfels Army Airfield, Hohenfels (Regensburg), Bayern, Germany
Kastner Army Airfield, Camp Zama, Japan
Katterbach Barracks Army Airfield, Ansbach, Bayern, Germany
Mayaguana Army Airfield, Mayaguana, Bahamas
Patton Barracks (AAF Heidelberg), Heidelberg, Baden-Wuerttemberg, Germany
Schweinfurt Army Heliport, Schweinfurt, Bayern, Germany
Storck Barracks Army Airfield, Illesheim, Bayern, Germany
Stuttgart Army Airfield, Stuttgart-Echterdingen, Baden-Wuerttemberg, Germany
Wiesbaden Army Airfield, Wiesbaden-Erbenheim, Hessen, Germany


AIR FORCE BASES

Ahmed Al Jaber Air Base, Kuwait
Akrotiri Royal Air Force Base, Akrotiri, Cyprus
Al Dhafra Air Base, Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
Al Udeid Air Base, Al Udeid, Qatar
Alconbury Royal Air Force Base, Huntingdon (Cambridgeshire), UK
Ali Air Base, Nasiriyah, Iraq
Ali Al Salem Air Base, Kuwait
Andersen Air Base, Yigo, Guam
Aviano Air Base, Aviano, Pordenone, Italy
Bagram Air Base, Parvan, Charikar, Afghanistan
Balad Air Base, Balad, Iraq
Bitburg Air Base, Bitburg, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Camp Adder (Ali Air Base), Nasiriyah, Iraq
Camp Anaconda (Balad Air Base), Balad, Iraq
Cha Shan Air Base, Hualien, Taiwan
Cheong Ju Air Base, Cheong Ju, Korea
Clark Air Base, Balibago (Luzon), Philippines
Croughton Royal Air Force Base, UK
Diego Garcia (Air Force), Diego Garcia, BIOT
Einsiedlerhof Air Station, Kaiserslautern, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Eloy Alfaro Air Base, Manta, Ecuador
Eskan Village Air Base, Saudi Arabia
Fairford Royal Air Force Base, Fairford (Gloucestershire), UK
Feltwell Royal Air Force Base, Thetford (Norfolk), UK
Ganci Air Base (Manas Intl. Airport), Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan
Geilenkirchen Air Base (NATO), Geilenkirchen, NRW, Germany
Ghedi Air Base, Vicenza, Italy
Greenham Common Royal Air Force Base, Greenham (Newbury), UK
Hahn Air Base, Hahn, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Howard Air Base, Panama City, Panama
Hualien Air Base (Cha Shan), Hualien, Taiwan
Incirlik Air Base, Adana, Turkey
Istres Air Base, Istres, France
Izmir Air Base, Izmir, Turkey
Kadena Air Base, Kadena, Okinawa, Japan
Kandahar Air Base, Kandahar, Afghanistan
Kapaun Air Station (KNCOA), Kaiserslautern, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Khanabad Air Base, Khanabad, Uzbekistan
Khost Airbase, Paktia, Khost, Afghanistan
Kimhae Air Base, Pusan, Korea
King Abdul Aziz Air Base, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia
King Fahd Air Base, Taif, Saudi Arabia
King Khalid Air Base, Khamis Mushayt, Saudi Arabia
Kunsan Air Base, Kunsan City, Korea
Lajes Field Air Base, Terceira Island, Azores, Portugal
Lakenheath Royal Air Force Base, Lakenheath (Suffolk), UK
Mazar-e-Sharif Airbase, Mazar-e-Sharif, Afghanistan
Mildenhall Royal Air Force Base, Mildenhall (Suffolk), UK
Misawa Air Base, Misawa, Honshu, Japan
Molesworth Royal Air Force Base, Huntingdon (Cambridgeshire), UK
Moron Air Base, Sevilla, Spain
Osan Air Base, Osan, Korea
Paya Lebar Air Base, Sembawang, Singapore
Ramstein Air Base, Ramstein, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Rhein-Main Air Base, Frankfurt/Main, Hessen, Germany
Richmond Royal Australian Air Force Base, Australia
Riyadh Air Base, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
San Vito dei Normanni Air Station, Brindisi, Italy
Sembach Air Base, Kaiserslautern, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Seoul Air Base (K-16), Seoul, Korea
Soesterberg Air Base, Soesterberg, Netherlands
Sola Sea Air Base, Norway
Soto Cano Air Base (Camp Picket), Comayagua, Honduras
Spangdahlem Air Base, Spangdahlem, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
Stavanger Air Base, Stavanger, Norway
Suwon Air Base, Seoul, Korea
Taegu Air Base (K-2), Taegu, Korea
Tallil Air Base, Nasiriyah, Iraq
Taszar Air Base, Pecs, Hungary
Thule Air Base, Thule, Greenland, Denmark
Torrejon Air Base, Torrejon, Spain
Upper Heyford Royal Air Force Base,
Upwood Royal Air Force Base, Ramsey (Cambridgeshire), UK
Woomera Air Station, Woomera, Australia
Yokota Air Base, Tokyo, Honshu, Japan
Zweibruecken Air Base, Zweibruecken, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany


NAVAL BASES AND STATIONS

Andreos Island Naval Air Station, Bahamas
Munoz Air National Guard Base, San Juan (IAP), Puerto Rico
Borinquen Coast Guard Air Station, Aguadilla, Puerto Rico
Futenma Marine Corps Air Station, Okinawa, Japan
Keflavik Naval Air Station, Reykjanes, Iceland
Guantanamo Bay Naval Air Station, Cuba
Cubi Point Naval Air Station (Subic Bay), Olongapo City, Philippines
Atsugi Naval Air Facility, Sagamino, Honshu, Japan
Guam Naval Base, Guam
La Maddalena Naval Support Activity, Sardinia, La Maddalena, Italy
Lajes Field Naval Air Station, Terceira Island, Azores, Portugal
Naples Naval Support Activity, Naples, Italy
Yokosuka Naval Station, Yokohama, Honshu, Japan
Subic Bay Naval Base, Olongapo City (Luzon), Philippines
Roosevelt Roads Naval Air Station, Caguas, Puerto Rico
Rota Naval Air Station, Rota, Spain
Sigonella Naval Air Station, Sigonella, Sicily, Italy
Souda Bay Naval Support Activity, Chania (Crete), Greece
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #58
122. I think you need to update that list
The US hasn't had any bases in Taiwan since we broke ties with them in '79.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Yea because the timeline on a war is something they can actually lie about and cover up!
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Bookmark this, and we will talk again on Spetember 1st.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. go ahead, take the Pentagon as a reliable source of information
Personally, I've watched them lie since Vietnam, so I can't.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #42
128. The OP in this thread posted links to stories coming from Pentagon sources to back up their claims.
Albeit he is misreading what was actually said, its funny that you are more than willing to believe the Pentagon when its suggested they said we are extending the deadline but if someone dares say that we are keeping the deadline, you won't believe a word of it. Double standards are insanely hilarious.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
47. LOL!
:rofl:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
48. We are not in Cambodia!
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. LOL
that was a classic!
Or Westmoreland's fake casualty numbers. Seriously, the Pentagon does not consider telling us the truth as part of it's function.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Not only the Pentagram. Also their co-conspirators in congress.
Edited on Wed May-12-10 11:34 PM by EFerrari
The My Lai documentary that PBS just ran has a clip of Humphrey asserting that we only hit military targets.

It's really a wonder that any of us can keep even a tenuous grip on reality whatsoever.

ETA: which circles back to David's suggestion. Lean on your representative.
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #48
95. I was at a base 100 meters inside the Cambodian border when Tricky Dick
went on the idiot box and said we would not invade Cambodia. :shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. Come on. Who am I supposed to trust, you or the Pentagon?

:hi:
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #97
104. Given a choice between ENTRUSTING an individual or a bureaucratic organization,
I'd choose the individual every damn time.
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. You actually believe the Pentagon?
Sadly, many do.



peace~
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #27
124. I bet if the Pentagon said we're staying in Iraq for 5 more yrs, you'd believe it without question.
Its only when they say that we are keeping the deadline that we have now that you and all the other knee jerk reactors around here start yelling conspiracy.
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #124
190. I don't believe anything stated by the Pentagon. n/t
peace~
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
68. That's your reliable source?
And you're serious?
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
103. Americans trust in the Pentagon's proclamations as that of *The Word of God.*
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
185. And Pentagon Generals don't lie. So there!
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
202. So whom should I believe? The Pentagon or David Swanson?
In my book it's no contest. I would never believe a damn thing that the Pentagon ever says.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
75. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #75
86. Your posts haven't always thrilled me either, but that's life :)
Edited on Thu May-13-10 01:39 AM by Bluebear
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
146. True - the proper term would be disingenuous.
He is asserting as fact that which is not yet provable. OTOH, it is important to highlight this issue to encourage the administration to keep to the schedule of withdrawal.

It is possible to review the process, and even to delay the onset of it, without delaying the final result, and that will only be known when it happens. As it is scheduled to happen just before an election, I suspect they will stick to it. It's never a good idea to betray a promise when it will be fresh in the minds of the voters.

Going by the schedule, if the promise is not kept Obama will be a one-term president. Simple as that.
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eecumings Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #146
215. Sorry
I was a Wake County teacher for years. You were certainly not one of my students. Whatever the "schedule" is, Obama doesn't actually care. He is a corporatist and centrist and the people be damned. I prefer David's logic. But, you have discerned that Obama will be a one-term president. He will fall for being a Bush clone and for continuing the process of demonlishing America. Fortunately, I live in Canada.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. I have never trusted the Pentagon.. period
because truth has NEVER been their priority.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. The Pentagon said there was WMD in Iraq and that torture wasn't policy, too.
Sh!t, Gates as just down in Colombia saying that a free trade agreement would benefit us and them (well, it will but not the people us and them) and calling Colombia a bastion of security (except for the mass graves and the crematoria, he didn't say). How anyone can trust Gates with anything is just simply beyond my capacity to understand.

The WH is not happy with McChrystal in Afghanistan and Iraq is unraveling. This is not going to be a nice ride for Obama or for us, I'm afraid.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Worthless argument lacking any meaningful context.
No one said the Pentagon hasn't covered some shit up. But something as mun-fucking-dane as a pullout timeline isn't something that fits the category of being to their benefit to lie about. 3 months later and everyone would know about the lie. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? The Pentagon would have nothing to gain by not letting people know that are changing the pullout deadline now and if that was the case, they would likely admit it because it would basically be facing the inevitable.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I've seen rude posters before but you take the ca-fucking-ke. /ignore.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Right. Because the American attention span is 90 days. Next. n/t
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #33
84. Do you realize how stupid it sounds to say 'I trust the Pentagon'?
A trip down memory lane might help you.

The American People: 'How long will we be in Iraq?'

Rumsfeld: 'Er, weeks, months at the most' (paraphrasing}

The American People: 'How much will this war cost?

Rumsfeld: '$40 billion dollars at the most'


Remember Jessica Lynch? Pat Tillman?

I could go on but it would take me all night to list the lies told RECENTLY by the Pentagon, so here, have fun reading about Pentagon lies.

Over 200,000 hits on Google http://www.google.com/custom?q=Pentagon+lies&btnG=Google+Search&sa=Search&client=psp-toshiba&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BLH%3A19%3BLW%3A100%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fbase.googlehosted.com%2Fbase_image%3Fq%3Dpsp-image-u0nmbb%26size%3D1%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.toshibadirect.com%3BLP%3A1%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en&aq=f&oq=

David Swanson or the Pentagon? Who should I believe? Mmmmm ...




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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #84
117. Not even close to as stupid as someone that yells conspiracy everytime the government speaks a word.
Which is basically what you and others here are guilty of.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #117
135. For your 'accusation' to be believable
you must believe that the Pentagon never lies.

Lol, speaking of Conspiracy Theories!

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #33
85. Don't be so hard on yourself.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #33
105. It's called "disinformation" and organizations such as the Pentagon are masters at it.
Sometimes they put out information just to confuse an issue knowing that the chattering classes will argue over the specifics.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
141. Your bloviation, condescension and rudeness
Edited on Thu May-13-10 12:26 PM by Individualist
are typical DLC tactics.

"It reminds me of a string of wet sponges; it reminds me of tattered washing on the line; it reminds me of stale bean soup, of college yells, of dogs barking idiotically through endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it. It drags itself out of the dark abysm of pish, and crawls insanely up the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and doodle. It is balder and dash." H. L. Mencken
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #141
192. Thank you.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
99. The Pentagon says ...?
:spray: :rofl:
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #99
127. This entire thread is based on the OP using a Pentagon/military source as their information.
Albeit he is misreading what was actually said, its funny that you are more than willing to believe the Pentagon when its suggested they said we are extending the deadline but if someone dares say that we are keeping the deadline, you won't believe a word of it. Double standards are insanely hilarious.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #127
140. This was wrong the first time you posted it, let alone the third time.
Edited on Thu May-13-10 01:01 PM by EFerrari
From the Clue Factory: you don't need to believe everything you read. You are free to find, analyze and synthesize facts with other facts from other sources until you can develop a conclusion based on facts!



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billh58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #127
150. The OP is not
"misreading" what was actually said, he is purposely twisting it to fit his agenda.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #150
152. LOL -- that Big Bad hold your rep accountable agenda?
Hilarious, really. :spray:
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billh58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
148. Facts mean
little to some self-promoters and shit-stirrers...
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Change you have to believe in to see!
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
90. DUzy! nt
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. No! That must be a typo.


I mean, he has the best brand recognition since Pepsi. Why would he lie to us??

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skeptical cynic Donating Member (404 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. Peace movement?
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Don't look at me....
I tried to get our group fired up.... crickets.

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skeptical cynic Donating Member (404 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #32
69. I know there is a small peace movement
But most Democrats I know seem perfectly happy with the wars, or at least accepting of them, now that Bush isn't running them.

There was a book recommended on DU some time ago when I was still just lurking. I bought it and read it several times because it made so much sense. "The New American Militarism" by Andrew Bacevich. I thought it explained the current bipartisan support/apathy about war very well in historical, cultural and economic terms. It didn't address civil liberties directly, but I found the explanation for the militarism to be an equally good explanation of the passive acceptance of things like torture, extralegal executions, lack of due process and secrecy.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #69
110. Read it... agree totally. nt
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. Link please
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
40. Here's a link to the same story at David's blog.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/155993

I've found nothing else whatever to support the claim that Obama has decided to scrap the withdrawal. There's speculation by lots of people, including myself, that this might come to pass but that's not what David is saying.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #40
88. That is more opinion than story
I agree it may happen, but the OP made it sound like it was something that Obama had already said.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
31. I'm calling you out, David.
Edited on Wed May-12-10 11:09 PM by Lasher
Show me where Obama or one of his agents said they'll have more than 50,000 US soldiers in Iraq on August 31 this year. Otherwise your headline is nothing but cheap sensationalism.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/155993
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. What do you make of this? And that's a real question, not a fake one
because I don't know the logistics:

US reconsidering pace of Iraq troop withdrawal

By LARA JAKES, Associated Press Writer Lara Jakes, Associated Press Writer – Tue May 11, 1:21 pm ET

BAGHDAD – Worries over violence fueled by Iraq's political instability have forced U.S. commanders to reconsider the pace of a major pullout this summer without overstepping a deadline to cut the military's presence by nearly half by the end of August.

Under a plan by the top U.S. commander in Iraq, the military was to begin significant pullouts in May to meet President Barack Obama's goal of 50,000 troops in country by August 31.

But three U.S. officials in Baghdad and a senior military official at the Pentagon with knowledge of the military's plans tell The Associated Press that the major drawdown is not expected to begin until June at the earliest. They spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq_troop_withdrawal_1
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. It looks like there are mixed messages being sent out...but the OP is definitely wrong in my eyes.
This article at least has anonymous sources claiming they are reconsidering. David said they are scrapping the plan, like its been decided.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Well, there's always the math -- which by the way
is not a strength of mine. lol

If they delay the draw down, can they meet the deadline? So far what we have is an official denial that they've changed their plans.

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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
59. I agree with what you have shared.
Please have a look at the OP I posted a few days ago, it says the same thing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4376968

As you can see I am highly skeptical about meeting the August 31 deadline. But thinking about it does not equal scrapping the plan. Anonymous US officials in Baghdad notwithstanding, I know of nothing to support David's claim, "Obama Scraps Iraq Withdrawal". As a matter of fact, 3,000 soldiers were withdrawn during the first week of this month. That's about the pace we'll need to see if we are to meet the goal. So the jury's still out but David is trying to grab attention with a headline that clearly infers otherwise.

I've watched this closely since Obama assumed office. I'm not blessed with omniscience like a lot of folks we run across at DU, so there's a chance I've missed something that could justify David's headline. That's why I've called him out so that he can enlighten me if I'm wrong. If that is the case I'll eat crow. I know the taste. Otherwise I'm hoping he'll man up and at least change his headline.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Check out #44 where David supplies two links
and #54.

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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. I saw that initially.
David was being nice in #44. His article's hyperlinks were not hidden. Read below. This is like we're both getting a busy because we're both trying to call each other at the same time.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
35. Don't blame me. I voted for Kucinich.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. yeah but you know he was too short
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Which is funny, considering McCain is the same height.
See how stupid we can be? It's shameful really.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. We're not stupid. We just don't own our elections. n/t
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
46. Obama never claimed to be for drawing down in Iraq.
Edited on Wed May-12-10 11:18 PM by Marr
:sarcasm:

Sorry, I just wanted to toss that out before the alternate universe historians arrive.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. Ooooo, I was gonna smack you!
:spank:
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
53. Bush was such a dick for agreeing to that (SOFA)
Edited on Wed May-12-10 11:36 PM by Oregone
He knew the powers weren't going to let the next puppet leave.

Now thats chess.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
54. Perhaps someone could tell me what this means?
Issued by Obama today...

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release May 12, 2010
NOTICE
- - - - - - -
CONTINUATION OF THE NATIONAL EMERGENCY
WITH RESPECT TO THE STABILIZATION OF IRAQ
On May 22, 2003, by Executive Order 13303, the President
declared a national emergency protecting the Development Fund
for Iraq and certain other property in which Iraq has an
interest, pursuant to the International Emergency Economic
Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701-1706). The President took this
action to deal with the unusual and extraordinary threat to
the national security and foreign policy of the United States
posed by obstacles to the orderly reconstruction of Iraq,
the restoration and maintenance of peace and security in the
country, and the development of political, administrative, and
economic institutions in Iraq.
In Executive Order 13315 of August 28, 2003, Executive
Order 13350 of July 29, 2004, Executive Order 13364 of
November 29, 2004, and Executive Order 13438 of July 17, 2007,
the President modified the scope of the national emergency
declared in Executive Order 13303 and took additional steps
in response to this national emergency.
Because the obstacles to the orderly reconstruction of
Iraq, the restoration and maintenance of peace and security in
the country, and the development of political, administrative,
and economic institutions in Iraq continue to pose an unusual
and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign
policy of the United States, the national emergency declared
in Executive Order 13303, as modified in scope and relied upon
for additional steps taken in Executive Orders 13315, 13350,
13364, and 13438, must continue in effect beyond May 22, 2010.
Therefore, in accordance with section 202(d) of the National
Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d)), I am continuing for 1 year
the national emergency with respect to the stabilization
of Iraq.
This notice shall be published in the Federal Register and
transmitted to the Congress.
BARACK OBAMA
THE WHITE HOUSE,
May 12, 2010.
# # #

See link to the pdf here: http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/05/12/that-iraq-withdrawal-we-elected-in-2008/
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Should this be the part we attend to?
"Therefore, in accordance with section 202(d) of the National
Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d)), I am continuing for 1 year
the national emergency with respect to the stabilization
of Iraq."
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. I read it. David's second hyperlink leads to an article that links to it.
I'm not sure what it means but he doesn't come out and say he's scrapping any withdrawal plan. "For 1 year" might mean he's keeping the 50,000 there until the end of 2012 instead of withdrawing them by the end of 2011 as planned.

You have to guess he's warming up to an announcement of some sort. Is it Friday yet?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #62
72. I'm ready for Friday.
:(
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #72
77. Read ProSense's contribution below.
He says the extension document is something standard that's issued every year. That makes sense, so I don't think it means anything.

I was drafted during the Vietnam War. In this respect I've been ready for Friday for a year and four months now.

Color me disillusioned. :-(
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. It's pretty clear. nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #54
67. It's is issued every year.
It's standard:

Message from the President on the Continuation of the National Emergency with Respect to the Stabalization of Iraq

TO THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES:

Section 202(d) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d)) provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. In accordance with this provision, I have sent the enclosed notice to the Federal Register for publication, continuing the national emergency with respect to the stabilization of Iraq. This notice states that the national emergency with respect to the stabilization of Iraq declared in Executive Order 13303 of May 22, 2003, as modified in scope and relied upon for additional steps taken in Executive Order 13315 of August 28, 2003, Executive Order 13350 of July 29, 2004, Executive Order 13364 of November 29, 2004, and Executive Order 13438 of July 17, 2007, is to continue in effect beyond May 22, 2010.

Obstacles to the orderly reconstruction of Iraq, the restoration and maintenance of peace and security in the country, and the development of political, administrative, and economic institutions in Iraq continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States. Accordingly, I have determined that it is necessary to continue the national emergency with respect to this threat and maintain in force the measures taken to deal with that national emergency.

The Iraqi government continues to take steps to resolve debts and settle claims arising from the actions of the previous regime. Before the end of the year, my Administration will review the Iraqi government's progress on resolving these outstanding debts and claims, as well as other relevant circumstances, in order to determine whether the prohibitions contained in Executive Order 13303 of May 22, 2003, as amended by Executive Order 13364 of November 29, 2004, on any attachment, judgment, decree, lien, execution, garnishment, or other judicial process with respect to the Development Fund for Iraq, the accounts, assets, and property held by the Central Bank of Iraq, and Iraqi petroleum-related products, should continue in effect beyond December 31, 2010, which are in addition to the sovereign immunity ordinarily provided to Iraq as a sovereign nation under otherwise applicable law.

BARACK OBAMA

THE WHITE HOUSE,
May 12, 2010.





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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #67
71. Hmmm.
Thanks.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #67
212. OK, thanks
Edited on Thu May-13-10 08:48 PM by G_j
so these executive orders have been issued every year since 2003. That does put it in a different light.
It's a yearly contract. (the civilized veneer of occupation) The legalize would be amusing, if it wasn't over such a grim, f@#%#ed up situation.
And we think BP is criminal?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
64. as long as there is a barrel of oil and a cubic meter of natural gas
we are not leaving iraq or the rest of the middle east. obama is not going to "repeal" the carter/reagan doctrine
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
65. K&R
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
66. I believe the Status of Forces Agreement between the U.S. and Iraq is considered a...
Edited on Thu May-13-10 12:29 AM by MilesColtrane
sole-executive agreement, negotiated and entered into through the president's authority as commander-in-chief of the armed forces.

That is a different thing than a treaty.

According to the Congressional Research Service the United States has SOFAs with 47 other countries that are not based any treaty or underlying Congressional action. (making them sole-executive agreements)

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL34531.pdf

Sole-executive agreements do not have to be ratified by Congress and they are considered constitutional by the Supreme Court.

Examples of other sole-executive agreements include the Yalta Agreement of 1945, the Vietnam Peace Agreement of 1973, and the Iran Hostage Agreement of 1981.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
70. Looking for my shocked face. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
73. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
74. Classic FDL bullshit.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #74
76. Agreed.
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PhoenixDaddy Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
79. Seems to me that campaigns are campaigns and reality is reality
Did you really think we would just walk away from Iraq? What do you think would happen to the people over there if we did? Those poor Iraqis need a stable goverment, not another Saddam.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #79
81. You remember how they got Saddam, right?
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #79
109. Hooray for Iraq war supporters in the big tent!
They deserve our blood and treasure!!!
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #79
219. Well, it is what it is because otherwise it wouldn't be, and that's that.
Is that it?

So Obama had to lie during the campaign or else zombie Saddam would return and eat precious Iraqi baby brains for lunch tomorrow. Talk about scrapping at the bottom of the barrel for excuses. LOL
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
80. Putting aside the moral arguments, we simply cannot afford to keep troops
in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The same folks who insist that we keep forces in Iraq and Afghanistan forever are claiming that we can't afford to pay the Social Security benefits to baby boomers although baby boomers paid taxes specifically dedicated to cover their Social Security costs.

We cannot afford to keep troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's the bottom line.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #80
107. It's only our tax dollars being SPENT, the MIC corporations are making money hand over fist.
Until our Congress cuts-off the purse-strings, we'll be there for the duration.

In essence President Obama has given the MIC the American People's MasterCard. :scared:
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
83. The members of the House, and the Senate as well, know that
reelect incumbents at about a 90% retention rate.

We will not vote against them. About the only way an incumbent will be replaced is via retirement or natural death. We vote for 'the name you know.'

Following the election cycle we complain about both houses of congress, and we all say things like "Our guy is OK" but he's not. They are all the same.
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gleaner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
91. I'm not at all surprised ....
I never did believe he would leave. He has not told the truth about much of anything. One thing though, he is going to run out of enlisting soldiers sooner or later. Maybe when he reinstates the draft people will care enough to push back. I think it is a little drafty in here with all those wars, don't you?
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
92. When Obama speaks with Karzai
Afghanistan would generally be the topic discussed. It would be rather unlikely and quite unproductive for President Obama to discuss the Iraq SOFA with the President of Afghanistan.

I will believe the withdrawl plan is changed when troops stop leaving on schedule. There has been plenty of violence in Iraq since the withdrawl started, and the pace has not slowed. Nothing in recent news is out of kind with the violence that has been going on there since the end of the invasion, or more specifically the conditions that existed when the withdrawl started. Nothing stands out as a reason to change the plan now, so I will believe the plan has changed when actions occur to prove it.

Get your constitution straight and keep your wars separate.

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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
93. Chess Move® n/t
n/t
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
96. Gee, right on time. I told you so but many wouldn't listen - we're there until the corporations
comprising the MIC get their fill of what is known as their "Battlefield Disneyland" in Iraq.

What? Those bombs won't blow up themselves.

"We have to keep our heads until this Peace craze blows over." :crazy:

http://yorick.infinitejest.org:81/1/img/card-1984_instruction_manual.jpg
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
100. Being anti-Iraq Occupation and with a husband in Iraq now, very interested in this
I'll have to wait for more info, especially a verbal explanation of what this means.

My husband has witnessed what the drawdown looks like, he has been to several camps as part of the skeleton crew left after units clear out. I have another relative in transportation who is part of the movement of units' and troops' equipment out of the Middle East and back to the States. He speaks of massive amounts of equipment being shipped out daily. So when I read the title of the OP I have to say it makes me want more info. Everything I've heard from over there (and of course it is second hand - but my husband is just telling me things as they are) goes back to huge troop movement out of Iraq.

Now, perhaps we need to keep our eyes on the contractors while we're drawing down. I've heard of such waste in relation to the contractors that you wouldn't believe it. I read an article about complaints of contractors receiving way too much in relation to what they're doing especially with the drawdown happening. The response from someone in Halliburton was that they will leave when the Army asks them to leave. So on a technicality they can hang out siphoning from taxpayers however much they can for however long they can.

Will we still have a scheduled draw down as it reads on paper even if contractors (Halliburton/Cheney/greedy) are left on Iraq soil?

I've tried to search for the article I read, it was about a month ago, maybe in the Stars and Stripes? I'll keep looking. In the meantime:


http://www.globalissues.org/news/2010/04/07/5128

Over the last year, troops have been slowly leaving Iraq as part of a withdrawal plan created by the Barack Obama administration. The number of troops is now roughly 98,000 but by the time U.S. combat missions in Iraq end in August, the U.S. plans to draw down to between 35,000 to 50,000 troops in that country.

Given the planned drawdown, the Pentagon told KBR to reduce its staffing levels all across Iraq last year. KBR came up with a proposal implemented in August that was ineffective because the positions that the contractor eliminated were vacant.

KBR was 'eliminating spaces without faces', Commissioner Charles Tiefer remarked during a hearing of the bipartisan Commission on Wartime Contracting held in the U.S Senate on Mar. 29. The commission was created early 2008 to investigate waste, fraud and abuse in military contracting services in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Instead, the Houston-based company maintained a steady staff level 20 months after the military reduced the number of soldiers on the ground from 160,000 in January 2008 to 130,000 in September 2009, the DCAA audit said.


Read the last paragraph on the first page:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/kbr-idle-hands-iraq-balad-contract-waste-pentagon-report-hearing


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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
101. Not another nice move Mr. President.
What a fucking drag.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
102. No One Could Have Predicted that Sectarian Violence Would Continue
This Just In: Sun Rises in East, Bear Poops in Woods
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
106. Yes, it is simply another disaster. They are stacking up now. Soon
everyone in the US will have locked themselves in the bathroom.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
108. All I can say is Colin Powell was right
Edited on Thu May-13-10 08:34 AM by BootinUp
about if you break it you own it.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
111. We really, really need the oil.
It's worth it, for Wall Street.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #111
147. lol
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snort Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
113. Bullshit post.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #113
115. Another Trusting Believer of Pentagon Information
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #115
116. Kucinich's former press secretary
...has more credibility? Please.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #116
132. Than the Pentagon? Please.

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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #115
118. sad, isnt it.
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snort Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #115
131. Oh sure.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #115
155. Trusting the Pentagon as opposed to who?
How can you say the source for this information is more or less trustworthy than the Pentagon when NO SOURCE IS GIVEN. Maybe the sources is a homeless guy in London who hates Obama. How am I to know?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #155
159. You could read the thread?
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #159
162. Not seeing anything other than
"I don't believe the Pentagon but I'm a sucker for any unsourced story that attacks Obama."
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #162
164. Then you have a reading problem. Good luck with that. n/t
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #164
166. Can't link to anything again?
Not surprised. Yes, the amount of crap I'm willing to read to find something you won't link to is pretty limited.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #164
201. You should APOLOGIZE!!one! I can't believe how RUDE you're being!!11
See how stupid, condescending and idiotic that looks?
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
114. We spent $5.5 billion for the war in Iraq in February.
In 2008 we averaged $12 billion per month.

On what planet is that not less? :shrug:
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
119. At least he kept his promise on Afghanistan
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #119
120. +1
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
121. Encouraging
The anger here, both at the ever slower withdrawal and evidence that it will not be completed, and at me for suggesting that it isn't all on track, is all very encouraging. Articles on Afghanistan aren't usually able to detect a pulse. People CAN care about war, if it's in Iraq. That's heartening. I hope it gets channeled into demanding a fast and complete withdrawal, committee reviews of the permanent bases and "embassy", and congressional cut-off of funds for delays.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #121
123. "The anger...at me for suggesting that it isn't all on track"
Edited on Thu May-13-10 10:41 AM by ProSense
"Obama Scraps Iraq Withdrawal"

Are those sentiments the same?

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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #121
125. Nice backtrack.
It was attention you wanted, yes?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #125
126. Nail, meet hammer. (nt)
Edited on Thu May-13-10 10:53 AM by redqueen
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #126
130. Are you calling Robb a Hammer?
I think he's smarter than a bag of them, at very least. :evilgrin:
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #121
134. I have no anger against you for suggesting what you did. I am
simply incredulous that after all that has happened you still believe the American people have any influence at all over any decision. Sure, they can vote the decision-makers out--as long the voting is not crooked, which it is.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #121
158. So you're agenda is to stir up anger about the policy to pressure Obama
and your happy to spread unsourced and unsubstantiated accusations to reach your goal. That's pretty cynical and the simple minded over-use of that tactic is wearing down the movement. It damages your own credibility as well.

http://www.rferl.org/content/US_Says_Iraq_Troop_Withdrawal_Remains_On_Schedule/2039486.html
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #158
160. Before you attack David Swanson, shouldn't you read this thread?
I mean, unless you have no care for your own credibility?
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #160
170. Any time you'd like to make a point
rather than alluding to making a point...feel free.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #160
177. Stop! He's radical! And an ACTIVIST!
:silly:
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #177
183. Who believes in accuracy!
Gasp!
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #177
208. ...and speaking up for the truth
Edited on Thu May-13-10 08:07 PM by HughMoran
I have asked you, but I'm 100% sure you will never ever point to a single fact supporting your position in this thread.

Ooops, I've pointed out your disingenuous position in this thread. What are you going to do?
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greencharlie Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
133. I KNEW I shoulda' got into the bullet-making industry... nt
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
139. Incredible...
On the one hand, you have progressive author, essayist, researcher, activist (in the put-your-body-on-the-line sense of the word) and thoroughly un-anonymous David Swanson.

On the other, you have the US military machine, an institution that routinely lies to the American people and the world in the name of national security -- and admits it via follow-up statements, tell-all books by former insiders and the hard work of investigative reporters... all half a dozen still allowed to do business in the United States of Prevarication.

On the third hand, you have Swanson's post and his references to accept, refute or ignore.

You can always attack the message while still respecting the messenger.


wp
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
142. Oh. What a surprise.
Hardly.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
144. Endless wars-many of us knew this was Obama's plan during the primaries but few would listen.
I'm happy to see that there are still people around DU who won't give up posting the truth-Thanks for posting another excellent OP! :thumbsup:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
145. Don't Like Obama's Policies? I get it.
Don't Like Obama's Policies? I get it.

What I don't get is making crap up just because you don't agree with him, don't trust him, think he is a warmonger, a corporatist or whatever your personal pet peeve may be.

To my point, the diary in the wreck list with this BS headline:

Obama Scraps Iraq Withdrawal

The facts are as follows:

The Iraq withdrawal may slow during the month of June, but it will still meet the deadline of August 31st. Now if you disagree prove it with something other than conjecture or rumor. You think leaving 50K troops behind does not really constitute a withdrawal OK I can understand that argument. What a cannot understand is hyperbolic BS.

more



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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #145
154. you're one to talk about hyperbolic writing
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #154
157. Did the adminstration scrap the withdrawal?
Have proof?

Want to defend misinformation, go right ahead, but save the lame accusation.

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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
151. Yay!
:sarcasm:

But a K & R from me.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
161. "U.S. Says Iraq Troop Withdrawal Remains On Schedule"
I know some people are eager to believe the worst and be proven "right" about their opposition to Obama. For those interested in reality here's a story that actually names a source.

http://www.rferl.org/content/US_Says_Iraq_Troop_Withdrawal_Remains_On_Schedule/2039486.html
http://kgmi.com/Iraq-Drawdown-On-Schedule--Pentagon-Says/7030698
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #161
165. The third time might be the charm but I doubt it.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #165
168. After three times the Gaurdian article still doesn't have a named source.
You don't see that as a problem?

And the jargon in your second link doesn't say anything in plain English. I can't trust one random persons interpretation of legalistic jargon when there's no supporting evidence for their claim.

All the articles I can find say that they're committed to the same withdrawal deadlines. You and the OP are trying too hard to hear what you really, really want to believe.

http://breakingnews.gaeatimes.com/2010/04/06/white-house-string-of-bombings-in-iraq-not-expected-to-alter-plans-for-us-troop-withdrawals-20116/

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said that Gen. Ray Odierno, the top U.S. military official in Iraq, does not believe the violence threatens the ability of the U.S. military to draw down its forces this year.

U.S. commanders plan to end combat operations on Aug. 31 and withdraw all forces by the end of 2011.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #165
205. You do realize that even David has stepped away from this?
"UPDATE 2: A few hundred commenters

are right that Obama has not announced that there will be no withdrawal.

It's just gone from 16 months to a partial withdrawal by august, to a partial withdrawal by august that won't start until it's almost august -- and with no checks on these changes from congress or anywhere else, just discretion of the president or the generals. Unless there is push-back the delays will grow and grow, and completeness of any withdrawal will be scaled back. The SOFA requires ALL FORCES out by the end of next year and does not actually legalize any of them being there right now."

In no part of the text

DOES HE SUPPORT THE CLAIM IN THE O/P



This is the problem with you and others like you - you believe what people post BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IT'S TRUE SO LONG AS IT'S ANTI-OBAMA.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
163. Your article makes sense. Your title does not.
He isn't scrapping withdrawal. It appears he's delaying it by weeks.

We don't need to mimic the hyperbole of the other side.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #163
171. Exactly.
Pressuring Obama is fine. Exaggerating something to manipulate people is not.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
167. complete withdrawal or not
A few hundred commenters here and elsewhere are right that Obama has not announced that there will be no withdrawal. It's just gone from 16 months to a partial withdrawal by august, to a partial withdrawal by august that won't start until it's almost august -- and with no checks on these changes from congress or anywhere else, just discretion of the president or the generals. Unless there is push-back the delays will grow and grow, and completeness of any withdrawal will be scaled back. The SOFA requires ALL FORCES out by the end of next year and does not actually legalize any of them being there right now.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #167
173. You can't mobilize people
if you don't respect them enough to state your case in a clear way without misleading exaggerations.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #173
178. You can, however, build your pundit credentials.
Which is I suspect what this is all about.

It is controversy, not clarity, which is called for.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #167
226. No, it's not just gone from 16 months to a partial withdrawal by August.
In Oct. 2007, Obama supported removing all combat troops from Iraq within 16 months, saying, “I will remove one or two brigades a month, and get all of our combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months. The only troops I will keep in Iraq will perform the limited missions of protecting our diplomats and carrying out targeted strikes on al Qaeda. And I will launch the diplomatic and humanitarian initiatives that are so badly needed. Let there be no doubt: I will end this war.”

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/10/02/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_27.php

But during the debate with McCain, the withdrawal became a reduction when he said, “We should end this war responsibly. We should do it in phases. But in 16 months we should be able to reduce our combat troops, provide some relief to military families and our troops and bolster our efforts in Afghanistan so that we can capture and kill bin Laden and crush al Qaeda.”

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/26/debate.mississippi.transcript/

And then the 16 month deadline was extended for 3 more months. But that happened in February 2009. When you said, "Obama Scraps Iraq Withdrawal", most people assumee you are talking about the plan announced at that time (the current plan), the one that sets forth a goal of 50,000 or fewer soldiers no later than August 31, 2010.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-02-26-obama-iraq_N.htm

So it's not just gone from a full withdrawal to a partial one. That happened in 2008. And it didn't just change from 16 to 19 months, that happened in February last year.

Further, it is not true to say that the partial withdrawal won't start until it's almost August. In January 2009 there were 142,000 US soldiers in Iraq. Early this month the Associated Press reported that the troop level is 92,000.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jvmAWUYlSdOQZoyLrXyba6cSNpIgD9FKPHEO0

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/Centers/Saban/Iraq%20Index/index.pdf (scroll to page 19).
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #226
228. Wow. Factual information.
I'm sure Swanson will apologize for the misleading nature of his blog post now.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #228
230. He had his chance to man up.
I must say I am disappointed.
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
169. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Fuck the politics of procrastination and just end this goddamned farce already.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #169
174. +1000
Funny how it was wrong under Bush, but is okay under Obama.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #174
189. Who's saying it's okay under Obama?
Every post that doesn't believe the OP is critical of the title and the lack of sources, not necessarily the war.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
172. This post is dishonest.
Nothing sourced, nothing specific and on top of that, the lie that the withdrawal has been cancelled. There has been no such cancellation. As far as I can tell, the withdrawal is on schedule.

It's all well and good to keep on our president about winding down these stupid wars, but lying about him won't help.
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paulkienitz Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
179. even if it's postponed, the promise to withdraw did a lot of good...
Edited on Thu May-13-10 03:45 PM by paulkienitz
The fact that he broadcast his intention to withdraw was probably the single biggest factor in quieting the ongoing violence in Iraq.

I suppose if he stalls too long on withdrawing, it might gradually ramp up again... but he's in the meantime managed to create a situation where it's neither so bad to stay nor so hard to leave, because things have calmed down so much.

Looked at this way, it seems like now is actually the best window to do the withdrawal in -- if he puts it off longer, it's going to get more difficult again.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #179
181. The end justifies the means. Except it's not the end.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #181
204. Show a single fact to support what you just said
Just one fact.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
180. K & R. Damn the pro-war apologists, full speed ahead.
And damn this war too.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #180
191. Pro-war apologists? Care to show one example of someone that is pro-war.
Looks to me like a lot of people that don't like being lied to; quite different from your interpretation.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #191
223. "a lot of people that don't like being lied to;"
Unless it's Obama making campaign promises
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
188. K&+R
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
193. Recommend for a well thought out piece...
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #193
203. But it isn't
Edited on Thu May-13-10 08:07 PM by HughMoran
Did you click on the hotlink? Have you noticed the author has posted hardly any replies in this thread to the many good criticisms?

Why? They've stepped away from what they wrote. lol

We're scheduled to reduce to 50,000 troops by August and we're on schedule.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #203
206. I didn't say I agree and I didn't click the link...
To me, on the surface, it seemed to be a well thought out piece of writing and offered a realistic plan of action...

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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #206
207. I assumed you were supportive of the conclusion in the subject
Which is never proved anywhere. It is true that people should be keeping the pressure on the Administration - I'm 100% in agreement with that aspect of the piece.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #207
216. And the way to do that is by organizing at the Congressional District Level
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
194. I never know what to believe in the world of politics.
Bookmarked.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
195. K
.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
196. K&R ...
Thank you David, your contributions are appreciated. :)
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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
209. I'm gonna act like the soup-nazi when I go to the voting booth.
NO 2ND TERM FOR YOU!

BTW I will vote Green, I don't give a damn about your "throwing my vote away" opinion.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #209
213. Fictional post supports why you won't vote for Obama
Sweet - you're very sophisticated in your thinking.

Hmmm, what does that remind me of?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
210. "Scrapped"

Nothing in the article cited indicates that the withdrawal is going to be "scrapped"

It indicates that the rate of withdrawal is different than originally scheduled but still expecting the original goal to be maintained.

Really unconciousionable self indulgent fiction.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #210
214. It doesnt even go that far. It says they may change the rate of withdrawal.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
211. This thread makes Seabiscuit smile.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
217. Ha Ha Ha HAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAH
Edited on Thu May-13-10 09:44 PM by liberation
Nice going...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
218. Sad - - but be back tomorrow to actually read it all --
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
220. Did you ever think we were going to fully withdraw? Seriously?...
...and do you think Obama really had the last say on that? Child, please.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
221. Oh no he DIDN'T...
Every day we stay in Iraq only further legitimizes the lies and crimes George W. Bush committed in order to push us into Iraq. Why in the name of all that is holy does Barack Obama not understand this?!?

I could say more, but my beautiful wife died yesterday morning, and I'm frankly too disheveled and exhausted to elaborate any further.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
227. This was pretty obvious from the gitgo.

They didn't leave that 'back door' for nothin'.

Damn rowdy Iraqis, they're making us stay, it's all their fault.....

Jesus, soo transparent.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #227
229. Jesus, soo transparent.
Yes, a post deliberately designed to stir people up but based on NO factual information.

I'd expect you to promote this sort of propaganda.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #229
231. Facts, Moran?

The facts are on the ground, the huge bases, the Vatican City sized "embassy", saw it coming a mile away. But you go ahead and believe the spin, it will all come out by and by and those promises of withdrawal forgotten.

Three card monte, every time.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #231
232. Can't post on topic and taking a cheap shot eh?
Propaganda by the boat-full!
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #232
233. Touchy, are we?

My friends and enemies both call me 'pig', no sweat off my curly tail.
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