I'm a Christian and would not hesitate to vote for an atheist candidate.

[11 Bravo]

My vote will always be based on issues. Jesus Christ spoke at length about caring for the least of us (that would entail income re-distribution, Beck, you incomprehensible jackass); yet the words "abortion" and "gay marriage" never passed his lips. I despise the fundie hypocrites who have attempted to hi-jack my faith, and believe that government should be completely secular. My faith is between me and my God. I could give a flying fuck what anyone else believes or does not believe. And if the obligatory reference to a "sky fairy" gets you off, hey, knock yourself out.

[The Straight Story]

1. And I am sure atheists feel the same respect for others (nt)

[11 Bravo]

3. Some do, some don't.

There are DUers who are as sneeringly dismissive of Christians as the wingnut right is of atheists. Like I said, if that floats their boat, go for it.

[Junkie Brewster]

14. I've yet to see an atheist declare that Xians can't be American

I've yet to see an atheist say that anyone who follows any religion isn't an American, or is a bad person, or should be fired, or should be executed. I wish I could say the same for those who believe in a god or gods.

[NutmegYankee]

32. Look below... nt

[Junkie Brewster]

62. Sorry, I don't see anyone accusing anyone of those things

Actually, compared to some, maybe most, internet discussions that touch on atheism and Xianity, this thread seems pretty respectful.

[LanternWaste]

51. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I've yet to see an atheist say that anyone who follows any religion isn't..." Brain-dead, brain-washed, ignorant, intolerant, afraid, bigoted, holds a persecution-complex, etc.? Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[roguevalley]

64. I have yet to see an atheist not call a believer crazy, stupid, psycho

sucking up magical thinking, etc. both sides suck in my book too much of the time.

EDIT; this fell down the thread and landed under yours. interesting, no? :)

[darkstar3]

68. And how would you know?

You can't see a negative, unless you're talking about film.

[KonaKane]

81. welcome to the new atheism.

Pretty pathetic, isnt it.

[darkstar3]

110. As opposed to the new religion of "poor me"?

[KonaKane]

122. Would you say that to Blacks who were marching for their rights?

Hopefully not. But religious people are open season for you, huh. Weird.

[darkstar3]

130. Are you saying that you suffer the same persecution that African Americans went through?

Hang on...phone call...It's the entire black population of America before the Civil Rights movement, and they're pissed.

[KonaKane]

131. I'm saying you are selective about your respect for tolerance.

And bashing religion and religious people will not help you or your cause in any way. It may help your ego, but thats about it.

[darkstar3]

135. And I'm saying you haven't been persecuted,

and that if you think you have then you have no idea what persecution really is. I really think you should read up on the concept of a persecution complex, and then re-read your posts.

[bobbolink]

120. That last one in your list.

Yes, that one.

Right here on DU.

:cry:

[Iggo]

74. Bullshit.

We atheists vote for Christians all the fucking time.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

75. So I guess you are suggesting that some of these atheists

have never voted for a Presidental candidate in their life, they have all been Christians.

[dorkulon]

140. I think religion is a fantasy, but I'll vote for a Christian without any difficulty.

Jimmy Carter is a serious Christian and also my favorite Pres of my lifetime. In fact, it's a rare election that offers anyone the opportunity to vote for an atheist (or at least an open one).

I don't have to share your supernatural belief system to endorse your policy proposals, which I believe is pretty much what you said.

[dmallind]

8. If the question is voting for those with different faith POVs we all do yes

We have no fricking choice of course, since only one meaningful candidate is an open atheist in the entire federal government, and he only "came out" after winning 17 consecutive terms in one of the safest seats in the nation and after a magazine said they would do it first if he didn't.

So yeah it's no great news for us to vote for people with a different opinion on religion, which is a tad more important than being nice to them on internet boards don't you think?

[The Straight Story]

19. Was merely stating the obvious, I think both sides have people that respect each other

And both sides have people that don't.

[liberal_at_heart]

65. exactly

People are trying to generalize about an entire group of people. You will always have individuals in all groupls who are jerks and individuals in all groupls who are kind and compassionate. My daughter is atheist and my husband and I have raised her to respect all people even if they don't respect her. Giving compassion even in the face of intolerance is the only way to change the world.

[KonaKane]

54. Not judging by this site.

Sorry, the bashing of people of faith here seems to be a way of life. Wish it weren't true.

[darkstar3]

67. Read Me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8325557&mesg_id=8333113

[KonaKane]

76. Ridiculous thread.

Full of presumption, misplaced anger, innuendo and prejudice. I cannot believe you have the nards to post it. Like turning in a 5th grade paper on your summer vacation to a potential employer.

[darkstar3]

80. And yet the post I linked to explains something you should understand.

[KonaKane]

84. I understand it fine. I simply reject bigotry and prejudice.

And I would have expected that be shared on a place like DU. Guess there are some bigotries that are acceptable here though.

[darkstar3]

89. There certainly are,

like bigotry against women, fat people, and those with difficult to diagnose medical conditions such as certain types of allergies, autism, or ADD.

And that doesn't even get into the fact that we find it perfectly acceptable to be bigoted against right-wing lunatics, which BTW was the point of the post you didn't understand.

[KonaKane]

91. So if I were a fat, female thyroid case....

would you treat me better than me as a religious person?

[darkstar3]

93. As if being a fat, female thyroid case

would preclude you being religious. Your statement is ridiculous, as usual, not to mention using your own broad brush.

If you can tell me in this thread how I've somehow abused you and treated you worse than how fat people get treated in GD, I will be shocked. I have no tolerance for people who claim persecution where it is non-existent, but I certainly haven't done to you what is done to ACTUAL FUCKIN' MINORITIES every day in this country and on this board. Grow a skin.

[KonaKane]

95. Looks like I touched a nerve.

Now if I can just get you to think, we'll be getting somewhere.

[darkstar3]

97. Still waiting for that proof,

or failing that a recognition of the fact that you aren't close to persecuted here, and the more you whine about it the worse you look.

[KonaKane]

100. Proof that DU is rife with bigotry against people of faith?

you are certainly kidding, right?

[darkstar3]

101. That's "people".

I can do that too.

And DU is rife with posts about religions. Are you your religion?

[KonaKane]

103. Read the post again. It's spelled correctly.

And yes, DU is rife with posts about religion...bashing it.

I am me, a religious person. Why this upsets you so much is anyone's guess.

[darkstar3]

106. Now.

Do you not see the red text that says "edited on", just like my post below? I take it you don't like mirrors yourself.

You are not your religion. If you cannot identify yourself as anything beyond your religion, then you suffer from psychological problems that you should definitely have evaluated by a professional.

[KonaKane]

107. I'm psycho because I'm religious?

Wow, how Stalin of you. Are you sure you want to go down that road?

[darkstar3]

109. And there's ANOTHER farcical argumentation method.

You're really hitting the notes tonight.

Did I say you were psycho because of your religion? Nope. I said if you can't be more than simply you're religion, you might have psychological problems. Note that being "psycho"(otic) is another thing entirely.

[KonaKane]

111. Dissemblence. Who said I am only my religion?

You made that one up, in your fevered spin to substantiate your hate. THAT, my friend, sounds a little south of psycho.

[darkstar3]

113. Actually, you did,

when you claimed that posts here that are specifically about religions persecute you personally. Look upthread.

Oh, and by all means, keep throwing the hate paint. At this point you are cartoonish, and I'm interested to see how much of a parody you can make of yourself.

[KonaKane]

124. Actually, you need to learn how to read.

I said that bigotry against people of faith is rampant on DU, and it is. If that chaps your hide so much, perhaps you can do a little introspection and maybe do something positive to change that direction.

[darkstar3]

129. No it isn't, and you admitted as much in this quote:

And yes, DU is rife with posts about religion...bashing it.

You are not your religion, and it is sad that you can't see that.

[KonaKane]

132. You made a purse out of a sow's ear. Try again.

My quote said nothing even close to your insinuation. You need to get over bashing religious people, for two reasons: it won't do any good, and it's no way for a so called progressive/liberal to act.

[darkstar3]

136. Put up or shut up.

Where did I bash religious people? Link me, please.

[11 Bravo]

123. I used the word "chubby" once to describe a RW female pundit, and the post was deleted.

You are either misinformed, or deliberately obtuse.

[bobbolink]

118. ?????????????????

[PassingFair]

134. I frequently vote for theists!

Even though I'm an atheist! That's how totally tolerant I am!

:patriot:

[SocialistLez]

2. One candidate in AR for state legislature

tried to make an issue out of her opponents lack of church attendance.

I am not sure if the accusations are true but she tried to garner votes by saying she's actively involved in the faith community.

Honestly I could care less how many times you attend church. Just get shit done.

[11 Bravo]

4. And some poor schmuck in Alabama is being forced to defend creationism ...

just to keep his head above water in the gubernatorial contest. Craziness!

[racaulk]

5. I'm an atheist and I agree with you.

I'll gladly vote for, campaign for, and donate to someone of any faith as long as I feel their stances on the issues largely mirror my own. Their own personal faith, or lack thereof, is irrelevant to me and should not be an automatic qualifier or disqualifier for elected office.

[Oregone]

6. I'm an agnostic who would hesitate to vote for a Christian candidate

"I could give a flying fuck what anyone else believes or does not believe"

If we are to trust people who will create policy, their propensity to "believe" period, as well as believe in mythology, is fair game.

[11 Bravo]

10. Here's the thing, Sparky. You don't get to decide what's "mythology".

In your position, I might have written "what I believe to be a myth", but then I clearly lack your ego. In any case, we'll all sleep better knowing you won't be voting for a Canadian politician of any religious persuasion. That shit was keeping me up at night.

[Oregone]

15. Regardless, Its still belief

And a public servant who is susceptible to belief can engage in irresponsible and dangerous actions

[11 Bravo]

20. Belief in anything? I believe that all people are created equal. Does that make me ...

dangerous and irresponsible?

[Oregone]

22. Depending on how tightly you cling to beliefs, and how often you practice believing...

Yes...this pattern of behavior can make you susceptible to acting in the future on other detrimental beliefs too.

A politician that often believes is another definition for a gullible politician. You must exercise your brain in an illogical manner and accept an idea as true without full factual basis (and often such belief results in action). Practicing this illogical pattern of thought only makes one better at doing it in the future. And religion can take this to a whole other level.

I suggest that you should act not on belief at all, but rather upon evidence and facts. And I would also suggest that once you can prove a belief, it is no longer one (but rather, a fact).

[11 Bravo]

28. First you determine which beliefs are "mythology" and now you will mandate which are "detrimental".

That's an awesome responsibility you carry around there, Ace. If you weren't such a righteous, lefty dude, someone might confuse you with a zealot possessed by delusions of omniscience.

[Oregone]

30. Religion is mythology

You should enjoy this:
http://www.peirce.org/writings/p107.html


Zealot is a silly word to use for someone who is not a fan of belief.

[11 Bravo]

33. So, you believe that religion is mythology, but everyone else's beliefs suck.

Unless, of course you can provide empirical evidence that "religion is mythology" (and because you think so doesn't count). If you can, you will have proved a negative, and you just may be as wise and all-knowing as you obviously believe (there's that word again) yourself to be.

[Oregone]

34. As far as I know, it is by definition

Belief has nothing to do with it. The terms are nearly synonymous in my own lexicon. If I am mistaken, it is a misunderstanding of basic language, not a misshapen "belief"

[11 Bravo]

48. "As far as I know" ... You might have said "I believe". And that's my point.

[Oregone]

50. Knowledge and beliefs are not synonymous

[LanternWaste]

52. Does that only apply to religion

"And a public servant who is susceptible to belief..."

Does that only apply to religion or to all other man-made constructs which appear no where but our own imaginations (e.g., philosophy, politics, economics, etc.)?

[dmallind]

17. But the problem is mythology has only a sloppy vernacular meaning of "false"

and actually means a set of traditional stories told about heroes or gods that explains some aspect of a culture's worldview or archetypes. So whether he gets to decide it or not, he used it more correctly than you.

[whathehell]

36. Thank you !

:thumbsup:

[ladjf]

63. Looks like we need the definition of the word "myth". nt

[darkstar3]

69. Who does?

Zeus is mythological.

So is Mithra, Thor, and an incredible host of other icons worshipped through the ages. Who decided they were mythological? When was it acceptable to call them myths?

The word you're looking for is "Zeitgeist".

[whathehell]

13. How about a Jewish candidate?...Or a Muslim candidate?

I have a feeling your sneering dismal of supposed "mythology" is largely restricted to Christianity...Can you say "bigot"?

[Oregone]

18. I feel pretty much the same

Unless by "Jewish" you are referring to ethnicity, and not religion

I don't think its a sign of a bigot to prefer rational public servants.

[whathehell]

29. You feel "pretty much" the same?.

Somehow, I doubt it...judging by some of your other posts, I think you're one of the "christian equals right wing" crowd.

Even if it IS true, it leaves you with a pathetically small pool of people to vote for...I know the atheists rue the fact, but most people in this country are NOT atheists or even agnostics.

[Oregone]

31. Pretty much, yes

I think you are starting to build some unnecessary straw men there.

The notion of electing people who "believe" instead of "know" things has always most certainly troubled me. It has nothing to do with Christianity vs other religions.

You are free to believe that though.

And yes, it leaves me a very small pool of people to vote for, without being concerned about that aspect. But can you find anyone without a blemish? I merely mentioned I would hesitate.

[whathehell]

35. Sure

Because we all "know" everything, right?

My dear, if we had no room for "suspecting" or "believing"..Where would be the incentive to "prove"?

[Oregone]

40. There is no need to prove anything once you affix a belief.

The concept of "proof" is fundamentally contradictory to the notion of believing. Belief sits outside the scientific process, needing no further reinforcement (while "suspecting" is an entirely different animal).


"Because we all "know" everything, right?"

Not at all, but we should know what we do not know, and we should not act upon those areas in a rash, irresponsible manner.

For example, we should not invade and bomb a country because we believe we are unsafe, or because we believe they have weapons of mass destruction. Any *idea* that we may have should be fully investigated prior to action to confirm a fact that will be grounds for action (or not). Otherwise, people get hurt from irrationality.

[whathehell]

44. I'm not talking about "blind" belief...

Which really is more accurately termed "blind faith".

I don't have "blind faith"..and I don't accept the distinction between "suspect" and "belief".

"For example, we should not invade and bomb a country because we believe we are unsafe, or because we believe they have weapons of mass destruction. Any *idea* that we may have should be fully investigated prior to action to confirm a fact that will be grounds for action (or not). Otherwise, people get hurt from irrationality".

It sounds like you're talking about the Bush Administration's decision to invade Iraq....I wouln't confuse ANYTHING they did with regard to foriegn affairs, especially, as being remotely associated with anything other than greed and imperialism.

[Oregone]

45. So are you talking about "ideas"?

Sometimes called a hypothesis? Yeah, you test those before you act.

But belief...you don't need to test belief. You just "believe". Many times, as in the case of religion, you can't even test it if you wanted to.

http://www.peirce.org/writings/p107.html

[whathehell]

57. Throughout history, we were often not able to test "hypothesis"

until we had the proper instruments...So people who may have "believed" or "sensed" that diseases came from something other than evil humors were at a disadvantage.

Strict empiricism is highly dependent on technology, which is one of the reasons I'm not a strict empiricist and I AM open to the possibility of a higher power...If you are not open to that possiblity, that's fine, but I feel no need to either "explain" or "justify" my perspective on the matter.

In the world of politics, actions are more important than "beliefs" anyway...That, as far as I'm concerned, is the beginning and end of it.

[Oregone]

60. "I AM open to the possibility"

Sounds like thats not a belief then. Unless you aren't open to the alternative possibility


"In the world of politics, actions are more important than "beliefs" anyway"

Beliefs are grounds for actions. People do not act without reason (but often act with bad reason).

[whathehell]

115. I'm glad you're open to the possibility.

As for the rest...People often do act for a "reason"..but that reason, religious or not, is not always bad.

In addition, I would argue that people often act withOUT reason (emotional reactions)and that there actions are often motivated by nothing more "religious" than greed and self-interest.

Now, to be honest, Oregone, I'm getting bored with this subject and we're probably not very far apart anyway, so I'm suggesting that we give it a rest.

..See ya:hi:

[muffin1]

47. +1,000,000

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

59. So I guess you have rarely voted in Presidential elections? nt

[NutmegYankee]

7. I'm a Christian and I judge a candidate on the Issues as well.

I'd have no problem voting for an atheist if he shared my liberal views. Most atheists I know have better humanitarian views than many people of faith.

[DailyGrind51]

9. I vote on the issues, not the candidate or his/her beliefs or non-beliefs!

[one_voice]

11. I'm also Christian and wouldn't hesitate to..

vote for an atheist or agnostic candidate. Sometimes I think it would be better. I get tired of the "which candidate loves God more game".

[noamnety]

12. I suspect every atheist on DU who is old enough to have voted

has voted for a Christian.

It's kind of weird to see that it's post worthy that a Christian might hypothetically vote for an open atheist.

[Junkie Brewster]

16. Amen

Pun fully intended.

[enlightenment]

23. I agree with that -

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out what prompted this OP . . .

[whathehell]

37. Considering the much-believed nonsense that "Christianity = Conservatism"

around here, I'd say it is NOT.

[riderinthestorm]

61. I know right, how brave to admit you'd (gasp!) vote for an open atheist.

:eyes:

If this doesn't encapsulate so much of the problem with this issue, I don't know what does.

[darkstar3]

71. Well said.

:thumbsup:

[PassingFair]

137. Ramen!

This OP is pure flamebait, and you
have framed it perfectly!

:hi:

[DailyGrind51]

138. If Dr. Albert Schwietzer were alive today, I would vote for him for any office!

He was an atheist, but had the same devotion to healing as did Jesus Christ.

[VMI Dem]

21. Which ones have you voted for?

[11 Bravo]

25. Don't know, it's not printed on the ballot. (And my oldest son starts his Rat year ...

next summer.)

[chillspike]

24. As an Atheist I have a lot of respect for Jesus

Yes, Jesus can be appreciated on a religious level but there is something beautiful about his life and words that can be appreciated on a secular level as well. As if the spiritual was a metaphor for our earthly existence instead of the other way around.

I'm glad for Christian's such as yourself.

[marybourg]

26. I'm sure you already have. nt.

[whathehell]

39. Probably...and who here gives a shit?

..This isn't Free Republic.

[rzemanfl]

27. Well, as an atheist I am really God damned proud of you, no ....

wait....

[11 Bravo]

38. OK, now you owe me a new keyboard ...

you fucking heathen.

:hide:

[rzemanfl]

117. If I had to replace all the keyboards people at DU said I owed

them, I'd need a factory.

[Duer 157099]

41. When I see a candidate mentioning their church attendance

on their campaign fliers, I tend to not vote for them if it's possible.

It's not that I don't want any particular religious creed in office, it's that I don't want it part of the decision in them getting into office.

[Oregone]

42. Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote

"He's a-runnin' for office on the ballot note
He's out there preachin' in front of the steeple
Tellin' me he loves all kinds-a people
(He's eatin' bagels
He's eatin' pizza
He's eatin' chitlins)."

I Shall Be Free - Dylan

:)

[Peacetrain]

43. I vote for the best person...period.. and I am a Christian also.

Lots of evil has been done by people claiming to be Christians, but doing 180 degrees opposite of that.


EDIT TO ADD... K&R.. :)

[JoeyT]

46. I'm with you man.

I'm an atheist and I'll vote for anyone that shares my political beliefs. (Or actually the closest, since my chances of finding a candidate as far left as I am is about equally as likely as an open atheist running in my state)

People are VERY good at compartmentalizing. Just because someone has a belief in their religion doesn't mean they're going to take foreign policy advice on faith.

[opihimoimoi]

49. The "A's" are the SANE ONES.....get them and ya got Paradise for REAL...not the GATEs in the SKY

[KonaKane]

55. I'll contact Martin Luther King and let him know your opinion.

Those damn religious people. They never did a thing for a better world, did they.

[Bill McBlueState]

58. insane people are *perfectly* capable of doing good in the world

So your post is kind of a non-sequitur.

[KonaKane]

77. MLK was religious. Ergo, you would have a problem with him too.

Seems pretty straightforward. And exposes the ludicrous bigotry against religious people for the farce that it is.

[Bill McBlueState]

116. I don't have a problem with MLK.

:shrug:

[KonaKane]

126. But many of the religion bashers here would, if they were honest.

.

[darkstar3]

72. Old, tired, and pointless.

To be clear, I mean your argument, not you.

[KonaKane]

78. Thank you for failing to rebut it.

That's usually how it goes, though.

[darkstar3]

82. What's to rebut?

There's nothing there, as usual.

[KonaKane]

85. You just failed again. Thanks.

.

[darkstar3]

88. Fushta!!

:rofl:

[Junkie Brewster]

121. While you're at it, could you contact my grandfather?

If you get him, please ask him about the lakeside cabin he left. My mom and her brothers can't stop arguing over what to do about it. Thanks!

[KonaKane]

127. I tried, but only got his answering machine. I asked him to call back.

.

[JerseygirlCT]

56. +1 nt

[Angry Dragon]

66. I believe you truly are one person that can call yourself a Christian

[Throd]

70. I'm an atheist who would not hesitate to vote for a religious candidate.

[darkstar3]

73. Do you also have black/chinese/gay/handicapped friends?

Considering that voting people into public office based solely on whether you believe they will represent you best during their service, I would expect this behavior from everyone.

Do you want a cookie? Should I genuflect to your superior moral fiber? :eyes:

[KonaKane]

79. Wow, the bitterness.

I feel really awful for you that something must have happened in your youth to make such an irrational hatred pop up in you.

[darkstar3]

83. Sure.

I pity you and the OPer, that you will not see the incredible similarities between this line of discussion and the "I have black friends" gambit. It's just so there and plain as day. As my parents say, "If it were a snake it would have bitten you."

[KonaKane]

86. It must suck to live with so much hate.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[darkstar3]

87. Hate

would be the desire to eliminate you, to beat you, to kill you, to wipe you and those who agree with you from existence.

What I possess is an overdeveloped sense of sarcasm, seasoned with a healthy dose of cynicism. Now, if you're looking for hate, try a Pope thread.

[KonaKane]

90. That's "cynicism".

And you don't possess much more. Hate is not encompassed by a desire to eliminate me, but regard me as less than human, or less than a legitimate member of our society, because I am a person of faith. This is teabagger behavior, not something I would expect from DU.

Maybe you should take a few steps back and reexamine yourself.

[darkstar3]

92. Well excuse the hell out of me for a spelling mistake at one in the morning.

As for the rest of your drivel, I'm glad I could be here to feed your persecution complex. I hope you get a big wooden cross for your next birthday or christmas celebration, so that you carry it around with you to remind everyone of just how awfully persecuted you are, Mr. Member-of-the-Major-Majority.

Gag me with a fuckin' spoon...

[KonaKane]

94. As usual with haters, you make a number of stupid assumptions.

First off, your "cross" comment. I am not Christian, so a cross doesn't mean much to me. Secondly, you assume that because I reject the common bigotry here of some against peopel of faith, that I suffer from a "persecution complex". If I were a member of your favorite minority group, you wouldn't be saying that.

Lastly, you assume that I am a majority. I most certainly am not, in fact there is a good chance that my religious standing puts me in a status of minority that is smaller even than yours.

Now, use a spoon for eating. And stop gagging on your hate.

[darkstar3]

96. If I bought that load, I'd buy a beachfront in AZ.

I recognize too many of the common farcical argumentation tactics in your writing to believe for one second that you aren't part of the once powerful Moral Majority.

Now learn to tell the difference between hate and the inability to suffer fools gladly.

[KonaKane]

98. Must be nice to live according to your own fevered fantasies.

You know, to tell people what they are even when it's not even close to reality. You sure you aren't a teabagger?

[darkstar3]

99. There's another of those farcical argumentation methods I mentioned.

Keep digging, you're only making me believe you less.

[KonaKane]

102. I'm not here to make you believe anything. Just to hold up a mirror.

And you sure don't like what you see, I can gather from your increasingly angry commentary.

[darkstar3]

104. Oh?

I thought you were trying to get me to believe that you were persecuted, that you were part of a small minority, and that DU was a place that was hostile to you? Must have been all that whining you did earlier...

[KonaKane]

105. I'm just standing up for myself, which few religious people on DU are wont to do.

Sorry if that upsets you. See, I have this thing against bashing minorities. It's the liberal in me.

[darkstar3]

108. I'll remember that the next time I see a thread about fat people

or about women, or about "fundamentalist atheists", or any other number of favorite scapegoats here in GD.

And there's a difference, BTW, between standing up for yourself, and simply trying to tear down the other guy. Here's a phrase you should get to know: "Ad hom tu quoque is a logical fallacy, not an argument."

[KonaKane]

112. I can tell you're not used to religious people standing up to your beligerence.

I guess you'd better get used to it. At least, from this one.

[darkstar3]

114. I guess you're not used to reading about logical fallacies,

because you're still using one.

[KonaKane]

125. There's nothing logical about bigotry.

No matter how fashionable you think yours is.

[darkstar3]

133. And there's nothing logical about your accusations.

You still haven't shown where I have persecuted you. All we have here is my lack of acceptance of your whining tirade about how persecuted you are.

Show me how persecuted you are. Show me the welts from the whip, pink slips from multiple employers due to the color of your skin or nationality of your birth. Show me the scars from the tire irons people beat you with when they found out you were gay. Show me one god-damn thing that remotely qualifies as you being persecuted, because all I see so far is you whining about it.

[Name removed]

143. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

119. ( a bit of tongue-in-cheek for ya)

[timtom]

139. Saving this thread for future discussions

on critical thinking. And debate. And argumentation.

There are many glittering examples of complete lack of or inability to...

Likewise, there are many measured and even-toned statements of belief and opinion.

It's the tone, fellow DUer's -- It's the tone!

[JanMichael]

141. Thank you! It really is all about the issues.

Sort of like how I'd vote for a Lefty Christian well before I'd vote for a Fascist Randroid even though I'm not all all religious.

Not all Randroids are Reichwing like Ayn Rand but the ones who are can be even less tolerant and flexible than Fundy Christians.

[and-justice-for-all]

142. Thank you, I appreciate that...nt