Hackers Can Remotely Disable Your BRAKES (And They Say E-Voting's Secure?)

[snot]

"A team of researchers at the University of Washington and the University of California San Diego have determined that . . . a hacker could 'adversarially control a wide range of automotive functions and completely ignore driver input -- including disabling the brakes, selectively braking individual wheels on demand, stopping the engine, and so on.' For example, the team was able to connect a computer to a car's ODB-II port, access that computer wirelessly, and then disable the brakes in the first car while driving down the road in a separate vehicle."

More re- car-hacking at http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/14/hackers-can-remotely-disable-your-cars-brakes-create-sensation .

[foxfeet]

1. Oh, fine. Now Toyota will have a new excuse.

[Ikonoklast]

2. You first have to hook up a wireless connection to the ODB-II port.

Otherwise, this cannot be done in a random fashion.

Misleading title.

[NoGOPZone]

3. So in addition to drive by wire, we now have drive by wireless?

However, I would certainly notice something connected to my OBD-II port.

[yodoobo]

5. Most people would

Especially when they bang their knees on it getting into the car.

[madokie]

14. On both our fords, f150 and explorer

the connection is up where you have to get down on your knees and look under the dash by the steering column so I don't think I would automatically know that something was plugged in the connector. Just saying

[NoGOPZone]

22. MIne's right by the shift console, believe it or not. However, most seem to be under the dash. nt

[yodoobo]

4. Doesn't seem that shocking really

So let me get this straight. They can take a computer and attach it to the my car, and then control it from another car traveling nearby.


Anyone who has watched myth busters knows that car remote control systems have been around for a very long time.


Now when they can remotely control my car WITHOUT adding hardware to it - Page me.

[icymist]

6. There's a reason why I drive older cars.

Not only are they fun to work on they don't have the computer nonsense. The automakers need to work the bugs out of the computers before they put them in automobiles.

[Trillo]

8. Those are a fast disappearing breed,

given that the first computers were in production vehicles by the 1970s.

Despite best efforts, unless its mothballed in a garage, they simply wear out.

Soon we're supposed to have electric cars.......tick. tock. tick. tock.

<edit> shh. Don't tell anyone. Tesla had an electric car back in the early 1900s. tick tock tick tock

[icymist]

10. The cars that had those stupid spark control computers in the 70s ran lousy!

The cars that had those stupid spark control computers in the 70s ran lousy!
A friend had a Cordorba that broke down every other week because of that computer. At that time I was driving around in a six banger Camaro, with a three speed shift on the floor. Not only very fun to drive, it got about 26mpg. They're out there. You just need to find a good one and keep it up and running good.

[Trillo]

20. Mercedes Benz had the Bosch fuel injection.

1972 or 3 or thereabouts. It was an early version with fewer sensors, but basically the same as those of more production-vehicle brands of the 1980s.

[TexasProgresive]

19. That's not the way it is with computers

They put out hard and software full of bugs and sell it. At least Microsoft does.

[PJPhreak]

21. My next Automobile...

No Computers.
Parts Forever.
Good MPG.
Durable and Reliable.
And a very large "Cool Factor"

[WeDidIt]

7. Hackers can disable your brakes far easier than this way!

Two seconds under the car, brake line cut.

Much much easier than breaking into the car, setting up a computer, figuring some way to hide said computer, then connecting to it with another computer.

Fuck that hit.

Two seconds under the car is far easier.

[Lance_Boyle]

9. The researchers also found that this is not a problem, only a theoretical issue

Good old-fashioned brake-line tampering is far simpler, and less likely to be detected than someone else's laptop hooked up to your ODB-II port while a car tails you closely to maintain an ad-hoc connection to that mysterious laptop's wireless.

Physical access trumps security pretty much every time.

[snot]

11. Sorry if I missed that . . . where?

[Lance_Boyle]

17. sorry, my reply to you ended up as a reply to myself.

Strange happenings at the Dee Yoo...

[Lance_Boyle]

15. From the NetworkWorld coverage of the same story:

"He and co-researcher Tadayoshi Kohno of the University of Washington, describe the real-world risk of any of the attacks they've worked out as extremely low."

http://www.networkworld.com/cgi-bin/mailto/x.cgi?pagetosend=/news/2010/051410-car-hackers-can-kill-brakes.html&pageurl=http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/051410-car-hackers-can-kill-brakes.html&site=printpage

"An attacker would have to have sophisticated programming abilities and also be able to physically mount some sort of computer on the victim's car to gain access to the embedded systems. But as they look at all of the wireless and Internet-enabled systems the auto industry is dreaming up for tomorrow's cars, they see some serious areas for concern."

[BeFree]

12. E-voting is secure

It, e-voting, has always been secure. Just because bushco had friends who built and programmed the e-vote counters doesn't mean anything. Bushco wouldn't allow the vote to be miscounted.

Leave bushco alone!!!

[Make7]

13. Perhaps people will use remote auto control for good instead of ill.

"Hackers help prevent area woman from getting another speeding ticket when driving within radar range of highway patrol by slowing down her automobile."

"Good samaritan prevents accident by steering car for area man that had a few too many at local bar."

"Environmentalists hack into car's computer and increase fuel mileage by 34 percent."
 

[Alameda]

16. Hmmm....you have a nice dream...but I'm afraid, it is not likely

[hunter]

18. Hacker destroys engines of 50 million U.S. automobiles...

Take that, BP!

[Rex]

23. Wow that is a conspiracy theorists wetdream!

[Statistical]

24. So if they have access to you car they can

a) attach a computer to your car (hopefully you don't cable coming out of ODB-II port below glove box.
b) simply cut your brake lines or attach a bomb to the car

OH NOES

In information technology world there is a saying:
"There is no electronic security without physical security".
Meaning that if hacker has physical access to your server you are fucked. Guess this applies to cars too.

[hedgehog]

25. and people laugh at my '76 Chevette!

When the brakes fail, it's because I'm not pushing hard enough!

[Ikonoklast]

26. *Cough*

They aren't laughing at the car...

[hedgehog]

27. !

:rofl:

[POAS]

28. Picking a nit---It should be OBD-II not ODB-II

Stands for "On Board Diagnostics" in its second iteration.

I'd think an editor of a "gadget" website would have caught that!