Men who batter think other guys do, too

[ccharles000]

U. WASHINGTON (US)—Men who engage in domestic violence consistently overestimate how common such behavior is, and the more they overestimate, the more they engage in abusing their partner.

“We don’t know why men make these overestimations, but there are a couple of likely reasons,” says Clayton Neighbors, an affiliate professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at the University of Washington and a professor of psychology at the University of Houston.

“Men who engage in violent behavior justify it in their mind by thinking it is more common and saying, ‘Most guys slap their women around so it is okay to engage in it.’ Or it could be that misperceptions about violence cause the behavior.”

Neighbors says these men overestimated by two to three times the actual rates of seven behaviors ranging from throwing something at a partner to rape. Details of the study will be published in the journal Violence Against Women.

http://futurity.org/society-culture/men-who-batter-think-other-guys-do-too/

[Odin2005]

1. Projection and social conditioning.

[EFerrari]

2. Yup. My ex couldn't figure out why I eventually couldn't watch

"The Honeymooners" reruns any more even though we both loved comedy. I couldn't stand the yelling. He didn't even hear it.

[JerseygirlCT]

4. I always always hated that show.

Even as a little girl. You put your finger right on it.

[seabeyond]

6. yup. nt

[EFerrari]

14. It's an apt metaphor for the lives of a lot of girls and women.

If Alice eats the abuse, she will be rewarded with something she wants. That's what watching that show is like for women: if you can swallow the abusiveness, you might have a good time.

No and no thanks, & I love Gleason. He was genius, imo.

[NNN0LHI]

20. Yea, but didn't Ralph usually end up making a putz out of himself on every show?

Alice and Trixie always appeared to be the brains of the operations. Ralph and Norton were always portrayed as the dummies.

I brive a dus. :rofl:

Or do I see it differently as a man?

Don

[EFerrari]

23. Oh, yeah. Sure they did!

That's exactly right. lol

But check it out next time you see one: if you're a woman minding the threat of violence, watching that show, it's just too much. And it was the constant shouting -- shouting being in some families a signal that worse can happen to you at any time.

[RagAss]

21. I don't remember the show that way....Alice always made an Assclown out of Ralph..

...at least that's how I recall it....Ralph would blow off all his steam and Alice would calmly answer with classic lines like "Now that you have your gasbag filled, why don't you float away".

[EFerrari]

25. I think you remember right.

He never hit her, did he? Because he always pulls back or she always deflates his rage.

The show could be captioned, "Working class couple sticks together no matter what". But it could also be "Working class wife manages her ragaholic husband without injury". No matter how many times someone tells you that you're the greatest, you remember the yelling and that he's twice as big as you are.

/oops

[RKP5637]

22. I know exactly what you mean. I used to like the show years ago when a kid, but then when I saw

the reruns I thought, wow, this was really an abusive show. The comedy is funny, but there were certainly scenes, plenty, wherein the verbal abuse was so hostile. I like all of the actors, I think it just hit a bit too much on the reality in our society of domestic violence. For some men it probably glorified it. Ralph does it, so it must be OK.

I also think many men are absolute jerks, and I am a man myself. I see some men married to the nicest women, but the husband looks and acts like an absolute jerk. I suppose the converse is true too...

[EFerrari]

27. Yep. Jerks come in all shapes and sizes.

It's funny because I love the characters, the actors and the premise. It was just the constant verbal abusiveness that puts me off.

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

3. men who go to strip clubs say ALL men do it. men that obsess on porn say ALL men do it

men that cheat on their wives say ALL men do it. men that talk trash about their woman or other women say ALL men do it.

a phenomenon i have noticed on DU for a while. asked hubby and he said " justify it in their mind by thinking it is more common and saying, ‘Most guys " to validate their behavior.


oh oh on edit: per one thread on du, men that would fuck a robot female doll.... all men would do it. that was the funniest and actually had men saying, not this man. lol

[NeedleCast]

12. That's broad brushing

I go to strip clubs and watch porn but know many men who don't. Why they don't is a fairly mixed bag of reasons, though. I would certainly never claim that all men do either.

[seabeyond]

15. i hear ya. and thanks for the post. and you are right. bottom line, we hear it on du from men

i am sure not all men will say all men beat their wives. i am sure all men that beat their wives dont say all men.

but the broad brushing really is coming from the men that say all men.

i didnt say all men that go to strip bars, or all men that look at porn, or all men that talk bad about wives....all say.

i say, we see it on du.

[Initech]

28. Hey I'm a guy and I seriously hate going to strip clubs.

I've been to a few of them and they're all so intimidating. They're designed to get you to spend every cent you have on the strippers. And
I have friends (who for the sake of this thread shall remain anonymous) that spend hundreds of dollars at a time when they go to them.

[seabeyond]

33. exactly

lol

it is just i had been listening to so many men on du for too long and it was messing up my thinking. my hubby went to a couple when he was younger. by the time he and i hooked up, he hadnt been for years. no interest. i would say. but but but the guys on du. he thinks yawl are really (ok not you) messed up and doesnt appreciate some of my but but but. (mostly teasing).

but, i have had to look elsewhere to get a sense of "male" other than du. i am seeing the ones that are the loudest are not necessarily the majority.

thanks for your post initech

[Codeine]

47. My friends are amazed when I tell them I've never been to one.

And then everyone takes it upon themselves to ensure that "Jason is going to his first strip bar!" Sometimes even the women I've dated get like that! "Come on, you can watch me get a lapdance!"

And there is just no way in hell I'm going. I actually find the prospect extremely stressful.

[pipi_k]

5. Makes sense to me...

If you grow up seeing it (and many/most of them do), then you think it's "normal".


I grew up seeing a lot of awful things myself. I thought it was "normal" and that my friends' parents were doing the same things. If I was playing at their houses, I would often leave as soon as their dads got home from work. I was always just a little bit afraid of their fathers.

I thought everyone's family must be the same as mine.

[seabeyond]

11. wow pipi

that is sad. what we like to do in this home and i have told hubby, ... a particular child that i know shit is going on in his home, i will tell hubby he needs to connect and interact so child can see there is differences. that what he is living doesnt have to be.

and it has been more than one child we have done this with.

i had two homes i did not like to be in when dad came home. but because they made me feel uncomfortable and i knew that was not normal.

[EFerrari]

29. I don't know how old you are. I'm 54. And there was a weird thing

on television in the early sixties. Those pretty groomed suburban women all over the sitcoms were subject to their husband's corporal punishment. So, even if you didn't have a violent dad at home, you did get the message that Dad could do that when Ricky spanked Lucy in prime time. :shrug:

[seabeyond]

34. "Ricky spanked Lucy ". yes. i cant hear john wayne today without thinking

about him stalky whoever and putting her over his knees. i have about ruined john wayne for hubby and kids. my nose wrinkles. but this is what we young girls grew up with. it was also us that said fuck that, in the 70's. (i am a little younger, lol)

[EFerrari]

36. The 70s is when I said fuckit, too. I was twenty in 75.

The name you want is Maureen O'Hara. And one of my favorite movies is "Red River". :)

[seabeyond]

43. dont know the movie. yup, that is the woman

hubby finally said something to me the other day.... it was just ONE of his movies he did that. oh, lol lol. i thought it was a norm.

[Rex]

7. Because they want to believe in the common evil?

They want to believe most men are monsters like themselves?

[hedgehog]

8. I am very, very fortunate with the men in my life - I thought the OP

was a joking reference to men barbecuing!

My reaction goes to show that unless you've encountered domestic violence, you won't have an automatic understanding.

[RKP5637]

16. My sister was abused by her husband. I had long talks with her and she

finally divorced him. She felt if only she were a better wife he would not abuse her. The thinking that goes on in domestic violence always amazes me. I think you are quite correct in saying, "unless you've encountered domestic violence, you won't have an automatic understanding." My reaction was WTF, but my sister's was she's got to be a better wife. Fortunately she did far better the second time around.

[seabeyond]

19. see, beyond my comprehension too. i dont think i have even had a man

be mean, or disrespectful, let alone abusive. a hint of pissy from hubby gets my dander up, lol. back same for him too. neither of us will allow it.

[Codeine]

9. Nothing new there.

Thieves are the first to accuse others of stealing, drunk drivers think everyone has climbed behind the wheel of their car with a load on, and child abusers think everyone smacks their kid around.

[seabeyond]

17. true that codeine. thanks for the reminder. you are right on. generally

when we do something we know is wrong, we try in some ways to justify adn validate, to make ok for us. and this is one of the ways we do it. absolutely. thanks.

[kctim]

10. They also

change their tune real damn quick when THEY become the battered. Them thinking we all do it just a bonus reason to interfere.

[ZombieHorde]

13. My belief in the extreme importance of education continues to be reinforced. nt

[Echo In Light]

18. Also explains why some Cons/Authoritarians are so hateful toward any who don't support their views

Such types are often quick to align their own subjectivity w/a supposed 'Majority' view to try to shout down other views/neutralize contrary, unconventional views

[Lerkfish]

24. not surprising, racists do the same thing.

Nothing curdles my blood more than a racist looking at me, a white male, and making some racist comment in a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" sort of way, assuming I'm as racist as he is.

I remember one time I was trying to find a car I could fit in comfortably (I'm 6/4" and most of my height is torso), so out of desperation, I tried a luxury Lexus. Still couldn't fit. I said to the salesperson "Gee, I'd have thought a luxury car would have enough head room" to which he replied "You know, its because of all those squinty-eyed rice eaters, they don't think anyone is taller than them". And then he smiled at me as if waiting for me to laugh with him. I turned on my heels and left the lot.

[Echo In Light]

26. Those kind will then usually tell you they're "Just Kidding."

And when they tell you that, they're usually not

[seabeyond]

35. we had a thread on here the other day. we are all racist.... no, doesnt have to be

i dont accept that. i dont allow the conditioning of all to a lesser of who we are.

[freeplessinseattle]

30. I remember my dad's pep talk with my ex-fiance

My mom sat silently, would glance at my bruises then glare at me a moment, while my dad told my abuser that he could "understand why you'd want to hit a woman, hell, I tried to drown my ex wife in the bathtub, women can make you crazy, but if you touch my daughter again I'll break your arms."

So thoughtful. Didn't stop the abuse, all he did would throw a blanket on top of me before he beat me, and beg me not to tell my dad.

My mom's solution was to bring me an article entitled "how to criticize your husband nicely". Seriously.

This was nearly 20 years ago so I have dealt with it for the most part, but it really sucked to essentially have no support at the time, and have the abusive behavior validated.

[seabeyond]

38. first a wow

with your dads reasoning

then a ahhhhm

with your moms solution. i am so sorry you didnt have better support

[freeplessinseattle]

44. Thanks:) sadly, his reaction is probably not uncommon

seems abusers can feel like they need to be protective of their daughters, man's role and all, and he probably thought he was relating to my ex mano on mano, but didn't think about the implications or how it would make me feel. I'd had no idea until that point about his murder attempt on his ex-wife, not sure if my mom did either, but of course she probably blamed her for not criticizing nicely. (though my dad has a raging temper that can't be avoided no matter how my mom and tried to, so I don't know why she thought otherwise).

The good thing is that the whole thing motivated me to volunteer at a domestic violence shelter for 4 years-and while my parents didn't support that either-in that I wasn't paid, they don't get the idea of volunteering (both Republicans of course) it was very therapeutic for me and I was able to help people that also had nowhere to turn, and help them validate their feelings.

Thank you so much, it is a little personal and still stings a little to talk about but it's been so long what the hell, and I know my dad isn't unusual in the way he thinks.

[Mojeoux]

48. I wrote a song called "The Ballad of Jack and Mary." Back in the 70s, people said, "Don't

get involved. It's their business."

I wrote my song to make up for all the times we stood by and said nothing.

[freeplessinseattle]

49. So right on. My parents did nothing about our neighbors

in the 70's, who they were friends with. I clearly remember visiting my friend next door and hearing a commotion, then seeing his mom being held down and yelled at by his dad. He yelled at us to leave so we went to my house and told my parents, who did and said absolutely nothing, as far as I know, just told us to steer clear when they were fighting. They continued to socialize with them but I didn't like having his dad in my house, really bothered me, but apparentely no big deal to my parents, even when my friend lost a fingernail after "accidentally" getting his finger slammed shut in a door.

[Mojeoux]

50. It was a creepy private scandal back then. And the woman eats her shame. nt

[Skittles]

31. charles you get more handsome with every pic

yes INDEED :D

[redqueen]

37. +1

[seabeyond]

41. lol lol

i think so too. he is growing up... snif sniff, lol.

[woo me with science]

32. This is why 87 percent of women in Afghanistan report being beaten at home. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. And the partners of men who batter believe that other men do too.

Rationalization sucks.

We know exactly why people rationalize their behavior as "everyone is doing it" - it's not a mystery.

[seabeyond]

42. you are right. nt

[CLANG]

40. Men who batter have their heads up their asses and should be in jail

[JoeyT]

45. This isn't really shocking news.

And it's exactly why men need to start combating the perception that it's ok.
Once they find out that no one supports them in their behavior, it will become less common.

Edited to add: And it might make the victims much more likely to seek help once it isn't viewed as anything approaching normal by society.

[Old Troop]

46. Men who batter deserve to meet men much larger than they

who feel compelled to defend battered women.

[NashVegas]

51. Abusive Homes, In General

Many of my family members, unfortunately, expressed their anger via physical violence. As the youngest, I got the lion's share and in later life my complaints were met with, "it happens in every home."

When one of them does something that goes over the line with me - not physical anymore but general assholery - and I call them on it that's their standby: everyone does it.

[bettyellen]

52. because other men don't speak out and say how fuked up it is often enough

[undeterred]

53. And men who don't abuse often find it hard to believe

that men they know do abuse women. Its not the kind of thing abusers talk about.

[ismnotwasm]

54. A simple defense mechanism

Outside of outright misogyny, men who beat women who don't actually hate women--I'm giving a whole lot of rope here-- know on some level their behavior is bullshit. So they need to justify it.

My husband recently was on jury duty on a DV case. (Poor hubby was traumatized by this case) what he said was, when the defendant got on the stand, he blew his whole case, he was arrogant and smarmy and blamed the victim who had the absolute shit beaten out of her, tried to make himself out to be a hero FOR beating her (both were drug abusers). There were witnesses to back the defendants case and pictures taken by the police of the dents her head made in the wall as well as her injuries. This guy could have gotten off given that (according to the prosecution attorney) 70% of DV cases are lost. He evidently thought he was an all-right guy.

Convicted on all counts in part thanks to my husband.

[daleo]

55. Cognitive dissonance

People whose behavior falls short of decent standards often convince themselves that their's is a common failing, to reduce their cognitive dissonance.

It's why so many conservatives assume the human race is innately untrustworthy.