Seneca to Obama: ‘You betrayed our trust’

[The Straight Story]

Seneca to Obama: ‘You betrayed our trust’


BUFFALO, N.Y. – The Seneca Nation of Indians welcomed President Barack Obama to Buffalo with protesters in the street and a full page ad in the local newspaper saying he broke his promise to honor treaties when he signed a law that will devastate the Indian tobacco trade and put thousands of people out of work in Western New York.

The ad was in the form of an open letter.

“Dear Mr. President, Last fall you invited Native American leaders to Washington, D.C. and promised to listen to our concerns and respect our treaty rights. You pledged meaningful consultation and dialogue before any changes in federal policies impacting Indian Country.

“Your words instilled confidence and hope in the hearts of the Seneca people. We believed your pledge to make tribes full partners in the economy and give Indian children a shot at the American Dream. But, Mr. President, you failed to keep your word,” the ad said.

http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/national/93793384.html

[Angry Dragon]

1. Obama seems to be leaving a lot of broken promises

[bobbolink]

3. Many of us, sadly, are not surprised.

:(

[xiamiam]

2. yep..i feel the same but for different reasons..most of my friends and associates do as well

for some reason, i dont think he has a clue that we're over it..that change we can believe in just hasn't happened..

flame me, i dont give a crap..i'm not just disillusioned, i'm pissed

[Bobbieo]

6. Obama is leaving a 'trail of broken promises'. I was so counting

on the Native vote.

[MadBadger]

14. Nice allusion to the trail of tears

[dflprincess]

32. self delete posted in the wrong spot

[pundaint]

24. Go ahead dismiss as much of the Democrats constituency as you want. Just don't blame

those who have not been served by this administration for it's failure at the polls. Nader voters didn't cost Gore the election, policies like NAFTA did.

Who have been dismissed so far?

Gays
Liberals
Native Americans
Anti War advocates
Single Payer advocates
Unions
Environmentalists
Potheads
Torture opponents wanting justice

Whether rightly or wrongly, their votes were based on a perception that Obama would act in their interests. Will there be a hint of the election night crowd in Chicago should Obama be reelected?

He told us to make him do the right thing, but he's not listening to us. If we can't make him do the right thing, our only choice is to take away his power to continue the wrong things.

[impik]

34. Like bringing Republicans back to power

[pundaint]

46. Not true, the active action is the dismissal of their supporters by the DLC. If you

close me out of the tent, you can't then blame me for finding a new tent. This is quite different from being included in the debate and being out voted. Many of us are being simply disenfranchised by the behavior of the DLC.

What's the ratio of those on the right included by this administration, to those on the left? What would be most appropriate for the Democratic Party?

[DeSwiss]

47. What do you mean "back"? n/t

[sabrina 1]

52. If John McCain had won the election:

1. He would have lifted the ban on Offshore Drilling.

2. He would have escalated the War in Afghanistan.

3. He would have pushed a Romney-care-type Health Insurance Reform Bailout Bill.

4. He would not have prosecuted War Criminals.

5. He would have prevented the victims of torture from filing civil suits against the U.S. government.

6. He would have supported Charter Schools and refused to get rid of the disastrous NCLB Bush education system.

7. He would not have rescinded DADT.

8. He would have bailed out Wall St. but not Main St.

9. His Cabinet would have included Goldman Sachs alumni and other Wall St. financiers.


During the campaign Obama argued against McCain's position on almost all of the above issues, mandated insurance, offshore drilling eg, so it seemed like it really mattered which one got to the WH.

If McCain had made it, there wouldn't be much difference on the major issues, but we wouldn't have 'progressives' trying to justify his Health Reform Bill, or his lifting of the ban on Offshore drilling, or the fact that gays still can't serve in the military. The anti-war movement would not be split in two out of loyalty to the Party.

Many, many people are not falling for the talking point you just used anymore, for obvious reasons. Get a new one if you don't want a Republican Majority. Try putting the blame where it belongs, like telling the truth for a change. But if you persist in attempting to use 'fear of Republicans' as a motivator to get Rinos elected, you are destined to fail.

[Jamastiene]

87. Check Mate!

I honestly do see how anyone can refute this post. It lays it out exactly as it has happened.

[INdemo]

38. NAFTA was not the cause of Gores defeat ..it was the Republicans

and the corporate power group that were determined to have a puppet in the White House and we now have witnessed the worse economic disaster short of a depression in history..So they stole the election in 2000 and Al Gore did nothing to cause his defeat except campaign in his home state and allow Bill Clinton to campaign for him...But I will not concede the fact that Al Gore won and it was taken away from him by a group of right wing corporate Supreme Court Judges..As for Obama well ..he gives a great speech and is one hell of a politician..I will never vote for a Republican but with Obama as well as Democrats in Congress ..they are all Republican lites..So I think I have voted for a Republican and didnt realize it.

[pundaint]

44. It was just one of the many aspects of the Clinton administration abandoning traditional

Democratic values in favor of perceived political expediency. Nader was offering nothing more than traditional Democratic values. I know that's why I voted for him. Republicans were even further in the wrong direction for my support.

[bobbolink]

59. Homeless people were never considered, so they couldn't be dismissed.

:(

[AnArmyVeteran]

106. I was an Obama delegate, but he has NO guts. He is NOT an advocate of the people...

It's sad to think Obama is selling out to corporations and the powerful. He could have been an American hero, but he is selling out the American people. Your list is just the beginning of a long list of the betrayed...

I wonder if it is possible to have a real leader in the US anymore? I know without a doubt in my mind I could be a better president than all presidents of the last 40 years. But I would not sell myself out to get elected. I would not become a political whore. So without money we are going to continue to get gutless leaders who only care about the powerful and fuck the American people.

[dflprincess]

33. There are a few states where the Native American population

could make the difference between winning and losing.

How many constituencies do you think the Democrats can afford to lose?

[salguine]

4. No one defending Obama yet...I see this thread getting locked real soon.

[sandnsea]

7. All but 20 in the House, majority voice vote in the Senate

Considering the passage of health care reform, it's kind of important everybody gets their cigarette tax money. That played the biggest role in the passage of this bill.

[EFerrari]

5. Is the BLM still the point of contact to Indian Country

or is it someone else now? I'm way out of date on this.

[sandnsea]

8. The BIA under Interior

is that what you mean?

http://www.bia.gov/

[Bobbieo]

9. Always, thought it was BIA.

[EFerrari]

10. You're right and I'm wrong. I was thinking Land Management

but it is Indian Affairs. Thanks, Bobbie.

[struggle4progress]

11. ... Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act .. bans .. Postal Service from delivering cigarettes ...

[Odin2005]

12. Barack Promise-Breaker?

[Bobbieo]

15. This Postal law is going to be a blow to the entire Six Nations. I

honestly don't look upon Obama as a liar or true betrayer, I just think he cannot handle all of the lobbying that is being thrown at him. It is a tragedy, too.

[Godhumor]

13. Law passed the House 387-25 and unanimously in the Senate.

More details here:

http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/31/1005262/president-obama-signs-pact-act.html

In addition to banning the mailing of cigarettes, the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking (PACT) Act requires those selling cigarettes on the Internet to:

• Pay all federal, state, local or tribal tobacco taxes and affix tax stamps before delivering any tobacco products to any customer.

• Register with the state where they are based and make periodic reports to state tax-collection officials.

• Check the age and ID of customers when they purchase tobacco and when the tobacco products are delivered.

[HughMoran]

17. I thought regulating tobacco was a good thing

:shrug:

[nannah]

20. me too n/t

[MH1]

16. I have trouble feeling sorry for their loss of jobs as death merchants

although perhaps some compensatory program should have been provided to help to transition to other jobs.

[The Straight Story]

18. I feel the same way about car companies, Airports, electric companies, etc (nt)

[mntleo2]

35. Me too, they are worse as are ...

...pretty much any industry that pollutes our communities with impunity. Just take a look over the horizon at sunset in any city and I can guarantee you, it ain't cigarette smoke. I want to see some significant improvement statistics with the ban on smoking because blaming the smoker for all cancers, asthma, and other illnesses is supposedly the "cause" of it all. I suspect there will be little or nothing to show any improvement, but hey we ALWAYS have to have a scapegoat, don't we?

Cat In Seattle

[NeonDog]

41. And just how the F*** is your computer powered???

I am guessing "etc" is indicative of some sort of death wish or some sort of fantasy Utopia...People like you deserve the RepubliCON world we keep waking up in!

[Bluenorthwest]

23. As if this nation has a basis to accuse Native People of

being death merchants. That is one small pox laced blanket you can go sell to the marines, or the cavalry.

[laughingliberal]

67. +1000 nt

[sabrina 1]

91. Ironic isn't it, in an effort to defend a politician

from hearing anything negative from his supporters, everything goes out the window, including history. The hyperbole is so thick sometimes, it should probably be added to the list of pollutants that fog up our atmosphere.

[kuroman992]

26. death merchants?

oh come on
if u dont smoke,then good for u.
but there many thatdo and deserve that right. somehow i have a hard time considering an american indian who sells his tobacco as a death merchant.
what about that indian chief who offers his peace pipe to new friends? i guess we never knew he was a death merchant. spare us the propaganda will ya

[ima_sinnic]

27. Not too sanctimonious, are you? How is that different than interfering with doctors

performing legal abortions on the grounds they are "death merchants"?

Cigarettes ARE legal, you know, and these people had developed a livelihood around that. But they shouldn't sell a legal product by mail because it's harmful, I guess--puritanical much?--and who cares about their already poverty-stricken situation?

[H2O Man]

36. Darned them!

We never should have let those death merchant Indians into our country. It's all their fault.

[sabrina 1]

56. Then you must be furious at Obama's war on the people of

Afghanistan, who really are dying. If only smoking a cigarette was all those people had to worry about. Instead, they have our drones raining down death and destruction on their civilian population.

Of course we did the same to the American Indians, so I imagine they are happy we are not killing them anymore. Smoking is not what American Indians, Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis or any of the other unfortunate people who have something we want have to worry about.

I'm sure your priorities are in order and you won't be defending the policies of this WH regarding the real and immediate death they are dispensing to people who never did anything to deserve it.

If Indians want to sell a product to people who want to buy it, it is up to them to decide whether or not it is good for them.

Prescription drugs kill tens of thousands of people every year.

Cars kill tens of thousands more people every year.

Guns kill even more.

Life is risky but in a free society people get to decide for themselves whether to drive a car, smoke a cigarette, or use prescription drugs or not. Unless we want to ban everything that might cause us harm.

[KittyWampus]

19. Maybe if the Seneca were growing their own tobacco and selling their own cigarettes I'd give a crap.

[ima_sinnic]

25. oh, so Native Americans don't have the right to be capitalists, too?

In reality, you don't give a crap about anybody's complaints about Obama's policies. They're all "haters" who want to "see him fail."

Stay classy.

[elehhhhna]

61. noble savage agrarian. got it.

[ima_sinnic]

88. zing. I guess they don't know their place.

they need to be making baskets and trading them for wampum by the side of the road.
a few rain dances for the tourists would be nice, too.
how dare they try to engage in the mainstream economy?

[Seneca]

21. I never said any such thing to the president

;-)

[Forkboy]

66. LOL

:)

[Greyhound]

22. Some may not like it but this will really hurt a lot of very poor people.

[ima_sinnic]

28. Betrayed your trust? You must be among the last group that feels that way, join the crowd!

The only group whose trust has NOT been broken are the war profiteers, oil merchants, wall street pigs, and assorted other super-rich with no conscience but plenty of payola.

[kuroman992]

42. damn straight

and the insurance companies (mandate), phrma (drug importation), hospitals (public option).
They get what they want. when the hell will we get what we want?

[Enthusiast]

74. Yeah, please don't forget

the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. The pharmaceutical industries protection measure was right in our face and quite an insult. Of course the rest were as well.

[ima_sinnic]

81. yes, I don't know how I overlooked them in my list

there are too many corruptions and sell-outs to keep track of, it seems

[Enthusiast]

84. The list grows long. nt

[earth mom]

29. Another group under the bus! Sorry, but no surprise here! nt

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Knight Hawk]

31. A thin line

Obama has a problem.He needs the "poor" peoples votes but the rich people's money.He just did not explain it to us that way when he was running for president.The "poor" people were fooled ,the rich people know how the game is played.

[KoKo]

39. I think he Admires what Reagan did for Repugs...he wants to Lead us to Promised land as a New Reagan

for Democrats and lead us to a Majority picking up Libertarians and Lefty Repugs.

I don't think the "folks who brought him into Power" care much for Democratic Party. Just a New Coalition of Libertarians (Indies) and Repug Lefties.

He sees that as his "Pramatic Legacy." But, then it's not so much HIM but the Machine that brought him in. So...it's what it is.

[Enthusiast]

75. Sorry but there ain't no 'Repug Lefties'. nt

[The Damned]

37. Seneca Falls

The guy's not God, you know!

[NeonDog]

40. Tobacco Sucks

I suggest the res start looking for some legitimate industries that can provide their people with a real future. Tobacco,bingo and gambling can only go so far.

[Tsiyu]

62. I dunno

bout that.

Budweiser (legal harmful substance like tobacco,) Lotto (legal petty gambling like Bingo,) and the Stock Market (gambling for sure) have made a lot of folks a lot of money.

In fact, white folks make stupidly hefty amounts of cash selling vices to other whites and everyone else.

I guess the "Noble Savage" can't do the same because you say so.

Who died and left you to decide which race can't play the game all the other races are playing? Why should the Seneca be told they must be "better" than all the other money grubbers and make their money "cleanly?"

Tell that to Coors, McDonald's and the producers of American Idol

"Crappy sweet beer, food you don't even need teeth to chew and lowest Common Denominator TV are roads that lead nowhere, Dudes not on the res! Find something else to do that's wholesome."

The dudes who own those companies will laugh their asses off while they call security.

[laughingliberal]

68. Tobacco and gaming are legitimate, legal industries.

Once again, I'm reminded of the Australian who said, during the Clinton impeachment, "Thank God we got the convicts and you got the puritans."

[Enthusiast]

76. I had forgotten that one.

Very good!

[Ani Yun Wiya]

82. Something for you to consider.

No tobacco, no Sir Walter Raleigh.
No Sir Walter Raleigh, no English Colonies.
No English colonies, NO america.

Look into history and perhaps you will see the importance of tobacco vis a vis the very creation of this "america".

So, if tobacco "sucks", does "america" suck ?
Because it would not be "america" without tobacco.

edited for capitalization error.

[tcaudilllg]

83. Mmm... mouth cancer.

[NeonDog]

99. Can't consider your warped version of history. Tobacco still SUCKS!

The tobacco found and cultivated in early America was nothing like the urea drenched product marketed today. Which, of course YOU can smoke to your (damaged) hearts content.


Just don't subsidize this product's marketing with my taxes or utilize the U.S. Government to help you market it.

[sabrina 1]

92. Like Offshore drilling maybe?

Or going to war for oil? Obama would probably agree with you that these are noble and 'legitimate industries' for our poor minorities to work for.

Personally I'd prefer if all those who are driven into our military to fight wars for the profiteers, would open Smoke Shops. What a peaceful world that would be.

[tranche]

43. Wait, I thought "real progressives" hated tobacco? Or do we hate Obama more?

I get so confused around here.

[The Straight Story]

45. Both sides have puritans who want to punish sinners it seems - sex, smoking, obesity, abortion, etc

There are too many people who want to tell others how to live.

I tend to be pro-choice across the board.

[laughingliberal]

69. +1000 nt

[tcaudilllg]

85. Nah, we just don't want to pay your medical bills. n/t

Would be great if everybody was claimed by a heart attack or sudden stroke. Think of the money we'd save. But big tobacco wants you to die of cancer, and so do the Seneca apparently.

[sabrina 1]

90. You no doubt will never, ever need medical care!

It started with smokers, now it's people who are overweight whose medical bills 'WE don't want to have to pay', and drug addicts, and whoever else offends our sensibilities. Muslims and 'foreigners' next?

Tell you what, when whatever it is that causes you to get sick happens, and it will unless you are immune from human frailties, I won't mind helping to pay for your medical care. Because I am a democrat and I believe everyone, even someone who is being judged by one group or another as not worthy of having their lives saved because of their 'lifestyle choices', actually does have a right to life, and I am obligated if I can, to contribute to that.

I think one of the most disgusting arguments I've seen come up as a result of our latest obsessions with which illnesses are politically incorrect rendering their practitioners unworthy of treatment, (I really think the production of Scarlet Letters would be a booming industry in today's society) is the one coming from so-called 'progressives' that basically says 'if you get sick it's your own fault and I don't want to spend my hard-earned money to help you get well'.

Another right-wing meme adapted by the New Democrats.

[DeSwiss]

48. K&R n/t

[Little Star]

49. k&r

[ncteechur]

50. THIS IS BULLSHIT. The Seneca can find something else to do. Tobacco needs to be regulated.

Some of you are just fucking so eager to jump on President Obama about stupid shit that you lose your fucking perspective.

This is a Seneca FAIL!

[Suji to Seoul]

54. Obviously, Indian soverignity means nothing to you?

To my mother, the Mohawk, it means a great deal!

[Schema Thing]

57. Doesn't mean she's right.

this is a good law.

[Suji to Seoul]

102. I guess, because it is a good law, the Governemnt can violate

EVERY treaty ever made with Native Americans, and not just 99% of them.

[Mojorabbit]

55. Tobacco does not have to be regulated

any more than it is already. An adult can make up their mind in my opinion and I say that as an exsmoker who smoked for 39 yrs. I feel the same way about pot. Get out of people's lives. Educate, then let people make up their own minds.
G-d knows there are enough people out there who think they know how everyone should live as it is.

[The Straight Story]

58. Indeed - seems there is no shortage of fundies trying to tell others how to live (nt)

[NeonDog]

60. nor is there a shortage a tobacco marketers willing to spend millions educating us with their lies.

[laughingliberal]

80. Uh, this isn't 1960.

I think most people are aware of the dangers of smoking.

[NeonDog]

97. 1994: Congressional testimony, executives from big tobacco deny that nicotine is addictive.

Yep it ain't 1960...but people are still gulible in 2010.

[laughingliberal]

100. I'd be damned surpised if anyone believed that in 1994

Nevertheless, it has absolutely no bearing on whether the post office is allowed to mail a legal product from a legitimate company to a private citizen who is within his/her right to purchase said product. The Police States of America are starting to annoy me.

And, btw, this law does nothing to hurt 'big tobacco.' In fact, it helps them by knocking some of their competition out of the market.

[laughingliberal]

70. Tobacco is regulated and has been for quite a while.

I've ordered cigarettes from Seneca before and was required to provide proof of age. I'm not sure what the point of banning mailing was except to restrict a little more personal freedom. But we're getting used to that here in the Authoritarian States of America, now.

[Enthusiast]

77. How about we allow

the natives to win just one for a change?

[sabrina 1]

93. So you're another 'progressive' supporter of violating

treaties made with Native Americans in order to satisfy the 'white man's' disgust for their traditions?

One thing the election of a Democratic majority has revealed sadly, is how many democrats are as intolerant and phony in their pretense to care about minorities, as many on the right. I used to argue furiously with right-wingers who made those claims, but over the past year, I have seen it with my own eyes and simply remain silent now when right-wingers accuse me of being blind to it.

[phleshdef]

51. Maybe they should use their tribe to contribute something to society besides lung cancer and COPD.

And yea, as a former smoker, I'm allowed to say that. I'm not all overzealous like some are. I think tobacco products should remain legal and regulated. But pardon me if I'm not overly sympathetic to producers of tobacco products whenever they have to follow higher standards to sell their product.

[sabrina 1]

63. In their wildest dreams no matter how many cigarettes they sell

to grown up adults who ARE capable of deciding for themselves what they want to do with their bodies, they could never rain down the kind of death OUR tribe rained on them and are now raining on the people of other nations.

I am sure the irony of THIS government pretending to care about its citzens, considering its current engagement in what can only be called genocide, not to mention its history of genocide against Native Americans, some of whom were completely wiped out, a history we don't talk much about as we moralize over what is good for citizens and what is not, has not been missed by the Native American population.

Do us a favor, don't smoke if you don't want to, but stop telling everyone else what to do. No wonder the right views Liberals as promoters of a 'nanny state'. At times like this I can see their point.

[phleshdef]

64. Woah. I'd never once ignore the crimes committed against native Americans.

But I don't consider increased restrictions or taxes on tobacco sales an oppressive way to manage something that ultimately costs our society a lot of trouble and money healthwise.

I smoked for 8 years so I'm not telling anyone what to do. Even when I was still smoking, I never opposed taxes and restrictions. If something as bad for us as tobacco is, is going to continue to be legal, then it makes sense to take measures to lighten the burdens caused to society.

[sabrina 1]

65. Do you realize what this will do to the livelihoods

of Native Americans who have lived in poverty, thanks to the treatment they've received from this government even after the killing stopped?

NYS, where this is happening, has a treaty with Native Americans which agrees that within its borders, Indians will not be subject to taxes on the products they sell. For decades, politicians, working for their donors, many of them business people who also sell cigarettes, have tried to break that treaty. I lived near an Indian Reservation on the east end of LI and every time a new government was elected, they tried to tax the customers of Native Americans who bought cigarettes from them. This would destroy their business. Nearly everyone I know supports the upholding of treaties made with Native Americans. Everyone except politicians.

I doubt they will win this time either. This is about far more than smoking, although it is used every time as an excuse to break one more treaty with the Indians. I have signed and will continue to do so, every petition to stop this, not because of smoking, but because a promise was made and it should be kept.

As for the issue of smoking, do as you please with your own body. Other people choose to smoke. We are losing rights every day in this country, and people get sucked in to supporting the loss of them every time by the use of fear tactics.

People die of many things, drugs, alcohol, smoking, car accidents, heart attacks, cancer, pneumonia, over-eating, under-eating, etc. etc. and all of these illnesses create problems, but they are a fact of life.

Everyone is going to die. We could blame every single human being who has ever died for their own deaths if we spent enough time and effort figuring out what they did wrong.

I prefer protecting people's rights to bullying them into 'complying' with political correctness with an ulterior motive any day, and I fully support the American Indian people's right to demand that all treaties made not be broken by our government. There are worse things than dying, and living in an oppressive country is one of them.

Leave the Indian people alone, along with their customers and stop falling for every fear tactic that steals away another right. We have lost enough already.

[laughingliberal]

73. +1000 nt

[Enthusiast]

78. Another nice post from, Sabrina. nt

[phleshdef]

89. Tobacco is NOT the only fucking way to earn a livelihood.

[sabrina 1]

94. Neither is being a soldier especially when your country

is engaged in illegal, brutal occupations of other people's countries.

Nor is being a coal-miner, helping to destroy the enviroment.

Nor is working on an oil-rig, digging for oil off the coast of the U.S. causing damage to our environment.

And being a politician is not the only way to earn a living either, although it is pretty lucrative.

However, many people find themselves doing all these jobs mainly because they have to make a living.

In fact, now that you made me think about it, I think there are very occupations that are actually praise-worthy if we are to get all judge-mental about what careers people choose or end up in due to the need to make a living.

Are you living in Upstate NY? Are you a Native American? What expertise on the subject of what kind of jobs Native Americans in poverty stricken areas, {which most are confined to btw,} do you have that gives you the right to be so judge-mental about what might be an appropriate way for Native Americans to make a living?

I kind of trust THEM to know what's good for them if you don't mind, NOT being like you, an expert on the subject of Native Americans' choices of how they can make a living.

It's entirely possible also, that Native Americans don't share the 'white man's' fear of smoking. But we in the U.S. have never let other people's cultures stop us from imposing our own on them, have we? Or trying to.

[phleshdef]

103. Nice Republican-esque anti-regulation argument.

And actually my biological mother is 100% native American which would technically make me half native American...but I don't really consider myself native American because I wasn't raised anywhere near Native American culture and I don't really look Native American (I took after my pasty ass father). Thats really neither here nor there. My point is, we shouldn't blow off common sense regulations just because it may effect people's ability to work in the industry being regulated. Some changes have short term pain. I believe we should ban offshore drilling. There are plenty of people that would have to find new jobs if we did ban it, but that shouldn't stand in the way of banning it. I believe we should decrease the size of the military and that would also result in people losing jobs. Are you now going to apply the same exact argument you are making here to oil and the military? Are you going to argue against regulating offshore drilling and argue for continued expansion of the military? You better, otherwise, you are guilty of some serious hypocritical double standards.

The laws in question have ZERO to do with trusting native Americans to know what is best for them so I'm not sure why you are bringing that up. This isn't a law targeted at telling native Americans how to live. Its a law re-regulating the entire tobacco industry which is unfortunately causing ripples among Native American tribes that have embraced that industry as a means to make money.

I'm not sure if you realize it, but you are actually making the same Republican-esque argument against regulation that anti-regulation conservatives make all the time.

[sabrina 1]

107. It's a law violating yet another treaty made with

American Indians. I don't care what Republicans think or don't think. I think for myself.

This law is not to protect anyone. It is to force more money into the hands of the government through taxes they agreed NOT to levy on those tribes.

And it is meant to remove the competition from Indian Smoke Shops to local merchants who also sell cigarettes.

Local merchants have been lobbying for this kind of law for decades. So it isn't about 'smoking' it's about as always, someone's profit margin. The same people you are supporting will continue to sell cigarettes only with less competition from the tribes.

Since it won't stop smoking, and the only result will be the destruction of Indian run businesses, why would you be supporting it?

[laughingliberal]

71. There really is no rationale for banning the post office from mailing cigarettes

The provisions for obtaining proof of age and collecting the state taxes were already there. It just looks like a fuck you to the tribes and a gift to the big tobacco companies.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

86. Contribute something to society ?

I would think the "contribution" of their lands to the europeans more than sufficient.

edited for spelling error, (Must not be typing so well tonight)

[sabrina 1]

95. Thank you, no doubt the commenter is currently occupying

land that was taken by force or deception from these Americans who are not contributing to society! :eyes:

I think even the U.S. government understands the debt we owe them for taking their lands and way of life away from them. There are treaties to try to make up for some of what we did to them, one of them being the sale of their goods without taxes, in some states, including tobacco. Now this commenter wants to break that treaty also, because of some personal opinion about a choice people make regarding their own lives.

Thanks for pointing out what should be obvious, but in the defense of 'The Party', many seem to become blind.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

96. You are welcome.

Criminalizing tobacco, a sacrament given by the Creator for our use, is itself a crime.

[sabrina 1]

98. Yes, Marijuana also ~

[laughingliberal]

101. Just as this bill is something of a gift to big tobacco...

...keeping marijuana illegal is a gift to several corporate interests.

[NeonDog]

53. Sounds like a job for Jack Abramoff.

Maybe some of you could start a tobacco lobby fund for the Seneca tribe that would suppport candidates from the party that agrees with of the tobacco industry.

[laughingliberal]

72. Sounds like big tobacco already made bank with this law

After all, it isn't Phillip Morris or RJ Reynolds who will suffer from this.

Hey...maybe that was the point....

[Forkboy]

79. Some fascinating, if ugly, responses in this thread.

It's amazing the issues that give you insight into your fellow DUers sometimes.

[H2O Man]

104. True, that.

Indian sovereignty is wonderful, so long as the US government can make all important decisions for them. And that there US Constitution is wonderful, too, except when it creates an incovenience.

[dflprincess]

105. This is as much a response to the Seneca having the "nerve" to criticize Obama as it is to sovereign...

If the only difference in this post was "Seneca to BUSH ‘You betrayed our trust’" people would jumping up and down and cheering them on.