Does anyone ever consider that things may not be what they appear to be?

[ProSense]

The question is: what is the goal of this statement:

NEW YORK (AFP) – US actors and liberal intellectuals joined a list to be published Friday of nearly 2,000 people accusing President Barack Obama of allowing human rights violations and war crimes.

"Crimes are crimes, no matter who does them," the statement reads over pictures of Obama and his predecessor George W. Bush due to appear in the New York Review of Books.

<...>

"In some respects this is worse than Bush," the statement says. "First, because Obama has claimed the right to assassinate American citizens whom he suspects of 'terrorism,' merely on the grounds of his own suspicion or that of the CIA, something Bush never claimed publicly."

<...>

They also lambast Obama for having refused "to prosecute any members of the Bush regime who are responsible for war crimes, including some who admitted to waterboarding and other forms of torture, thereby making their actions acceptable for him."

When Obama took office last year, the Democratic Party basically walked back any notion that Bush would be held accountable. There would be no war crimes trial.

During the Bush years Democrats (everyone from Conyers in the House to Whitehouse in the Senate) fed us a steady diet of specific details about the power grabs and illegal actions of the Bush administration.

It's no secret that President Obama rolled back many, not all, of Bush's policies. Still, almost every claim that Obama is continuing Bush's policies comes through media reports of DOJ actions. These reports offer no glimpse into what is behind the decision.

Where is Congress? Democrats haven't said much. In fact, it doesn't appear that anyone is asking Democrats to say much. Where are they on the accusations that Obama is continuing Bush's policies? Where are they on the accusation that President Obama is "allowing human rights violations and war crimes"?

Not even Republicans are pouncing on this.

In fact, elected Democrats seem to believe the President is doing a great job.

I suppose the statement at the link above is to spark public outrage, but the public hasn't heard a constant drumbeat of charges against the Obama adminstration. Congress is not out there warning the President that his actions are unethical and illegal. Congress isn't pressing for Bush to be charged with war crimes.





edited typo.

[msongs]

1. ya don't prosecute your predecessors for things you may end up doing yourself nt

[amborin]

6. +1000

[ProSense]

8. So what's the point of the ad? n/t

[Luminous Animal]

2. Which policies did Obama roll back? And yes, I expect an answer.

[JDPriestly]

3. Obama and Congress could probably get by with this double standard

if they were Republicans. But, like most Democrats, I take morality very seriously. And continuing Bush's wiretapping, surveillance, torture, rendition and other violations of human rights is immoral. Obama needs to prove that he is serious about his claims of morality on these issues.

There was talk of at least a Truth Commission, but that seems to have been forgotten.

If Obama thinks he is going to win by doing the same things the Republicans did and never calling them to task for their violations of the Constitution and our laws, then he should watch the movie I watched tonight, Boogie Man about Lee Atwater's career.

Everything that Obama is doing just because Bush did it will come right back on Obama. Obama has to stand up, be a man and do what is right regardless of the cost.

[ProSense]

5. This doesn't address any of the questions in the OP. n/t

[JDPriestly]

16. I am agreeing that things are not as they seem.

Obama and the Democrats in Congress feigned outrage at what Bush was doing. But now that Obama and the Democrats have the power and the responsibility, they are continuing the Bush practices. No, things are not what they seem. We just have different names and faces but the same dirty deeds.

Republicans will vote Republican no matter what. That is not true of Democrats. LBJ learned that the hard way, the really hard way.

Obama and the Democrats in Congress are not going to see massive demonstrations in the streets. They are just going to find that the rank and file in the Party are indifferent to their requests that we give donations and campaign.

[ProSense]

24. I really don't see that

being the result of the accusations in the OP, if it even happens at all.

[The Damned]

4. Ever get into your HAND, man?

:hippie:

[flyarm]

7. yep..but I am sure it is not what it is being portrayed , as well!!

and I damn well know we are being lied to ..and it is killing our Gulf ..and will soon be killing the Atlantic Ocean as well!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37141752/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times

And i see emails floating the Idea of "SOFTENING MIRANDA RIGHTS" ...

And i know damn well illegal wire tapping was given immunity ..UNDER OBAMA

AND I KNOW RENDITIONS CONTINUE

And I know this white house has taken Executive powers..that go against our constitution and bill of rights..

and I know one war has not stopped and another accelerated.

And i know Obama promised those of us in Fla that he would stop drilling to only see him shit on us and sign off on drilling millions of miles more of drilling on our coastlines.

In Fact * Since * the worst oil leak in history..this administration has signed 27 more leases for off shore drilling..3 more to the perpetrators of this crime of an oil Spill ..BP..

so to answer your question:

Does anyone ever consider that things may not be what they appear to be?

My answer would be no.because I pay and paid attention..I know what is going on ..and if I could, everyone else could as well!

[ProSense]

10. "I damn well know we are being lied to "

That's not going to trigger a war crimes trial.

[Luminous Animal]

23. Except for the fact that people went on teevee and admitted to war crimes.

Oh well, move on. At least we all now transparently know it. Time to mow the lawn!

[Go2Peace]

15. I thought that Obama had called a moratorium on deep drilling?

Just asking, because that is what I read? But I agree with you in general that we have to make a serious break from the old ways of doing things. And we can't get there unless we are consistant in our values.

I am surprised people here would even call for folks to not be consistant with their opinions because of partisan advantage. I can't count the number of times that people proclaimed that Republicans would justify anything as long as it involved their candidate.

We do the same thing. Funny how standing on principle is seen as such an unusual and is basically revolutionary act in these times. And it is telling that "liberals" are now the ones fighting trasparent democracy and thought.

[ProSense]

39. He has. n/t

[Luminous Animal]

9. Thank you for highlighting the Obama admin's support for war crimes.

I "heart" you Prosense.

[ProSense]

11. Glad you're able to find some comfort in this post. n/t

[Luminous Animal]

14. I was looking for comfort but comform might work.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[Luminous Animal]

30. Nice edit. You originally wrote comform then changed it to comfort.

Cool!

[Luminous Animal]

12. So help me here? Obama good. Democrats bad? I expect an answer.

It's the Democrats in Congress that are stopping Obama from being good?

[ProSense]

13. Why are you panicking? n/t

[Luminous Animal]

17. Because I am frantically looking for the definition of "comform."

[Jamastiene]

27. ...

:rofl:

[Go2Peace]

18. So how will the democrats change if he doesn't call them out and lead them?

Obama is the head of the party. He has a lot more power than you give him credit for.

[ProSense]

19. "Obama is the head of the party. He has a lot more power than you give him credit for."

The President is a powerful position, but that really doesn't address the point.

[Luminous Animal]

25. What is the point again? If it weren't for those pesky Democrats , Obama could be good?

He would lead us like lambs to slaughter... er, strike that... to water?

[Luminous Animal]

20. K & R because you've done the opposite of what you set out to do.

[ProSense]

21. Which was? n/t

[Luminous Animal]

22. Guess.

[ClassWarrior]

28. Ditto.

NGU.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[Vinnie From Indy]

31. Glenn Greenwald thinks your wrong!

I just through that in because I know how much you like him! :)

You write,
"Still, almost every claim that Obama is continuing Bush's policies comes through media reports of DOJ actions. These reports offer no glimpse into what is behind the decision."


Would it really matter to you in the least what the reason was behind the President's actions if it were you or a loved one being subjected to "enhanced" interrogation techniques or being snatched from your home in the middle of the night and tossed into prison for what could be forever?

Do you think the next Afghani that finds his family blown to bits by a hellfire missile fired from a drone aircraft really gives a shit about why the President of the US ok'd such actions?

IN addition, not ALL reports about OBama's continuation of GW Bush policies is coming form the media. You simply made that up. The fact is that you know, because it has been pointed out you in other posts, that the Obama Admin. has MADE PUBLIC STATEMENTS in regard to continuing some policies and public statements that EXPAND the policies of GW Bush.

Simply because this Dem Congress seems incapable of holding Bush to account and incapable of rolling back the assaults on the Constitution does not make these things less illegal nor does it translate into acceptance for thoughtful people.

[ProSense]

33. That's OK,

I often think Greenwald's arguments are laced with distortions.

[gleaner]

32. Congress is as bad as Obama for the most part ...

Most of the time things are exactly as they seem, and this is one of them. Don't you find it is getting to be a full time job making lame excuses for Obama as he wends us down the road to disaster?

[Name removed]

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[Rex]

35. I would say I told ya so, but no one cares so I won't.

Corporations own the POTUS and Congress, we just elect whatever they throw at us because we have no other choices.

[Raineyb]

37. But the poster is complaining about people making their displeasure known.

I don't think he or she cares one whit if the government bows to the corporations so long as the government is run by people with the letter D after their name. I could be wrong of course but the body of evidence would not suggest that that is the case.

[Rex]

38. So what you are saying is he is making his displeasure known

about other people making their displeasure known? Surllllly you jest.

[Name removed]

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