Latest Arizona Law

[Bobbieo]

Yuma Daily Sun
Saturday, May 15th, 2010
Gov. Jan Brewer has signed legislation spelling out that nothing requires businesses to provide “trained and competent” interpreters when a customer comes in speaking a language other than English.

So much for foreign tourism!!!! These “furners” really didn’t want to see the Grand Canyon, anyway.

[Travis_0004]

1. Isn't that how it is now?

Businesses have incentive to help customers who don't speak English, but I don't think anywhere requires them to provide that service.

[Bobbieo]

2. This law was passed to stop discrimination complaints. Good or bad - time will tell.

[Xipe Totec]

62. Take your time. Think it through... nt

[D-Lee]

56. certain health entities ARE required to provide interpreters

Would have to take a look at the legislation to see if it runs afoul of other applicable provisions.

[damntexdem]

3. AZ needs a law requiring trained and competent ...

legislators and governors.

[EFerrari]

4. No matter if Brewer signs her rear end and posts it to the internets

racial discrimination is still illegal in the United States.

For now.

[Bobbieo]

5. I agree that this is a discrimination law aimed at Hipanics But, I honestly

believe anyone who wants to live in the US should make an attempt to learn to speak English for their own safety. I speak enough Spanish and French to get by in either Mexico or Quebec.

In defense of the dentist who was the target of the discrimination complaint, Sen. John Huppental (R) Chandler had this to say "Nobody should be treated like this, He was 'drug' through the mud by us"

Tsk, Tsk Senator!!!!

[EFerrari]

6. I've lived around immigrants my entire life and never met anyone

who refused to learn English just to piss people off.

[mmonk]

7. +1

[Bobbieo]

15. A very dear friend of mine from Mexico learned to speak English by watching American

"novelas" - soap operas.

[EFerrari]

24. That's cool. I try to keep my Spanish up with teevee

and what I hear is mondegreens for about the first fifteen minutes until my ear adjusts to the speed. lol

[WolverineDG]

19. I've spoken Spanish just to watch heads explode

Many in the US (& many on DU) feel that Spanish is an inferior language. And if anyone doesn't believe this attitude exists on DU, just do a quick search on teaching Spanish in particular or foreign languages in general & take note of all the "I don't mind my kid learning a foreign language, but not Spanish" posts.

dg

[Cleita]

59. Well, when I lived in SA, I ran into Americans who refused to learn

Spanish even though they were working there, however, I never met a person here in the States that didn't want to learn English. As a matter of fact if you speak their language they beg you to teach them English.

[EFerrari]

67. I've known people who don't want to speak English in public

because they are ashamed of their accent. That's the opposite of being so unconcerned that you refuse to learn English. My grandmother was like that. She could read and hear and understand perfectly but never spoke English out in public. One of us always translated for her. Her accent wasn't ugly at all, actually. It was musical but she always hated it.

[Cleita]

73. I've known people like that. They also think that Americans will make

fun of their accents. I knew a girl from Ecuador who was a trained surgical nurse, but she was working in a sweat shop in LA because she wouldn't speak English even though she knew it. She could have gotten a job in a hospital if she hadn't been so shy about her accent.

[tinymontgomery]

63. My Grandparents come over

My Grandparents came over from Italy in the 20's so my mom was first generation American. My grandparents made sure my parents spoke english, but her and her eleven brothers and sisters also spoke Italian. They shifted into Italian when they didn't want the kids to know what they were saying. My grandparents didn't give up their heritage or identity. Our family our best to learn english as did (I wish I had learned Italian), and I don't see anything wrong with them ensuring I learned english to the best of my ability. So my brothers and sister are only 2nd generation Italians. (lots of the my first generation served in WWII on our side). I love Italy and can't wait to go back.

[aikoaiko]

8. Is anyone claiming that business should be required to provide interpreters?

No business should have to provide interpretation for a customer. There are a lot of languages out there.

[EFerrari]

9. But if you enter a good faith contract with someone

you better be sure they understand what they are reading. There are a lot of lawyers out there, too.

[aikoaiko]

12. Perhaps, but it seems unreasonble to expect businesses to provide interpreters

On the other hand, you are correct that a contract does require understanding. And since we have laws that deal with contracts it would seem to be unnecessary to require businesses to provide interpreters for this reason.

[EFerrari]

35. In AZ, Spanish is by treaty co-equal with English but when

did we ever honor any treaty. :)

[aikoaiko]

40. I didn't know that. That changes things the issue considerably.

Do you know what treaty specified that?

[EFerrari]

41. It's the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

But, it might as well be written on the wind.

[aikoaiko]

42. thank you. I learned something new.

[Obamanaut]

10. Why would businesses require such a thing anyway? There were

many places I went during my military career where the businesses didn't speak English. And yet, I managed to get around by carrying maps and doing a lot of pointing and gesturing. And, I learned some Spanish, Italian, and Japanese - not enough to hold a conversation, but enough to order food in restaurants and find out how to get to different places.

[mmonk]

11. The Navaho nation runs through Arizona.

I propose the Navaho language should be the required language of all inhabitants of Arizona. No one should be required to produce trained and competent personnel in English.

[political_Dem]

13. Just all in a day's work for Frau Brewer.

As I read about more of these laws being passed in Arizona, the sadder I get. :(

But then again, it's only been 46 years since the Civil Rights Act has been passed. The stuff that is happening in Arizona now really reveals a lot in context of nearly five decades of U.S. history in regards to race.

[WolverineDG]

14. Meanwhile, in Europe

ATMs offer services in multiple languages & no one bitches about it.

dg

[EFerrari]

29. In San Francisco many are in English, Spanish, Tagalog

and Chinese. So far, it hasn't killed anyone. lol

[Motown_Johnny]

16. so you would require businesses to have interpreters for every language on earth?

how about Klingon too?

[WolverineDG]

17. From a business perspective, if you get a lot of business from Mexico

wouldn't it behoove you to have employees who spoke Spanish? Or do you, like a lot of people, think that Spanish is an inferior language that only sub-humans speak?

dg

[bridgit]

20. I my town that would include Vietnamese, Tagalog, Chinese, Russian, Korean, etc...

[WolverineDG]

22. And I'll bet businesses that cater to those groups

have someone who can speak those languages.

dg

[bridgit]

36. In Sac its referred to as Little Saigon, and they tend to shop at buisnesses...

operated by other Vietnamese, and funded by either Asian or Vietnamese money and we're good with that http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/22209/Sacramento_Celebrates_Little_Saigon_at_Tet_Festival And of course, specific to the OP; some dentists not all but some do other diverse languages - but its more to the point that privately owned businesses aren't required to. Its almost as though you're implying that you have to speak Japanese to own a Toyota

A dentist in a private practice, unless contracted by a county entity, etc, is not so required. The county, state and fed agencies are and they are doing so. But its not like we're ordering burgers at the UN, and there'll be growing excursionary incidences of suits such as into privately owned businesses (which will end up cutting both ways) as a way of political protest. And that is too unproductive to entertain for very long

I think a question to consider - rather than trying to fit a square peg into a round hole - is if: you own a Burger King franchise in the states that is as a corporate model setup as catering to all *in* the states (the core element of a menu filled with pictures to point to, or the international symbol for restroom)...why would you hire staff that speaks no English whatsoever in a country where the vast bulk of commerce is conducted in English? Even *by* Mexicans

Today, in Walnut Creek, at a Barnes & Noble; my husband held the door open for Cambodian man & his young son. The man thanked my husband in English. My husband nodded holding his head lower as with a bow. Everyone smiled, including the little Cambodian boy. And for me, if for little other reason but that one: the union was a bit more perfect

[Bobbieo]

23. I'm surprised this dentist in Yuma did not have a Spanish speaking assistant.

Most people around here do go to Mexico for a dentist but most busineses have someone on the presimses who speaks Spanish. There are alot of Mexican nationals who do business in Yuma and I see them all of the time at shopping centers.

[EFerrari]

26. Pima County gets more than a quarter of its income from Mexican shoppers, iirc. n/t

[Bobbieo]

34. I know Tucson, EF lived there for 20 years, am a U oA alum.

and I sure miss the place There were only 39,000 people in Tucson when I moved there in 1944. My late husband worked for both bewspapers Star and Citizen, there.

[EFerrari]

43. Wow. So, you really do know Tucson.

:)

[Motown_Johnny]

66. yes, but why should there be a law requiring it? and why do spanish speaking people

get special treatment?

[WolverineDG]

70. Ever hear of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo?

Puts Spanish & English on equal footing in the territory ceded by Mexico to the US. Got a problem with that "special treatment?" Tough. It's the law.

And why is it that you only hear Americans whining about "special treatment" for Spanish speakers, when in other countries, most people are multi-lingual & no one complains about it?

dg

[EFerrari]

33. According to the treaty that ended the War and gave AZ to the US,

Spanish speakers were not to suffer any discrimination. Yeah, right! LOL

[bridgit]

47. The treaty also mentions provisions including protection of property and civil rights...

of Mexican nationals living within the new boundaries of the United States, the promise of the United States to police its boundaries, and compulsory arbitration of future disputes between the two countries - which others view as: assured political and religious liberty and the security of property to Mexicans who remained in the transferred territories. That, for some, may just be the law with its little widgety words that mean less until someone puts them to task. But I do not think that either way "living within new boundaries" or "remained in the transferred territories" infers a right to further cross, flow & subvert with intent, in the present, or establish a de facto Mexican state within the US, let's call it, oh, I dunno: Centro Aztlan - because of a continued displeasure with a war fought and lost long, long ago

Like the confederates down south are still pissy using their 'southern strategy' every chance they get x(

[WolverineDG]

51. that's why title to land in Texas is all screwed up

to the point where no one has absolutely clear title to their property.

dg

[Fla_Democrat]

39. Calling Sheldon Cooper

:evilgrin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Cooper

[bridgit]

18. Well, businesses aren't - its a running joke for Americans to go to Paris...

and stumble their way half way through a Parisian menu without a hailstorm of French snide & scorn

[Hansel]

37. Arizona, USA's France.

How pissed off would that make these little right wing extremists. They can go back to eating French fries now.

[Confusious]

21. Here's the link

Seems someone got sued for not providing an interpreter.

http://www.yumasun.com/news/interpreters-60963-phoenix-required.html

Nice way to hide the facts.

[fishwax]

25. it's kind of hard to trust that story's treatment of the facts

Granted, based on the information in that article it is appropriate that the discrimination suit was dismissed. But the article also talks about an "optometrist" who had "to spend time and money defending himself and his dental practice."

[KonaKane]

27. AZ is in full attack mode against Hispanics.

I knew they were bad but I have never seen anything like this before. It seems surreal.

[Arkana]

28. Man, they're just going balls-out to make Arizona

the most xenophobic, hostile shithole in the country.

[lynne]

30. A spin on the "English Official Language" law -

- have to wonder if its businesses only or if it also includes city, counties and state. Providing translators in numerous languages is very expensive and these are hard times.

[boppers]

31. Two words: Sign language.

Three more words: Disability Act lawsuit.

[lynne]

32. I've worked with deaf persons before -

- and they have never requested a translator. It's my experience that the deaf community will either read your lips or they will communicate by computer or written word. Deafness does not prevent them from being able to communicate in English.

[boppers]

38. I used to date a translator.

She worked at the Arizona School for the Deaf and Blind in Tucson. Some of her clients used ASL, but they were functionally illiterate in both written and spoken English (some were fluent in Spanish, others were mono-lingual), so that's who I specifically had in mind.

[lynne]

53. This law appears to be about private sector businesses -

- and it would be impossible for every accountant, insurance agency, car repair shop, retail store, etc. to have access to someone knowing ASL just in the event that a deaf person comes into their business that day. When a deaf person is in need of a translator for such services, they bring their own with them. It appears this law makes it clear that anyone not speaking English do the same and not expect a private business to provide a translator.

[gmoney]

44. It's not forbidding anyone from having interpreters

It's just making it explicit that businesses are not REQUIRED to provide them. I'm sure that many businesses will choose to do so, at least in some capacity.

Probably also releases them from liability if someone signs a contract written in English, then comes back to say they didn't understand it, and that it was the business's responsibility to provide a translator.

No. Big. Deal.

[Skip Intro]

45. Exactly. nt

[EFerrari]

46. Brewer might want to protect business owners from liability in that way

but I don't think she can do that. That's discrimination against non-English speakers and who knows what else. A civil rights attorney would.

And it is a big deal as a part of the racist attack on Latinos in Arizona at the moment.

[gmoney]

48. so every business needs a team of translators for all languages?

Not just someone who can speak it, but who can translate in a way that is legally accurate?

I believe technically, a business owner can't explain verbally the contents of a contract because of the risk of misinterpretation. It's the customer's responsibility to find a way of understanding it, even if it's in English (legalese) and the customer speaks English. If the business provides a translator, he runs the risk of the translation being inaccurate, incomplete or misunderstood, and the contract being nullified.

[EFerrari]

49. Why would you need to get an interpreter for all languages

when you're in a state where 30% of the population is Latino? That doesn't even make sense. :)

ETA: This is obviously just more of the same from the racist AZ statehouse.


/typo

[gmoney]

50. Because if you don't then it's also "racist" or whatever

If you make accommodation for Spanish, then the French speakers, or the Hindi speakers, or Portuguese, or Mandarin, or Arabic, or Urdu, or Navajo, or Esperanto, or yes even Klingon, will be able to demand the same accommodation.

"Oh, but 30% is Latino, that's substantial. The others aren't." -- that's discrimination, just what you think you're arguing against. But actually, you're arguing for it.

Let's not turn the SW United States into some sort of Spanish/English Quebec... the dual language requirement there seems like a huge pain in the "derriere" to me. (As informed by a Canadian friend of mine.)

[EFerrari]

52. Well, let's see. Expecting to accomodate Spanish speakers

in the Southwest is not racist, it's common sense for businesses.

And don't look now, but there's a lot of them there, no matter what the skinheads wish. They will be there long after this latest attack of bigotry has been booted out of office.

[bridgit]

55. Some people never step outside their comfort zone, where speaking Spanish isn't even...

what's really meant here - but the ability to speak fluent Chavez

[lynne]

54. I have experienced this and there are additional complications for businesses -

- such as when the translator leaves the business. We had a Spanish speaking person in our office for several years. We noticed that the huge majority of our Spanish speaking clients could also speak English when she was not available and they were forced to do so. There was a huge amount of wasted time and money with Spanish speakers coming in to "chat" with her as they enjoyed speaking in their native tongue. That was difficult to control without appearing rude to the client. The other problem was with written correspondence as any done in Spanish could not be read by the rest of our office. We had to require that correspondence had the text included in English so that all of us could determine what was going on should our translator not be in the office when the client called/came in. That meant that all work had to be done twice for anyone requesting that their correspondence be in Spanish.

When the translator left our firm we decided not to replace her due to the economy. When I advised one client that she was no longer with our firm, the client found enough English to cuss me up one side and down the other and then tell me that I needed to learn Spanish. I was astounded! Thankfully, the word "no" is the same in both languages.

When there is a large population of other than English speakers in a community, they soon open their own businesses. We found it more cost effective for them to do business elsewhere than to hire a translator and deal with the complications and their expense.

[gmoney]

57. Makes sense

Thanks for sharing that anecdote. I think that's really the root of some of these "English is sufficient" efforts...that it's just too damned expensive and risky to try to accommodate every language.

[EFerrari]

71. So, your vote is for segregation?

Good to know.

LOL

[bridgit]

72. Yes, and I have one for you: used to work at a Gov research facility...

Knew a women, an exile from Chile very sort of Isabel/House of The Spirits, girl - spoke flawless Spanish having been born, raised and basically escaped from there, diplomat dad, long time well connected family & folks, etc - that had to first be 'certified' as a bi-lingual Spanish speaker so as to canvas that demographic in a scientifically consistent way able to support the sample absent all other bias or so it was thought, well...

Another friend of mine - a Mexican woman *from* Mexico, nice woman very hard stiff spine always nice to me but seldom less than somehow condescending; thorough predominately fair & just - in charge of 'the spanish speakers' discharged my Chilean friend because she felt Chile spoke some element less than 'high spanish' and so unable to represent *the Spanish speaking world*, hm, very well...

So I do I see that these "set all the nut brown handed spanish speakers of the world free & unite!" pseudo-revolutionaries don't seem to understand the levels of caste system they are actually arguing in favor of

So that with, "the client found enough English to cuss me up one side and down the other and then tell me that I needed to learn Spanish" you've put your fingertip onto the very nature of the dichotomous argument itself filled with prejudices - all-be-them Spanish speaking prejudices

[Cleita]

58. Last time I was at the Grand Canyon, I heard a lot of German and

Japanese. But I don't think those are the interpreters that Gov. Brewer had in mind. However, most businesses find it's good business to be able to communicate with potential customers and will hire people who are bi-lingual. That woman is getting crazier and crazier. I hope AZ can get rid of her before she does too much damage.

[Swamp Rat]

60. ¡Bésamelo! Then I refuse to speak English in Arizona.

[Xipe Totec]

61. I need help. How do you say: Que Pendeja! in English?

Oktnx.

[AuntPatsy]

64. What an asshole...

[Xipe Totec]

65. Gracias! nt

[AuntPatsy]

68. Que' Nada

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Ya vol... by the way piece of trivia Guvernor

what language ALMOST became the official one? If you said English, go back to school, just NOT in Arizona.