Andrew Young's "The Politician" paints Edwards as even worse than I had expected.

[CTyankee]

I'm reading it now and even I'm a little shocked at how outright blatantly cynical Edwards was toward his presidential candidacy in 2007 and 2008.

Yes, I know Young is trying to cover his ass in writing this book, but he does admit his mistakes every step of the way towards his total corruption by the Edwardses. Even I did a double take when he talks about Rielle Hunter's phone calls to him complaining about "the condition of her vagina."

My spouse considers me nuts for reading this book and maybe I am. Or my "not so inner" political junkie has taken over, but I can't stop reading this thing. It is chilling. It's what can happen, easily and insidiously.

I have to admit I fell for the Edwardses' family narrative about her cancer and his devotion and I did like some of his good policy points, but this is truly disgusting. I have never been so wrong about a politician before.

I can tell you here and now, I won't be again...

[tonysam]

1. I wouldn't believe a word that asshole says. n/t

[Oregone]

74. Yeah...since uh, nothing in his story checks out?

At first I thought he was a lying opportunist.



Now I just think he is an embellishing opportunist who has a great story.

[undeterred]

2. He (JE) always seemed slick to me.

And I don't trust slick. I also don't like it when politicians use their families too much in creating an image. Single, divorced, gay or straight childless people are no less competent than married hetero people with children at holding public office.

I couldn't believe how quickly people jumped to his defense over the $400 haircut. For someone running for president that may be no big deal, but for someone running on a "poverty/two Americas" platform its absurd. That's where he lost me.

And no decent woman talks about her vagina to anyone she's not sleeping with unless its her doctor.

[marions ghost]

7. the $400 haircut is the least of it ...

if he used funds solicited for political campaigns for his own purposes.
Andrew details the Bunny Mellon scam, how some of the wealthy dowager's money went down a black hole, in his view.

[saracat]

15. And into Youngs pocket, which he doubtless mentions.

[marions ghost]

23. Fred was dispensing hush money left & right...

and Bunny Mellon's went into the coffers.

Read the book for Andrew's POV about the money.

[saracat]

26. I do not read trash. Why would I care about Youngs POV? He is a criminal

, literally, he had a record and was lucky to get a job. That was why he couldn't practice law. I also don't read the trash about hillary , Obama or anyone else. You might as well suggest I read the stuff that creep Larry Sinclair writes about Obama.Ugh. I might have been interested in what Fred Baron had to say but he is dead and anything attributed to himnow is hearsay and uninteresting to me.

[marions ghost]

35. It can be read as a modern morality play

Young does not paint himself as without sin, not at all. He appears to want to live differently and create a better life for his family. Time will tell. I haven't seen evidence of such an epiphany coming from John, who is all about covering and sliding out of things.

I thought Young passed the bar in NC, but I could be wrong. I think I heard something about a conviction once for some youthful prank or something--sounded kind of paltry after the criminality we have seen in politics. Do you know any more on that?

Not saying Young is a hero. He might never have changed if he hadn't been given a hard lesson. But his story does reveal the flaws in the hero-worship of John, and what happens to a cult follower who gets caught up in the glitz and glamour. The whole thing is a sad commentary on American politics. And for that reason I think the story has merit.

[mvd]

37. I agree

He completely finds fault with himself for his DUI, for example.

[saracat]

77. How nice, just the one? Doesn't his being rewarded bother you in the least?

Young gets to be rich and folks view it as merely providing for his family? LOL. Some morality plat. How pimping got me rich and famous by Andrew Young. Sheesh.

[mvd]

79. It's more than that, and no, it doesn't.

Young's other crimes were not major and were done when he was very young. I think his father's indiscretions put him into a spiral. He feels bad about those moments. And he couldn't be that rich if he needs money. Also, Andrew really did believe in Edwards. It wasn't all for personal gain. We're just not on the same page here.

I'm not saying Young is a saint. I think he is overly harsh on Elizabeth - who wouldn't be mad after the lie Edwards told her about Andrew and Rielle? He also put his family through a lot and should have left before it got so crazy.

[saracat]

86. No we are not .Young was a pimp. Elizabeth said he was creepy and obsessive and a stalker. He tried

buy land to build a house next door to them. Elizabeth wanted him gone. Edwards didn't fire him ,he removed him from contact and put him in a field office. He was a pimp and his wife knew it and facilitated it.I don't care if he believed in Edwards. He is a very sick person and greed played a huge part in this. He wanted to be "close" to fame and money.Elizabeth is exactly right when she says that Young and Hunter are the same. Funny how Young has never managed to get a real job. And there is more to the crime story.There is a reason he couldn't practice law. And I didn't say he WAS rich, I said he wants to be and is becoming so. He has the book sales , the advance and he sold the movie rights. The creeps are sitting on a pile of dough but it won't be enough. Just like the Baron money, they will run through it.He is being rewarded which disgusts me.

[mvd]

96. Unfortunately, this will keep going in circles

I just don't agree and stand by my previous posts. Elizabeth in the book even called Young "family." And Elizabeth made harassing phone calls to Young. They all have faults in the book, from Andrew to John to Cheri to Rielle to Elizabeth (with Elizabeth probably the least at fault,) but to me it is not as extreme as you make it.

Right now I'm moving on and agreeing to disagree.

[saracat]

76. Lot more than a youthful prank. And more than 20 charges as well as repeated DUI's.

I can't remeber what the serious charge was but it prevented him from practicing law. I think Elizabeth referred to it in her book. If this is a morality tale, why is Young getting rich instead of punished?

[cali]

88. I think all the venom you have toward Andrews is interesting

when it's the far, far more disgusting immoral JE who's responsible.

[goclark]

95. I agree with you ~ Andrew was not running for office

the highest office in the land.

John Edwards was and he should know better.
One thing for sure,he is the tip of the iceberg.

We expect this from Republicans but I want to believe that Democrats hold themselves to a higher standard.
He sure fooled me.


I shook his hand when he was running with John Kerry. Up close he looks like a movie star, a shame.
He had it all and he could not handle it.

[Raineyb]

118. Since when does one have to be moral to run for office? Do you not pay attention

to the number of immoral people who run for and remain in office after all their dirty laundry is aired? But you're letting the scummy writer of a tell all book off the hook? Why because he's validating your initial opinion in the first place?

[marshall]

122. Morality is more than sexual behavior or misbehavior

Immoral folks do get into office, but we should do our best to make sure the are driven from office as promptly as possible once their immorality is uncovered.

And I"m not referring to sexual immorality, although that too can be indicative of other immoral behavior. Morality is about honesty and fairness and caring about other people's welfare.

[saracat]

100. Gee Cali, odd that you would find the person who enabled the disgusting

Edwards more sympathetic. Honestly I find the fact that someone is making money off both the pain and suffering of a family as well as helping to facilitate it far more disturbing than a politician caught in an affair. I think Edwards was a sleaze but Young was a facilitator. Whatever.By those standards the pimp should get off easier than the prostitute.

[cali]

120. wtf? that's pretty crazy stuff there.

no, sorry. Edwards is far more disgusting and more of a sleaze in this story.

[marions ghost]

91. he's been punished

it's all uphill for him. Think about it. Your opinion is the common one, so he'll never be widely appreciated. He'll go down in history as "the guy who worked for Edwards and did the book." It isn't going to make him filthy rich--not like the Clintons and such. At best it'll allow him to recover somewhat. Check where he is in five years--you'll see.

Sounds like he had a past something like our last president. But Andrew got caught.

[howaboutme]

21. That was the moment I first questioned John Edwards

His $400 haircut meant he was either about Edwards only, total hypocrisy, or total BS. Up until then I supported him because I believed him to be completely sincere in his belief about the two Americas. In the end he was about John. There is no other way to justify it. I never support a politician because of what they claim. I support them only because of their actions.

[Captain Hilts]

9. Obama, Clinton, Edwards were ALL slick. Some cover it up better than others. nt

[cali]

10. there was something missing in JE

that went beyond being slick.

[Captain Hilts]

13. I agree. nt

[saracat]

12. You are so right The only difference is Edwards got tripped up

and that doesn't make Andrew Young and his conniving spouse hero's.

[mvd]

31. But they don't all cheat on their wives with cancer and then..

run for President anyway. I would be VERY surprised if President Obama did something of this magnitude. After Kucinich, I liked Edwards next, so I feel let down.

[Captain Hilts]

39. Yes, but we're talking about before we knew about the cheating. They ALL lied about stuff.

FDR lied about stuff when he ran. All kinds of stuff.

Edwards was just more shameless.

[saracat]

46. Maybe. Just got tripped up earlier. Vile as this is, it isn't any more vile than Newt

and his is still considered viable politically by the GOP!

[Captain Hilts]

57. You know...I actually heard the #$*! on Newt in '89 from the head of the

Republican party of Georgia, who had beaten Newt for the post!

[saracat]

66. you know what is ironic? I actually interviewed Newt and Edwards

on the same day at a conference on Health care in 2005 . I never knew they had so much in common.LOL. And how strange it is that both were so interested in health care , all things considered.

[mvd]

73. On that, we agree

The media doesn't seem to have the same standards!

[mvd]

72. Again, there's a sense of scale here

Edwards went beyond the usual politician.

[unc70]

99. I would be VERY surprised if Carter, not that surprised by most others

The Obama campaign was and is very aggressive in responding to even a hint regarding certain parts of his life, usually anticipating possible issues and explaining them away long in advance.

I see no reason to put Obama on a pedestal, several not to. His books give the reader an illusion of knowing a lot more about Obama and his life than they do in fact. I would only be surprise, not VERY surprised.

It takes a lot to really surprise me these days. I must admit, that Edwards had an affair wasn't so surprising, but I was VERY surprised it was with Hunter/Druck. Could not believe he would have picked about the worst possible person, and that none of his advisors had not stepped in to protect him or the rest of us from harm.

[gimama]

11. You're right on ALL counts! eom

[Arkana]

20. Slick is one thing--most successful politicians are.

But Edwards...geez. He was more than slick--he was Mitt Romney-levels of greasy.

[marions ghost]

3. People like to diss Andrew Young

I wouldn't do that until you read the book.

I consider "The Politician" the best argument for campaign finance control I've ever read. It also speaks to the cultism in American politics.

Yes, Andrew did a crazy thing going along with the "Rielle's baby's daddy" (lame) cover-up, but before you pass judgment, read the book.

[howaboutme]

22. Until we eliminate campaigns by and for the elite

we don't have a democratic nation.

That applies to both Rs and Ds. We must have total government financing that eliminates the lobbies and corporate elites. Then we might get our nation back.

[marions ghost]

27. You said it!

:applause:

& that's the most obvious point made by Andrew Young's book. He details how even the best and brightest --john and Elizabeth are technically very bright--fall into the trap of sucking up to whoever supports them. John's story is a classic case of what happens when it all falls apart.

Yes--total government financing of elections--is the only way to ensure a true democracy.

[wyldwolf]

4. with apologies to former and current Edwards supporters...

...but the man was the definition of craven opportunist. A centrist DLC Democrat his entire career (when it was the 'in' thing) and he suddenly becomes a 'progressive' when its the 'in' thing? Used car salesman and holy hell did we dodge a bullet!

[Nothing Without Hope]

16. Another craven "Democratic" VP candiate: Joe Lieberman

There's no way the Dem political machine doesn't know the truth about these slimes.

[tonysam]

109. Take a look at your avatar, and then try to sell me on your nonsense.

I actually like Bill Clinton a lot.

[wyldwolf]

110. why should I try to sell you on anything? Clinton never claimed to be anything he wasn't

Hey - will the REAL John Edwards please stand up?

[southernyankeebelle]

5. I use to have a girlfriend and her family was perfect to me. Their home

was beautiful. It reminded me of the Beaver Clever Clan. I came from a large loud family. I was envious of her family. She had everything I didn't have. We would go and visit her grandmother who I loved. Grannie was funnie. One day she sat me down when I was with her alone. She told me that what looks good on the outside isn't what is going on in the inside. She told me allot of things about her daughter and family. She told me that I was lucky to have a great family and stop looking over the other yard because it isn't always greener. She was right. I did eventually find out allot of things and in the end I thanked my mom (who was very jealous of my friends mother) for raising me right. I had the best parents and I hope people remember love what god gave you before its to late.

[cali]

6. I have never been so right about a politician

I pegged him as a slimeball by 2004.

[KoKo]

8. Good for You Cali!

[CTyankee]

25. Boy, I wish I had too! But I fell for the family narrative...I had read Elizabeth's book,

"Saving Graces," and I thought they were a loving couple and family.

Having said that, I do realize that this is a self-serving book by a wronged former employee, so it is from one point of view. I get that.

At this point, however, I am trying to sift out the truth from the fiction and it's hard to do...but I don't like what I'm finding...

[Captain Hilts]

Elizabeth was one of the truly bright stars of the '04 campaign. She was great. nt

[CTyankee]

45. Young's verdict on her is pretty grim. He says he "loved" her but it is clear

that he resents her treatment of him. How much of that is true, I take with a grain of salt. But by the same token, I don't think SHE told me the truth that I believed (or wanted to believe) at one time.

He does credit her with her campaign on such issues as health care reform. And that is what I admired her for. Who knows what happened in all the rest...

[marions ghost]

55. My impression is that Elizabeth kind of went slowly insane...

trying to micro-manage everything while being so hurt by her husband, not to mention all the other stress she was under.

She's better off without John. Whether she has more to do in this life depends on her energy level. I imagine her giving a lot of time to the kids from here on out.

Obviously she came to clash with Andrew and Cherie eventually, but she got service and loyalty before that IMO.

[Captain Hilts]

59. You guys DO know that Eleanor R told friends she was going to leave FDR after the

'32 election and run off with her boyfriend, right?

She was livid with FDR and wrote a note to friends who were at the Chicago Convention saying that's what she wanted to do.

FDR got elected, didn't let her take her boyfriend with them to DC even though he got to take his girlfriend, Eleanor's sense of duty wouldn't let her leave him and the rest is history.

Campaigns suck.

[marions ghost]

63. didn't know that...

but I don't exactly get what you're saying about the Edwardses either.

Elizabeth's sense of duty?...I think it was more like she took a page from Hilary's Revenge...(ie. get what you can out of it)...the marriage was over long before John crashed and burned IMO.

I think the whole nightmare (along with her health challenges) made Elizabeth snap. That's the sad part about her story...

[Captain Hilts]

64. No, I don't think Elizabeth had a sense of duty. I think it all became too much. And

"Hilary's Revenge"?

[marions ghost]

68. well just how

Hilary didn't let it destroy her and went on to make lemonade out of lemons.
So I think Elizabeth has been in that mode. But I think it's better if they separate. He'll keep up with his kids, I'm sure.

[saracat]

70. Insane? Hardly. I think she has handled everything really well.

She tried to salvage her marriage, now she is arranging the divorce and protecting the interests of her children ren, running her household, and started a business that benefits the community as well as contributing the the health care debate all while fighting cancer. She even has extended warmth to Quinn which most women could NOT do. She always despised the Youngs and no one could blame her. They were self aggrandizing sycophantic enablers and Young never "loved" Elizabeth. He loved access to money and power and Elizabeth saw through him.She was unable to pry him away from John, undoubtedly because he had insinuated himself too well and knew too much. Ugh.

[marions ghost]

93. Her business benefits the community?

how's that? It seems to be a way to manage her furniture buying and home-decorating habit. It's a boutique furniture store that is frequented by the very wealthy--might be a good distraction for Elizabeth, but it's a hobby, in no way "a benefit to the community."

Her work for health care IS admirable, and her support of her husband in his aspirations, while not always admirable, is at least amazing.

As for "extending warmth to Quinn" -- well, Elizabeth is realistic about her children having a half-sister. Better to acknowledge her now than have them deal with it later. Also there's a message to John--he can't ignore his love child and focus only on her kids--she's not letting him have that separation. So she has personal reasons for doing that.

EVERYONE in politics loves "access to money and power"--including John and Elizabeth. They were very ambitious. And they used Andrew every bit as much as he used them. It was a symbiosis.

So now Elizabeth is concerned with her legacy and obviously can't have Andrew Young painting a different picture of her. So she will do everything to cast him as the problem, the receptacle of her pain. Some of her pain is her own doing. Elizabeth deserves credit for just surviving at this point--she has been through a lot. And she's toughed it out--but it has taken a toll IMO.

When I say "insane" I mean that loosely. With all the pressure and "insanity" of the whole situation, she's gone a bit weird. Is that better?

[saracat]

102. Her business is directly set up to benefit the community and the state, specifically the furniture

factories which were experiencing a slump. Whole communities were centered around those factories. She saw this as winning and productive solution as well as an outlet for herself. I understanda portion of her profits is donated to needy women and children.

[marions ghost]

108. Take from the rich and give to the poor--OK--but

I seriously doubt that opening a small furniture store will be a boon to the economy of North Carolina.

Now if she opened a factory...and maybe employed people who need jobs...I could see the idea as more noble. Seeing as how the furniture factories are not only slumped but disappeared.

Not that she has to be noble. It's just disingenuous to present it that way.

[saracat]

114. She is employing people but whatever. This is what I read about her store and the intent

behind it. Believe as you wish. She isn't doing it for the money!

[karynnj]

60. Saving Graces is the book that made me realize that Elizabeth was as bad as John

The book had many distortions of 2004. What bothered me is that they were completely unnecessary. The worst story to me was her blaming Teresa Kerry for her going into a depression as she faced treating cancer because Teresa mentioned her doctor, not knowing she had chosen one, as not particularly good. (THK has major contacts here - she has run annual conferences that among other issues cover woman's oncology. The doctor THK recommended is the one THK went to in Boston.) The fact is that Elizabeth could have stopped Teresa before she recommended anyone - by saying she had decided who to go to. Not to mention - it was the fact that there are no clear "right" choices that was the problem.

That and the petty attacks on Teresa, emphasizing the RW stereotypes of 2004, likely because Kerry was a potential opponent were not worthy of Elizabeth.

[CTyankee]

52. Boy, I am sorry I didn't! I think I just got carried away by the Edwards'

family story and his very good health care reform plan which I liked best. I also liked his narrative about poverty in this country. It was a total sham, of course, but I thought at the time that he was brave to talk about it, when nobody else was. It was all a false front. What a joke on me and so many others.

One thing I didn't like about Edwards was his "prettiness." I thought he was too slickly pretty. The haircut story bothered the hell out of me. But I brushed those feelings aside. Wrong! And never again!!!

[saracat]

14. I wil no longer trust any of the pols but I also do not respect Young and certainly

won't place any more money in that conniving sods pocket. He and his disgusting wife were taking thousands of dollrs fron Fred baron and that was the real reson they were involved.That and the prospect of future earnings from this shabby situation.Why the heck do you think they took the tape.The Youngs are just as bad or even worse than Edwards and no one has to read a book to see that.
Those poor, poor folks who lived so incredibly high on the hog as a result of their bosses misbehavior, and now they get to be the mini celebs they always wanted to be. Ugh.

[marions ghost]

19. You do have to read the book

to see that there are two sides to every story. Suggest to borrow it just so you can form an opinion from the source, not hearsay.

I once felt like you do--exactly. But I decided to keep an open mind and at least read the thing, as the OP did. I don't say I buy everything he says, but Young makes a credible case for his point of view. His wife is certainly not disgusting--misguided and naive even--but not disgusting.

Young does not shy away from admitting his mistakes and the fact that he fully expected to be employed by the Edwardses into the future. As far as Fred Baron's role, Young solicited money at Edward's bidding--wrong in hindsight, but he was not the primary mover in that quest. The Youngs have returned the tape to Rielle and did not use it when they could have to make big bucks. They did the more honorable thing of writing the book.

They were caught up in the charisma of John and Elizabeth, and I think Andrew is credible when he says that he identified with John. They are from the same background in North Carolina. It's not far-fetched to see it as a relationship where Andrew thought of John like an older brother or father figure who he admired and trusted implicitly. At least at first.

Andrew's no angel, but he had a good slapdown from the cosmos in this. He dragged his family through hell. He's on the road to recovery at least. Addiction to the excitement and power (& money) in American politics is a serious affliction. It's also John's disease, but he obviously has no idea how to dig himself out of a bad place. Maybe he needs to write his own true story.

[mvd]

24. I'm reading the book now

Yes I liked Edwards's message, but there was always something that made me wary of him. I can't believe Young's devotion - it seems Young cared about himself more than the country - but I haven't gotten to the big cover up part yet and will reserve judgment.

Young admits he wrote the book partly because he needs money. But so far it's as nice to Edwards as possible, so I'm not sure there are any lies here.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

78. I listened to the audiobook a few weeks back while cleaning my house

Me = Sucker. I never saw it coming.

And yes, one of the firs things Young says is that he wrote the book for money.

[mvd]

85. Despite my reservations, I supported Edwards

Never donated like some here, but I thought he'd be a major player for us. This book is just sad all around. No one involved behaved well. :hi:

[saracat]

28. I saw them both interviewed. They were disgusting Cherie in particular.

You think this book is honorable? I don't mean to be nasty, and I think you are a very nice person from what I read but apparently you still are being suckered. T I am well aquainted with folks who knew both baron and young and Young got a heck of a lot of money and I don't see him returning it.He didn't relase this book for honor , he released it for MONEY and also sold the film rights.
Young and Cherie feel they are "entitled" to an ultra rich lifestyle, just like Rielle. Whats sad, is they are getting it.

[mvd]

29. There are legit points of view other than yours

I think the book is an interesting read so far.

[saracat]

30. I agree. But Young is a criminal and a conniving weasel who contributed to all this deceit and it

doesn't matter to me, it may to you, what his reasons are. I don't care.And it is disgusting that he gets rich on this.I mind that very much.

[mvd]

33. The book could be a lot worse to Edwards than it is

He presents the book in a mature manner. That is my OPINION, and they are all opinions.

[saracat]

41. And you are entitled to it. I am entitled to believe he is disgusting for getting rich on this.

If people are going to be disgusted with Edwards and Reille, they have to be equally disgusted with Young. I just don't get why some are giving him a "pass". He took money from everyone. I guess I think "wrong is wrong".

[karynnj]

61. I agree Young is completely disgusting

He was a complete sycophant, who seemed to have no independent moral judgment - on anything. His willingness to claim an illegitimate child as his and bring Rielle into his home with HIS CHILDREN is beyond disgusting. Did he stop to think how confusing this was for them. I assume he couldn't explain the baby was Edwards - as that would likely leak immediately.

I do think he saw himself in the WH as an aide. This would happen ONLY if JRE won - he had nothing to offer any other candidate. As to his wife - I honestly don't get why she didn't tell him to drop the nonsense, resign and say the baby was Edwards - or she and the kids were GONE. They both saw JRE as their ticket to an exciting life.

[mvd]

69. Because what he did just isn't as bad IMO.

[saracat]

87. Maybe or maybe it is the same since he facilitated it. And he benefited from it.

[CTyankee]

47. Young paints Cheri as the one who was always dubious about the Edwardses.

But who knows? I haven't gotten to the point in the story where Young takes the blame for fathering Rielle's baby. THAT'S where I want to see her true colors...I cannot for the life of me see doing that for ANYBODY, even the father of my kids! I think I'd take a hike before we reached THAT point!

[CTyankee]

34. One thing that has not been brought out: Andrew and his family NEEDED the money

that his work with the Edwardses' brought in. Young had a wife and 3 children at the point that Rielle Hunter entered the picture. He was in an iron cage, unable to get out without a precarious financial picture. That is not something you want to contemplate when you have very young children in your care!

WE are not all free agents who can just come and go in the job market freely and happily hopping from job to job. When you have small children depending on you, you do what you have to to survive.

I think this man has realized what he sacrificed for that security. He will forever have that as a blot on his record. It cannot be a very happy place for him. And I don't envy him his position.

So in a way he has paid for his transgressions. He's no angel, but he's no devil either...

[saracat]

36. Awwwww Next he will be compared to jean Valjean in Les Miserable stealing a loaf of

bread! Gimme a break. he is nothing but a gold digger. Sorry I can find no sympathy for him. There are other jobs he could get just not ones that would provide him with the style of living he thinks he deserves.He should of considered that before he acquired a criminal record. Edwards was the only one who would hire him .That is why he was always so "grateful". But then, he needed more.

[marions ghost]

42. Do you realize you are talking about a LARGE percentage of

the country--who would do anything(!) --to profit enough to improve their lifestyle? I see this all around me, and most that are profiting are not being made the pariah that Andrew Young is. He's a convenient receptacle for people's frustration about exploitation by the rich--an exploitation which I agree, is killing the country. But Young is small potatoes in that whole scenario. Gold diggers are literally everywhere, especially in this recession. Exploitation is many people's modus operandi.

I don't have sympathy for Andrew Young. He reaped what he sowed, and got a bitter pill to swallow. He's not enviable. I'm just saying that there are some lessons to be learned from his book, and it's delivered in a way that most Oprah-watching Americans can understand.

[saracat]

44. All I am saying is he certainly isn't "honorable" as some have said.

And small potaoes or not, he shouldn't be given a pass. Elizabeth was very right not to trust or like him. She should have taken even firmer steps to rid Edwards of him. Intersting, that despite all that is been said and done, we still have never heard the true story of all this and i doubt we ever will. But as long as money is to be made, the story will still be spun.

[CTyankee]

43. Yep, he goes into just what you are saying!

He outlines how he got drawn in and how he did everything you say he did. It's all there. That is what is so depressing about this book.

Look the guy had to write this book just to get enough money to support his family. If that isn't pathetic, what is?

BTW, I didn't buy this book, I got it out of the public library...so I am not supporting his "habit," ...

[saracat]

48. So why didn't he get a job instead of benefiting from bad behavior?

What happened to all the cash he took from Baron? Like I said, he isn't Jean Valjean, and I could give a damn about finacing a luxurious lifestyle for his wife and kids. Sorry no empathy here.Fresh out. Just like m other criminals shouldn't benefit from their crimes neither should Young. I am glad you didn't "buy" the book but honestly, I wouldn't even take it out of the library but we differ and we are entitled to. I just hate these kind of books. I hope Elizabeth kicks his butt and the legal fees crush him.

[CTyankee]

56. Well, I don't see me being on his side of the story just by the fact that I am reading his book!

I try to take a balanced view. I get what you are saying and I think you are right. but I am not on a crusade to crush him or Edwards. I feel it is a cautionary tale and it is ever thus. It's an age old story. We need to have it reinforced again and again. This is what happens when you allow yourself to be sucked into a lifestyle that depends on your giving over your judgement and your (somewhat shaky if at all) morals about the decisions you make. Young doesn't sound like a very solid guy to me based on his record, so I have no illusions about him. And maybe his wife is scum too. After all she approved of the whole scam on his being Rielle's baby's father. I can't even imagine doing that!

I get your outrage. I truly do. But I don't take this situation personally. I get it that they are just the latest in one of the oldest stories in the book...hubris taking over one's life and thinking you can get away with it. And then being surprised when it bites you in the ass...

[saracat]

65. I don't think you are "on his side" Sorry if that is how I seemed. Nor am I more outraged by this

than a lot of other things going on in the world today. Young just seems to exemplify everything that is wrong with America.I am just really frustrated.

[Juche]

81. There is one hilarious part

I'm going to give it away, but still funny.

Edwards is getting caught in his web of lies about Hunter, so he tells Young that he told his wife Elizabeth that Young was the one having the affair with Hunter and not him (John). He then tells him that Elizabeth is going to call Young to cuss him out, while Edwards is in the background acting shocked and appalled by Young's transgressions.

LOL. I am pretty sure that is what the book said. If so, yeah, we dodged a bullet.

I donated money to Edwards too. I feel like a sucker.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

82. That's right. Young kept the answering machine message Edwards left on his machine

""Andrew, it’s John,” Edwards said on the message. “I am gonna leave you this message just in case you get a call from me asking, ‘What's going on?’ The reason we're calling is because Elizabeth's standing there. So if I call saying, ‘What happened? How did this happen?’ -- that's because Elizabeth's standing there with me.""

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/01/video-john-edwards-mistress-wins-court-order-return-sex-tape

[unc70]

98. Young used tape marketing book, showed it to producers of morning shows, etc.

Part of the reason the judge had held the Youngs in contempt was that he testified that he had kept the video tape locked away and had not shown it to others. Several people then stated under oath that he had shown the video to them. He used a copy on his laptop to show it to several people with one of the network morning shows, which soon after would feature him in a long on-air interview.

Since Young has stated that he had kept the tape to backup claims in his book, it seems likely that its existence, at least, would have been revealed to potential publishers. If so, it might explain the unconfirmed reports around that time that the tape itself was being shopped around.

Young had also kept Hunter's financial records (statements, receipts, ledgers, etc.) relating to her business (videographer). While this made it much easier for him to verify dates and events, think about Hunter having to appear before the grand jury without having access to her records.

That grand jury is under the Bush-appointed prosecutor who has aggressively investigated Dems for corruption and anything else, following the Rove plan used in other states. To avoid the appearance of any influence or interference, the confirmation of the Obama appointee was put on hold pending completion of high-profile investigations of Edwards, Easley, and others. I see him dragging this out as long as he is allowed.

The last thing John Edwards should do is write his version of the story. Nothing to be gained contesting the Youngs, not much more to lose by not. Saying or doing anything wrt Hunter carries really great risk for everyone because she acts without regard for the consequences for herself or others. The photo spread and the Oprah appearance are obvious examples. Delusional at best, she would be impossible if she believed John was rejecting her or her poorly perceived "reality". (Think "Fatal Attraction", but with a baby and a grand jury.)

My opinion of the Youngs is not helped by repeated interviews with the local media, trying to justify their actions in shifting attention to the others involved, while then being surprised that at youth sports events with their children, the Edwardses would walk away to avoid encountering the Youngs. No surprise to me.

Finally, keep in mind NC's focus on poverty, education, and health care for the past 50 years beginning under Terry Sanford and continuing through today. A lot of progress, but a long way to go. When we started, much of NC was the same as the worst of the Mississippi delta. For example, UNC is a top medical school for family practice; also, best value for undergraduate education.

[marions ghost]

112. And your point is...????

Hunter abandoned the tape and the records & junk, is my understanding. They found them after she stayed with them. Given the animosity, why is it surprising that the Youngs would use the description of what was on the tape to their own advantage? They did not sell it and they did give it back (after torturing the principals for awhile, understandable).

I am in favor of the investigation of anyone in government for corruption, and that goes for Edwards and Sleezly. Democrats have to clean it up also. Sic some rabid bulldog Repug asshole on them, and they might think twice before they screw it up for our party. No mercy.

I agree it doesn't serve John to write his story --not in the legal sense. I was talking about in the moral sense. Something...halfway honest, y'know. It might be a really new, cathartic adventure for him. Sure he's not as evil as the Bushes and Cheneys--but that's not saying much. He's not what you'd call an admirable man, with a strong code of ethics, as he presented himself. Maybe he could talk about why he was able to betray his supporters all over the country and subvert his own positive message (the message that downtrodden people actually put hope in)? John Edwards could use some practice in being real. (I realize this idea is fantasy).

I'm not sure why you are touting the "progress" of North Carolina. John Edwards exemplifies that? What's the connection.

[unc70]

115. Tape was in same box as her passsport and financial records

I believe the current explanation is that the Youngs first discovered the tape while retrieving Hunter's passport from some boxes stored at their house when she moved elsewhere. At other times, the Youngs have described it as being abandoned or as trash. Since she asked for and they apprently retrieved her passport from a specific one of these boxes, I would be hard pressed to describe the other items with her passport as being either abandoned or as trash.

Would it look like trash to you? Probably not, though in normal circumstances it might well prompt you to return the other items to her and get them out of your house.


My mention of NC and its problems with poverty was in response to many DUers who that poverty was a sham issue for the Edwardses. I do not think that is true, in large part to growing up in NC during these periods, attending The University of NC, having that responsibility to make a difference in the lives of NC citizens drilled into me most every day, and living it the forty years since.
When you see examples of efforts against poverty almost everyday and involving widely diverse groups of people, the effort starts being a part of you.

Two thoughts to leave you with. First, the motto of the State of North Carolina. "Esse quam videri", "To be rather than to seem". Seems appropriate about being real.

The second is from the offical toast of the State of NC, down a few lines:

"Where the weak grow strong, and the strong grow great"

[marions ghost]

116. OK...

look, Young was made the fall guy by John and Elizabeth. They handled the situation with him SO stupidly. (Not the place here to detail how they SHOULD have handled it). Fall guys are going to do everything they can to fight back. It should surprise nobody that the fall guy would hang onto any damaging evidence as long as possible. Rielle has done everything she can to make the Youngs' life miserable. It's not a situation where you can expect all kinds of common courtesy, surely. You're not being realistic.

Poverty--I don't doubt that you and others do valuable work against poverty in North Carolina. But John Edwards had the money behind him, particularly Bunny Mellon's money, to make a huge difference, and he totally blew it. He might have believed that he "cared," but his actions show otherwise.

Hey how's that Edwards Poverty Center working out at UNC right now? There's been no news that I've seen. Any Bunny money left? Does it even exist anymore? Where's John? --not volunteering at the soup kitchen, I don't think. Maybe he's still down in Haiti, continuing to do penance?

John Edwards is a good reason why we can't leave such important issues as poverty to the whims of fly-by-night politicians. What's NC doing for the worsening extreme poverty and the former middle class falling into poverty? Is NC leading the way among states in dealing with it? I'd like some facts on that instead of mottos, thanks.

[unc70]

117. UNC Poverty Center -- take a look

Still there and functioning, currently lead by former president of William & Mary. Lots of recent activity, news releases, studies, etc.

www.law.unc.edu/centers/poverty/

To understand how bad things really were in NC, you must watch the new documentary "Change Comes Knocking - The Story of the NC Fund".

The pilot program the Edwardses sponsored for high school to college students ended, but several parts of it entered legislation for programs supporting education in NC. For a complete list of financial aid for colleges in NC, see www.cfnc.org

[marions ghost]

119. OK I did take a look

thanks for the link. There's some good info there, though I wonder what kind of momentum & financial support they have after Edwards' nosedive. I'm sure that's been hard to get over. Nichol seems to be a positive force and I hope he can lead the organization onward and upward.

Am I wrong in thinking that there was a huge opportunity missed here though? That Edwards threw away along with everything else? I wouldn't imagine he'd be too popular around the place.

I took note of your other refs, thanks.

[unc70]

121. Poverty Center not Edwards only, issues rather than personalities

I probably need to organize this a bit better and start a separate thread with various pieces from above and some other things:

The many attacks on Edwards, starting long before we knew of his affair, have systematically attacked his work privately and through the University using factual errors, outright lies, and personal attacks along the way. While many of these attacks came from supporters of his opponents in the Democratic primary, the claims being used originated primarily among groups on the right who oppose social welfare programs of all types, and who often blame the poor for causing their condition, or who see the issue highly distorted by their racial and ethnic prejudices.

One widely repeated claim is that Edwards had abandoned the Poverty Center at UNC or that it had been just a sham for his political activities. While his work there was certainly supportive of his political aspirations, there were strong benefits in return to the Center and the University. It is unfortunate that Edwards squandered his potential impact on these issues and can no longer have the prominent role as a spokesman and advocate,


The Center on Poverty, Work & Opportunity that Edwards helped start within the UNC Law School is currently lead by Gene Nichol, previously the president of William and Mary, and a past Dean of UNC Law. It receives funding from a variety of sources, including a recent grant form the Z Smith Reynolds Foundation. Its research, publications, and outreach programs would be of interest to anyone dealing with these problems.

[marions ghost]

123. Yes a thread on Edwards & the Center would be good

since you seem to know a lot about it. :thumbsup:

[unc70]

106. Remember Young's movie deal is with Rahm Emanuel's brother Ari

Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

[saracat]

107. Of course.

[saracat]

17. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! Look over here, an Edwards scandal!

What is "REALLY" important in the world today. BP, not so much, Anti -choice? No big. Repeal DADT? Wait till it is politcally expedient. Geez. Perhaps some can watch reuns of Reille Hunter on Oprah. She also claims to be a "truth seeker" and was good for ratings! Next up, Tigers mistresses.

[CTyankee]

38. Yes! Of course. You are absolutely right!

We need to look at the big picture and this is part of a big distraction...I agree. However, I think the fall from grace, or overweening hubris, or whatever we want to call it, is instructive. It was always thus, but it is always thus that it instructs. We need to have this lesson driven home again and again.

I have been right about most political things in my life: Vietnam War, civil rights, abortion rights, feminism, Reagan, Iraq War, environmentalism, etc.
I was wrong on Edwards and I have to look at that. I supported him early in the last campaign based on my assessment of his policy position (mainly on health care reform) and I was swayed by his family narrative. Wow.

This lesson has been sobering to me. We'd all be better off reading this book, IMO. Subtract a portion due to self serving stuff and you still have a pretty strong indictment of the Edwardses. Take it for what it's worth...

[saracat]

49. I feel the same . I was wrong about Edwards the man but not the issues and I will never regret my

support.

[phleshdef]

18. Never trust a guy that can't get through a sentence without blinking every half second.

[saracat]

32. Never trust any politician.

[cali]

89. Baloney. I trust my reps And they've earned it.

You trusted JE who did NOT earn the support of progressives. Discerning trust is different from what you bestowed on JE.

[saracat]

101. There is no such thing as an honest politician. Even those I like. It is not

the way the syatem is structured. It is all a level of degree. My father just to say the reson he wasn't involved in running for office any longer was he was "afraid the TPTB" might find out he was "honest" and he wasn't really joking all that much.

[cali]

103. ridiculous. There are absolutely honest politicians

I know some.

[saracat]

104. You probably think you do. Even Barny Frank publicly says such a thing doesn't exist.

Perhaps in the beginning, and locally.As i said , it is a matter of degree.

[cali]

105. as a matter of fact I was thinking locally

but also I'm fairly certain that Bernie is pretty honest and even more certain that Peter Welch is.

[elehhhhna]

75. might be hiscontacts -- too vain fofr glasses? the fussy hair is a dead giveaway: EGO ISSUES imo

[bemildred]

40. So, I hear Michael Jackson is still dead too. Hmm. nt

[marions ghost]

50. you thread killer, you

:D

But you illustrate the point--political representatives being made into rock stars is a recipe for disaster.

[bemildred]

51. Politics is show biz, and not much else these days.

I mean what the heck is Sarah Palin all about? It for sure is not substance.

[marions ghost]

58. The Sarah Palin Show

brought to you by BP, Monsanto and Wal-Mart.

I want her to become a televangelist.

Guess that'll have to wait until the season's over and the show is canceled.

[bemildred]

62. Well, I was thinking "Inspirational speaker", but yeah. nt

[karynnj]

53. I scanned parts of it while waiting to pick up a daughter at an airport

I agree it really shows that Edwards really was never what he was portrayed to be. It will surprise no one here, that I read what was likely the less controversial part - the 2004 primaries and general election.

Here, it was easy to read this as you would a work of fiction written in the first person. It is quickly clear that the writer is an "unreliable narrator". You are seeing the candidates and events through the eyes of someone who thinks John Edwards walks on water. But, what you see in Edwards is an arrogant, self obsessed man who already has massive ego problems.

He is shown as furious that Kerry wants to interview him - as "he knows me from the Senate". Actually they were on no committees together. Kerry's request is completely normal - Gore interviewed Kerry in 2000, though they knew each other very well - far better than Edwards and Kerry knew each other. He also has zero respect for Kerry thinking him not as smart as he was and not capable of outside the box creativity - though there are plenty of examples of creative solutions from Kerry (reinsurance for catastrophic costs) and none I know of from Edwards. His few was that Kerry's "intelligence" was having read the NYT and studied issues for decades. Now, it is true that Kerry, unlike Edwards, had incredible depths of knowledge, he ignores that even as a young man, Kerry in 1966 articulated a need to change foreign policy consistent with his current views. Edwards doesn't remember who he voted for in 1972.

Young includes an expansion of why Edwards, preparing for the conference refused to use "help is on the way". Here, I would bet the exact words are less important than the consistency with which they are said. I have long said that "hope is on the way" made NO SENSE. At that point hope was there!. Putting hope in the future is weak. His explanation was that people did not want help (not what they were telling Kerry et al), they just wanted hope.

There is an extremely weird - almost surreal story of the Kerrys coming to the Edwards house. In Elizabeth Edwards' book she spends pages obsessing about redoing a room before this - yet Young speaks of the house being "dirty" with dust bunnies and soda cans. The Edwardses were and are millionaires and they were not staying there. It is completely insulting to Elizabeth that Young first of pretty much calls her a sloppy housekeeper. (This is all not too believable - one assumes they hire people to clean.

Then there was the absurdity of the food. He speaks of being in charge and using the list the campaign had of food the Kerry's eat. He then speaks of buying ingredients and hiring someone who could cook what they wanted - things like meatloaf, roast chicken, fish, salad etc Wouldn't the normal thing been to have planned a nice dinner and had it ready for everyone? Kerry had an aide pick up food from Boston Markets instead. To Young this is somehow "snobbish".

Somehow the Edwardses PUBLICLY eating Wendy's makes them or the people, the Kerrys privately eating food from Bost Market is snobbish.

My reaction to all of this was a feeling of anger that the media and party pushed a vain Edwards as hard as they did.

[earth mom]

54. Young is an unethical piece o shit. I wouldn't believe a word he wrote for a second.

Yeah, maybe there is an element of truth in his book, but who would believe anything from a guy who would stick a knife in his best friends back for money and fame?

Sensationalism sells and Young knows it. No doubt he embellished his book just like James Frey did which helped him make millions by duping Oprah and the rest of the world with his lies.


That said, Edwards is a total lying cheating asshole too.

Edwards and that despicable scheming self centered beeyotch Rielle deserve each other. :puke:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

80. Except that Young kept the audio recordings Edwards left on his answering machine.

So...

[Carolina]

67. I read it, too

a real page turner and chilling to think how many of us were duped by BOTH Edwardses!

Never mind those here who criticize you or Young. Despite the motives, the book is totally believable and absolutely dynamite :hi:

[mvd]

71. This could have easily been a trash book. But when you read it, it really is not

It reveals a lot about the political system. And while money was part of the reason for writing, it really seems like he wants to exorcise his demons. After what he did for Edwards (even saying he's the baby's father,) I don't think he owes Edwards anything now.

[CTyankee]

90. Well, I don't believe ANY book to be completely truthful.

As I have said I find it hard to believe Young's wife was a "noble" as Young presents her. There's gotta be some screw loose somewhere for her to pretend that Hunter's baby was her husband's and to take Hunter into her own home with her kids AND to wait on her hand and foot! Hunter treated her like garbage and she just took it. Something's really, really wrong here...

[Carolina]

113. true: "something's really wrong here"

but I found the book fascinating, the cult of politics exposed and how it affects the candidates... The only tragic figure in this whole tawdry saga was 'poor' Bunny Mellon, so many better things she could have done with her bottomless checkbook!

[Hekate]

83. I believed in the guy, but California's late Primary and his dropping out early...

... saved me from investing more than my normal $25 starter check, so I don't have the bitter feelings that some here do. Still, it is truly sickening to have been taken in like that by such a slimeball.

Hekate

[marions ghost]

94. ha ha--me too, exactly

I gave my big $25, too, and then gave no more. I did believe his message, because I really wanted to.

Narcissist slimeball, yes. A sad character who could have "had it all."

Our political system attracts and cultivates this personality type.

[Raine]

111. Me too, thank goodness ...

but still I'm disappointed in myself for having such poor judgement. :-(

edit: added word.

[citizen snips]

84. Young was nothing but an errand boy.

He was just as guilty as Edward's for covering up the affair during the campaign.

[Canuckistanian]

92. .

[The Damned]

97. Worse than you'd imagined?

No mean feat! :wow: