Women need different techniques to ask for a raise than men

[Captain Hilts]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/15/your-money/15money.html?src=me&ref=general

Even now, when women represent half the work force, they’re still paid considerably less then men — and part of that pay gap may be a result of what happens at the salary negotiation table.

That’s assuming that women make it to the table, since research shows that they are less likely to ask for raises. Even when they do, their requests may be perceived as overly demanding or less agreeable.

“We have found that if a man and a woman both attempt to negotiate for higher pay, people find a women who does this, compared to one who does not, significantly less attractive,” said Hannah Riley Bowles, an associate professor at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, who has conducted numerous studies on gender, negotiation and leadership. “Whereas with the guy, it doesn’t seem to matter.”

So what’s a woman to do if she feels her work merits a raise?

A new study concludes that women need to take a different approach than men. Women, it suggests, should frame their requests in more nuanced ways to avoid undermining their relationship with their boss.

...

[ZombieHorde]

1. Recommended. nt

[Starry Messenger]

2. I'm afraid to look.

How could we be any more nuanced? Semaphore? Finger puppets? Interpretive dance?

[Captain Hilts]

3. Yeah, I saw that too. But a political PR person I saw interviewed recently said that

when you have a female candidate, you can't use as much footage of them speaking in ads as you can male candidates because folks are more likely to react adversely.

We have different expectations and tolerances for each sex.

[Control-Z]

4. 'because folks are more likely to react adversely'

Could it be that is it mostly men who are likely to react adversely?

[Captain Hilts]

5. No, not necessarily. Probably in greater percentages, but no doubt some women feel the same way. nt

[Control-Z]

8. I was responding more to:

you can't use as much footage of them (women) speaking in ads as you can male candidates because folks are more likely to react adversely.

It just doesn't sound like reality to me.

I should have made myself more clear.

[Starry Messenger]

6. I've had crappy women bosses and men bosses when it come to money for workers.

The ownership mentality transcends all differences.

[Control-Z]

9. See

post #8. I wasn't very clear in my statement.

[Starry Messenger]

18. Gotcha.

That would be an interesting study.

[haele]

7. No, in my experience, women are harder on other women than men are.

True, my experience is around engineering and military fields, which are still primarily male dominated, but women tend to react poorly to aggressiveness in other women. There always seems to be an unspoken "dog in the manger" feeling towards women who are aggressively successful, especially if the other woman doesn't appear to have had to make the same sacrifices. Class hierarchy also plays amongst women - the more wealthy and "taken care of" a woman seems, the harder it is to view her as a equal "sister in arms".
I've had this attitude directed towards me in the past when I was single and "one of the guys" - surprisingly enough, in my experience, it wasn't as prevalent in the military as it was in private business.
Personally. I think this attitude is a sign of the way many women handle uncertainty in some professional fields. When a culture values appearance the same as achievement is valued, then a dichotomy can be set up where the business stereotypes (women are diplomatic, nurturing, and emotional, men are calculating, aggressive and unfeeling) can impact a financial consideration.

Unlike the Military or some Government Service jobs, Private business is not based on a meritocracy. It's ultimately what role you fit into, who you can impress and how much profit can be made on your role.

Haele

[Control-Z]

10. See

post #8. I wasn't very clear in my statement.

[haele]

11. I understand - reality is often different than "conventional wisdom"

In the average situation, most people wouldn't think twice about the gender when it comes to deciding who they want to represent them, unless they've got cultural bias against certain genders in certain positions. But the meme that is often developed is that you need to pander to your percieved audience. So an ad agency will try to insure that their candates will fit certain sterotypes - because it's easier to sell a sterotype than a person.

And in my opinion, that trend to putting people in rigid little sterotype boxes is what is slowly destroying the United States. Our roles in society are more and more being scripted by corporate group-thinking to make it easier to buy and sell not only the products and lifestyles, but the people.

Haele

[SoCalDem]

16. 3 things

1. cleavage
2. high heels
3. short skirt

I am being facetious, but even in 2010, there are many workplaces where women are valued as "less" than men because of their gender.

In occupations where physical effort is required, women are often seen as "weaker" than men (even though many women are actually stronger and in better shape physically than their male co-workers).. The common perception in many occupations, is that the men on the crew "carry" the "little woman".

In occupations where brain-power is required, men are often seen as more analytical, and also more willing/able to put in long hours, well past normal working hours, and women with children are seen as less flexible.

In low skill/low paid occupations where women dominate (in numbers), they are often seen as one of a never-ending supply of more workers...just in case they get the idea of getting "uppity" and asking for a raise.

The ONLY thing that protects female workers (all workers) is a UNION. Union contracts spell it out, in brain-numbing detail. Everyone knows what everyone else is earning, and when the raises will happen. Advancement is a scheduled thing, based on hours & experience..not the whim of a boss somewhere along the line. (that said, there are always opportunities for a malevolent boss to screw with you anyway..but in a union, you have some push-back opportunity)

[notesdev]

12. Start your own business

Then you don't have to go hat in hand to someone else if you want a raise, all you have to do is work harder, smarter, or more effectively.

[Captain Hilts]

14. And this kind of sexism just evaporates? Whew!

[Captain Hilts]

15. And not be able to afford health insurance. Not an option, especially if you have kids. nt

[bettyellen]

17. no i think the managers who treat women unfairly ought to be the ones who don;t have jobs.

your post is vile and sexist

[Captain Hilts]

20. Yes it is. He wants to reward sexist behavior. nt

[bettyellen]

21. and expects half the population to start businesses? LOL how fukcing stupid is that?

[BlueIris]

13. Ew.

Misogyny is still entrenched in the business world, I see.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NNN0LHI]

22. How about negotiating a union contract for a raise?

Why does someone even need to worry about undermining their relationship with their boss to receive a raise?

I never went to work to build relationships. That wasn't part of my job description. I went to work to fix machinery and make money. Only relationship I had with my boss was he would give me a job to do and I would do it. Didn't need much of a relationship for that.

Don