Why do national polls keep showing majority support for racist immigration laws

[branders seine]

like the one in Arizona?

Is America over the edge on racism again?

It's clear that the country is becoming more and more regressive (or accepting of the regressive policies of the dominant supply-side conservatives that have dominated DC since Carter left), but this kind of thing would have been called unamerican for most of our history until now.

[polichick]

1. Because a lot of those polled are voting to protect the borders, period. nt

[EFerrari]

32. They are asked if they will agree with racial profiling if it makes them safer.

They aren't told that this new law doesn't make them safer at all. In fact, when the Latino community stops reporting crime or cooperating with the police, these people will be less safe.

[polichick]

34. I'm just saying why many are polling this way - it's not that they're all racist...

...but that they're sick of the problems that come with people flooding their state - I've lived in a border state and remember the anger at the federal gov't for not dealing with immigration and leaving it to communities to cope with bad federal policies.

[EFerrari]

36. The question was about national polls.

[polichick]

44. Same answer - it's about people being fed up with fed policies...

It's silly to assume everyone who supports the measure is racist.

[EFerrari]

47. Well, it can't be the same answer because they all don't live

in border states and immigration is DOWN, not up so unless you do live in a border town, no one is streaming anywhere except in Republican fantasies -- and in the fantasy of white nationalists whose recruiting is up.

Interestingly, despite the fact that immigration is down and not up, ICE keeps expanding its programs all over the place. This is as active as the Feds have been since before Reagan, I think.

And that's why it seems (to me, anyway) to come down to framing of these polls. If you ask people if they prefer racial profiling over danger, they're going to say "yes".

[Confusious]

84. Illegal crossings in Arizona up 6%

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/18/national/main6495885.shtml?tag=stack

[RoyGBiv]

2. Again?

When exactly did the United States stop being over the edge on racism?

This is a racist nation. Always has been. We've improved from a hundred years ago but not so much as some people want us to believe.

[Puzzler]

3. What demographic is being phoned?

If it's a phone poll, then it's most likely land lines only... and that means an older demographic. I know few (if any) people under the age of 30 that have land lines any more.

[RKP5637]

4. I've wondered about that. I think it's a level of frustration with the Fed. that

nothing appears to ever happen. The companies that hire illegals below slave wages need to be gone after, but none will do it... it appears. I think many people are more frustrated than racist... I hope.

[emilyg]

8. Agree.

Phoenix is the #1 city for kidnappings - people are worried.

[frylock]

9. undocumented workers are not kidnapping people in phx

[emilyg]

27. I didn't say they were - try

telling that to Phoenix residents.

[frylock]

29. the only residents in phoenix that need to be concerned about the excess of kidnappings..

are likely involved in human and or drug traffiking themselves.

[Caliman73]

63. You didn't say it, but the implication is that there is a relationship.

As you point out, the people of Phoenix as well as many people in the United States want to believe that the immigration policies and the people coming into the country are the problem. The problem is the exploitation of the people for profit which is perpetrated between the corporations in the US and abroad as well as the governments of the US and other countries which create abject poverty and no opportunity to improve the quality of life. That causes people to risk their lives on the journey to the US where there is more opportunity to earn a living and send money home.

[JI7]

15. no , i'm pretty sure they are racist

[Mojambo]

5. America never stopped being racist. n/t

[Number23]

33. Thank you. I have to laugh that this question is even being asked

The answer "Because this is a racist country" seemed far too obvious to me.

[branders seine]

81. in some ways we've scarcely improved

since Lincoln

[theoldman]

6. Because all of us are racists.

On the other hand if you only poll people with light colored skin and don't ask the opinion of dark skinned people you will get the answer that Republicans want.

[KonaKane]

74. Silly, incorrect meme.

However I do believe that much of the support for the papers please law comes from racists.

[kiva]

7. Since I doubt that the polls use the term

"racist immigration laws", it's likely that the majority of Americans do not support illegal immigration - a position that would not have been called unamerican until now.

[Scuba]

Because it's a poll, and polls can be rigged to say anything you want them to say.

[branders seine]

41. :-)

[Dr Morbius]

10. Perhaps I've missed some, but most of the polls I've seen about this issue

come from Rasmussen. I don't trust their polling methods; I don't trust the corporations with whom they're in bed.

[bik0]

24. deleted

[izzybeans]

11. When it comes to South Asia and Latin America our racists have just begun.

[sabrina 1]

12. They don't understand the law. They think it will stop

terrorists from coming across our borders, and yes, there is so much bigotry still in this country. I have talked to a lot of people who supported it. But then when I ask them why they would want to live in a country where they had to 'show their papers' they didn't think it applied to them.

I am shocked at the level of prejudice I've seen recently. I really wasn't aware of it being this bad not having come across it so much where I lived in NY.

Fear is the driving factor and the fear of people who are different was instilled expertly after 9/11. It unleashed the right to be prejudiced based on 'patritoism'. Once it became okay to call Muslims 'ragheads' and 'camel jockies' and our Military Generals were telling the troops to treat the Iraqis 'like dogs', what was probably already there under the surface, came out into the open.

Education works, but the media never explains the awful ramifications of this bill nor the fact that it will do nothing at all about 'protecting our borders'.

[JanMichael]

13. Because there are a shitload of Ethnocentric Racists in the U.S...

...of A-holes.

[RKP5637]

19. I think the A-hole percentage in this country has increased significantly over the last

10 or 20 years. I also think there are quite a number of absolute jerks in the country that think THEY are the REAL Americans and no one else. Frankly, it's becoming a very unpleasant country to live in IMO. Also, all you hear is hostility and I blame that on the MSM... the MSM drones on 7x24 on all of the 'divides' between people they can find.

I also think the bean counters for MSM decided to follow the AM radio success. AM radio was going down the tubes 'till they discovered hate AM radio shows and RW AM religious radio shows sell air-time. I think MSM is sniffing the money trail.

Also, jerks like Palin, Beck, Limbaugh and the like push the concept it's fine to be A-holes. In fact, it's getting hard to find things people have in common across the entire population. If young, I would be looking to leave.

[branders seine]

78. si, bueno

[FBI_Un_Sub]

14. Think of the "Know Nothings"

The "Know Nothings" were xenophobic, racist, anti-Catholic, pro-slavery, and manipulated by the oligarch ruling class. Sound like the Tea Baggers and the "Republican Base"?

[branders seine]

18. exactly!

long tradition in America.

After all, it was the local gentry landowners who manipulated commoners into fighting the American Revolution in the first place.

[pampango]

35. They do sound just like the "Know Nothings". From wiki: "a nativist American political movement of

1840s and 1850s. It was empowered by popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by German and Irish Catholic immigrants, who were often regarded as hostile to Anglo-Saxon values." - replace "German and Irish" with "Mexican"

"Mainly active from 1854 to 1856, it strove to curb immigration and naturalization, though its efforts met with little success. Membership was limited to Protestant males of British lineage over the age of twenty-one." - now membership seems to be limited to whites over 55

"The key to Know Nothing success in 1854 was the collapse of the second party system, brought about primarily by the demise of the Whig party. The Whig party, weakened for years by internal dissent and chronic factionalism, was nearly destroyed by the Kansas-Nebraska Act. Growing anti-party sentiment, fueled by anti-slavery as well as temperance and nativism, also contributed to the disintegration of the party system. The collapsing second party system gave the Know Nothings a much larger pool of potential converts than was available to previous nativist organizations, allowing the Order to succeed where older nativist groups had failed."

The party gained wide popularity. According to historian David Harry Bennett, "nativism became a new American rage: Know-Nothing candy, Know-nothing tea, and Know-Nothing toothpicks were manufactured..." Stagecoaches were dubbed "The Know-Nothing. And in Trescott, Maine, a shipowner dubbed a 700-ton freighter, "Know-Nothing.

The platform of the American Party called for, among other things:

* Severe limits on immigration, especially from Catholic countries.
* Restricting political office to native-born Americans of English and/or Scottish lineage and Protestant persuasion.
* Mandating a wait of 21 years before an immigrant could gain citizenship.
* Restricting public school teacher positions to Protestants.
* Mandating daily Bible readings in public schools.
* Restricting the sale of liquor.
* Restricting the use of languages other than English.

Not sure the Tea Baggers want to restrict liquor sales (and change the first one to "nonwhite countries"), but the rest of the Know Nothing agenda should seem very familiar to the republican base.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

[still_one]

16. Yes, American is Racist. Its ugly head is rearing again. This usually happens during

time of economic downturns

What is most disturbing is that the MSM is trying to legitimize it, and that is morally and ethically wrong

[Mojeoux]

17. This Bugs me too. The MSM treats it like sport.

Like schoolyard smart asses.

"UUuuuew, they said YOUR racist(or insert whatever). Are you going to let that fly?

Uuuuuew! The shit's gonna HIT, America, stay tuned!"

[RKP5637]

22. I would also include the schoolyard bullies too... n/t

[still_one]

31. I agree. /nt

[Motown_Johnny]

20. backlash for decades of not enforcing the existing laws. Now they want Draconian measures taken

[Rex]

21. Because 75% of the country is white?

Dunno.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

23. It's the new, energized "Southern Strategy". When faced with economic dowturn, pick a

scapegoat. You can usually tell by the color of their skin, their sexual orientation, or their religious beliefs.

[RKP5637]

26. Yep, it reminds me of the 60's all over again. This time they left their robes off. n/t

[political_Dem]

55. +10000 The "Southern Strategy" has become more virulent today.

The RW handlers send their dog-whistles to their on-air commentators, reporters and pundits to bombard America via television, newspapers, the radio and the internet every day.

These broadcasting pontificators even inject their own racially charged words (i.e. "illegals", "anchor babies"), pretend that it is benign and have the public echo them as if they were nothing special even though such language is an attack on people of color.

I find that a whole lot of people are drained of empathy and their critical thinking skills. Some find it easier to parrot what the Becks, Hannitys and Rushes blather without even thinking twice.

So when a person asks about America being more racist today than ever it was before, it is easy to counter, "When has this country not been more racist?" :(

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

77. On a more disappointing point, the Right Wing/M$M collusion to divide and conquer

seems to be working. Sadly there black Americans who also agree with the Arizona law. No matter how much I try to explain that there hasn't been an increase in crimes, and that we should be angry at outsourcing and the corporations/politicians that benefit from shipping jobs overseas, I still cannot break through. And as a woman of color, I am often ashamed that some in the black community have given in to all the rhetoric. But that's what happens when you have a marginalized, vulnerable community. We tend to attack one another rather than direct our anger and efforts at those that should be on the receiving end. That was always a centerpiece of the Southern Strategy: not only to create racial discord and play on the fears and prejudices of White Americans, but to divide marginalized groups, pitting one group against the other.

It saddens me deeply.

[political_Dem]

82. You speak the truth. It is a persistent problem. :(

The RW thrives on appealing to the baser instincts of the human personality. It is sad enough that the GOP and their ilk use racism and "the other" to cause mainstream America to hate other socio-cultural out-groups.

That's why i agree with you. When people of color battle each other out based on the animus pitched by conservative pundits, anchors, politicians or reporters, is much more depressing. This dislike and discord translates into votes for the GOP because they want our side as Democrats to be disordered and fractured. That's how they see free thinking individuals.

Groups who have faced oppression and discrimination ought to know better when these games are played. We know better than anyone when we're being tricked because this is the modus operandi of how racists use their privilege and supremacy to get ahead. The people in power want to keep us ignorant. They use that ignorance to gain power and benefits for themselves while those affected by oppression suffer.

And what is worse, these bastards laugh at us as we fight each other. :(

So, instead of fighting each other, we've got to use our critical thinking skills as a BS detector. After all, as communities of color, if there is a law that is passed against one of our groups, it is a strike against the rest of us. It's not like the Southern Strategy is a secret. We all know about it. But, we've got to fight back by dismantling it by using our wits and our voices to stop their racist stupidity.

None of us escapes from oppression, no matter how much hate and suspicion against other people is being thrown around.

[glen123098]

25. This is clearly a majority bigoted nation

Thats why gay marriage always fails at the ballot.

[Johonny]

28. the general feeling is people don't understand the law

It's sort of like the health care bill. They liked all the parts of the bill, yet hated the bill because they knew it by name only. In this case people like hating immigration (it's not like restrict immigration laws haven't polled will for 150 years), but tend to hate these laws when the individual law is explain outside of the immigration mantra.

[Eg-ptiangirl]

30. Xenophobia is not Racism

Xenophobia is normal when economy is down. Plus most people in the world will say they don't want more foreigners in polls but will treat foreigners in normal and friendly way.

[Lance_Boyle]

37. Perhaps because enforcing national borders is NOT RACIST

no matter how much the sniveling pipe-dreaming one-world no-borders advocates whine about it?

[Bill McBlueState]

38. right, enforcing national borders is not racist

But the new law in Arizona is racist. That's what the OP's about.

[ismnotwasm]

54. In this case it sure in the fuck is nt

[kctim]

39. Because it is clear

the majority do not favor open borders or people breaking our laws to cross them, so they see no problem with checking a persons citizenship AFTER they have already been detained for committing another crime.

These fear based 'papers please' and 'death panels' BS are nothing more than politics as usual.

[EFerrari]

40. You mean, like the Sheriff of Pima County?

Nice try but you're wrong.

[kctim]

43. Wrong?

Ok, I can accept that.

So that I am better informed, could you please show me where the law says the police have free reign to demand 'papers please' from anybody they wish?

[EFerrari]

45. Why don't you go read the brief the ACLU filed or the NAACP.

And, btw, this talking point of yours is the same one being used by the hate group, Federations of Americans for Immigration Reform, just so you know the company you're keeping.

[kctim]

46. What is wrong with reading the law

and actually knowing what it says?
Why does someone need somebody else to tell them what to think?
What is wrong with thinking for oneself?

To be better informed, I simply asked for you to show me where the law says I am wrong. But the best you can do is tell me I am keeping company with a hate group because I dare question you?

[EFerrari]

49. How many straw men can you stuff into one post?

Lol

And of course I'd direct you to AClU's brief because they're LAWYERS and no matter that I have read the law in at least two iterations, they're treatment is necessarily more informed than mine.

[kctim]

50. And now the straw man argument?

LOL indeed.

Seriously now, are the ACLU, ACIU and the NAACP "briefs" the law? Or is what the law says, the law?

You have read "at least two iterations" of it, surely you can show me where it says that I am wrong. Instead of just offering opinions you support as proof.

[EFerrari]

56. This Think Progress piece speaks to the wording of the law as passed

and as amended, it speaks to the hate group lawyer that wrote it and it speaks to his intentions to cast as wide a net as possible. There are two salient points. One, he took out the "lawful contact" and "legal stop" language because even this @sshole knows that language wouldn't stand a challenge.

But, because he couldn't help himself, he inserted language allowing cops to use "any county or city ordinance" to begin a status query. So he fixed one problem and created another.

And he did this rewriting WHILE he was writing an OpEd for the NYTs where he argued the law was fine as written -- which he knew was bull because he was rewriting the POS at the same time.


http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/04/30/kris-kobach-email/

That is the crux of the matter.

[kctim]

58. Yes

it speaks to what they believe his intentions are, just as Palin spoke of what President Obama's intentions were.

The "crux of the matter" is what the law actually says, not the preceived intentions or opinions of those trying to score political points.

[EFerrari]

62. You are arguing in circles. The section you're pointing to is 2B.

That section is only ONE of the problems with this POS.

This is what it said when it passed:

A. NO OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR
16
OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY ADOPT A POLICY THAT LIMITS OR
17
RESTRICTS THE ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN THE FULL
18
EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW.
19
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
20
OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
21
STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
22
UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
23
WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
24
PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
25
PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

http://74.6.146.127/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Arizona+SB+1070+text&fr=yfp-t-701&u=www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf&w=arizona+az+sb+1070+text+texts&d=c13tG-8_U0Zv&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=wQYvLqNVbeZnpsbmxNTjMA--

This is what it says now:

42 B. For any lawful contact STOP, DETENTION OR ARREST made by a law
43 enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law
44 enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or
45 other political subdivision of this state IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF ANY OTHER LAW
H.B. 2162
- 4 -
1 OR ORDINANCE OF A COUNTY, CITY OR TOWN OR THIS STATE where reasonable
2 suspicion exists that the person is an alien who AND is unlawfully present in
3 the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to
4 determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination
5 may hinder or obstruct an investigation. Any person who is arrested shall
6 have the person's immigration status determined before the person is
7 released. The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal
8 government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c). A law
9 enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other
10 political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or
11 national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to
12 the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution. A person
13 is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States
14 if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the
15 following:

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/043010_hb2162/

Both versions rely on "on reasonable suspicion" which in practice means racial profiling and the changing out of "lawful contact" with the appeal to local ordinances doesn't change that.

In addition, this POS puts LEOs on the hook no matter what they do. It's an anti-law enforcement bill much more than it is anti-illegal immigration.

Even Howard Hughes couldn't make this baby fly, no matter how much the rabid right would love to see it in the air.

[kctim]

71. Thank you

for FINALLY addressing what the law actually says, instead of the opinions of others.

It seems you are concerned over the words "on reasonable suspicion" and equate them to mean racial profiling. I take it that this is where you get the 'papers please' rhetoric? As if any police officer can ask any person who looks hispanic for their 'papers please,' at any time?
I stated this fear mongering is wrong and the words "IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF ANY OTHER LAW OR ORDINANCE OF A COUNTY, CITY OR TOWN OR THIS STATE" which preceed 'on reasonable suspicion' pretty much show that.

I don't see how LEOs, WHILE ENFORCING ANOTHER LAW, would be "on the hook" for checking the citizenship of a person who cannot prove their citizenship. Of course some slick lawyer will find a way to make money or even a court may rule against this law, but what I stated is that this law does not give any police officer the power to ask anybody they feel like, at any time they want, for their 'papers please.'
And you have not shown otherwise.

[EFerrari]

75. Oh, yeah, those slick lawyers who want to score political points.

LOL

This has been very entertaining. But in addition to not being a lawyer, I'm also not an optometrist.

Have a nice day. :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. So explain and defend the banning of ethnic studies.

Good luck.

[kctim]

61. Why?

I enjoyed them when I was a student and see no reason to get rid of them. So, naturally I do not agree with "banning" them.
Funny how you jump to that conclusion though.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. Because you're defending racism.

And I want to see how far you'll take it.

[kctim]

72. WHERE did I defend racism?

By asking where the law says police officers can demand 'papers please,' from anybody they feel like, anytime they wish?

Perhaps you can do better than EF and show us where it says that? If so, I will gladly say it is racist and will denounce this law along with the rest of you.

[EFerrari]

79. I did you show you, chapter and verse.

That you continue to deny it reflects on you, buddy, not me.

But I don't expect someone who is defending a law written by a hate group to ever take that kind of responsibility.

[kctim]

85. Um, yeah

HiFructos said I was defending racism so that was who I was addressing.

FWIW, you provided only fear based opinions to support your position, not facts. For some reason, you are afraid to face those.

No biggie though, to each their own.

[Romulox]

42. There is a vacuum of leadership at the border. Under such conditions, extremism flourishes

This is also the responsibility of the Federal government and the corporate elites who bankroll them.

[NNN0LHI]

48. Same reason Bush once had a 90+ percent approval rating

Over 9 out of 10 people you see walking down the street are complete idiots.

Don

[AndrewP]

76. Ding ding...winner. :)

[slackmaster]

52. Maybe a majority of people want to have the border enforced better

Just one possibility.

[TheKentuckian]

53. Because we are populated by a lot of racists, xenophobes, easily mislead morons,

yellow bellied cowards, and various forms of douchebags.

[krabigirl]

57. Because people are being led to this...most people were for the Iraq war at the beginning, also.

[Tailormyst]

59. Because many do not understand the law or the problems it will cause.

It has more to do with ignorance then with racism. I've talked to people who thought it was good, until I pointed out the consequences of the law, then they looked rather shocked and said "I didn't know that" or "I wasn't thinking about it that way".

[Junkdrawer]

60. They tuk r jobs...

[librechik]

65. Time to look at ourselves in the mirror--or at our kissing cousins

It's up to us to come forward and lead the community away from these cruel mindsets. We have been hiding, afraid of our racist abuser elements too long. When the people stand up to bullies they slink away. Be brave, comrades. We have nothing to lose but the enslavers.

[EFerrari]

66. The same multinationals behind the overthrow of Zelaya in Hoduras

screw American workers and consumers at every opportunity. This hatred of immigrants is at bottom a distraction via divide and conquer.

[librechik]

67. yep--immigrants are just folks trying to make a living for their families too

just like the majority of us--and getting screwed by The Man--just like us.

[EFerrari]

68. One of the reasons they wanted Zelaya gone is that he raised the minimum wage.

And that's pretty much the pattern you see whenever our government helps overthrow a government in Latin America. Undocumented workers get screwed twice. Once at home and again when they are forced to come here so their families can eat.

But that whole first part is never part of our narrative.

Sort of like the way we never hear how the Shah of Iran wanted a nuke because everyone had one and when he announced that, no one said anything about it. He, our client, began that program. After the revolution, it was shut down. The latest effort in Iran was begun AFTER we gave Saddam WMD to use on Iranian troops. But that part of the story is never repeated either, is it?

[librechik]

69. there are two governments, the one we hear about, and the invisible one

no question which is more powerful.I wonder how they do it.

[EFerrari]

70. Propaganda really does work. Sarah Palin is the living proof. nt

[RedCloud]

73. Psst. This is a lose lose issue for Republicans. Let them have it.

The groups who have long been targeted by bigots will show up in droves to defeat them.

[dumpdabaggers]

80. Because they do.

It is sad.

[SoCalDem]

83. polls "say" what they people commissioning them WANT the polls to say. n/t