Paul Krugman- An Upward Trend

[NJmaverick]

A funny thing has been happening on Capitol Hill: lately, the Democrats have started exceeding expectations. Health reform, pronounced dead by all the usual suspects, happened (all hail Nancy Pelosi, arguably the greatest Speaker ever.) Now financial reform seems set to pass, in a stronger version than almost anyone expected:

But the big picture is that a strong new consumer protection regulator and a move to force over-the-counter derivatives through clearing houses and onto electronic exchanges are set to be included in law in the face of a multi-million dollar lobbying effort from banks and the US Chamber of Commerce.

Neither seemed likely at the end of last year when the received wisdom was that the Senate would eventually pass a watered down version of the House bill to placate moderate Democrats and draw the support of Republicans.

Since then the political winds have changed dramatically …
If Democrats hold the House, which is still a big if but is starting to look possible, the 111th Congress — and, yes, Obama’s first two years — will go down in history as an epic success.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

[BeyondGeography]

1. I think the oil spill is helping our numbers, too, much as I hate to phrase it that way

Reminds people you need a government, and of how reckless the Republicans are. And the Republicans, bless their hearts, helped guarantee political fallout for themselves in the event of any such disaster by chanting drill-baby-drill as loud as they could.

[NJmaverick]

2. Not only do people need government they need one that isn't mismanaged by Republicans

[dionysus]

3. uh oh! krugman needs to duck!

:hide:

[NJmaverick]

4. sad but true

[zipplewrath]

5. Nah, I don't find much to criticize

I don't particularly agree with much, but there isn't much there. I'm glad the fiscal reform is appearing to be stronger than expected. It needed to be, badly. Pelosi has a long way to go for that title, but I could care less. And Obama's HCR is already being represented, by Krugman, as insufficient to control health care costs. In 10 years we'll be arguing about how to "fix" it again. Probably have the same reputation that DADT and NAFTA have today.

And strangely, I find it interesting that he is talking about loss of control of the House. We may lose seats, but I hadn't heard alot of serious talk about losing the majority. There's always concerns, and the minority is always claiming the potential. But it was only the highest of hyperbole that spoke of it openly. We may lose so many as to FUNCTIONALLY lose control. Enough conservative leaning dems who are willing to leverage the GOP and it can be trouble. It's why folks are worried about waiting on DADT.

People got all excited in the first couple of years of Bush II. The glory doesn't last long, and can easily collapse around you. If he doesn't get out of Afghanistan, and soon, as well as Iraq, he's gonna have real big fiscal problems to address.

[NJmaverick]

6. Your comparison of the excitement of the early bush years vs the Obama years

is flawed in a couple of regards. First 9/11 had a major impact on the bush years, which make them ill suited for any comparison. Secondly the bush presidency was designed around short term gains and quick fixes. It might have worked, in terms of keeping the GOP in control, had the short term given out to the the long term disastrous effects of those policies made themselves known before the election. What's impressive is that President Obama has taken a long term view and plan. So to see so much success so early in his Presidency is more than just welcome news, it's outstanding news. Beyond that, success has a tendency to snowball. As more programs are successfully implemented while the nation continues to improve it will be easier and easier to push through more and bigger changes. The healthcare bill that you attack may not be perfect, but it was a solid foundation. Beyond that it was a breakthrough in the sense that now the government has finally taken sweeping and significant actions. With that out of the way the needed adjustments will have a lot easier time passing, as the stigma of not being possible is gone.

[zipplewrath]

7. Wasn't the intent

The point wasn't to compare them, but merely to point out that early success is no guarantee of the same point of view at the end of an administartion. Things seen as successes early on, can have a different view down the road. Carter's Olympic boycott was widely supported at the time, and is seen vastly less favorably now. NAFTA is seen a a serious problem on the Left, and to some extent on the Right. DADT and DOMA are issues that democrats campaign against. The repeal of Glass Stegal is now something that Clinton has to defend. For the genius that Greenspan was considered at the time, his reputation has taken a hit from events that post date his time in office.

We won't re-argue HCR, but it is notable that Krugman is already describing how it falls short of addressing healthcare costs, and it hasn't even been a year. Our retirees are being notified of changes in their healthcare, driven by the HCR bill, and they ain't happy. Those kinds of changes in attitude can happen fast on what appear at first blush to be considered "successes". And it can all disappear in one "Katrina moment" or terrorist attack. And as I say, LBJ had alot of success overshadowed greatly by vietnam. Things aren't going well in either Afghanistan or Iraq, and it's costing a boat load of money.

[NJmaverick]

8. Zipple, in the end politics is about getting things done and making things better for people

that is exactly what's happening right now. As long as the Dems continue to do that, even if not perfect, the public will reward them.

[zipplewrath]

10. Yup

They rewarded Reagan for doing that too.

[NJmaverick]

11. True, while we may not have agreed with the direction Reagan moved things

it is a good example of what I am talking about. I believe we are seeing President Obama providing a liberal version sort of thing.

[zipplewrath]

12. Except Reagan didn't accomplish many "conservative" things

The conservatisim of Reagan is a myth. He raised alot of taxes. The income taxes he cut were based upon a bill written by the democrat, Dan Rostenkowski. His foray into Lebanon (where they weren't allowed to have their weapons loaded). Never proposed a balanced budget. The golden asterisk.

I do believe we are seeing the "liberal" version of this. Nothing truly liberal, and alot of myth.

[NJmaverick]

13. I'm thinking you didn't live through the Reagan years or at least wasn't politically aware

Reagan did a lot to change the nation's fundamental views toward conservatism. Beyond that he successfully sold the nation on ideas like trickle down economics, he engaged in serious union busting, he also enacted dangerous deregulation, and so on. He did more for conservatism and moving the nation to the right than you fully realize or appreciate. Why to you think right wingers speak of Saint Gipper is such hushed tones?

[zipplewrath]

14. He did things

But what he did doesn't match the legend. His supposed conservative legislation was a myth. He didn't have much at all. I agree he sold the nation on the language of conservatism, well his version anywho. But he did very little that was conservative. It was pretty main stream republican at the time. Government grew, taxes went up. Spending went up. Go back and read the papers of the time. The conservatives were PISSED.

Which is a good metaphor for Obama. He talks a good game, but his legislation isn't all that liberal, and progressives are PISSED.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Greyhound]

23. Him don't like it when people call him on his BS, now do he?

:rofl:

[Scurrilous]

9. K & R

:thumbsup:

[RainDog]

15. good news

let's hope the repukes don't try to kill the financial reform by including some porn legislation...

and if they do, let's hope the democrats hold a press conference to call their asses on such actions.

[NJmaverick]

16. I think it's safe to say we haven't see the last of the GOP's dirty tricks

[MilesColtrane]

18. If the only thing they do is pass the Volker Rule, I'll consider it a success.

[clarence swinney]

19. GREAT UNRAVELING

kRUGMAN BOOK

EaSY TO READ--HIS ARTICLES IN NYT SINCE 1993.

He was warning as early as 2002 of Financial Tsunami.

[cbdo2007]

20. Good to see Obama and Congress getting SOME of the credit they deserve!

[NJmaverick]

21. Sadly Krugman really can't be considered main stream media

[spoony]

22. Lol, "it's an insult to DUers to post his trash here"

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x213295#213826