Back in the day of the Draft many people received deferments.

[Winterblues]

How do you rate those people for that? Cheney for one received five deferments and I have seen him scorned here for that fact. There have also been many Liberals that managed to stay out of the military during the Vietnam fiasco. Are they to be held to that same level of scorn? Or is it the "chicken hawk" aspect? Are Conservatives sophisticated enough to understand the difference?

[Lasher]

1. I was drafted in 1969 after I lost my student deferrment.

I don't blame anybody who managed to avoid military service, then or now. I would have done that if I could have. But Cheney, for example, is disgusting because he loves war - just as long as it's other people who are doing the actual sacrificing.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. Oh my

I think the mere act of being drafted would have put my into a panic.

Did you serve in Vietnam (if my asking isn't too farward)?

[Lasher]

8. No, I got lucky except for the being drafted part.

I was sent to South Korea and not Vietnam. I never saw combat.

So I was pretty lucky. Regardless, I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone.

[Oregone]

2. I know I sure as hell wouldn't of fought

Id either of gotten deferred or moved to Salt Spring Island in Canada, had I lived through the time

Normally its only a point of contention when someone is generally pro-war in their later life, but proved that they would not even commit to fighting in a national conflict deemed worthy enough to engage in (chickenhawk).

[pinboy3niner]

5. Many of them advocated for THAT war . . .

and for sending OTHER mothers' sons to suffer and sacrifice while they remained comfortably safe at home, advancing their education and their careers. Those are the ones who are truly despicable. :mad:

[Nuclear Unicorn]

3. I think people who opposed the war have more authenticity

when they did what they could to stay out of it. If it was legal so much the better.

And I suppose some people could be ambivalent about a war's justification or even support a war but not wish to interrupt their college studies or whatever they're doing to actually go fight in it.

I've always opposed Iraq and Afghanistan but I cared very much that my BF was a good soldier and he be able to get out safely...

...but I never felt the need to enlist to put myself in a position of moral authority to justify those affections.

I think the problem with Cheney et al is the lack of suffering that comes from military service left him without a clue as to what he was putting other people through and as such he lacked the motivation to find better ways to dealing with problems.

That's IF you want to cut him the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps power, ego and monied interests better explain things; I dunno.

I'm afraid Blumenthal's record escapes me. Has he chest-thumped much for Vietnam or the current wars?

[Lasher]

6. Blumenthal is a different story.

He got 5 deferrments, then joined the Marine Corps Reserve to evade active duty. That's fine. But he lied about his military service, saying he served in Vietnam. That's pretty bad.

[Oregone]

7. Why all the outrage?

The guy is a politician (which indicates immediate sociopathic tendencies and habitual dishonesty). If these type didn't have this outlet, they would throw a black robe on and molest children. Its really the better alternative

[Lasher]

10. That's as good as any other Blumenthal defense I've seen offered. n/t

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. Honest question:

How do we know he joined the Marine reserves to get out of deploying?

I'm asking 'cause I'm thinking it's kind of hard to guess people's motivations and even if you're in the reserves or whatever you can still deploy...right?

I'm no military expert. What little knowledge I have I sponged off the BF.

[Lasher]

12. Unlike today, it was rare for the National Guard & Reserves to be called up.

That's why Junior hid out in the Champagne Unit of the TANG. And that's why in many cases you had to know somebody before they would let you join the Guard or Reserves. They had way more applicants than they wanted because people didn't want to get drafted.

[pinboy3niner]

15. With a few rare exceptions, Reserves/NG were not used in VN

So getting into the Guard or Reserves at that time was a golden ticket--a guarantee you would not be called to deploy to Southeast Asia. For that reason, those units were filled up and had long waiting lists to get in. The exception, as Blumenthal pointed out, was the MARINE Reserves. No one needed to pull strings to join them LOL. For those seeking to avoid hardship and sacrifice, joining the Marine Reserves (and going through USMC boot camp) was NOT an option.

[Lasher]

20. I was almost drafted into the Marines.

When I was sworn in they asked for volunteers to go into the Marines. Crickets. Then they culled some of us from the flock. They picked the two guys to the right and left of me, among others. The Marines musta been pretty tough. The Army basic training was bad enough in those days.

[pinboy3niner]

21. At my induction station, it was different

There were a dozen or so long lines, and two uniformed Marines were there, eyeballing the lines and picking out the biggest guys and ordering them to go stand in one particular line.

My big brother, whom I idolized, had been in the Corps before Vietnam, so when the Marines weren't looking, I snuck into the "special" line. Soon one of them came over, and after looking at the other guys in line--and then down at me--he asked who told me to get in that line. I stammered out that the other Marine sent me there. But--after checking with his buddy--he kicked me out of the Marine line and I wound up in the Army.:)

I guess you could say that I, too, "almost" was drafted into the Marines.

:patriot:

[DefenseLawyer]

17. He said "served in Vietnam" instead of "served during Vietnam"

in a speech. I really don't think I am just being a partisan here to say that this barely rises to the level of "lying about his military service". If he had never actually been in the military and said that he was, if he made up stories of heroism or the horrors of combat or if he said "I was all for the war and volunteered to go to Vietnam" he would be specifically lying about the facts of his service record. There isn't any of that. There is that speech where he said in instead of during. There are also plenty of speeches where he plainly said "I never served in Vietnam". Righteous indignation is a wonderful thing, but man, I think it's just a stretch here.

[Smarmie Doofus]

13. More to the point:: has he said or done anything that would contribute......

>>>>I'm afraid Blumenthal's record escapes me. Has he chest-thumped much for Vietnam or the current wars?>>>>>

.... to stopping the war ( Iraq) either before or after it started?

The times story doesn't go there. Just a buncha quotes disparaging the 60's antiwar movement.... ( Slandering it, actually. If he never served in VN how could antiwar people have "spat" on him when he returned?)... and praising military people in general for being , well, military people.

He sounds... and I'm judging on the basis of what I read this morning in NYT - and ONLY on that ( since that's all I know about him).... like a bit of a sleazeball. A clever sleazeball... but a sleazeball.

[KamaAina]

11. For me, it's the chickenhawk aspect

but I seriously doubt that Faux-addled conservatroids are sophisticated enough to understand the difference.

[msedano]

14. period between involuntary draft and lottery draft

In 1968, the involuntary draft ended. The lottery draft would begin in 1969. In the meantime it was open season on formerly deferred draft-age males. That's when I got drafted, out of graduate school. Ditto a friend of mine also in graduate school. We were both registered Democratic Party. Not drafted that period was a Republican party friend, who happened to hold a high position in the student GOP apparatus. Odd, we thought. My drafted friend went to Vietnam and came out alive. I went to Korea and came out just fine. Our Republican pal continued in Grad school and got his Ph.D. without a hitch.

I'm damned if I wanted to go into the Army, but, as the old song goes, "my uncle Sam he said 'here I am'" so I put on the uniform and served honorably. No shame in accepting deferrments. No shame in joining the Reserves as a dodge. Claiming greater service than actually engaged borders on stolen valor. And that's exactly what that pendejo Richard Blumenthal has done. Claimed for himself greater involvement than he earned. He also earns the shame and scorn of voters in his state. And a vote for someone else or "none of the above."

[Lasher]

22. That sounds just like my story.

Drafted in May 1969, just before the lottery started. I've sometimes wondered if my father had any political enemies on that draft board.

[FBI_Un_Sub]

16. No problems with B'thal joining the USMC Reserve ....

at least his service was satisfactory --- he didn't "skate" like others (think "W").

I tried to find alternatives

• - Theology school (yes that was deferable). Picture me with a beard, a black coat and black fedors, ordering a bacon double cheeseburger.
  
• Teaching in a "disadvantaged" school -- that's what my brother in law did. Deferable.
  
• Getting a SECOND PhD :rofl:
  
• Joining the Reserve or National Guard --- they didn't reach me on "The List" until I was sworn into the USN and already on active duty.
  
• Tailoring my paper work at the recruiting office for a non-combat, in the US, bureaucratic assignment. That's what I did -- and it worked (-;

The VietNam era was a strange time.

And I NEVER claimed to have served in Viat Nam -- or to have been anything more then a paper shuffling, pencil pushing, computer jock, bureaucrat. My claim to fame was going from an absolute FORTRAN neophyte to a DBMS pro in record time.

[JVS]

18. I see nothing wrong with deferments, but when someone needs five deferments to do their bachelor's..

over the course of 6 years, that is not what deferments are for. Deferments are to prevent interfering with scholarship, not enable slacking.

[Mugweed]

19. It's the support and encouragement of more military action

I think what people dislike is not the aspect of avoiding the service, especially in the case of a bullshit "war" based on false pretenses (like everything after WWII that the US has been involved in). What people hate is when after you avoid serving in that bullshit "war", you do everything you can to create more bullshit "wars" under false pretenses. You can make yourself even more unpopular by questioning the patriotism of those who disagree with your call to "war" and their refusal to go fight and die for your false pretenses.

[Smarmie Doofus]

23. Exactly. But is that true of Blumenthal?

>>>>>What people hate is when after you avoid serving in that bullshit "war", you do everything you can to create more bullshit "wars" under false pretenses.>>>>>>

Where is he on Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan? Where HAS he been?

>>>>You can make yourself even more unpopular by questioning the patriotism of those who disagree >>>

He does do this in yesterday's NYT article. Implies that antiwar Americans routinely harrased returning VN vets.

That's a lie. A lie made more grievous by the implication that he was among the returning vets.