"The Constitution is based on the Ten Commandments".

[Manifestor_of_Light]

Today's encounter with a Fox news watcher.

My response:

Actually, no. The constitution comes from Jean Jacques Rousseau, what he wrote about 1760 as a result of the Enlightenment. That all men are created equal with certain unalienable rights given to them by their Creator, and that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This started before the American Revolution and the French Revolution."


Duhhhhhh.........

Tonight I got out my Great books and read The Social Contract by Rousseau.

He also told me I would not get to heaven worshiping buddha sitting and meditating.

My response: Buddha is not a god. You are wrong. He said he was enlightened, he is not a god, Buddhism is a philosophy. It's about compassion and doing the right thing.

This guy is a good carpenter working on my house, but he is also a sexist pig. He can't handle a well read female like me. It blows his mind. I want to see his head explode because it would be messy, memorable and spectacular.

I tell him stuff from history and he just can't deal with it. He's busy being a rigid control freak and "how is that workin for ya"? Not well. His wife has bad stress problems because of his crapola. I keep opening her mind.

He's been homeschooling the kids who are now in public school, in order to keep them in fear and handicap them in the real world, I guess.


I told him I will never be a christian again, god has not talked to me, and I am sick of people like him who love to pound it into me that Jeebus is the only way. I told him that there are millions of people with different opinions from him and that his way is not the only way.

:banghead: This is what I get for living in Redneckistan where the socially acceptable psychosis is Jesus Obsession.

[RandomThoughts]

1. Fear is bad.

Fear creates much lack of thinking and feeling. Also people were given a mind and heart to think and feel, I think people are suppose to think about what they chose to believe is best.

[Unvanguard]

2. There's not actually much evidence the Founding Fathers were influenced by Rousseau.

Locke and Montesquieu, however, without a doubt.

The most appropriate response to the statement you quote in your thread title is mocking laughter.

[Adsos Letter]

7. And English Country radicals...Trenchard and Gordon & Cato's letters come to mind

for significant portions of Revolutionary ideology. In fact, when it comes to the Constitution, rather than the DOI, James Madison read quite broadly and deeply.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

9. I'm sorry about that.

I'm gonna cry some more it's been a really rough day.
I never studied political science, but I have a law degree.

I knew it was The Enlightment and the idea of god given rights.

[Adsos Letter]

38. You're gonna' cry because people added info to your OP?

[formercia]

25. Freemasonry

Many of the 'Founding Fathers' were Freemasons.

They were very accepting of other monotheistic religions.

They were not founding a 'Christian Nation.'

The crazies are trying to rewrite History.

[Adsos Letter]

40. They are, indeed, trying to literally re-write history. Excellent resources...

for the founders and the sources of American (small "r") republican ideology:

Bernard Bailyn, The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution
http://www.amazon.com/Ideological-Origins-American-Revolution/dp/0674443020/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274376429&sr=1-1

Gordon S. Wood, The Creation of the American Republic: 1776-1787
http://www.amazon.com/1776-1787-Published-Omohundro-Institute-Williamsburg/dp/0807847232/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274376383&sr=1-1

Drew R. McCoy, The Elusive Republic: Political Economy in Jeffersonian America
http://www.amazon.com/Elusive-Republic-Political-Economy-Jeffersonian/dp/0807846163/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274376266&sr=1-1

One of the best works I have found on the founders and religion remains Frank Lambert's The Founding Fathers and the Place of Religion in America
http://www.amazon.com/Founding-Fathers-Place-Religion-America/dp/069112602X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274376309&sr=1-1

[formercia]

41. The Official position of the United States:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x537086

[SpiralHawk]

10. The Iroquois & Lenape ways were a huge influence on the founders

A fact widely ignored but absolutely true. The part of the Haudenausenee (Iroquois) and Lenape traditional native ways -- The Great Law of Peace -- that the founders ignored, was the voice of the women. Big mistake.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

19. The Iroquois Confederacy is often

ignored as the basis for the United States Government

[Odin2005]

27. Everything I read suggests independent development for both.

Democratic social systems emerge spontaneously all the time because of human nature being what it is, the popular notion that the Founders were influenced by the Iroquois is based on the same misconception as the notion that Democracy is a Western invention, the misconception being that Democracy was an "invention" that was "invented" as some particular time and place.

[SpiralHawk]

30. Not a misconception. A fact.

You are welcome to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

The US Congress passed a resolution in the 1990s, signed by Bush I, acknowledging the FACT that the founders were directly influenced by the Iroquois and Lenape. They don't claim to have 'invented' democracy as you state in the red herring you toss out -- only to have practiced a sophisticated form of it that was of great significance to the founders and the US Constitution.

Read the works of Gregory Schaaf. Learn some facts.

[Odin2005]

43. Ah, I didn't know that, sorry! I'll have to find that book!

:hi:

[H2O Man]

31. I'd suggest reading

the 1754 Albany Plan of Union; it led to the Articles of Confederation, then on to the US Constitution. Franklin's plan is, without even a hint of a question, based 100% on the Haudenosaunee form of government.

[aquart]

11. Well, if we were supposed to honor our father and our mother...

How could we be so rude to Great Britain?

[Vinnie From Indy]

20. That is simply not true!

Jean-Jacques Rousseau believed that authority lies with the people. In Rousseau's book The Social Contract, written in 1762, Rousseau states that (1) man is born free, (2) controls by a freely formed government are good, (3) consent to a form of governments means that the individual gives up self-interest in favor of the common good, and (4) when government is by the consent of the governed the people retain their rights.

Jefferson makes implicit reference to Rousseau when in the Declaration of Independence, he states that the King of England no longer has the consent of the colonists which he rules and therefore his power over them is nullified.

There is actually quite a bit of evidence that Rousseau was known to and influenced many involved with founding this nation.

[Unvanguard]

35. I've read Rousseau and I love him, I know what he said.

The problem is, the elements you point to that are common with the political philosophy of the Declaration of Independence are not exclusive to him: both the Founding Fathers and Rousseau were influenced by Locke.

Just going on the evidence of the Declaration of Independence, the Lockean influence, however, is far clearer than any influence from Rousseau. Most basically, Rousseau does not speak of, and is not very fond of, talk of "natural" rights: he thinks that once individuals participate in the social contract, their natural freedom is entirely subsumed into the social freedom of political participation. This is not at all the language of the Declaration, which instead echoes Locke in suggesting that governments are enshrined to protect pre-existing natural rights: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."

[Vinnie From Indy]

36. Cheers!

Thanks for posting!:)

[county worker]

3. Do you ever wonder why people who profess a faith in something are so insecure in that faith that

they have a need to constantly reinforce their fantasized religious selves by comparing it with the way you conduct your life? I would think that a person secure in their beliefs wouldn't care much that other people believe something different.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

4. Yeah and the Wed. night propaganda reinforcement sessions.

AKA Prayer meeting.

[notadmblnd]

5. Yeah, just like Glenn Beck says "The Constitution was written by the finger of God"

:sarcasm: :rofl:

[pnorman]

26. "the finger of God"

The MIDDLE FINGER, it sometimes appears!

[bullwinkle428]

28. My guess - the "finger of God" has something very special to say to Beck!!

:evilgrin:

[Vickers]

6. Ask where in the Constitution it says "Sabbath" or "holy" or "Lord" or

"God" or "slave" or "heaven" or "idol" or "sacrifice" or "unleavened" or "Abib" or "blood" or "donkey" or "Israel" or "wheat" or etc. etc.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

8. Maybe the Treaty of Tripoli will make his head explode.

Article 11 I think.


"As the United States is not in any sense a Christian nation....."

[Art_from_Ark]

12. Rousseau himself was influenced by John Locke

Locke was a British philosopher of the 17th century who was a big advocate of the social contract and separation of Church and State, among other things.

[Mojeoux]

13. Don't forget that the Shellfish Eaters

Should burn in hot buttered hell.

(Deuteronomy)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

16. Shit, kill your son if he's disobedient.

I know the bible better than this asshole.
And he didn't know about all the badass cruel stuff that Jebus said in the NT.
He said he would send folks to hell that didn't like his preaching.

Some jeebus.

[Art_from_Ark]

14. *Deleted due to computer duplication*

:argh:

[Art_from_Ark]

15. *Deleted due to computer duplication*

Or should that be "triplication", since this was the third identical post?

[Scuba]

17. Ask him how that "prayin' for Peace" thing is working' out

[no_hypocrisy]

18. The Establishment Clause and the No Religious Test for Office are in The Ten Commandments?

I better go back and read'em again.

[patrice]

21. Hmmmm, wonder what that prohibition against covetousness would do to Capitalism, not to

mention prohibitions against things like False gods and Killing.

[Odin2005]

22. LOL, that's funny. I know a Catholic woman who considers the Buddha a saint.

And she meditates, too. Heck, I'm a frakking ATHEIST and I think The Buddha was a great teacher.

I'm fortunate that I haven't run into the "Constitution is based on the Bible" crap around here.

[ThomWV]

23. 2nd Commandment: Thou shalt be armed.

[MrScorpio]

24. I figure that the Bill of Rights and the Ten Commandments are not compatible at all

Bill of Rights: Worship as you please and the govt. has no say

Ten Commandments: I am the Lord, Thy God and you shall worship no other gods than me.


Pretty cut and dried.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

39. Mark Twain figured that out.

"you shall have no other gods before me".

You could have a committee of Gods. It didn't say he has to be the only one.

I still don't know why a graven image is inherently bad, since people need visual representations of things to look at while praying or meditating.

The Hindus of course think of the statue as having the god inside, so they offer it food, place clothing and necklaces on it.

But pictures or stained glass windows? I don't know why that would be inherently bad.

That's one of the criticisms of Catholics is all their statues. However, I think the multiplicity of saints and the Virgin Mary as the Goddess make it far more interesting than:

God with a Dick + Jesus with a Dick + Holy Ghost with a dick = The All Male Gawd Show

[phasma ex machina]

50. George Washington currently reigns as god of American Babylon

The powers-that-be put "in god we trust" on their currency and painted the "Apotheosis of Washington" in the dome of the Capitol to proclaim their god. The pantheon of American Babylon shows a seated Washington draped in the purple surrounded by pagan gods.



:puke:




OTOH, Pilgrims meant the god of Abraham when they proclaimed "In the name God Amen." The first words of the first governing document in the new world - the Mayflower Compact.



:loveya:

[harun]

29. Myriad of influences in the Constitution. I do think it is important

to stress the social contract aspect of it to stubborn RW'rs though. Especially the fact that the power of the constitution is that people agree on it. If two people give no value to it, and don't agree on it, it is a piece of paper. If we agree on it, to abide by it, it has power.

[hobbit709]

32. Idiots that say that can't even name all 10, much less live by them.

[ThoughtCriminal]

33. Easy reply - - ask "Which part?"

Wait for the inevitable Palinist answer "All of it!"

The start asking for specifics. For real fun, ask them to name more than four of the commandments (most can at best get two or three). Or explain more than four Amendments from the Bill of Rights. When they can only remember the 2nd Amendment, ask which part of the Ten Commandments that came from (frankly, Gun Worship seems to violate the First Commandment).

[Bill McBlueState]

34. I think you could really only say that

if you hadn't read either document. The US Constitution and the Hebrew ten commandments just don't have much (any?) content in common.

[ismnotwasm]

37. Is he being stupid naturally

Or by choice?

I have a friend who is a young earth believin' pastor. Neither he or his wife are stupid, and they try to do 'good works' in the rough neighborhood we share. (His wife, who is an Nurse practitioner, was once allowed to present a biology paper from a 'creationist' POV) But they believe some crazy stuff, and go out of their way to believe it. This has to be either some sort of choice, or shared mental condition.

As we all have grown older, I've noticed that he's become strange and a bit bitter. My husband talks to him more than I do, but it still isn't very often. I don't talk to him about anything but our kids, gardening and the weather.

Good for you for talking with the wife.

[nichomachus]

42. Actually, the 10 Commandments

Were cribbed directly from the existing Hittite suzerainty treaties. When the Hittites would take over an area, they would draw up these documents telling the new subjects who the rulers were and how the subjects would behave. "I am (whoever) king of the Hittites. I saved you from the (other guys). You shall have no other king than me. You shall..... You shall not..." and so in.

The Israelites didn't even make an effort to spruce it up. They just took the Hittite treaties and changed some of the names and commands. The form is exactly the same.

The commandments didn't come down any mountain written on tablets of stone.

[Dr Morbius]

45. I'm given to understand there were once more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk

[Manifestor_of_Light]

44. Progress! Not in opening his mind though.

I finally got my BP down enough that I could sleep after one totally sleepless night and 2)Haven't spoken to the idiot in two days. I don't write the checks, DH does.

Oh and DH pays his wife separately so she can have her own money. She knows he's fulla shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Add this book to your collection

Deer Hunting with Jesus by Joe Beagant... it will open your eyes, if they are not open yet, as to the christian god delusion. Like you he is a lib stuck there... difference is, he left for a while and like got a college degree. Believe it or not that makes a lot of difference.

[mkultra]

47. Oklahoma?

sure sounds like my state to me.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

49. Nope, East Texas. Just as bad.

My Congress Cretin is Joe Barton. He thought he had stumped the Secretary of Energy because the Secretary of Energy was nice enough to not tell Barton he was a complete idiot when Barton didn't understand plate tectonics and continental drift. Chu was telling him how that oil got under Alaska in a Congressional hearing.

He thinks everybody in his district thinks just like he does. And to the North of us we got Louie Goomer the Tumor, as I call him.

[Nailzberg]

48. As a Yoo-Yoo myself, I bang my head against a wall at the whole Christian nation arguement.

Many of the great minds among our founding fathers were Unitarians, not bible thumpers as the right likes to tell themselves.