Why do some people insist that undocumented aliens get "government benefits"?

[arbusto_baboso]

They do NOT get welfare money. To get that, you need to present a birth certificate, social security card and ID, or a legal permanent resident card in place of the birth cert.

The CHILDREN of undocs who are born in this country can get welfare. But then again, THEY are CITIZENS!

Undocs also don't qualify for any but emergency Medicaid (and personally I'm okay with that; epidemics don't care who is a citizen), and that only if their kids are citizens.

Ditto for Food Stamps.

Undocs also can't get social security payouts, even though most of them work under false SS #'s and pay into the system the entire time they work here.

So what are the magical "benefits" undocs are getting from our government?

[Kweli4Real]

1. Because ...

It plays into their "I don't want them here because they're stealing from us" meme; which is far more palatable than "I don't want them here because they're not white."

[arbusto_baboso]

2. Well, since there's no other explanation that makes sense....

I'm inclined to agree with you.

Another interesting immigration fact: Mexico is the nation that has the largest number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. Do you know which country is 2nd? Ireland.

Funny, but I don't see much protest about "cloverbacks" stealing our jobs and riding the gravy train, etc., etc....

[jp11]

6. The anti Irish movment has been done to death.

Way back when.

See Far and Away, wait forget that, see Gangs of New York.

[arbusto_baboso]

8. Right. And we now have someone MORE different, MORE "alien" to scapegoat.

[atreides1]

19. The problem with that

Is the fact that some of those Mexican illegals can probably trace their lineage back to ancestors who lived in the South West, way before the Irish became a problem.

[arbusto_baboso]

23. Truly ironic, yes.

[blondeatlast]

27. But damn if history don't stop repeating itself. I'm Irish, I support open borders,

and, well, welcome to DU.

I think. No beer for you yet, though.

[ejpoeta]

21. irish look more like 'us'.... easier to tell the latinos from the rest of us.

but i don't think they are going to be pulling people over who look like illegal irish immigrants.

[Gormy Cuss]

36. Where did you get that statistic?

That hasn't been true in decades.

Starting in the 1990s the immigration levels from Mexico and Central America increased exponentially and far outpaced immigration from Europe. The Department of Homeland Security's Office of Immigration Statistics in 2005 had the following estimates by country of origin:
Mexico, 5.9 million
El Salvador, 470 K
Guatemala, 370 K
India, 280 K
China, 230 K
follow in descending order by Korea, the Phillipines, Honduras, Brazil, and Vietnam.

Note that Ireland didn't even make the list. In fact, in a 1996 government estimate Ireland placed 17th on the list of countries ranked according to the number of estimated unauthorized immigrants.
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/illegal.pdf


That said, I have no doubt that if Irish comprised the argest group today there wouldn't be the same kind of obsession with illegal immigration.

[kiva]

40. Estimate 50,000 Irish, courtesy of the LA Times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States

The illegal immigrant population of the United States in 2008 was estimated by the Center for Immigration Studies to be about 11 million people, down from 12.5 million people in 2007. According to a Pew Hispanic Center report, in 2005, 57% of illegal immigrants were from Mexico; 24% were from other Latin American countries, primarily from Central America;<3> 9% were from Asia; 6% were from Europe; and 4% were from the rest of the world.

Since an estimated 81% of illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central/South America, I'm not surprised that we don't much worry about the 50,000 Irish.

[Freddie Stubbs]

3. Don't undocumented children recieve education?

:shrug:

[arbusto_baboso]

5. You'd prefer they didn't?

They'd be a bigger drain if they turned into illiterate criminals. And lack of literacy is one of the major contributing factors to one's becoming a criminal.

[stray cat]

16. The poster stated the facts - no opinion in the post at all - just education as to facts

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. And what would they do all day while all the kids who were born here are in school?

Stay home and read books? LOL

[BrklynLiberal]

9. mainly in spelling

[arbusto_baboso]

12. Ouch!

:toast:

[JuniperLea]

17. Their number is a drop in the bucket...

The Urban Institute estimates that 65,000 undocumented students—that is, children born abroad who are not U.S. citizens or legal residents—graduate from U.S. high schools each year.

http://professionals.collegeboard.com/guidance/financial-aid/undocumented-students

And that all 50 states, and from all countries.

[old mark]

4. Same reason they used to talk about Welfare Cadillacs and Obama

being from Kenya. Racist code...THEY KNOW what they mean....

mark

[backscatter712]

53. Beat me to it. It's the Southern Strategy all over again. n/t

[gratuitous]

7. Because they don't know any better?

And they're counting on their listeners not knowing, either. So they can whip up the hate, which is always so much easier than having an informed discussion toward a solution. Oh, and there's the racism angle, too. But a scared, angry person can be cajoled and bullied far more readily than a calm, knowledgeable person.

[arbusto_baboso]

10. I've tried educating people and they don't want to hear it.

I've even had immigrant haters call me a liar. Doesn't matter that I actually work in social services and know the regs. Apparently, I just want to "protect my job" (FWIW - I am a veteran and once had a lucrative accountant job. I do what I do now because I believe in it.).

But all the regs are right on line for anyone to see.

And we are trained to see forgeries. I've caught several.

[Progressive_In_NC]

11. In NC the process works as such (caused my aunt to quit her job)

A nice young lady comes into the Raleigh SS office at 9:00 am with three beautiful children. The children are American Citizens she says and presents some cursory documentation and my aunt processes all three kids for all benefit programs for which they qualify.

At 1:30 a different lady comes in with the same three children (same toys, same stroller, same stickers on the shirt). The lady says the three are American citizens and need benefits. Documents are presented with different names, and all three kids are processed for benefits.

At 4:30 yet another young lady brings the same kids into the office and gives the same story.

My aunt goes to her supervisor who tells her just to process the paperwork and don't rock the boat. That scenario happens several times a week here in town. Recently, the same kids came in six times over two days with different ladies and different docs. Her supervisor tells her not to rock the boat and go ahead and process the papers as presented.

[arbusto_baboso]

13. Sorry but that sounds like total BS to me.

I work in the system. Incidents like that would get all of NC's federal welfare funds stripped, or at least penalized heavily.

[Th1onein]

15. What a load of bullshit!

Do you REALLY expect us to buy that story? Come ON!

[Progressive_In_NC]

33. Believe what you will.....

I'm telling you what I was told by a rson I trust greatly who spent over 25 years working in the system. boldness behind a keyboard is a wonderful thing.

[Kerrytravelers]

22. Hmmm... do you believe in Welfare Mothers driving Cadalliacs?

This seems like one of those stories. I'm not buying it.

But, let's just pretend that your "aunt's" supervisor said this... so, we have to treat all immigrants like thieves because someone abuses the system? :shrug: I think not.

[Progressive_In_NC]

30. Not at all, there are no welfare mothers driving caddies

my parents get gov't benefits (my dad is disabled) and I love the programs. You won't see me bashing them in any of my posts except for trouble with medicare/medicaid in NC regarding my dad. That was finally resolved for him as well, it just took time.

[Kerrytravelers]

34. So, then why post that story above? It is just another reincarnation of the same story.

:shrug:

[Luminous Animal]

37. Ahahahahaha!!!!

Social services do process people during an office visit and this is confirmed on the NC website.
You have the right to:
# Receive your Food and Nutrition Services (or be notified that you are not eligible for the program) within 30 days after you turn in your application.
# Receive Food and Nutrition Services within 7 days if you are eligible for emergency benefits.

Second,
"Citizenship/Immigration Status
Each member of the FNS (Food and Nutritions Services) household must be a U. S. Citizen or an immigrant admitted to the United States under a specific immigration status. Citizens and eligible immigrants must also meet all other FNS eligibility requirements to receive assistance. "

http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dss/foodstamp/index.htm#citizen

[Catherina]

39. Lol. Was this before or after

you busted the couple that was driving up in a $50,000 car and using food stamps to buy steaks for their dogs?

[blondeatlast]

42. Oh. My. goodness. I am laughing so hard I have a cramp now.

Lovely catch; kudos on that one! :rofl:

[Catherina]

48. Surprisingly, it was the first thing that popped up

I couldn't stop laughing either.

Your sig used to be one of my favorite songs. I know the cost of stamps now!

[Progressive_In_NC]

52. Those folks weren't welfare queens or kings they were quite wealthy

I was 15, I'm 35 now, those folks got what was coming to them. They spent some time in jail from what I understand. Turns out the man was buying the food stamps from poor folks for money at a huge discount and then using them to buy steaks for their two dogs, among other things.

[blondeatlast]

41. My compliments to the supervisor for rejecting the "they all look alike" bullshit. nt

[KonaKane]

43. This sounds like a 100% cock n bull story.

Sorry, it just does. I've worked in the public sector before and the likelihood of your story just, well, doesn't pass the sniff test.

[blondeatlast]

49. See post 39 and be prepared to giggle uncontrollably. nt

[Progressive_In_NC]

54. I'm still confused at to what all the fuss is?

You didn't grow up in rural NC did you?

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. LOL!

What a pile of horse pucky.

[blondeatlast]

50. See post 39 and be prepared to giggle uncontrollably. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Yep saw that

Boys and girls, repeat after me: AGENDA.

[Progressive_In_NC]

55. really, two posts over four years about the subject equals an agenda?

take it as you will I guess, I just have to remember that folks who visit this site are true cynics.

[stray cat]

14. Free education for children whether the kids were born here

same I suspect goes for ER care. I agree with doing both - but facts have to be stated correctly regardless of opinion. The problem is people talk without their words having any basis in reality - facts trump opinions or words.

[arbusto_baboso]

31. Facts, yes. But hardly relevant.

Educating children is done more for the benefit to society than the benefit to the individual. Yes, we SELL it as an individual benefit, but the way education is administered belies that selling point.

Same, I expect, for ER care.

[ejpoeta]

18. i have to think these folks never applied for assistance. i have told them

as i myself have been on assistance of some form or another over the years. and every one.... be it 'welfare' including food stamps, medicaid, cash assistance or HEAP which is help with utilities, it asks if you are a citizen or not and you have to prove you are a citizen or here legally. THe only thing i think that one may get regardless of status is something for pregnant women... PCAP?? i don't rmember what it's called. but anything else definitely requires proof. pisses me off when my family members keep saying it.

[arbusto_baboso]

26. Ironically, I had someone with a daughter on welfare make such assertions to me.

He was one of those "damn the welfare queens" types, too.

Like Rand Paul, it's just a problem for them when someone else is getting exactly what they or their family are getting...

[ejpoeta]

38. it's different when they know them. i point out that i am on family health plus

two of my kids get medicaid and my oldest gets child health plus. I am also on WIC currently. We got HEAP this year also and found out that they expect us to sign up every year, though the past couple of years we felt that we didn't need it and it would be better to let someone else get the help. but i digress. in the past we have been on full blown assistance.... where they make you go out and look for a job and make you 'work it off' too. i make sure to mention it any time one of my family members goes off about "those people". they stop and you can see their mind trying to rethink retool or something. then they tell me how it's different. we pay taxes. we pay for it and are simply getting what we have paid for. we ALL pay for it. and that means people who don't even have friggin access to it. and it means the people who are getting assistance as well. they don't stay on it forever the vast majority. they pay into the system. and you don't know anything about them. you just want to blame all those black people living in the projects for all your problems. it's always different when it's them.

[leftstreet]

20. Because working class people are losing ground & think everyone's on the dole

Pretty much

[ejpoeta]

24. and they can't seem to do anything about the representatives on the dole....

so go after defenseless people.

[leftstreet]

25. Yep. Look DOWN the ladder and bitch, never UP

It's sad

[lumberjack_jeff]

28. Because they do.

Whether or not they should get a specific kind of benefit from the government is a different question. Some they can, (education) and some they can't (social security).

[Bonhomme Richard]

29. Most pay social security that they will.........

never collect.

[arbusto_baboso]

32. Precisely. Arguing that they are a "drain" is simply an ignorant non-starter.

If anything, they are keeping social security afloat.

[Spike89]

35. Education, but to be fair, they pay for much of that

It isn't huge (the number of undocumented children attending public school) and the true cost is very hard to determine (if a teacher goes from 30 to 32 students, they get the same pay...likewise, dropping the undocumented students won't save much money). However, the point is that the vast majority of education spending is from local- and state-raised taxes such as sales tax, property tax, etc. which are certainly paid by undocumented people.

[pampango]

44. Rush tells us they're bankrupting our country. What more do we need?

I'm sure they are the cause of our problems. ;)

[damntexdem]

47. Well, they do get to pay taxes -- just don't get the benefits of doing so.

E.g., pay FICA taxes on their wages, but will not get Social Security.