Should private businesses have the right to segregate?

[MrScorpio]

http://www.kfsm.com/sns-news-poll,0,2210543,post.poll?status=voteplaced

The vote is disturbingly even

[county worker]

1. I remember taking part in a civil rights march in Yellow Springs Ohio in

1963. I was a junior in high school. A barber there named Gegnar (sp?) refused to cut the hair of African Americans. After the march we went to a little store to buy a soda. They would not serve us and we were white.

It is a hard thing for me to see a poll like this more than 40 years later. Racism didn't die, it was always lying just under the crust of our thinking.

[Selatius]

2. Lack of education has caused this result.

It's one thing for the federal government to come in and enforce civil rights laws, but it is an entirely different war as far as completely educating a population on the damages that segregation and hate inflict on a society. We did the former, not the latter, not yet anyway. Until the lessons are entirely internalized and incorporated in our daily lives, things will never change.

[county worker]

3. Until parents stop teaching hate it won't stop.

Racism is getting more respectable and it is the current generation of young adults who were taught hate by their parents who now pass it on to their kids.

[reggie the dog]

29. Where I am from in the suburbs of Chciago racism is unacceptable

I am 31 and racism is nearly non existant in my generation in chicago compared to the generation of our parents. there are still racist fools but less than in the gerneration of our parents. i dont know what it is like in other areas of the country but racism is out in illinois

[Whisp]

4. yah, lets segregate old fuck white right wing nuts.

for this even to be a question is vomitus.

that stupid Rand, but the stupider media to give him air. whatever.
hellenahandbasket, here we come.

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. Small Sample at 700 votes but disturbing

You can only vote once on this one so I'm giving your poll a kick and nom.

To me the Supreme Court pointed out long ago that this is not a popularity contest.

[SwampG8r]

6. sure they do

"management reserves the right to refuse service for any reason"
you cannot tell me you have never seen that sign
the keyword is PRIVATE
private businesses can conduct themselves as they wish
i a private citizen have the right to patronize another business if i so choose
that is what freedom means

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. The poll said SEGREGATE not refuse service

YOU GO TO THE BACK OF THE BUS

[SwampG8r]

8. the ride is better in the back

wouldnt refusal of service based on race be segregation?
i will keep your seat back here warm for you

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[reggie the dog]

31. so if you live in the countryside and run the only pharmacy for

say fifty miles around or more you should have the legal right to not serve native americans, latinos, asians and blacks????

[Ichingcarpenter]

43. Rosie Parks?

You are not, but you probably don't even know who she was or don't care.

Sad......very sad

[CreekDog]

10. No they can't --sign or no sign

The Civil Rights Act made this illegal.

[SwampG8r]

12. the signs are in every bar and restaurant

i have worked in restaurants for 34 years and they are up and enforced
if the owner wants you out he can toss you

[CreekDog]

16. no, not based on race

that's what the OP is about.

that was what the sit-ins at Southern Woolworth counters were about.

a sign does not make something legal.

[SwampG8r]

19. the sign i noted

makes the refusal of service to anyone legal

private business is the subject
as i said above they have the right to have the customers they want and i have the right to not be one of them by going elsewhere

[CreekDog]

21. Which is law, that sign or the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

you tell me which will take precedent if that establishment discriminates based on race and gets taken to court?

tell me whether that sign will trump the law?

Title II
Outlawed discrimination in hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce; exempted private clubs without defining the term "private."

[SwampG8r]

24. and with the wording on the sign

how can you prove the refusal of service is race based?
the sign is and it is used

[Luminous Animal]

26. Plenty of people have proven racial discrimination based on observable pattern.

And, they've gone forward with successful lawsuits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny%27s#Racial_discrimination_lawsuits

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-97993.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131897,00.html

That sign is not a shield for bigots.

[Selatius]

34. That's rather easy. The Civil Rights Division conducts undercover stings on places like this.

They could easily send in a group of white people and see the results. Then, they send in a second pool of black people and see the results. This is how it has been historically done. If the result of the tests indicate disparate treatment, the business can lose its license until the situation is corrected. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission does the same thing.

[CreekDog]

42. you are now changing your argument completely, what's the point in talking with you?

this thread and your response said that the sign made it okay to discriminate on the basis of race.

i said that's illegal.

you are now saying, "well, it's only illegal if we can prove it's by race."

then you admit it's illegal, but not if you don't get caught.

i'm going to stop arguing with you so i can stop wasting my time.

[Lyric]

22. How are you defining "private"?

Because there are two potential definitions here. The first is a truly PRIVATE business/club/organization--as in, it's not open to the public. Yes, the KKK can discriminate based on race. So can any other completely private club or organization, just as long as they are NOT open to the public. And of course, private homeowners can discriminate based on race (EXCEPT in terms of housing and rentals). If you cannot enter a private club/organization/business/home without being a pre-screened and pre-approved "member" or "guest", then yes, that private place can discriminate.

However, a privately OWNED business that is accessible to the general public is NOT allowed to discriminate based on race. While the KKK can discriminate based on race, Wal-Mart cannot. An amusement park (like Six Flags) cannot. A grocery store cannot. A gas station cannot. These places are open to the public, meaning that anyone can walk in and/or buy a ticket to come in. Federal law prohibits racial discrimination within all publicly-accessible places of business and recreation. It doesn't matter how many signs you post--if you're caught discriminating against a protected class of people, then you've broken federal law and you're in deep shit. Signs do NOT trump federal law.

[Wednesdays]

35. Also, the signs "Swamp" referred to...

"Management reserves the right to refuse service for any reason" -- those signs target behaviors, not specific groups of people. IOW, if you act up, they can toss you out--not because you're black or latino.

[izzybeans]

37. It appears "swamp" wants to reserve the right to refuse service based on his prejudices

otherwise he would understand that distinction. Instead he is parroting the long-standing white separatist line on this issue.

[MattBaggins]

41. I can put up a sign that says I have the right to kick you in the balls

and I will be charged with a crime if I follow through with it.

Just because some one puts it on a sign does not make it so.

[aquart]

27. "I can do what I want! It's a free country!"

Your definition of freedom hasn't altered since you were eight?

[reggie the dog]

32. you can do what you want

so long as you do not infringe upon the rights of others, it is my right to smoke my homegrown weed for example...

[reggie the dog]

30. for any reason is trumped by

the civil rights act and the supreme court saying you cant discriminate, gays are trying to be included in that interpretation as they should be to be protected against discrimination.

[Toots]

40. The Law states otherwise.

If it is open to the general public then they must allow any person unless it is something like no shoes or shirt..

[EFerrari]

9. We're living through a wave of @ssholery.

And it is disturbing, agreed.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Define Segregate...

I assume it means racial...and most definitely I'm against any business discriminating based on the color of one's skin. However, some businesses definitely segregate...try getting a trim at a beauty parlor or try getting a copy of a Koran at a christian book store. Just pointing out there are many types of segregation that exist...and this is a point I've heard "libertarians" use as to why they are against any "discrimination laws". The racial version of man on dog...

Cheers...

[Solly Mack]

14. Wow....that's just....wow.

WTF?

I wish the fuckers going back-wards would hurry up & get to the ooze stage so I can wash them away with the water hose.

[SeattleGirl]

15. Let's just hope they turn into eco-friendly ooze. n/t

[Solly Mack]

17. !! .....Chances are they wouldn't. :(

Poisonous in human form as they are...

[K8-EEE]

20. Wait where's the answer that starts "It's interesting that...."

Yes or no, how is Rand Paul supposed to do THAT?

[Bluebear]

23. The vote is disturbingly even because this nation is fracturing into 2 pieces.

[Lyric]

38. Yep.

Because SOME assholes just can't deal with living in a nation where, in the future, they will no longer have special rights--a.k.a., the special rights of the White Heterosexual Christian majority to be treated better both under the law and in society than everyone else. These people aren't really afraid that others will get "special rights", even though that's what they claim. They're afraid that they're going to LOSE their own.

[upi402]

25. They should be able to eat their workers if hungry

and the families clean the mess.

Gob Less merica

:eyes:

End corporate person-hood now dammit! They aren't criminally responsible, don't have to follow laws, and the owners' property and freedom is protected and exempt. Unfair to any reasonable person.

[reggie the dog]

28. its a paper from arkansas, what do you expect

there is a reason i avoid the deep south like a plague when i go on vacations back in my home country of the usa....

[no_hypocrisy]

33. Let me re-phrase the question:

My friends are Caucasian and have adopted an African American daughter. Should a restaurant force them to dine in two separate rooms, one for "whites", the other for "blacks" which not only is demeaning for their daughter, but she will also be alone without her parents in that restaurant.

[ThomWV]

36. Only if that business is not licensed to operate in the state or pays no taxes for public systems

Only if no road goes to the business.

Only if the business is not connected to a public sewage or water system.

Only if no publicly subsidized or regulated power is provided to the business.

Only if the business exists on another planet ....

[Chemical Bill]

39. It is.... n/t