We the people" also are the corporations--all sizes.

[Skidmore]

I think we've gotten stuck in a rut here with the notion that "we the people" exist only as such when we speak of government. However, we forget that business entities of all stripes are also made up of "we the people." We provide the labor and the management, and elect the officials who scribe the laws and regulations affecting business. Quite often "we the people" stand by silently and watch wrongdoing and only cry out when a disaster happens. Whistleblowing comes at a cost in this nation--your career/job and income. I've been a whistleblower and understand full well the dynamics, including the experience of coworkers who, even when wrongdoing was exposed, still averted their eyes and kept their mouths shut. SO when "we the people" is invoked, I cringe with the awareness that the government and the corporations are flip sides of the same coin--and we are present on both sides.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Corporations are feudal fiefdoms. You have few if any rights within the organization.

People stand by silently because they have to pay their bills. Our government is 'ours' only to the extent that the rules protecting our rights with respect to that government remain in force. At this point in time I view the government as entirely controlled by large corporations, our rights mostly paper and no substance, and our position with respect to the government not much different from our position with respect to the corporations we work for. I guess I agree with your thesis, but from the opposite perspective.

[Skidmore]

3. Using your analogy of feudal fiefdoms, the sovereignty of the nation

derives from the consent and participation of the people in its governance. "The people" do not exist outside of these constructs as a separate entity. "The people," as such, have participated in stripping away rights and powers guaranteed by the Constitution. Efficacy still is a by product of individual will and when too many individuals cede the responsibility that comes with free will, then efficacy and power is lost as well.

[mmonk]

2. Corporate charters aren't people and were never intended to be.

These large corporations have more representation than "we the people" do because they control the political process through their money. Their only fiduciary care is for their stockholders and the price per share, not this country's interests. They are the East India Company of our time and that company's relationship with the government of that time was what the real tea party was about and unjust practices favoring big over small through their influence was what we rebelled against.

[Skidmore]

4. "We" are not "rebelling" against anything now.

We are whining a lot along the political spectrum. But actual rebellion is not occurring. People are certainly screaming and pulling their hair and gnashing their teeth plenty. Public displays of discontent do not a rebellion make. I don't see anyone willingly sacrificing anything for a true fight.

[mmonk]

7. I know.

The original rebellion is what I was talking about. People today don't quite get it and the "tea party" is rebelling in the opposite direction.

[xchrom]

5. Americans have turned out very peculiar.

Look at the French or German workers - they may not always
be successful - but whenk they know they are being screwed
they take to the streets -- they strike -- they make fuss on
their own behalf.

Americans blame each other.

[Skidmore]

6. Exactly.

[Selatius]

8. America was built on the idea that different people can come together for common cause.

Many European countries are generally culturally homogeneous, Sweden for example. The US is a mish-mash of different groups of people with different cultural beliefs and different histories. Of course, this may lead to the mentality of blaming the other group for the problems of themselves. At the worst, you see one region of the country blaming other regions of the country for national problems. Regionalism has and still is a cultural current inside the US despite the conclusion of the Civil War.

Joel Garreau wrote a book detailing the different cultural identities within North America. This was his result: