Obama isn't to blame

[BeFree]

But if he stays cozy with BP he is making two big mistakes.
Big political mistake, and a big environmental mistake.

He knows politics well enough and should and change course very soon.

However, it is evident Obama doesn't understand environmental policy very well.
If he did, we wouldn't be waiting on him to act, he would have already acted.

[seabeyond]

1. no, he isnt. i heard npr someone say whitehouse kicking themselves in arse

they didnt realize how much bush allowed fed reg to lapse and become lax. that they should have immediately put together gorups to investigate tehse areas. lesson learned. now get arse out there are tighten regs....

we knew the pres that stepped in had a mess. we knew it was a huge mess. 10 or more huge deals were pruiority number one issue. it is what it is. and on bushco

[G_j]

4. before proposing new drilling

some homework was certainly in order,

no excuse for that

[seabeyond]

5. i am sure they did do the homework and not sure that the issue would have presented itself. nt

[kenny blankenship]

14. Shill, baby, shill!!!

[seabeyond]

24. grow up, baby, grow up. nt

[greencharlie]

2. wrong. hypocritical...

if this was BUSH, he'd be getting flamed 24/7...

and he'd deserve it...

Personally... and I shall put on my flame-proof suit... I think Obama is a cold human being. Cool, slick... intelligent but I don't believe there's heart in there. I don't sense compassion or emotion other than political byproduct.

EPIC FAIL.

[seabeyond]

6. no.... he wouldnt. example. 9/11 had the info that something was going to happen and ignored

it. the nation as a whole stood up and did NOT point the finger but further, supported his ass

obama did not have the information. this was bushco failure on keeping the regulations tight

[hughee99]

18. An excellent example is 9/11

After 9 months in office, * got a PDB about a month before the attack, no specifics, names, locations or dates, and after the initial support he got from all corners, we FUCKING HAMMERED him on it... and he deserved it.

According to this story, Obama had this information last fall with roughly 6 months lead time and a finite number of offshore drilling sites to be inspected, and the legal authority to inspect any of them at any time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/03/noaa-warned-interior-was_n_561615.html?view=print
National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration officials last fall warned the Department of Interior, which regulates offshore oil drilling, that it was dramatically underestimating the frequency of offshore oil spills and was dangerously understating the risk and impacts a major spill would have on coastal residents.

NOAA is the nation's lead ocean resource agency, and the warnings came in its response to a draft of the Obama Administration's offshore oil drilling plans. The comments were Web-published in October by the whistle-blowing group, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

But NOAA's views were largely brushed aside as Obama went ahead and announced on March 31 that he would open vast swaths of American coastal waters to offshore drilling -- a plan now very much in doubt as a blown-out BP well in the Gulf of Mexico spews out an estimated 200,000 gallons of oil daily, for the 13th straight day.

The memo, which NOAA Administrator Jane Lubchenco wrote was based on the agency's "extensive science, management and stewardship expertise related to oceans, coasts and marine ecosystem" recommended that Interior conduct "a more complete analysis of the potential human dimensions of offshore production."

[greencharlie]

facts, facts, facts... don't give the Kool-Aid drinkers facts. nt

[BeFree]

7. Like I say...

...he doesn't understand the environmental mistake he is making.

He doesn't have the necessary environmental heart or understanding. And no one around him groks it either. He backed down on global warming, and opened up the drill baby drill cookbook and read a few lines on camera. He just doesn't get it.

America, as we know it, is not sustainable.

[CrispyQ]

37. "America, as we know it, is not sustainable."

"America, as we know it, is not sustainable."

A truth most Americans don't want to face. In fact, they will believe anything before they face that truth. Many of them are on this board.

[Arkana]

8. Really now

If you think this then you obviously didn't pay attention to anything the man did during the campaign, read any of his books, or read any of the behind-the-scenes accounts of how he is with his family.

[greencharlie]

10. it's ALL fluff... political creationism. The proof is in the Gulf. nt

[Arkana]

13. How exactly did you divine this absolute truth?

Obama doesn't have a magic wand he can wave to make all the oil go away and he can't hang BP's executives from a tree at high noon. All he can do is try to make sure they pay out the nose to fix this and then institute more regulations to minimize the chances of this ever happening again.

[greencharlie]

19. not true... you don't WAIT and watch BP flail...

you remove BP from the site and YOU fix it.

[dionysus]

29. where's the government undersea submarine team for this? oh yeah, we don't have one.

so what the fuck exactly is it you want him to do? go down in a diving bell and use his extensive knowledge of high pressure well technology to magically fix this?

you think the navy has expertise in fixing a ruptured well a mile deep? seriosuly, do you?

you don't seem to have an inkling of what you're talking about.

[greencharlie]

35. then just let it flow... is that YOUR alternative? nt

[PufPuf23]

40. Under NEPA and other Federal Environmental law

the drilling permit should never have been issued in the first place.

On the federal side it is easy to see who should be prosecuted -- just look at the career line officers that signed off on the NEPA documents, their supervisors (such as Salazar) that should have known that NEPA and other laws were not being adhered to in good faith, and the contracting officers and their chain of command.

You sir do not have a clue about what you are talking about. You are an apologist for murder.

[laughingliberal]

31. +1000 nt

[Make7]

3. Obama isn't to blame?

 

BeFree wrote:

He has utterly failed to do his duty.

BeFree wrote:

... Obama and BP are in bed together raping the gulf ...

BeFree wrote:

He has failed.

BeFree wrote:

Looks like the only way to get a goddamn thing done is to take Obama down before the gulf is utterly destroyed.

BeFree wrote:

Obama is the one person, who, with a few orders, can bring a rapid end to this nightmare.

BeFree wrote:

His administration has failed us already.

link
 

[Common Sense Party]

9. Just because someone failed and is raping the gulf...

...doesn't mean that person is to blame.

[Lorien]

11. Just like standing there and allowing a rape or murder to occur

while saying "that's not nice. They should stop doing that." doesn't make one a criminal....but it doesn't make inaction acceptable, either.

[Ladyhawk]

39. Actually, it is a crime.

I know a man who went to prison and is (deservedly) registered as a sex offender. His crime was watching while his buddy raped a woman.

[bobbolink]

42. Appointing people who he knew would let corporate crimes slide is just as criminal.

[joeybee12]

12. He's not to blame for the spill, of course not, but he better start kicking ass

and taking names...why the phuck has the government not beat the shit out of BP and taken over? Do they own us and not the other way around.

[dionysus]

15. explain how he is "cozy with BP"

[BeFree]

20. dio

Check your PM. Thanks.

[dionysus]

26. i did. then i read post #3 in this thread. sounds like you're doing some hefty blaming.

he's an utter failure, he's spitting in your face, he needs to be taken down, and on and on and on.

what do you want me to say?

[BeFree]

28. That was one hell of a rant, eh?

You may be right... Obama can be blamed for some things that have happened.

You got that right. Feel better now?

[dionysus]

30. no, not really. none of this arguing is going to fix the well.

and yes, nice rant i suppose.

[BeFree]

32. Who is arguing?

Obama can begin fixing this problem in two minutes.

Remember, he told us: Make me do it.

[greencharlie]

21. well...

A Center for Responsive politics report shows that BP and its employees gave more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to president Barack Obama. "Donations come from a mix of employees and the company's political action committees&mfash;$2.89 million flowed to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from individuals."

politician... meet cash. Cash, meet politician.


thank you Supreme Court... Corporations are PEOPLE too!

[dionysus]

25. what does this have to do with the spill? are you insinuating that because of this, he's letting the

spill go on? it's not as if there's government team sitting there with oil spill cleanup expertise that are being prevented from fixing this issue.

[laughingliberal]

33. I don't think he's letting the spill go on because of this ...

but leaving BP in charge, even now when they have been shown to be engaged more in covering up the extent of the damage and attempting to mitigate their liability, is a bad idea. Hire the independent engineers and scientists we need to fix this and throw the BP people off our coast guard's boats.

[Bragi]

16. It has become his "Katrina"

The administration has fumbled this issue badly. In the media, the Gulf blowout will be seen from here on in as canceling out the Republicans lingering responsibility for failing to act during Katrina.

In fact, the consequences of the Obama's failure to be seen as competent on this may be even worse for him politically, since his supporters actually care about the environment, while Bush's supporters didn't give a shit about New Orleans.

[spin]

36. Unfortunately true ...

I think G. W. Bush will get the blame for the lack of regulation that led to this mess.

But Obama and his administration will get the blame for not taking command of the situation, allowing BP to lie about the amount of oil spilling into the Gulf, and not stepping in to stop BP from dumping toxic chemicals on the spill.

[bahrbearian]

17. WWJCD

What would Jimmy Carter do?

[marions ghost]

22. It DOES come down to Obama

he's the only one who can cut through the crap that is going on and take a stand for us. He can't leave it all to Ed Markey and a couple of others who don't have nearly as much power. It's going to take presidential power, just as if we were under attack.

Right, I don't think Obama really understood the environmental issues and how scientists have been muzzled and kicked to the curb on every energy issue. But he sure has had a crash course.

I agree that it's time for him to step up if he is the leader of the people and not a BP ho.

This is a big test for Obama & the people's interests over the corporation.

[WeDidIt]

23. Legitimate criticism and legitimate concerns

I give this post four thumbs up...

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[dionysus]

27. then read post #3 above... this gem states;

This is Obama's Katrina.
His 9/11.

I campaigned for him amongst a bunch of redneck assholes and took all kinds of abuse. And he is spitting in my face by not acting on the biggest disaster of my life.

That's it. This is Obama's Katrina. He has utterly failed to do his duty. This is actually worse than Bush sitting there on 9/11 looking stupid.

When they hear me telling them Obama and BP are in bed together raping the gulf, they just may arrest my ass. I hope they fucking try. Bring it on Mother Fuckers. Bring it on.

He has failed. The environmental groups should be praising Obama for his actions, instead they beg him to act..

Looks like the only way to get a goddamn thing done is to take Obama down before the gulf is utterly destroyed. Sorry, but the gulf is far more important than one president.

Obama is the one person, who, with a few orders, can bring a rapid end to this nightmare. So Obama is now the one who will pay for the inaction.

And BP is going down with him.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PufPuf23]

38. Obama made a mistake in hiring Salazar (and Vilsack at USDA)

Obama is rather clueless about the environment but I do not expect the POTUS to be an expert in everything. However, Obama is responsible (as well as Congress) for his appointments.

The DOI and MMS were in a position of blatant abuse and criminal law breaking in NEPA, ESA, and other environmental laws.

Salazar knew better and all was status quo until disaster struck. He deserves no defense and should be fired and prosecuted. Anyone that knew anything about Salazar's history knew he was a poor choice and would be an enabler of large corporations. Now the effort is in saving face including good ideas such as restructuring MMS.

I know of environmental professionals that have lost licenses and been criminally prosecuted for far far far less bad behavior -- example knowing that a northern spotted owl nest tree was deliberately cut or not doing endangered species surveys and mitigations in good faith to avoid issues or mitigations to a project. Safety plans that work should have been mitigations in EISs.

The use of Categorical Exclusions under NEPA for off shore drilling is extremely blatant poor intent and keeps the projects low on the radar of the public, other interested regulating agencies, and internal regulators.

[blindpig]

41. He dances with who brung him.

Corporate support of candidates is not done in a spirit of citizenship, it is quid pro quo.

That's our democracy for ya.