Question: Does the US have sovereignty in the Gulf, or do corporations?

[Go2Peace]

For me this event was a real "eye opener" of an event.

Think about what is happening in the Gulf:

* If you own land and create a mess of pollution on it, you will generally be fined and made to clean it up.

* If you make pollution on someone else's land, you will go to Jail.

Which of these represents the situation in the Gulf? Do we truly have sovereignty? Or have we come to the point that the corporations essentially can act like owners in our oceans?

[Junkdrawer]

1. The company line on that keeps changing.....

First it was "the Coast Guard is in control"...

Then, when that became obviously false, it was "By law, corporations are in charge because they caused the problem!" (No, really, they said that)...

Now it's back to "the Coast Guard is in control" and "pay no attention to that CBS video"...

Toughie. I'm sure they'll make up their mind soon.

[WCGreen]

2. It really is hard to say. That far off shore, sovereignty is an iffy concept...

I wouldn't even venture a guess as to who has legal sovereignty in this situation.

[ashling]

4. Gaia

with us or without us

[Go2Peace]

7. Actually, by international Treaty it is clearly within US territory

But are we really sovereign in this case?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters

[B Calm]

3. Gulf of Mexico. . .

[tavalon]

5. Looks like you took the red pill

That's been an eye opener for me too. I knew all along I didn't like offshore drilling but I never considered who owned or claimed to own those parts of the offshore that were being drilled.

There have been a number of things since the heady night that Obama won the Presidency that have lifted the curtain and made it only too clear that it isn't We The People nor those we elect who are calling the shots. The shadow government isn't gone, it just isn't as blatant as when Dumbya was playing puppet.

A part of me is starting to feel bad for Obama. I've been mad at him plenty since he took over but I'm starting to see something he may have figured out well before me, he doesn't call the shots any more than Dumbya did. Neither does Congress. And the Supreme Court has always been about interpreting not creating nor implementing the laws.

[JDPriestly]

6. Here are the answers to your question, Go2Peace.

It is not so simple. BP is the responsible party here.

There is a law called CERCLA that governs environmental clean-up.

I just posted a thread with information about it -- basic information.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8396797

I'm hoping that people will look at the law and then consider whether it is being applied properly in their opinions.

The government does not just rush in and take charge. There is a process for handling these situations in place. It is too slow for this kind of situation in my opinion. In the end the clean-up is BP's responsibility.

[Go2Peace]

8. I think this backs up the idea that corporations are sovereign

If you or I went out and threw a poison into a marsh we would be taken to jail. But corporations are allowed to treat the ocean as if it belongs to them, with only penalties like landholders would have for mucking up only their own property.

So our current law essentially backs this up. Not saying that is purposeful mind you. But I just think we need to start thinking through who exactly has been given power and control.

Very good info though! Thanks

[JDPriestly]

9. You are right.

I know of a case in which a man damaged something in a store's parking lot. The store claimed that he was angry when he did the damage, that he acted intentionally store accused him of a crime. The man was required to pay for the damages as a part of his sentence. This was a guy with an extremely low income. He was really a nice, very kind person. He just had a lot of personal problems and the lousy service in the store was just the last straw. He now has to admit to a criminal record. The crime was pretty petty, but still, he has a police record.

So, yes. Corporations get by with murder in some cases.

[tavalon]

10. Unfortunately, corporations are extremely slippery people

It's hard to put BP in prison and it's easy for it's executives to play pass the potato.

[tcaudilllg]

11. We need to put a moratorium on new drilling

Until we have better technology.

[Go2Peace]

12. absolutely agreed. We are getting to the point we can destroy whole regions of the ocean

that is just too damn dangerous to do for a few months or even years of energy

[tavalon]

13. Kicked for the morning crowd