Charter Schools’ Big Success? Accounting Tricks, Shady Land Deals, and Skimming Off the Top

[Donnachaidh]

http://www.labornotes.org/blogs/2010/05/charter-schools%E2%80%99-big-success-accounting-tricks-shady-land-deals-and-skimming-top

Soon after declaring the first week of May "National Charter School Week," President Obama continued the push to open up public school districts—and their coffers—to non-union, privately run charter schools. Applications are due June 1 for the second round of his Race to the Top fund, which will reward states that jump on the charter bandwagon. But new reports about corrupt, profiteering charter operators across the country are making the president’s endorsement premature, to say the least.

Nearly every claim made by charter school proponents has come under fire in the last year. A major national study shows that test performance is on average no better in charters than in traditional schools; another report contradicts the stated “civil rights” mission of the charter movement, claiming that the schools are actually exacerbating racial segregation.

And now a third plank of the charter movement platform—that they provide a greater “bang for the buck” by avoiding waste and fraud—is starting to warp.

The claim has been touted by unelected school managers like Detroit’s Robert Bobb, who has set about dismantling the Detroit public schools while endorsing a private plan to set up dozens of charters in their wake over the next decade. (Legal challenges have slowed that train down).


More at the link above ---

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. K R

[MadHound]

2. Yep, it's looking more and more like the only good thing that charter schools can do

Is transfer public money from public schools into the hands of few wealthy elite.

But hey, Obama loves 'em, so they must be good, right?:eyes:

[Donnachaidh]

4. race to the top of the feudal lifestyle -- notice how all the schools are pushing SERVICE jobs?

All those peons out there, being trained to serve the ELITES now in power and their future spawn.

The *race to the top* is a race to the bottom for the *masses* who voted for CHANGE. Little did they know *what* sort of change they had planned for the voters.

[amborin]

3. the further financialization of the public sphere

[villager]

5. Here in L.A., parents' experiences with charters seems to be the opposite:

<snip>

Overall the district did much better in the similar school rankings, with 48 percent of LAUSD campuses scoring in the state's top half when ranked against schools with similar demographics.

Publicly funded and independently run charter schools did especially well in the similar schools rankings. Nearly 40 percent of local charter schools were ranked in the state's top 10 percent.

Among them was Magnolia Science Academy number 1 in Reseda.

At Magnolia eight out of 10 students come from a low-income family and six out of 10 are English language learners.

"We are very proud of this ranking because these are the students who have the highest needs, but we believe in serving a diverse student population... It is part of our mission," said Suleyman Bahceci, executive director of the nine Magnolia Schools operated statewide including the Reseda campus.

Bahceci attributed his school's success to a firm commitment to small schools and small class sizes and a curriculum that focuses on math and technology.

Frequent communication with parents is also required of teachers who post student grades and attendance rates online for parents to access. Educators also make home visits to connect with student's families. "We really believe our students can succeed," Bahceci said.
At Colfax Charter Elementary, Gomez-Judkins said her teachers and parents also share a strong belief that every student can excel, but the last few years have not been without challenge.

The 560-student school has struggled to adjust amid continuous budget cuts. Students and their families have also felt the pain of an economic crisis that has left many with reduced incomes. However, Gomez-Judkins said supportive parents, individualized attention and lots of intervention have helped Colfax weather changes.

As a converted charter school, Colfax is still a district-run campus, but converting to a charter makes it possible for the school to implement unique programs that Gomez-Judkins said have boosted student achievement.

For example students struggling with reading and writing receive specialized instruction and have the opportunity to attend Saturday classes.

<snip>

http://www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_15082068

[tonysam]

6. They're a rip-off.

If you want private, pay for it out of your pocket. Don't rip off the taxpayers with "charter school" schemes when there is NO accountability.

[villager]

7. you can drive to Reseda and tell those working class families that school is a "rip off"

...and that you're going to shove all those students back into the local public schools, since you clearly know better than any of those parents how the school is working for their children...

[tonysam]

8. I don't give a shit what you say. They are a rip off.

Public money should not be going into private schools.

Take your talking points elsewhere.

[villager]

10. Of course you don't give a shit about actual people's experiences in the actual schools

Your mind is made up in advance, evidence be damned...

[madfloridian]

14. I don't want public money going to privately run schools.

We need public schools in this country.

[villager]

16. I wish somebody would respond to the specifics about the L.A. charters

...in the article I posted.

What about the flexibility in the local, more neighborhood-run schools? The extra reading help? The Saturday classes?

Also, charters don't have to be straightjacketed by the rote programs shoved down teachers' throats by administrators in, for example, LA Unified.

(Over the weekend, I met someone who does equipment sales for film studios, who said a friend was encouraging him to come over and sell pre-packaged curricula to school districts -- he's making a *fortune* selling them to large districts like L.A. Unified...

Boy, that sure honors the needs of our children, doesn't it?)

We need a variety of educational options and modalities in this country. We need robustly funded public schools of many varieties, with far more input from teachers, and parents (and students!)

The proclamation that "all charter schools are bad," and "all public schools are good," is however, completely ludicrous, and does nothing to spark a meaningful discussion.

[madfloridian]

17. Baloney. Not about being good or bad....it's about public money and crossing the line

into privatization using that taxpayer money.

Don't make it sound like I am not talking about the issue. I am and I have. This is privatization pure and simple.

Imagine Charter in St. Pete a million in debt. Taxpayers will foot the bill.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/6145

Taking the "public" out of public schools.....happening quickly.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5680

Faces of school reform. Too many billionaires.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5655

"a great and terrible charade"..school leaders and entrepreneurs triumphant at school closings?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5640

Discipline methods from a charter school that would get public school teachers in serious trouble.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5623

"Democracy Privatized!"...education blog talks about turning over public functions to “the market”.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5610

Eli Broad: “We don’t know anything about how to teach or reading curriculum or any of that."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5817

Seems my taxpayer money will be sending many more to private schools....
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5670

Two Florida charter schools in financial crisis. Taxpayer money is paying their debt.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5801

Baton Rouge judges rules it is ok to give taxpayer money to charter schools.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5806

Former GOP insider says "Billionaire Boys' Club" dismantling education.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5787

Boston schools officials: We are not "firing" all teachers, just making them reapply.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5781

1994: Project Censorship The Sandia Report On Education. Showed schools improving. Not published.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5777

WP: It was a "sad, desperate" decision to fire all of R. I. school's teachers.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5765

Parents at PS 15, an "A" school, ask state to intervene in PAVE charter invasion.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5762

Two things: A clear concise indictment of charters, and a Chicago fight to stop school closings.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5754

Harlem charter school head emails show very special access to NY school chancellor
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5748

Living and dying by test scores: a charter faces probation for weeding out problem students.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5738

Charter school exec led hearing to let his school invade a Bronx trade school.
to privatization using that money from taxpayers.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5722

Politically connected NY charter schools to receive 72 million in city money.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5710

Established Bronx trade school may be replaced by untested academic charter school.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5704

A Bad Year for Teachers, a Bad Year for Public Education
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5691

Protesting school closings in Chicago. “They are closing schools without following procedure.”
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5688

KIPP charter school invades NY public school with "A" grade....read the views of both sides.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5684

Florida wants 1 billion of Arne's 4. 3 billion to hire corporate consultants. Unbelievable.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5658

[villager]

19. But you don't address the issues in the article, about how schools

...are in fact addressing specific needs the parents and local communities have.

I could cut and paste just as many headlines about the failings of public schools, of course, but that's not a "discussion."

Again: On what basis do you make educational decisions for your own children?

And again: Do you only believe in a single model for educating *all* children?

[madfloridian]

20. It is NOT about any of that. It is about privatizing public schools

so they will make a profit for corporations.

[villager]

22. do you have children that you send to schools?

That should be a pretty easy one to answer.

We can start an actual discussion there -- I'd love to hear your criteria for making choices for them...

[madfloridian]

25. I have discussed this topic over and over and over.

I have been told to leave it be. Maybe you just never happened on any of it.

Good by, until you stop with the talking points.

I can not stand them under a Democratic administration which is determined to turn public schools into private entities.

It is unbearable.

[villager]

28. You don't even know whether you have children?

And your evasiveness in responding becomes someone else's "talking points?"

Well, enjoy being mad! Let me know what you want to actually talk about this stuff....

[Greyskye]

80. .

The charter school haters will never enter into a dialog with you - I've tried. Bring up specifics such as you did, and they yell 'talking points', or 'boutique schools', or 'your examples don't matter', or, my favorite, 'bullshit'.

I've bent over backwards with them, acknowledging problems with for-profit charters. I've also given numerous examples of successful, NON-profit (as in not in any way shape or form associated with any for-profit organization) public charters, and been simply ignored, or told I'm either a liar or an industry stooge. My wife, a teacher at a very successful NON-profit public school charter, has posted her experiences and point of view with identical results.

This post, no doubt, will be replied to in a similar fashion by one of the half-dozen usual suspects. I won't be entering into a discussion with them, as history indicates there to be absolutely no point in it. Sigh.

[villager]

96. +1

n/t

[mopinko]

illinois law forbids for profit charters. maybe that's why arne likes them.

he hasn't seen the horrors of a poorly run charter because in chicago we do them right.
we have charters here that are run by various interest groups, and some of our best universities. they represent a wide range of options for interest and ability.
i really wish i had the time to go out and document what has happened in chicago schools. it really has been a renaissance. you can find people that argue otherwise. but imo, it has been a sea change for the better. the fact that the catholic schools system that used to be the only choice for parents has been starved nearly to death should be a clue.

i have seen many calls for more parental involvement, but apparently involvement in deciding what kind of school a kid should attend is not one of the options.

[Hannah Bell]

100. doesn't forbid for-profit management, real estate & curricular arms, though. distinction without a

difference.

[mopinko]

103. just like the chicago schools

before the word charter ever entered the lexicon, school board members had friends who had real estate, or owned catering companies, or curriculum companies. many many got fat cling to that vine.

in chicago charters are run by actual non-profits, like long, long, long recognized charities, universities and even the teachers union. no one is making a direct profit. those other things do not constitute a difference between charters and the common schools.

done right there is just no difference. it works for colleges, why can't it work for high schools?

[Hannah Bell]

104. and if a board member owned a catering company, they could maybe cater

some school board meetings, or a district meeting. because student school food services used to be run by districts, not by catering companies. The school district I live within has about 8 schools. No one could have gotten "rich" here even if they catered every administrative meeting in the district.

But a national company could if it had the contract not only for this puny district, but for 60 other districts just like it.

if they owned real estate, maybe they could sell a piece of land to the district to build a school on. what they *couldn't* do was own the land, the school, and charge exhorbitant, continuing rents, while getting low-interest loans of government money from the "school" they managed to buy even *more* real estate. Because once the school was built, the district/state owned it & the land it sat on, not the board member.

Board members wouldn't have owned "curriculum" companies. They might have had a piece of a textbook or materials company, not a "curriculum" company. Total packaged curriculum companies are a recent development. Because districts used to write their own curriculum, using their own personnel.

Charter schools exponentially escalate the avenues for profit. That's precisely their function.

And they exponentially escalate the avenues for corruption as well.

[mopinko]

50. illinois law forbids for profit charters. maybe that's why arne likes them.

he hasn't seen the horrors of a poorly run charter because in chicago we do them right.
we have charters here that are run by various interest groups, and some of our best universities. they represent a wide range of options for interest and ability.
i really wish i had the time to go out and document what has happened in chicago schools. it really has been a renaissance. you can find people that argue otherwise. but imo, it has been a sea change for the better. the fact that the catholic schools system that used to be the only choice for parents has been starved nearly to death should be a clue.

i have seen many calls for more parental involvement, but apparently involvement in deciding what kind of school a kid should attend is not one of the options.

[Hannah Bell]

105. Reports out of chicago say different.

Daley school plan fails to make grade

By Stephanie Banchero
Tribune Reporter
Updated: 8:41 AM 1/16/2010


Six years after Mayor Richard Daley launched a bold initiative to close down and remake failing schools, Renaissance 2010 has done little to improve the educational performance of the city's school system, according to a Tribune analysis of 2009 state test data.

Scores from the elementary schools created under Renaissance 2010 are nearly identical to the city average, and scores at the remade high schools are below the already abysmal city average, the analysis found.

The moribund test scores follow other less than enthusiastic findings about Renaissance 2010 -- that displaced students ended up mostly in other low performing schools and that mass closings led to youth violence as rival gang members ended up in the same classrooms. Together, they suggest the initiative hasn't lived up to its promise by this, its target year.

http://mobile.chicagotribune.com/inf/infomo?view=top_stories_item&feed:a=chi_trib_1min&feed:c=topstories&feed:i=51676200&nopaging=1

[Alcibiades]

91. You can have neighborhood public schools

We have them in my district.

[Hannah Bell]

98. The trouble with the article you quote is there have been many such articles painting

nice pictures of charter school successes; then, after the fact, articles came out deflating those initial claims.

you can't blame people for being suspicious when so many of the initial "successes" were found to be no different from the public schools they replaced -- except for the public money going into private hands.

[Dinger]

45. And We Know Where That Is (nt)

[October]

18. Yeah, and public schools are sooooo accountable.

Please.

[Dinger]

41. More Accountable To Tougher Standards, Yes

Get a clue.

[villager]

48. Ah, yes -- the Bush standards! One size fits all!

Quite imaginative. I'm sure all kids everywhere will love it!

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Tell that to Obama

He's taken the Bush standards and put them on steroids.

[villager]

55. Glad to know our areas of resounding agreement -- repeal the stultifying standards!

Which straightjacket schools everywhere, and provide far too many rationalizations for administrators to take power away from teachers, parents... and, of course, students...

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. Actually there are no standards from the feds

Only a requirement to have test scores at a certain level.

It's not only an unfunded mandate but an empty one as well. States are free to develop their own assessment system for reporting these test scores. So a kid who is deemed proficient in one state may or may not be proficient in another state.

A set of national standards along with a national assessment would correct this.

I'm not a big fan of federally imposed standards but they would be a big improvement over the fucked up system we have now. Actually the best solution would be to abolish NCLB, but that isn't going to happen.

[villager]

64. well, by "standards," I meant the test scores -- the same "numbers" regardless

...of school populations, learning abilities, teaching styles, et al... A single mould for everyone.

But tell me more about what you see as national standards that could be beneficial (while, one hopes, maintaining a kind of educational diversity?)

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. I don't see much beneficial other than a common standard and reporting system

If we are going to focus on test scores to judge schools (which I disagree with) then a common system in all 50 states is more honest.

Other than that I am not a big fan of national standards. We are a diverse nation and what kids in one community need to learn is often very different from what kids in another community need.

The other part of the standards movement I really don't like is the ungraded classroom. Instead of being in 3rd grade kids are placed in classrooms with children at a similar achievement level. And I really don't like the idea of a 5th grader being in class with 2nd graders. I prefer the same age peer groupings that are currently common.

[villager]

74. I think grouping within a year or so -- 2nd/3rd, 4th/5th, etc. - can work...

...but also agree that too wide a disparity in age range could have social ramifications....

On edit: Am also against national standards, but you seem to be saying that if we're stuck with them, we should have broader ways of measuring than just the test numbers, yes?

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. Well if we start with grouping within a year or so they will eventually widen the groups

This business is hyper focused on saving money so I see them expanding those groups within a year or so.

I sure hope we aren't stuck with national standards. We are piloting them next year but I chose not to participate and not only because I'm not a fan. I see this as just another trend that will be abandoned in a few years. It's way too out of the box to be permanent.

And yes we need to move beyond standardized tests to measure student achievement.

[villager]

78. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing...

I was in mixed grade classes growing up... and so, more recently, were my sons...

Both instances seemed fine, as long as 8th graders and 3rd graders aren't in the same class!

[Dinger]

94. Touché madfloridian (nt)

again:)

[Hannah Bell]

99. Those are the standards that were used to judge public schools inadequate & in need of closing.

But if they're applied to charter schools you find them unimaginative & unimportant?

[mopinko]

9. if parents didn't want them, they wouldn't be there.

i can't think of a higher endorsement of an institution than to have parents voluntarily hand over their children. more than voting with their feet, voting with their future.
i see it as people fed up with the common schools. selective enrollment and curriculum specific public schools and charters in chicago have orders of magnitude more applications than seats. common schools point the finger at parent apathy, but the growth of alternatives to the common schools show that parents do care and want choices.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tonysam]

13. It isn't the "public" which is driving it. It's people buying thirty years of LIES

about public education which is "driving" this "demand" for junk schools.

"Choice" is a bullshit concept, when the ultimate goal is to DESTROY educational access for the masses.

Mark my words, you people who think this shit is any good are going to rue the day when we have a two-tiered education system with a handful of rich being allowed a decent education, while everybody else will be pushed in these crap schools, if these schools even exist ten years from now. After all, the World Bank does NOT want a highly-educated workforce. Education is seen by it as a waste of money.

I DON'T WANT MY TAXPAYER DOLLARS BEING SHOVELED INTO PRIVATE SCHOOLS TAKING PUBLIC MONEY AND NOT BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR SPENDING THAT MONEY. That is the bottom line.

[madfloridian]

15. It is a big giant propaganda machine to privatize schools...

and the public schools don't have the resources to fight back against the wealthy corporations. These corporations fund so called "parents' groups" and they call them grassroots. Yeh, just like the teabaggers are grassroots.

Public money should not go to corporations.

[Dappleganger]

23. It really doesn't matter, because public is supposed to remain PUBLIC.

If parents are so fed up with the common schools then they need to band together, form strong PTO's, RUN FOR SCHOOL BOARDS, get on the curriculum boards, become volunteers in their child's school and change the system from within.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater only short-changes those who have the least amount of say and that is NOT the basis upon which public education in this nation was founded. In our state of FL there are religious groups everywhere who are clamoring for PUBLIC FUNDS to pay for this private, RELIGIOUS education. How is this constitutional? How is this FAIR to those who are not of any faith or just don't want to be indoctrinated by fundies??

Also, explain how these private charter schools are using public funds meant for PUBLIC schools to purchase testing material from companies which have strong ties to republican/fundy groups??

And don't even get me started on how perfectly good, experienced, highly-innovated teachers are regularly sacrificed upon the alter of 'charter schools'.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. A+

[ljm2002]

21. While I don't doubt that some charters are successful...

...and the one you cite, Magnolia Science Academy looks like a good example.

However, the report you cite says:

"Publicly funded and independently run charter schools did especially well in the similar schools rankings. Nearly 40 percent of local charter schools were ranked in the state's top 10 percent."

Please note: "...40 percent of local charter schools...". So I want to know, does the report distinguish from chain charters, charters managed by outsiders, and local charters that are still managed by the public school system's people rather than by charter school management companies?

I also note that the executive director attributes their successes largely to "a firm commitment to small schools and small class sizes". I wonder if the regular public schools have that same firm commitment to small schools and class sizes -- or if they could hope to implement such restrictions, even if they wanted to?

[villager]

31. These are all great points, and well worth discussing....!

Are truly local charters more successful -- for students, families, etc. -- than the chain variety?

What elements make them successful?

And how, indeed, can we allow public schools the same small class sizes (not all charters have small classes, though), learning community environments, etc.?

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. None of that changes the fact that this is about public money going to private entities

[Dappleganger]

30. Exactly.

Some people on this board who are still drunk with Bushie's talking points just can't seem to get that through their thick heads.

I've got more lipstick to pass out for those who are still insisting upon dressing up their pigs.

[villager]

32. so, better to allow "public" school districts to spend our tax dollars on privately vended

...curricula, which they do in L.A. Unified (for example), and which the teachers are left to merely administer?

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Curriculum purchases are not the same as funding charter schools

Not even close.

[villager]

47. So if a parent has more say in what a charter does, and less about the corporation

...the curriculum being purchased and administered in the "public" schools is from, which is actually more "public?"

And shouldn't we be talking about ways to make public schools more responsive to local needs, student/parental input, etc.?

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Curriculum is not purchased

It is written. So the only purchase is the labor of the persons writing the curriculum.

I am spending the summer writing curriculum along with a team of teachers and parents. It is a very open and public process.

Meanwhile charters in my area use a curriculum that is implemented with NO input from teachers or parents. It's a top down process. The logical assumption is that the corporations that run our charters do not trust teachers and parents to be knowledgable enough to write curriculum.

I prefer the traditional public school model.

[villager]

56. that's great, that you have that much say in the curriculum...

Here, public school teachers have varying degrees of latitude (depending on whether it's a magnet, academy within the public school, the "mainstream" classes, etc...)

The district in L.A. is entirely top-down, and that's one thing that local parents -- across the region -- are reacting to....

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Our district is way too top down too, IMO

But the charters here are even more so.

[villager]

60. I think it depends on the charter, actually...

And I think we agree that we'd like the bulk of "classroom say" to reside with teachers/parents/students, regardless of what kind of school it is...

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. Yes we agree on that point

:hi:

[Hannah Bell]

101. If you know that, you should be able to link to the documentation. Which company is it that the

district buys its curriculum from?

Not textbooks or other teaching materials -- curriculum, please.

[Hannah Bell]

97. different information on resesda magnolia science reported at LA times:

% english language learners: 8.7%
diversity rank: 4/10
overall rank 6/10

but looking over these stats, & the stats at other sites, i see a number of contradictions. i wonder how accurate any of these stats are & who's tracking them.

http://projects.latimes.com/schools/school/reseda/magnolia-science-academy/

magnolia is owned/run by one of those "non-profits": 12 schools, from Orangedale to the border. Board appears to be engineering types of Turkish ethnicity & one latino parent, e.g.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/suleymanbahceci

interesting, the selfless fellow above is also linked to a completely different educational foundation & charter school chain, here:

http://we-team.org/about/about.html
http://www.baytechschool.org/

The international club went to turkey for their spring break.

interesting in light of the fact that most of the board is turkish &, though the resesda school is majority latino, its white minority is reportedly mostly turkish ethnicity too. as are (apparently) all the principals in the magnolia chain.

http://www.magnoliacharterschools.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=96&Itemid=99

http://www.magnoliacharterschools.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=95&Itemid=100

http://www.magnoliacharterschools.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=112&Itemid=107

http://www.magnoliacharterschools.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=108&Itemid=102

http://www.magnoliacharterschools.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=109&Itemid=103

etc.

[no_hypocrisy]

12. Charter school lobby is running an ad campaign on TV & radio in NY.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703626604575011391417058952.html

"Outraged" "parents" (actors) who are mad at the legislature for turning down $700 million of federal funds (Obama's Race To The Top") for "public" schools.

Mad at the teachers union who want a cap of charter schools instead of an increase of some 400 more in the state.

Mad at teachers for discouraging the award of funds by not wanting to have their salaried determined by more "evaluation".

And the obligatory 800 # at the end so residents of New York State can call their representatives.

[onpatrol98]

27. I want more options

I want more options. In my area, there is only one private high school and it has historically been for white children ONLY.

The public high school is watching its graduation rates tank, ACT scores sink, and every other positive indicator becoming negative.

Is it wrong to want another option? We live here. We work here. We pay taxes here. We have a high school on the verge of failing. What are my options? What inherent right does my local substandard high school have to keep our tax dollars, ask for additional tax dollars, and still not educate our children?

If charter schools are not part of the solution, and its okay with me if they're not...what is? And, it clearly can't simply be to fix our failing public schools. It hasn't happened. There is something wrong with that model in my area.

I would love to see a charter school THAT ACTUALLY WORKED move into my area. Do charter schools really move into school districts that already have wonderfully functioning schools? I doubt it seriously. No parent would take their child out of a great environment to simply try something new.

These charter schools have to be moving into areas where parents are already fed up with the existing structure. Some charter schools (very few), but some are started by public school teachers.

If there was a "real" private high school. I would be willing to pay for it out of pocket. But, to me, forcing children (generally children of color), into failing school districts should be a civil rights violation.

[madfloridian]

29. You have all the options you want. Just use your own money..

[onpatrol98]

34. I am using my own money

I am using "my" own money. I'm a taxpayer just like you. And, as I said...IF there was a private school for children that looked like mine, in my area, "my" children would be there.

It should be ILLEGAL to take taxpayer dollars and then NOT EDUCATE the student population. And, that should go for charter schools and public schools.

My zip code should not dictate the quality of education my children receive in a public school.

[villager]

35. +1

n/t

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[onpatrol98]

81. A Good School

I want a good school. I live in Mississippi. I don't give a rat's behind who sits next to my child in a school. Here in many states in the south...private schools evolved out the request that the south desegregate its schools. So, many schools are private but contain only white children. My children are black, like I am.

So, if I sent my child to a private high school, he would be the only one in the school who was black. This is really only a problem, if my young black son would like to date, mingle, and interact socially. If that was the case, it would be a nightmare.

For some, this would be no problem. For others, this would be a major problem. So, many private schools in the south do not offer a higher standard of education, they simply allow young white children to attend schools with no black people in them.

I understand the reality of many on this board may be different. However, it isn't my reality. In other states, perhaps there are a plethora of great public schools to chose from. Just not my state.

So, my choice is the singular, lackluster public school. And, I'm being generous. Or, perhaps home school. I did have a delightful conversation on DU about homeschooling. It was quite enlightening.

I'm not looking for a black high school. I just want a safe high school where my child can really learn. I don't think I'm asking for too much.

My children don't look odd or strange. I personally think my sons are quite handsome, charming, and intelligent. I just want a decent education for them.

[Common Sense Party]

83. And I applaud you for wanting a decent education for them.

That's all any parent wants for a child, and no, it should NOT be too much to ask.

How some people here can get their undies in a bunch and completely twist your words until they viewed it as a racist statement...some people don't have a lick of common sense.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

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[onpatrol98]

93. Writing More Slowly

Our state has a rather tumultuous background in terms of educating students from different backgrounds. I believe that my children in an all white private school could be subjected to a level of hostility that I am not comfortable with. I believe this because I know as a lifelong resident of this state that many of our private schools emerged not as quest for better educational system, but rather as a system to escape minorities. If that's what they want to do fine.

I imagine if I were in some states more accustomed to diversity (in general), this level of hostility may not exist. Even if the private school was all white. I live in a state that even in some very diverse schools, still have separate proms, separate prom queens, etc.

So, you have effectively pinned me down. Congratulations. I would feel more comfortable sending my sons to a private high school that also had some black teenagers.

In some other state, I would feel less trepidation. My husband used to travel a lot in the military and he tells me of places where race doesn't make a difference. In my state, it still does.

I started on this ill-fated conversation, because I simply wanted more options. I'm a tax payer. I've always attended public schools. My husband, my parents, my siblings, etc. We were all in public schools.

As my children have gotten older, I have noticed the problems our local public schools are having. I don't blame the teachers. My husband is a public school teacher. Perhaps this public school model works in wealthier areas. I don't know many public schools that do well in an area with a lower tax base. I think we need to do something different. I'd love for that something different to happen in the public school system. It hasn't.

It may happen 20 years from now. But, I've got kids now. I want more options now. And, I don't think I'm asking for a lot. To be honest, I think if we allowed different public schools to function differently and gave public school teachers more flexibility we would see a big difference.

But, I read the wisest statement that I'd seen in awhile here on DU not too long ago. A DUer simply said "age" is a horrible way to categorize children. That poster was right. Just because you have a group of children who are the same age, doesn't mean they're at the same level or will progress at the same rate. We need to be willing to do something different.

[Name removed]

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[madfloridian]

51. Wow.

So you think "private" is good, "public" is bad automatically.

I don't know how to respond to that.

Public schools are educating, even as they are having resources taken from them and given to charters.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[proud2BlibKansan]

62. When my kids were little I deliberately looked for schools and a neighborhood

full of kids who did NOT look like them.

Silly me I guess.

[Phentex]

66. Well, there's one charter here that is the neighborhood school...

and it cannot exclude anyone in the district since it is a public school. It just happens to be a very diverse school, too.

Where does the idea of exclusion come in?

[EFerrari]

67. Post #40.

And I have to challenge your assertion. There are a lot of ways that a school can let parents know that their children aren't welcome, no matter what the law says. Laura Flanders had on an educator from Chicago recently, iirc, that pointed out that families were turned away from charters all the time indirectly.

[Phentex]

69. I'm not following...

Indirectly?

If you live here, your kid can get on the bus and go.

I think one difference here is that the choices are endless. The money people with the "kids like mine" attitude have their pick of private schools. They haven't tried to take over the public schools.

[EFerrari]

72. No, they haven't taken over the public schools. On the contrary.

Do you know what "integration" meant in this country? Especially in the South, it meant you shut down the black school. Just shut it down, done.

How is this different, in your opinion?

[Phentex]

76. This school is majority non-white...

so integration in the terms you mean does not apply. I have no doubt that what you are saying is true in other places.

Look, I'm simply mentioning a charter that works, that IS a neighborhood school, where the kids DON'T all look the same, and where they get the same public funds as the other public schools. I am speaking to the idea that this school does not exclude kids who live in the district.

All in all, I don't see why we as a nation even have a need for charter schools. But I won't paint all of them with the same brush.

[EFerrari]

79. Okay. The main impetus behind charter schools are two.

Busting teachers unions and segregation. Well, three if you count the people who have found a way to make money off of tax law. And if tax dollars can be used to fund the privatization of our school system, then the movement backers get a bonus.

Defunding our public schools is now a decades long effort and it's brought us exactly to here.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. Gentrification is a big issue in Chicago as well

I sat on a panel not long ago with some teachers from Chicago. They have some major horror stories to tell.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. It was a comment made in another reply in this thread.

[onpatrol98]

84. Good grief...

The private schools in my area do not have black children in them. Clearly, I worded my post awkwardly. Some environments can be rather hostile to children who are different. The way this site almost exploded because a girl wanted to bring another girl to a prom...I somehow was under the clearly mistaken impression that some of you had an idea that even in America today, its a possibility that not every child is welcome in every environment.

My youngest sons are actually biracial. You would be surprised at the looks we can get. Especially, when I'm with my husband. Not everyone has the same options. Someone on the board suggest I move. Perhaps. Although my husband and I are both employed in this area, perhaps the thing we should do in this economy is move.

[Phentex]

86. Some of us got it...

those who did not automatically assume you were white. *I* understood you to mean that a private school would be fine if only there were at least some kids who look like yours not that ALL of the kids needed to look like yours.

[onpatrol98]

92. Thank you so much!!!

[Name removed]

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[Dinger]

42. Yes (nt)

[Dappleganger]

36. If you can afford to pay for a private high school

then you can afford more options. This is why we chose to live just outside of the major city, as the PS system was so poorly run and the signs were all there for total failure. We found the smallest house we could stand to live in which had a much better school district, although the drive is a bit far. At the time the market was just beginning to go way up so we bought at the beginning of the 'bubble'. You couldn't find a rental home to save your life, although now they're a dime a dozen due to the market crash. Taxes are a bit lower here, but we get a HUGE bang for the buck with public education. Many, many people from the city have moved out here just for the schools (and at least now it's possible to find rentals and apartments).

Another option which our state of FL has is FL Virtual School, their fully-accredited online school. This is run as its own school system but overseen by the FL state dept. of Ed. Many fine teachers who are either newly retired or laid off from teaching are employed by this program. They use internet and frequent phone calls (and the occasional meetup!) for student-teacher interaction. This kind of learning has weekly accountability and monthly phone conferences. Your child doesn't move forward until they know the material. Our daughter used this during the past year (she's 13) and they use the exact same texts as the local middle school, to which she'll be returning in the fall. Online learning is definitely not for everyone but for some students it's just the right method of teaching. It's very important to make sure they get plenty of socialization if they go that route.

[madfloridian]

33. How the rich are paying to take over LAUSD public schools.

Up to 250 public schools to be turned over to outside bidders? Called a hostile takeover.

Parents' groups are formed with private money, and they pretend to be grassroots. There are people in place in Los Angeles school leadership to allow perhaps 250 public schools to be taken over by private companies.

This is called PRIVATIZATION. It is being done with big money ads tearing down teachers in public schools, and pretending there is nothing good about public schools.

It is a scheme.

"The corporate charter school movement is getting ready to rear it's ugliest face as LAUSD prepares to action off 250 schools (with part of this process headed by former Broad Resident Parker Hudnut). Media outlets in LA have frozen out the voice of teachers, painted union members as totally crazy, and refused to take any kind of critical look at this rapid expansion of charter schools despite a growing body of evidence that should give us reason to pause.

The story of Green Dot story is much, much deeper and disturbing than mainstream media outlets let on. In the article below, Emerson Middle School teacher Carolyn Jacobson highlights some of the more questionable aspects of the Green Dot narrative constructed by PR whizzes, corporate honchos, and philanthrocapitalists backing the expansion of charters."

Lots more info there.

[villager]

37. Granted, you don't know L.A. at all, but this paragraph was in your citation:

" In addition to the schools named above, the following schools also are on the list: Gardena High in Gardena, San Pedro High in San Pedro, San Fernando Middle School, Carver Middle School in South Park, Griffith Joyner Elementary in Watts, Hillcrest Elementary in Baldwin Hills, Crenshaw, Hyde Park Elementary in Hyde Park."

Those are all schools in what we might call "economically challenged" neighborhoods and areas.

The questions to ask are: How are students in these crime/gang/joblessness -plagued areas being served now? What would the best options be for those parents, with no extra income to provide choices for their sons and daughters?

Are the corporate-developed curricula, being sold to vast districts like L.A. Unified and then being force-fed to local schools, really the best options in all cases?

If not Green Dot -- and maybe there are lots of good reasons not become chartered with Green Dot -- then what, or who, for concerned parents (and students) at these schools?

[Hannah Bell]

106. Since charter schools don't improve the situation, what's the point of turning schools over to them

except profit?

And "corporate-developed curriculum" came into the picture when charters did. Districts used to write their own curricula. Most still do.

I think it was you who claimed LA bought their curriculum, & me who asked for the name of the corporation they bought it from?

[Name removed]

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[Dinger]

43. K & Rec # 18 (nt)

[Dinger]

44. Good, It's Up To 19

Just keepin' track:)

[Greyhound]

46. K&R for the utter predictability.

[DireStrike]

49. And yet EVERY politician on both sides of the aisle supports them.

What the fuck can we do about this bullshit?

[villager]

57. So people in this thread are similarly against magnet schools, public school academies, etc.?

Here in L.A., the public schools also have "magnet school" alternatives (akin to many of the local charters), within the public school district.

Parents have to accumulate "points" to get in, many are highly desirable with not nearly as many slots as there are students/families wanting to get in, etc.

There are also academies within local public schools, that can emphasize certain things (academics, humanities, technology, performing arts, etc.) -- again, a public school version of something that approximates what parents often seek in a charter.

I wonder how these fit in to the current debate here?

[laughingliberal]

63. More change from the "progressive revolution!" No?

k & r

[proudohioan]

70. Corporate charter schools corrupt? What a shock, I tell ya! nt

[knitter4democracy]

87. It really depends on who is running the charter.

I teach in a charter run by one of our local districts, so the teachers are union members with the same contract as the district's teachers, and we have to follow all the same laws as everyone else. We're an alternative high school, so this way makes sense for us, but there are charters out there run by total idiots who make public school administrators look like choirboys.

[LWolf]

88. k&r

[Starry Messenger]

90. I want to know why charter schools got a National Week

What was the politics behind that? Is there a National Public School Week too? I find all this evangelizing for privatizing education to be totally puke-inducing.

[fascisthunter]

95. puke indicuing it is... fine way to get tax payers to pay more for education

by hiding the truth about Charter Schools. If you have the money, you will always have options... the rest, can go to hell and while we are at it, let's dig a larger hole for all that debt.

[Hannah Bell]

102. that's because pukes are inducing the movement.