Is there a common thread here?

[blindpig]

Reckless pursuit of profit leads to what will surely be the greatest man made ecological disaster in history. Eleven men, an ecosystem, an industry and way of life are dead, so far.

Twenty nine men die due to corporate neglect and subversion of government regulators in a West Virginia mine.

Health care for all Americans is turned into a profit fest for said industry, profits are guaranteed and the people still go begging.

The finance industry blows up due to invertible overreach and the bill is delivered to and paid by the workers.

Our public education is turned into a for profit industry with the active help of the government despite indications that this does not improve education.

Imperial wars continue with no end in sight in a region that has supreme importance to the energy sector.

The bankers overreach in Greece and again the workers are to foot the bill.

A 'bipartisan committee'(run away!) is looking to impose 'fiscal austerity' on our Social Security. Guess who's gonna profit?

Capitalism is the common thread. An economic arrangement which wildly benefits the very few to the detriment of everything, everything else. Humanity is murdered, pauperized, immiserized, the biosphere is mutilated, the future is forfeited by this monstrous economic arrangement.

Draw your own conclusions.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. Yes

[G_j]

2. K&R

[jp11]

3. GO AMERICA!

[ima_sinnic]

4. preach it, bro

anti-capitalist here.

recced :thumbsup:

[leftstreet]

5. You're just jealous of rich people

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

K&R

:thumbsup:

[Mojeoux]

61. On some Reality show, a wealthy young heir

said that God must love him more than poor people.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:
:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[LiberalLoner]

6. K&R

[amborin]

7. K&R corporate dictatorship

totally agree!

[JoseGaspar]

8. That is so well and simply said...

Yes, capitalism is the "problem" and "well-regulated" capitalism is not the solution.

[jotsy]

9. The creation of common dread is more like it.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

In case you're wondering, I rec'd this.

[MsLeopard]

10. This is what the end of empire looks like

Capitalism is bringing down the "great experiment" of democracy our founders envisioned. It's been completely warped into the disgrace described in the OP. I feel so sorry for my children and grandchildren, having to live in this messed up place. K&R for the truth. :kick:

[laughingliberal]

17. End of the Empire-Final Battle appearing near you this December, a holiday production to remember

It's just one big cleanup operation, now. There's a few pennies left to wrench away from us and they can move on. I've no doubt it would already be over except for our SS funds they haven't gotten their hands on yet. But soon, soon...."The precious...must have the precious....'

[HillbillyBob]

40. Great Experiment in 1774

to the Great Excrement in 2009

[Catherina]

11. Why do you hate America?

Rec'd



"The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

[ShortnFiery]

12. Well put. K & R. eom

[RoccoR5955]

13. Capitalism will be the end of the current "civilization."

If you can call it that. I find it hard from civilized to only care about oneself, and not others, and not care a bit about how we treat our Mother Earth.
Corporations are not like that. We were doomed when they declared that corporations have the same rights as people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Call it fascism, more accurate

this is not capitalism... at least not what Ricardo and Smith wrote about.

And yes words matter.

[blindpig]

20. No Nadine, you're dead ass wrong.

If yer gonna evoke classical economics then you must follow it to it's conclusion, Marx.

This is capitalism, fascism is a form of government very amenable to capitalism, just ask IG Farben. Our government is arranged differently but the results are the same.

But you are right about one thing, words do matter, calling the current arrangement 'fascism' or 'corporate capitalism' or 'shock capitalism' implies that there is some other kind that is acceptable, and that is a lie, a fantasy fostered by the ruling class and their suck-ups order to continue the pillage. Capitalism always comes to this or something like it, the requirements of growth make it a foregone conclusion.

[laughingliberal]

15. Profit is the new Religion in America. Kneel before your God! nt

[Echo In Light]

18. .

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MbXVixbidDQ/Srn5cvtWgdI/AAAAAAAAAfg/KYimbvnjTYU/s320/Corporate+Slave.jpg

[Make7]

16. Doesn't every system where the very few are in control of the many have the same issues?

The Feudalism of the Middle Ages, Colonialism by the British Empire, Dictatorships in 20th Century Latin America, Fascism in WWII Europe, Communism in the former Soviet Union.

blindpig wrote:

An economic arrangement which wildly benefits the very few to the detriment of everything, everything else. Humanity is murdered, pauperized, immiserized, the biosphere is mutilated, the future is forfeited by this monstrous economic arrangement.

Would that not also apply to the other systems I mentioned?
 

[blindpig]

22. It is a matter of time and scale

Capitalism is the form of economic organization of our time, it's what we got to deal with. Capitalism is fantastically product but also fantastically destructive given the scale of it's activity, it encompasses the world. Some of the examples that you mention are part of capitalism, fascism and colonialism for example. The Soviet Union is a special case.

[Make7]

26. Perhaps it's a matter of how one defines various terms.

Most capitalist would argue that systems where the government has a large role in economic matters, such as fascism or the administration of colonies under colonialism, are not really capitalist systems. Just as many communists will argue that the Soviet Union is not a true example of communism. I think the underlying thread that ties most of the abusive examples of various socio-economic systems together is the inequality of the political system. Whenever a handful of people have overwhelming control over the direction of governments and economies, the consequences tend to lead to very similar outcomes.

It wouldn't be difficult to find examples analogous to the abuses to the common welfare in systems other than capitalism when the underlying balance of power of the system is vastly tilted to the side of the wealthy and/or powerful. Limiting the examples of abuses to capitalism in the opening post might imply that the problem is less complicated than in reality it is. If the problem was simply capitalism, why have the same issues occurred in non-capitalist societies?

[tiny elvis]

33. i think that capitalism's distinction is the efficiency

in the systematic application of its extremes
in other kinds of societies where might makes right the applications of power can be ideological rather than pragmatic
or the use of power can be vague and arbitrary
you could have a good king or a bad king
your point is very good and i am not contradicting it much, but i think you are suggesting that capitalism is a neutral system capable of doing good
i would say that people mistake its efficiency for goodness and its use naturally works toward the inherent efficiency of deprived laborers, ultimately slavery
the spread of prosperity in the usa was got by fighting capitalism's constant push for supremacy over democracy

[blindpig]

36. Good point

Efficiency is relative, is one merely measuring the productive output or is one maximizing the public good? That I think is the error that Soviet planners made and that was in contraindicative of the goals of a rational society.

But you misread me, capitalism is irredeemable.

[Make7]

65. Without the profit motive, surely no environmental or economic disasters can occur. ( n/t )

[blindpig]

66. I would not go so far....

just much less likely. There ain't no Utopia.

[Make7]

64. I'm not suggesting that capitalism is a neutral system.

I think that any system that a society implements on a large scale will tend to exacerbate inequalities in wealth, status, and power; whatever "ism" it might be. Some people in that society that are driven by desire for those things will succeed in attaining them and will use their influence to hold on to, and even amass more.

Many of the examples in the opening post attributed to capitalism could just as easily have happened in non-capitalist societies. If capitalism was somehow abolished today, whatever would replace it would have many of the same problems because the underlying problem is not merely the system of capitalism.

However, I do agree that capitalism tends to magnify some problems of large societies much more readily than most other systems. One look at Wall Street is all one needs to see how things can devolve into little else but chasing after money and power. However, there are capitalist countries that seem not to elicit the same anger that Wall Street engenders. Whereas the political system in America largely allows banks and large corporations to set the agenda, some countries are much more successful at not letting things get so out of balance.

Mostly I replied to the opening post because I thought it was a gross oversimplification of a very complex problem. If someone can tell me what should follow capitalism that would not have the same inherent inequalities and issues with over accumulation of wealth and power, I would gladly sign up. But if history is our guide, those issues will be with the human race for as long as it continues to exist.
 

[liberation]

43. Colonialism and Fascism are Capitalism taken to its logical extreme conclusions...

... the only reason why any capitalist would argue those are not "capitalist" systems, it may be due to PR concerns. Most definitively the person making such claim is not doing so under an intellectually honest agenda.

But I do agree, any system which imposes an extreme level of inequality, is by definition unsustainable. And yet, most human socioeconomic systems have always tend towards pyramidal organizations. Which almost without exception end up collapsing.


Time to evolve, I say. I am not a fan of "isms" both capitalism and communism have their flaws. It is the XXI century, and we should definitively stop pigeonholing our solutions in terms of systems designed in the XVI and XIX centuries respectively.

[kenfrequed]

52. But inequality is a function of capitalism

Without want, inequality, and greed the capitalist system doesn't function.

[tomm2thumbs]

19. I think all sides can agree it is... G R E E D

unmitigated, unrestricted pursuit of more and more in spite of collateral damage to the country or fellow citizens

[blindpig]

23. But how is it that greed runs amok?

Greed runs amok because it is sanctioned and encouraged by an economic system which thrives upon it, requires it to produce maximum profits.

[Stuart G]

21. K and R

[proudohioan]

24. YES!!! K&R!!! n/t

[blindpig]

25. Out the door kick

[Kievan Rus]

27. Greed is a social cancer

[blindpig]

31. Greed is an aspect of human behavior...

which is celebrated and rewarded by the capitalist system. It is a matter of scale, garden variety greed, eyed with disapproval by societies throughout history, just consider folk tales from damn near any culture, is contained by the normal workings of society. When you couple this behavior with the social power of overweening wealth, then you got a situation which gets you where we are.

[bluesmail]

28. It's either the end of the empire or the manifestation of One World Order.

aka NWO aka Fascism aka We're all screwed aka HA! It did take a while to accomplish, but hey we (sic) did it!

[Starry Messenger]

29. k & r

[autorank]

30. Greed & inefficiency plus an indifference to living things k*r n/t

[caraher]

32. My hope is that this may awaken people

The financial meltdown and the BP disaster are too big to ignore. The trouble is that people regard the system that spawned those disasters think essentially unregulated capitalism is "too big to fail."

The only way to save capitalism is to bring government back into it; otherwise, it will collapse under the weight of more and more disasters like the ones we've seen recently.

[blindpig]

35. Why save Capitalism?

What we are experiencing is not some perversion or aberation of capitalism, it is capitalism. This is what capitalism does, it seeks maximum profits and damn everything else. Regulation? How did that work out? The government is there to be manipulated, it is a cost of doing business. Bring government back into it? Government is up to it's nose in it now. Perhaps you misunderstand the power relationship, it is Capital which holds the whip hand, wealth is power.

We do not want to save capitalism, we want to bury it.

[caraher]

58. I'm not saying that *I* do

I'm saying that the folks invested in capitalism have waaaaay overplayed their hand, and if they're half as smart as they think they are they'll recognize that they need to walk it back...

[Turbineguy]

34. All of this points to

putting conservatives in charge since 1980. The latest bit is the hangover from Bush and it will continue for some time. George Bush was the natural successor to Reagan.

And Palin is the natural successor to Bush.

[HillbillyBob]

41. been saying such for years..shit since 82

no one listens even then the idiot dems oh runnyraygun is for small government. I personally know about their 'small' government and prying into my bedroom. Outed and ousted and then not able to get a job in civilian FAA because of my Admin under honorable discharge..oh and that standing on the side of the union against that demented bastard and the nazi bush sr ....

[scentopine]

37. The government has a giant pool of tax money and they are sending it

to Fortune 500 with love and a big big bow on top. After all that's what we elected Obama to do right?

[closeupready]

38. Wow, terrific summation.

K&R

[green917]

39. Capitalism is NOT Democracy!

Capitalism, contrary to the popular belief being sold to us by the media and our politicians, is antithetical to the practice of Democracy. They are, in fact, mutually exclusive because in a global capitalist society, profit is ALWAYS the motive and when that is the case, things like social services, empathy, civil liberties and anything gnostic or human in nature takes a back seat to the acquisition and maintenance of wealth by a very small minority of the citizenry. Greed ALWAYS has the upper hand in a free-market capitalist system.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

42. Capitalism has morphed into Corporatism

or maybe it always was, but now they aren't even attempting to hide it.

[liberation]

46. Corporatism is Capitalism...

It is a socioeconomic system in which the corporate interests are preserved/defended by the state even to the detriment of personal interests/rights. Corporations by definition are capitalistic organizations.

[blindpig]

48. Yes, they are not even trying to hide it anymore.

I've wondered a lot about this of late, three thing occur to me:

1) Capital must grow or die, and here is the internal contradiction, it cannot do this ad infinitum, there is only so much that can be invested in profitably. Of necessity they must become bolder and crazier. Production has become so efficient that manufacturing was becoming unprofitable, new 'opportunities' need be found. So we had the S&L debacle, the tech boom, the housing boom, the finance blowout. Now we got education being targeted as a profit making enterprise, health care is fenced off as a untouchable profit maker, under the code phrase of 'fiscal responsibility' governments are corporate enforcers putting the squeeze on the working class and the want our social Security. They got no choice, they are capitalists.

2)There is no opposition. Where are the Reds who forced FDR to provide a modicum of relief for the people and small bit of restraint for capital. There is no organized opposition, in or out of the halls of power. We must change that and it can only come from the ground up.
The demise of the Soviet Union further emboldened them, without a competing social system there is no longer any need to pander to the masses, they 'won' and now can do as they like.

3) They really believe that people are 'sheeple'. They are so full of themselves, are so sure that people are easily bought with bread and circuses, that they act with impunity. That'll get ya so far, but people will only take so much...

[happygoluckytoyou]

44. AND THIS IS HOW MONOPOLY IS PLAYED----> ---> ->

YOU START OUT ON EQUAL FOOTING (humans evolve from fish 1 bazillion years ago, or 6000 years jesustime)

YOU CIRCLE A BOARD

SOMEONE STARTS TO WIN

AFTER A WHILE ONE PLAYER HAS ALL THE MONEY.... everyone else circles the board, collects their $200 and pays it to the first property owner he encounters

..........................
AT THIS POINT.... ONE OF 2 THINGS HAPPENS

1) THE RICH GUY ALLOWS YOU TO OWE HIM FOREVER JUST TO KEEP THE GAME GOING

2) ALL THE POOR GUYS GO TO BED AFTER ANNOINTING THE WINNER KING OF THE UNIVERSE

3) YOU JUST KEEP GOING IN A CIRCLE ON AN ENDLESS BOARD UNTIL YOU DIE

...........................
give that there are always going to be wolves and sheep, lions and lambs.... WHAT WOULD IMPROVE THE GAME.....

1) MASSIVE GRADUATED TAXES WHICH LEVEL THE GAME

2) ADDING HUGE AMOUNTS OF EQUALLY DISTRIBUTED MONEY TO THE PLAYERS TO LEVEL THE RATIO OF WEALTH

3) ADDING A SECOND BOARD WITH NEW PROPERTIES TO PURCHASE, WITH THE ABILITY OF THE POOR PLAYERS TO GET IN ON THE PURCHASING

...........................

IN A NUTSHELL...... there is nothing wrong with competition and profit.... but when the game becomes OWNED it is because the GREAT EQUALIZER
(GRADUATED TAXES) IS NOT ON A STEEP ENOUGH ANGLE....

BRING BACK 90% TAXES FOR THE ULTRA WEALTHY
BRING BACK PROPERTY TAXES EVEN ON THE SOMEWHAT WEALTHY

REMIND THOSE ON TOP.... THAT THOSE ON THE BOTTOM ARE WHAT LIFTS THEM

[dotymed]

47. +90%

:kick:

[dionysus]

45. we sure know what you're against. how would your dream society operate?

[blindpig]

49. Take it up with those who do he implementing

First things first, we got enough on our plate as is.

[dionysus]

50. so basically you don't have the stones to say you want a communist society. gotcha.

[blindpig]

54. ohh, ohh, a throwdown..

Piss off.

Of course I want a communists society, but that was not what you asked.


To paraphrase the Old Man, I do not write recipe books for the cook-shops of the future. We got enough on our plates today.

[valerief]

51. Or it's the LACK of SOCIALISM. nt

[LanternWaste]

53. The age old pursuit of man's greed and want for more.

"Is there a common thread here?"

The historical and age-old pursuit of man's greed and want for more. Capitalism is I believe, but merely one additional way to achieve that.

[blindpig]

57. It is the most efficient means to date,

way too efficient at sending the fruits of labor all in one direction, to the ruling class. If it were 1200 CE I would be railing against feudalism.

[pauldp]

55. Unregulated Capitalism becomes organized crime. Rinse, repeat. nt

[blindpig]

56. All capitalism is organized crime.

The Mafia are pikers by comparison.

How do you regulate the Mafia?

[Catherina]

59. Rec'd yesterday. Bookmarked today. "Cold and conscienceless small-hearted men"

"...capitalism has often left a gulf between superfluous wealth and abject poverty, has created conditions permitting necessities to be taken from the many to give luxuries to the few, and has encouraged small-hearted men to become cold and conscienceless so that, like Dives before Lazarus, they are unmoved by suffering, poverty-stricken humanity."

—Martin Luther King

[branders seine]

60. K&R +1

They don't even try to pretend anymore that democracy is still operative.

[scarletwoman]

62. I wish I had I seen this in time to rec it. Exellent OP, great thread.

Not much I can think of to add, just that we have to kill capitalism before it kills us all.

The paradigm of capitalism is the paradigm of the cancer cell -- unchecked growth that eventually kills the host body.

sw

[blindpig]

63. Thanks, sw

It seems so obvious, when the coincidences start piling up they ain't coincidences anymore.