Adult student penalized for one curse word - a Mississippi Community College

[RamboLiberal]

The largest community college in Mississippi barred a 30-year-old student from a speech course because a professor became upset when the student uttered one curse word after class was over.

The Hinds Community College student was not accused of cursing, but rather with “flagrant disrespect on any person on college owned or controlled property.”

-----

Rosenbloom stayed after class to review a bad grade he got on a speech. At one point, he said, to another student, “This is going to going to (expletive) up my entire GPA.”

The teacher, Barbara Pyle, immediately became upset, by both her written account and Rosenbloom’s and told him he couldn’t speak like that. Rosenbloom said she told him she was sending him to “detention,” but he noted that there was no detention at community college for 30-year-old students.

Pyle reported him to the dean, and in her statement, said that Rosenbloom was not welcome back in her class. He also received 12 demerits—three short of suspension.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/higher-education/adult-student-penalized-for-cu.html

What a stupid overreaction by this teacher. Geez lady, this is not grade school!

[slackmaster]

1. Demolition Man imitates reality

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Wouldn't a simple, "Language" have sufficed? Jeez. I coach elementary school kids and I don't

turn them in for this stuff. Usually if you remind them not to do it they not only stop but are extremely embarrassed. :eyes:

[Echo In Light]

3. What a fuckin' asshole that teacher is

[Warpy]

4. Ms. Pyle needs to extract that pole from her arse

and realize she's not the moral arbiter of the universe, even that small part of the universe that is her speech class.

This is bogus on many levels, but especially since the student didn't show disrespect to anything or anyone, only dismay at what a poor grade would do to his average and his future chances.

If he is allowed to withdraw without penalty and take someone else's class next year, she might be doing him a favor by giving him a chance to improve his skills and his grade. If she is simply throwing a hissy fit and will fail him for the class, she needs to be fought tooth and nail over this one.

While it's politic to keep a lid on the f bomb in public, the only one who truly violated standards of public behavior is Ms. Pyle, for her gross overreaction. She was, after all, eavesdropping on a conversation that did not concern her.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

13. The pole up her arse has a pole up its arse!

[charlesg]

5. Hinds Community College policy: $25 fine for first time you say fvck. Third time: Suspension

HCC bans “public profanity, cursing and vulgarity,” which carries a fine of $25 for the first offense, $50 plus ten to fifteen demerits for the second offense, and suspension for the third offense"
http://www.firstamendmentcoalition.org/2010/05/mississippi-community-college-punishes-student-for-swearing-outside-of-class/

The ACLU said it has fought cases similar to Rosenbloom's before in the state, but never won.
http://www.wapt.com/news/23596541/detail.html

[Gidney N Cloyd]

6. "Detention"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Xithras]

7. I've thrown students out of my classes for being disrespectful.

College is not high school, and you are not required to be there. You're there because you WANT to be, and you're expected to act like it. Most college instructors and faculty, including myself, pretty much take a zero tolerance policy toward verbal abuse. We're not your parents, who are required by common morality to put up with your crap, and we're not your high school teachers, who were required by law to coddle you through your adolescent temper tantrums. College is a place for adults, and all discourse in the classroom should be respectful. Curse at me and you're done. As I told the last student I chucked from class, "You're free to come back when you grow up a little."

This teacher probably overreacted a bit if the one curse was truly the whole story, but many years in a college classroom tells me that there's probably more here than the student is admitting to (or, possibly, aware of). Nobody works at a college without overhearing at least a few curses an hour in general conversation, and this teacher would be tossing students left and right if that's all it took to get onto her bad side. Because she didn't, I'd guess that there was something to his demeanor or actions, or perhaps memories of earlier interactions with him, that set her off.

[SargeUNN]

12. but it was AFTER class and in a private discussion

your statement is about a statement made in class, and probably to yourself directly but the statement here was made AFTER class to ANOTHER student in a private conversation and didn't even address anyone but the student's GPA

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

15. now wait a minute

The use of the word "fuck" can and is often used as a form of sexual bullying, especially by men against women. After class is often considered a vulnerable environment by faculty because there is not a room full of witnesses and aggressive students can and will use that as an exploitable opportunity.

[intheflow]

16. Though this guy was tlaking about fucking up his own education.

He didn't direct the comment at anyone, and it certainly wasn't used to sexually harass or bully anyone.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

18. the law is not intent but perception

It's the teacher's class room and it is her right to report feeling intimidated or harassed. Administration may lighten or remove penalties to student at their discretion as well; you may disagree with it but it is the way it works.

[Confusious]

22. The law is all intent

You want to tell me that if I scream a profanity when I smash my finger, and someone comes walking by and hear it, I can get in trouble because they take offense?

That's a "smart" law. Right up there with carrying firearms into a bar.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

29. you aren't reading closely

The student wasn't penalized by the law but by the school. I was speaking of the legal guidelines for sexual harassment and intimidation lawsuits and academic institutions' reactions to such cases.

[LiberalVoice]

30. Why are you bringing up sexual harassment?

Sexual harassment has ZERO to do with his comment. You're only adding confusion to the discussion.

[Confusious]

32. In the law

sexual harassment is intent, not perception, though it has a different standard for intent.

This is complete overreaction, the same thing we've been hearing from everywhere else these days.

[Confusious]

20. WTF are you talking about? nt

[SargeUNN]

25. f---ing GPA? Stretch is just too great to accept.

I guess I should also disclose that I attended Pearl River Community College in Poplarville Ms. and Gulf Coast Community College at the Gautier Mississippi campus, so I am more than aware of the atmosphere of these colleges including Hinds. I can tell you from first hand knowledge that I many times heard such a statement made in front of teachers at both colleges after a class, and the teacher would usually say something like well let's discuss this. I did have one teacher who refused to give me a decent grade on any paper I wrote, and so I went and talked to the teacher. She was steadfast that I wouldn't get an acceptable grade no matter what. I withdrew from the class and had to take it another time, and oddly enough I not only made an "A" but the next teacher tried to encourage me to go into the field. Sounds like this teacher was like the one I had. No matter what the teacher had a bias against him for some reason. That is the way it often works in Mississippi.

[Warpy]

27. It was not in this case

and it's disingenuous to bring up such a red herring.

[SargeUNN]

28. your opinion however

I read it in the article posted so guess the writer was disingenuous as well.

[Xithras]

21. There isn't enough information in the article to know the context

The article says that the student stayed after class to talk to the teacher. The article also says that he made the comment to another student. It doesn't say how, and in what order the events happened. If the student was talking to the teacher and then turned to make the comment to another student, or if the student said it loudly to another student as he walked out of the class after talking to the teacher, it could be taken as a slur against the teacher.

"This is going to fuck up my entire GPA".

Did the "This" refer to the grade, or to the teachers refusal to change it? Was it a slur aimed at his own work, or an accusation against the teacher for not listening to his plea for leniency?

"'My bad grade' is going to fuck up my entire GPA"
"'Her refusal to change my grade' is going to fuck up my entire GPA"

One is a comment. One is an accusation. Making a profanity laced accusation against your instructor, to a fellow student in class, and within earshot of the instructor herself, would have been enormously disrespectful and would have been seen as combative. Is that what happened here? There's no way to know, because the article doesn't provide enough context to determine which is really the case.

Conveniently, schools are prohibited from discussing disciplinary measures with the public (educational records, including disciplinary actions, are protected under federal law), so we're only going to get one side of this story.

[Confusious]

23. I've been combative with teachers

We had an assigned book to read for class.

After reading it, I didn't like the book she gave us and told her it was bullshit.

She laughed.

[Xithras]

33. That's not combative.

And very few college instructors would have a problem with that statement. We don't require that students like our assignments, only that they complete them. That they sometimes sprinkle their comments with colorful commentary is to be expected.

"Combative" is the student who called me a "fucking know-nothing idiot who teaches because he can't get a real job", and who went on to rant about how I was probably a dweeb on a revenge trip because guys like him use to "kick your asses on a daily basis in high school", in front of an entire classroom full of students, simply because he was angry over a poorly graded assignment last semester.

Yeah, I kicked him out. Insulting, disrespectful, and mildly threatening. That's combative.

The real definition is a bit simpler though. Was it the students intent to intimidate, demean, or slur the instructor? If so, then it's a valid cause for permanent ejection. None of those things have any place in a college classroom.

By the way, this is another reason why I record all my lectures. Every conversation I have in a room with my students is digitally logged. I've never understood why more teachers don't do this.

[RoyGBiv]

24. "Whole Story"

That's my question. I very much doubt the whole story is printed here. Of course, it could be, in which case the teacher is a bit of a nut. Her suggestion of "detention" is clearly the mark of someone not quite all there given the setting. Perhaps she was a afraid.

Still ...

Having worked in a CC setting, I can testify to the fact that verbal and threatened physical abuse by students is a chronic problem. It almost always goes the same way in my personal experience. I tell the student something they don't want to hear. Profanity ensues. I request they stop. They don't and in most cases take my request as a challenge. I then break contact and avoid direct confrontation. I've had them then throw furniture, spit, threaten other types of violence, etc. But, interestingly, this is never what gets them kicked out. This all usually happens because they're upset in the moment about something they can't control but believe they should, and I prefer to give them a chance to calm down and not ever do it again, which is normally the case. What gets them in serious trouble is what happens in the days and weeks that follow. A student who has thrown a phone at me (and missed thankfully) may get a tag on his student account and be forced into a counseling session. But he's now "marked" as someone who does these things, and it all begins with a little off-hand, profane comment. I will be very sensitive to such things in the future.

I've had a student suspended for persistent abuse of one of my co-workers. Or, I should say, I recommended to the Dean he be suspended, and he was. It start mildly, went to things like standing in the hall and staring, walking by the office and saying under his breath "fucking c**t", etc. The specific incident that resulted in suspension was him saying, "That's fucking stupid." Little thing, right? No. It was the last thing in a long series of things that were intended as intimidation of one of my co-workers. He knew this stuff upset her, always avoided coming to our office unless she was the only one there, and did his damnedest to make her life a living hell. If a news story had been written up about that suspension and went entirely on that single incident report, it would come across as about as silly as this one does.

Now, once again, I will say that this teacher did overreact if this *is* the whole story. I simply suspect it is not.

[Xicano]

8. Mr. Hand?

[Initech]

9. Fuck that shit.

[KonaKane]

10. What the fuck was that, Mrs. Pyle?

Oh woops, did that slip out?

Follow up question: I heard you had a son in the Marines some time ago. Ended up being a singer. How's he doin'?

[Puregonzo1188]

11. I've had several professors drop the F-Bomb, both outside of class and during

a class discussion!

What should happen to them?

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

17. the difference is context, fer chrissakes

Look, it's pretty simple: is the language used aggressively to intimidate another person? There's a huge difference between an African-American studies professor quoting the song "Fuck the Police" while lecturing or a bio-ethics teacher upset at the gusher to say "British Petroleum is a bunch of criminal fucking clowns"; it is an entirely different matter for an adult male student to confront a teacher after class and use the word "fuck" when complaining about a grade.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. Oh, for Fuck's Sake.

Fuckitty Fuck Fuck Fucking Idiocy.

[Confusious]

19. Yeesh

I would have been banned day one, hour one, 5 minutes into class. ( I gotta have some time to find a seat )

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. An art instructor once told me to go to hell because I was late to class.

He was a graduate student.

I immediately went to the Dean of the Art Department's office and complained to him about it.

Of course, he did nothing about it. His grad student was probably busy sucking up so he could be real professor some day.

This was at a state university, the University of Houston.

[Canuckistanian]

31. I had professors who swore on several occasions

Not often, but hey, college is a place for adults. And sometimes, adults swear.

If this professor has moral outrage for inappropriate language, then she shouldn't be in a profession where she has to deal with adult situations and all that entails.