Replace BP with the entire International Oil Industry, and an ARMADA of SKIMMERS to get BUSY!

[ShamelessHussy]

And put the U.S. Gov in charge with the U.S. military responsible for logistics and land operations, ASAP.

how's that for just 1 retort to their latest, SNARKY and unbelievably condescending, talking point? "Replace BP with what?"

Talk - Action = Shit

[mzteris]

1. Let's just call Dumbledore

and have him magically fix things.

:eyes:

[Swamp Rat]

3. That kind of sentiment is not helpful to us here in Louisiana.

Please think about what you are saying.

[mzteris]

10. where else are you going to get this ARMADA

you keep talking about?


If you want suggestions, you need to be realistic. Wishing it ain't gonna fix it, ya know?

[Swamp Rat]

11. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!? Don't you give a fuck about us in Louisiana???

I am a REAL HUMAN BEING. Not some abstract collection of photons.

[mzteris]

15. Nothing is wrong with me.

I DO care. I just see this blame game and wishful thinking crap as completely useless.

You want something done? Then stop posting absolute BULLSHIT about the topic.

[Swamp Rat]

26. "Then stop posting absolute BULLSHIT about the topic." - What bull shit are you talking about?

C'mon, WHAT BULL SHIT?? This?:

[mzteris]

35. No.

Saying that "nothing is being done". All the stupid bullshit blaming obama for doing or not doing some THING or another. For claiming that there is some sort of CONSPIRACY on the part of everyone on the planet who doesn't agree with "particular posters". Implying that I don't give a damn about NO or the GUlf - hell, I grew up swimming the in Gulf! - just because I vehemently disagree with the stupid crap being posted.

Do you really know what IS being done? Do you know how many military personnel have been sent there? Equipment? Do you understand the LAWS that govern just how and what CAN be done? This IS a democratic country, not a dictatorship - not one of convenience. No, we can't just TAKE OVER BP. Yes, we ARE doing something. A whole lot of something. Yes, there are REASONS that some of the things that have happened, happened the way that they did - without any freaking conspiracy. does anyone bother to find out what is the truth or do they just keep posting knee-jerk crap they heard on fox news?

Do you want obama in a f'ing flight suit strutting around? WTF FOR? IT doesn't do a gd thing. Do you want the APPEARANCE of Leadership or real leadership taking place out of the glare of the gd media which - if it reports anything - is hell bent on reporting the garbage that gets people to tune in and not on reporting any of the facts. The song DIRTY LAUNDRY ring a bell?

I just posted an entire ream about what the military alone has done and is doing. Not one person even responded. Did you know any of that? Did you know that that many people were in place? Did you know the equipment and the work that is already being done? Did you? Have you given ONE IOTA of credit to anyone in the Obama administration for ANY THING? Or are just a gd JINDAL cheerleader because he happened to say and/or possibly do one gd thing "right"? (and I don't think he DID much of anything really- maybe he did. Maybe he has a conscious under all of his idiocy. Doesn't mean I'm going to support him.)

Instead of continually posting pictures of a dead bird designed to make people FEEL BAD, (and it loses it's effect after the third or fourth time so you really should post different pics...) why don't you post information based in FACT on what IS being done. And FACTS about what needs to be done. Not "wishful thinnking". Not idle speculation. Not pointing fingers and frothing at the mouth. NOT CHEERING THE GD MF IDIOTS WHOSE IDEOLOGY HELPED THIS TO HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE!

[Swamp Rat]

38. I will not take your verbal abuse without a response.

You insinuate and accuse me of a lot of things with no evidence. I will make sure to give you a piece of my mind, but now is not the time.

And yes, I think Obama should come down here in a fucking hazmat suit with a shovel. WE NEED REAL LEADERSHIP!

[mzteris]

63. You accuse ME?

That's rich.

I don't think you have a piece of mind to spare, btw.

[Swamp Rat]

67. Heartless...

Join the ranks of the soulless.

[mzteris]

68. looks like something my

eleven year old would do with photoshop. ..

I'm not heartless. I'm not soulless. I'm also not illogical.

[Swamp Rat]

69. The emptiness you feel inside must be horrible... I pity you.

[mzteris]

70. sorry. Your attempt at putting me down isn't working.

Kinda like the rest of the crap you spew out.

[Swamp Rat]

I hope people read the contents of your posts and not just the subject lines

[mzteris]

75. me, too.n/t

[Swamp Rat]

76. Ok, now for a piece of my mind, albeit brief:

I have met people like you before, some here and some in person. Normally I disregard childish insults from those who lack knowledge or wisdom, especially when it comes from someone who does not matter to me. Yes, I've read your threads - the best thread you ever created was "Mods - can we have a "we hate Obama" group" - pitiful at best.

I, too, really hope people read your comments here so they can measure every ounce of vitriol gushing from the depths of your dark mind:

You speak to me, a victim of an ongoing disaster, as if I have little or no worth.

You chide and harass without indiscretion and shame.

You disregard my humanity for the sake of inane political posturing.

You act as if you know more than others when it is clear that you do not.

You really do not care about the feelings of others or else you would not have continued this conversation up to this point with such a negative tenor.

Now, I am done, and you can have the last word because I know you really need it.

[mzteris]

77. I came in here to apologize to you

I haven't even read this post to me yet, but I will.

I reacted badly to your comments up thread and I let things get personal. I should not have criticized your art. That was very wrong. Obviously you communicate much through your pictures and your art and I shouldn't have made that part of my critique of you.

I understand that you are VERY upset with the situation. I would be even more upset about the whole thing than I am now (and yes, I am) if I were still living on/near the Gulf. I completely do understand your frustration.

Sometimes I become way too focused on "logic" and forget about the emotions of people. I, personally, don't think that should be an excuse for failing to look at the "whole picture" of things. To look from the outside in and to remove oneself FROM situations - - - but I forget that not all people CAN do that. This comment is not meant as any further criticism of you or those who are being more on the emotional end about it. It is more a criticism of myself for failing to take human emotion into consideration.

I think, too, that because of the many trolls on DU who ARE "just obama bashing" - period - I tended to react to everyone's post in the same vein. That you only wanted to find "what was wrong" and not give one tiny nod to anything possibly done right. I don't want to think you're just one of those "haters" who is hoping and cheering for Obama's failure in office. I'm sorry I lumped you in with those people and treated you as such. You deserve better treatment than that, and I'm sorry.

I'll read your post to me now and I probably deserve (just about) everything you say. Though I will tell you true, I DO care about what has happened. I am not a corporatist nor an apologist (though I can see why some may think that). My - approach - to things ARE not quite what most NT's are used to.

And I am very sorry I behaved in such a juvenile manner in posting to you - especially under the circumstances.

[Swamp Rat]

78. I am terribly sorry too

:cry: ... i am losing it right now. i dumped it all on you today... so sorry

edit: i have been so angry this past week, this is the first time i have been able to cry... thank you

i cant write right now

[ShamelessHussy]

40. all you got is straw-men and PR - tell it to this man - VIDEO

BP Oil Spill: Frustrated Plaquemines Parish President Nungesser Lashes Out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jQUfOZTK-Y

[Swamp Rat]

41. I experienced this same sort of thing during Katrina.

I was told my city was not worth saving just as it was filling up with water, for example. I got hit from the political left and right at the same time for various, abstract reasons.

The cruelty of others never ceases to amaze me.

[ShamelessHussy]

43. i was truly shocked by the response to Katrina, and the lame ass folks trying to defended it

both on the left and the right. :puke:

some folks are simply paid shills on the iInternet, others are just mindless follower wannabees, and some really pathetic freaks just like to try to get a rise out of people, especially when they don't have to say it to their face.

the eternal optimist in me, likes to think that these freaks may actually provide some value, in the unwitting role of 'devils advocate'. When responding to their pitiful posts just consider all the other folks who may read your reply, and actually learn from it, in that way it may help you to keep your cool (not always though) and allow you to put some more useful information out there to a wider audience.

I know it can be hard at times like these, when life and death are at stake and you just want to slap the snot out of them, but just remember what a wise man once said... 'never argue in public with a fool, as an onlooker won't be able to tell the difference'... so when you get to the part where you just want to cuss and scream at them, just move on, as there will always be more meat out there to practice your generous information sharing skills on ;)

best wishes swamp rat, i am a big fan of your art, and i really appreciate your indefatigable efforts to pass the word :hug: :toast:

[Swamp Rat]

49. .

:hug:

[ShamelessHussy]

12. the oil industry, the military, the international community

hello

[mzteris]

14. do you know how many are already there?

do you know how many exist in the whole world?

Why would the military even have them?

How could we "commandeer" them from the "international community?

Hello . . .

[ShamelessHussy]

17. i haven't seen any pictures of fleets, have you?

"do you know how many exist in the whole world?
a lot more than BP has

Why would the military even have them?
to deal with oil disasters in the Persian gulf, and here at home (remember the gulf wars, 911?) the military has it's own tankers, too.

How could we "commandeer" them from the "international community?
we wouldn't, we would just accept their offers of help. we would only commandeer domestic ones who were unwilling to help with this catastrophe.

I hope that helps :hi:

[mzteris]

19. when you have some answers,

why don't you get back to me.

Hint: Google is your friend. :)

[ShamelessHussy]

20. i just gave you a bunch

[mzteris]

24. no, you didn't.

There ARE "skimmers" there. A whole damn lot. Even the "military ones" you cited. (My comment earlier was specifically about why would they have an ARMADA of them, but no matter.)

There's a whole lot more being done than you're giving credit for. So either you don't know, or are deliberately trying to make it seem like "OBama" is doing nothing.

Here's ONE little article dated May SEVENTH:

Military Support Continues on Gulf Coast
Office of the Secretary of Defense Public Affairs

WASHINGTON - Military support continues May 7 as part of an interagency response force that's working to clean up an oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

The Air Force flew six aerial spray operation sorties May 6 with C-130 Hercules aircraft to help in neutralizing the oil spill with dispersing agents. Ten more sorties are scheduled in the coming days, Pentagon spokesman Army Lt. Col. Robert Ditchey said May 7.

The two C-130 crews are assigned to the 910th Airlift Wing's 757th Airlift Squadron based at Youngstown Air Reserve Station, Ohio. They are deployed to and operating out of Stennis International Airport, Miss.

Meanwhile, the Navy is sustaining logistical support, equipment and assistance in skimming and salvage operations. The Navy has provided 66,000 feet of inflatable oil boom with mooring equipment, 16 rapid deployment skimmer systems and 44 contractors to assist in the efforts.

The Naval Construction Battalion Center in Gulfport, Miss., has received the Navy equipment at the Mississippi State Dock. The equipment will be deployed as necessary. On-scene coordinators in support of the Department of Homeland Security and the Coast Guard are coordinating this effort, Ditchey said.

Also, Naval Air Station Pensacola, Fla., is acting as a staging facility for BP contractor-provided equipment, such as containment booms, recovery barges, tractor-trailer trucks, pumps and other equipment, he added.

...The governors of Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida and Alabama have declared states of emergency. More than 1,000 National Guard Soldiers and Air National Guard personnel have been called to action along the Gulf Coast.

http://www.dvidshub.net/?script=news/news_show.php&id=49297

[ShamelessHussy]

28. woefully inadequate - when i see invasion size fleets in the sea, and armies of people on land

with international teams as well as the rest of the oil industry, then I might be convinced there efforts matches the scale of the catastrophe.

no one is debating that NOTHING is being done, folks are complaining that not ENOUGH is being done, and that too much concern is being given to BP's PR efforts.

hopefully you can understand that?

[mzteris]

36. When you wish upon a star.........

oh brother.

[ShamelessHussy]

37. so this is just a big joke to you, icu

[laughingliberal]

54. Of course. No oil on their front porch

[mzteris]

62. no.

the crazed hyperbole is - just crazed.

(Stole this phrase from another poster today. It fits.)

[ShortnFiery]

72. Many of us can fully understand your perspective. We need to mobilize the USA and the world ...

to come to the aid of our brothers and sisters on the Gulf Coast. Yes, I'm with you. :hi:

[laughingliberal]

53. "The equipment will be deployed as necessary"

I'd say 'now' would be good.

[mzteris]

65. more stuff you probably didn't know.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8410129

[Skidmore]

74. It is not to the advantage of BP's competitors to step in and help

them do anything but tank as a company.

[merh]

48. You really should try to do some legitimate research before spouting

off and mocking others.

Here, go read this post.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8396024&mesg_id=8396462

I think this article alone proves that the resources are there, have been offered and are being ignored.\http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/gulf-oil-spill-supertankers-051310

The Dutch are not our enemies and we won't accept their offers to help.

Sure, accepting help from Hugo would piss of the righties but who the hell cares. If it stops the destruction it would be worth it, don't ya think?

I even think working on a common project to help the planet is a step towards peace, it is a good thing that would do more than any bit of diplomacy one could imagine. I think taking Iran up on their offers to help is a great idea.

I also think we should accept the help of every nation that offered help. A world event solved by the nations working together, what a fucking amazing thing.

There was this plan suggested. The Army was to be implementing it, I don't know what happened to the plan or if they are testing this somewhere.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8341754

[Swamp Rat]

73. That would be refreshing.

:)

[laughingliberal]

51. The Dutch have a number of skimmers available they have offered us

But, they return the treated sea water back to the ocean with a small amount of oil (5%) in it and the EPA thinks that's too much...

They are on standby in case we get our thumbs out of our butt and figure out that 5% oil in the water reaching the shore beats 100%.

[mzteris]

64. I agree that it seems like we should just grab those

skimmers and use them. Makes sense to me.

But there is a little thing called the law in the US. I've asked this question and no one has answered it - by what authority and how can we "suspend" regulations in this special circumstance? Can Obama jsut demand it? Does Congress have to vote on it?

See, here's the thing. If we just "did it" without regard to the regs, then the future of the regs - put in place for good reason, become less enforceable. AND, let's suppose for a moment that just MAYBE those "Dutch skimmers" AREN'T the "right thing to do" - though to we laymen, it certainly SEEMS like a good idea - but if they weren't a good idea and we just "did it" 'cause we THOUGHT it would be a good idea and turned out it WASN'T - then the self-same people screaming for them to be USED DAMMIT would be the SAME ONES SCREAMING -0 WELL!! We should have thought it through better!!!!!

THAT's my problem here. People just want to DO SOMETHING when sometimes that SOME THING might just be the wrong damn thing to do. Ya know?

Now it does seem, to me, that getting rid of 95% is much better than not at all, but I'm not an expert on the subject. And you know what? Not one damn one of the screamers on here are either.

:shrug:

I, however, trust the man I voted for to do what needs to be done and to listen to the EXPERTS who DO know wtf they're doing. And no, for the record, I do NOT buy in to the corporate sellout conspiracy theory.

[JBoy]

2. So you want all the BP engineers to go home?

[readmoreoften]

4. No. I want BP engineers under the command of the US government without regard for BP's bottom line,

BP's public image, or anything BP related. And everyone should be paid by BP's assets, which should be seized. Let's get these folks in a situation where they can do the best job possible without any pressure from CEOs and economic hitmen.

[JBoy]

6. Thanks, but I was asking the OP.

[ShamelessHussy]

8. this is a public discussion board, and this is a public catastrophe that is EVERYONES business

and I am in agreement with their post as a matter of fact.

[laughingliberal]

52. +1000 nt

[Lorien]

58. +1,000.

[Swamp Rat]

5. What we want in Louisiana is for Obama to seize control of BP operations before they kill us.

[ShamelessHussy]

7. hell no - i want the Gov in charge, and i want the whole industry to respond!

and I want to see us accept all international aid.

NOW

[JBoy]

9. Thanks, just wanted to understand what "Replacing BP" meant.

[ShamelessHussy]

13. my pleasure

[phleshdef]

16. I don't really see the point until the gusher is plugged.

Everything else is somewhat futile until that happens and the petroleum engineering industry has the only people that seem to be capable of it, if its even possible between now and the time a relief well is completed.

[ShamelessHussy]

18. they should be focused on the oil threatening the coasts, which is already too late for some

containment, and sucking up the oil that has already spilled should also be a top priority.

[phleshdef]

23. They HAVE BEEN focused on that.

U.S. Naval Air Station Serves as Staging Facility

At the request of the Coast Guard, the U.S. Navy provides Naval Air Station Pensacola as a staging facility for BP-contractor provided equipment (i.e. containment booms, recovery barges, tractor trailer trucks, various pumps and other related oil response equipment).

Oil Cleanup Efforts Continue to Build in Louisiana
Response personnel and Shoreline Cleanup and Assessment Teams, along with hundreds of volunteers, continue to clean the Louisiana coastal areas impacted by the Deepwater BP oil spill. Approximately 400 people, more than 300 vessels and 45 aircraft are on-scene in Iberia, Jefferson, Lafourche, Plaquemines, and Terrebonne Parishes investigating reports of oil, cleaning impacted areas and evaluating response efforts to ensure the oil is removed with the most environmentally responsible methods.

Response crews and Shoreline Cleanup and Assessment Teams have positioned more than half a million feet of boom in the region. They are manually removing oil with shovels and rakes, skimming the oil off the surface, applying dispersant and conducting controlled burning operations at every opportunity to minimize coastal impact.

Additional response personnel and equipment is being surged into areas where modeling and aerial surveillance indicate a greater potential for shoreline impact. Anyone who locates oil on the shore should avoid contact and report the sighting to [phone].

By the Numbers to Date:
- Personnel were quickly deployed and more than 22,000 are currently responding to protect the shoreline and wildlife.

- More than 1,150 vessels are responding on site, including skimmers, tugs, barges, and recovery vessels to assist in containment and cleanup efforts—in addition to dozens of aircraft, remotely operated vehicles, and multiple mobile offshore drilling units.

- More than 1.73 million feet of containment boom and 730,000 feet of sorbent boom have been deployed to contain the spill—and approximately 275,000 feet of containment boom and 1.25 million feet of sorbent boom are available.

- Approximately 10.2 million gallons of an oil-water mix have been recovered.

- Approximately 785,000 gallons of total dispersant have been deployed—685,000 on the surface and 100,000 subsea. More than 340,000 gallons are available.

- 17 staging areas are in place and ready to protect sensitive shorelines, including: Dauphin Island, Ala., Orange Beach, Ala., Theodore, Ala., Panama City, Fla., Pensacola, Fla., Port St. Joe, Fla., St. Marks, Fla., Amelia, La., Cocodrie, La., Grand Isle, La., Shell Beach, La., Slidell, La., St. Mary, La.; Venice, La., Biloxi, Miss., Pascagoula, Miss., and Pass Christian, Miss.

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/doc/2931/543771/

[ShamelessHussy]

27. woefully inadequate

once i see images/video of fleets the size of an invasion force out there, made up of an international force, i will not feel that they are doing enough.

and a link to a PR site is not gonna convince me otherwise either.

[phleshdef]

31. What the "invasion force" going to do?

I don't think you understand how this oil gusher thing works. The oil isn't just all floating around in nice accessible little puddles that people can ride around and swoop up, like you are cleaning a big swimming pool.

And to say the response is "inadequate" is just sad lack of reality comprehension. 22,000 people is almost a quarter of the forces we have in Iraq or in Afghanistan. Thats a pretty huge response. But that number doesn't really fly with what you are trying to push.

Dismissing it because its a "link to a PR site" is petty. People yell for transparency but then the government keeps an up to date response timeline shown at all times on the web and suddenly you act like you won't trust it because its a "PR site". Then you expect others to place credibility in your opinion.

[ShamelessHussy]

34. suck up, and contain the oil where possible, build berms and other breaks, and cleanup where require

believe me there is plenty to do, and because this lack of equipment and man power even more beaches are gonna be destroyed.

and yes, a lot of oil is out there floating around, they even build special ships called skimmers just for that very purpose.

when i see a massive fleet out there, and armies on the land, that come from all of the oil industry, and the international aid offered, then i may change my opinion, but until then, no PR site will do it.

sorry, but I require independent reporting on these major incidents, as industry and gov have lost most of their credibility a very long time ago, and have only continued to confirm that assessment year after year.

just because you are willing to take them at their word despite the lack of evidence, and contradicting reporting from independent sources is your prerogative, but don't be surprised when others wont.

[phleshdef]

39. By your silly standards, we can't believe government numbers on anything.

Not the deficit, not how much a bill costs, not how many troops are deployed in Iraq, none of that. What a cheap cop out to run away from having to admit that you are wrong.

[ShamelessHussy]

42. one of the first lessons of being a wise consumer of information is to consider the source

I'm sure that may appear silly to some, but i suspect that would be a tiny minority.

[phleshdef]

44. Ok fine. Sources considered. My source has more credibility than you.

Decision made.

[ShamelessHussy]

46. I don't believe I gave you any sources, but apparently you only need 1 to make up your mind

fyi: single sourcing is another poor example

[laughingliberal]

56. Not trust the government to tell us the truth? Perish the thought! eom

[laughingliberal]

55. Uh, no. It's a good idea to try to keep as much from reaching shore as possible.

Hell, we could lose a couple of states if they do nothing til this is plugged!

[PufPuf23]

21. Early on the Dutch offered us oil skimming ships

and they were refused because they left too much residue in the outflow.

It is blatantly obvious to me that the more wild crude that can be collected closest to the gusher the better for the ecosystem and more efficiency.

This is the same technology used by our "allies" the Saudis.

[ShamelessHussy]

22. i bet they weren't the only ones. It is very strange that we don't see a much larger, and internatio

international effort.

it should look like an invasion force out there, imho.

[phleshdef]

25. You also have to understand that this oil isn't all near the accessible surface.

A lot of it can't be dealt with until its closer to land because then its spottable and accessible.

[ShamelessHussy]

29. of course, but a lot is. this is an all hands on deck situation, and I am not seeing that kinda

response, yet.

hopefully, as more raise their voices they will get the message.

[PufPuf23]

30. The crude is more dispersed then and by design because of the dispersance

being sprayed that in fact are poisonous eyewash that in dispersing the pollution make it harder to collect, less utility on collection, and are mostly PR to reduce the visual impact by adding more poison.

You post alot but are not much the scientist. I do not mean this as an insult but food for thought.

[phleshdef]

33. Dude, you just seriously butchered the hell out of the english language.

The hell you say?

[lonestarnot]

45. Leave him alone.

[PufPuf23]

32. I would hope for a WWII-style FDR response

Keep BP but with federal "minders" that are qualified scientists to start.

I wish our country more the team player with less hubris.

[tranche]

47. How would interning Japanese people help an oil spill?

[Lorien]

59. The real reason was probably that BP would be asked to reimburse them for expenses

as long as BP is in charge they can do nothing that doesn't fulfill their fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders.

[laughingliberal]

60. That's the winning answer. Their profits and stock prices are their #1 priority...

and all solutions offered them will be filtered through that.

[Lagomorph]

50. Got an Armada handy?

Give the US government another international responsibility? Give the US military another mission and another fleet?

Can you hear Mexico, Cuba & Venezuela yelling HELL NO? (for starters)

[laughingliberal]

57. K & R nt

[Yavin4]

61. What Makes You Think That The Entire Oil Industry Has Any Better Solutions?

This is an unprecedented spill, and commanding the entire oil industry to do something would probably make things a lot worse as egos and heads clash.

[ShamelessHussy]

66. clean up, containment, skimming, for a few

the problem is not just stopping the oil flow, it is dealing with all that has already escaped.

[ShortnFiery]

71. Excellent Ideas! Start the clean-up at full bore.

:thumbsup: