Democracy Quietly Euthanized

[Scuba]

ES&S quietly purchased Diebold last fall, giving them 80% of market for electronic voting machings. And it's not just the un-auditable vote-counting; they now also own polling place check-in software (electronic pollbooks), voter registration software and vote-by-mail authentication software.

http://www.benalexandra.com/cool_stuff/diebold_ess.htm

This link has very scary information, all with appropriate citations, regarding what could easily be a mass-manipulation of our elections.

[RandomThoughts]

1. Any ideas of what rules applied back would be for those that steal elections?

It would be done in secret, so that would have to be exposed.

The attempt to steal an elections should fail to have an effect on an election, that might be rules applied back. Since an attempt to steal votes should lose votes, that might be simpler.

[Scuba]

2. The phrase "rules applied back" ....

... is not one that is familiar to me, so I'm afraid I've missed your point.

I don't see how one would lose authority just because they stole the election. Bush stole the 2000 election for sure, and probably the 2004 election also, and he had all the authority he wanted.

[RandomThoughts]

3. I was thinking on forms of justice.

It would be possible to say someone did something and assign a punishment or modification from that. But that would require judgement and action, something that does not seem to match perfect justice and love.

It seems both in Karma, and reap what you sow, the idea of rules applied back, fits into justice.

If a person does something then they create a set of rules that should be applied to them. So each person judges themselves by what they think is best. By that concept a person does not have to judge another, but can just have people have the same rules they apply to other people, applied back to them.

Much of it is intent based, not effect based, but in concept, the idea makes alot of sense and is in many places. So it is possible to live in kindness without ever having to be mean to someone if all meanness is from rules applied back, however the 'when' of when the effect occurs, in many cases, would be delayed to give the highest probability of someone learning a rule set that is a better action.

So the rules or judgements a person makes, are the ones that will effect them, but only after given every chance to make as many things correct as they can by learning. And the fact that it happens has to be in concept not in day by day life so people do not just do for reasons of self, but for better reasons.

It seems like a pretty good way of justice existing at some point without having to ever be mad or mean to someone.

Although in life the rules would not always manifest themselves, since that would make it difficult for people to learn, because it would be a coercion system, and a heart can not change under coercion, so the effect has to be at some point later after all kindness is used to try and help a person think and feel on things.

In life the free will of people create effects, so some mostly good people have a harder time, and some mostly bad people have it easy, but at some point, rules applied back seems to maintain the concept of perfect love with perfect judgement in thinking on spiritual existence. Although it is only my thoughts on things, and could be correct or wrong, but is how I think on it to make sense of things in the now and after.

[Scuba]

4. Well, what's the punishment for treason? ....

... I suggest the maximum punishment be meted out to anyone convicted of rigging (or trying to rig) an election. And yes, that goes from the CEO of ES&S, the candidates they fudge votes for, the programmers that rigged the software, etc.

Treason, pure and simple.

[Senator]

5. +1

[BeFree]

6. OMG

Now that is the fastest way to get rid of most incumbents.

I like it.

Exit polls caught the thievery, in 20000 and 04. Rove has an editorial floating around about his feeling that exit polls should be done away with? Karl Rove hates exit polls?

I wonder why?

[RandomThoughts]

7. Treason is a construct of the system in question.

For instance to be treasonous in one system would be good, in some other system bad.

So treason without qualification of the system means nothing when considering that concept. The real point is those that steal elections do not believe in representative democracy, and they think a totalitarian system is better. So they do not think of it as treason, they even go as far as to call people that call them out on doing things like that as the bad people. That is the opposite way of thinking from representative democracy, and how people telling the truth can be labeled as problems by totalitarian systems.

It is really interesting and goes to how people in opposite sides of belief systems think on things.


In your concept treason is within the concept of representative democracy.

Treason is two parts, one part going against a system, then also saying a system is a better system and should be supported.

I think systems of representative democracies are better systems, so it sorta makes sense that it is treason to steal elections. Maybe both in law and concept.

[jotsy]

8. This topic in its entirety is at the heart of one of our high profile DUers regular work load.

The BradBlog has done a lot of work on this that might be of interest, if you're not already familiar.

This is a two and a half minute video to get a feel.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wgVOd8tjyw>

K and R

[bvar22]

9. Silly Rabbit!

Elections are way too important to be left up to The People.

About 20 years ago, The Two Political Parties reached a "bi-partisan consensus" to share the power.
They will rotate figureheads through the White House every 8 years to maintain the illusion of choice, but NOTHING that really matters will ever change....MONEY will continue to flow to the TOP.

Over 92% of ALL Americans (Democrats & Republicans) support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445

[Quantess]

15. I like that poster.

:kick:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

10. Holy smokes.

:(

[Octafish]

11. You are correct. ES&S Owners are Big Time Holy Rollers

How George Bush Won the 2004 Presidential Election

Friday, 18 July 2003, 10:38 am
Sandeep Atwal
Scoop.co.nz

EXCERPT...

Helping America Vote Right

"The Christian worldview is the answer. We need Christian statesmen who press for the Crown Rights of Jesus Christ in all areas of life. This isn't political salvation or an overnight fix. It will take decades of mobilization and confrontation to undo a century of godless socialism. It must be a grassroots movement that starts in individual families and churches and then moves outward to take dominion. It must encompass every area of life and not just the political arena. Finally, it must start soon, for there isn't much time left. The Florida elections have taught us that the Democrats with their liberal/socialistic worldview will stop at nothing to seize control of the government."
-- Dr. Val Finnell, published by the Chalcedon InstituteIf the connections between Hagel and ES&S seem suspect, the origins of America's largest electronic voting machine companies may be just as distressing, especially for those who venerate the separation of church and state. The convoluted system of renaming and buyouts of America's voting system companies is a complicated story. However, once the various corporate trails have been followed, a disturbing picture comes into focus.

Brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich founded American Information Systems. Bob is currently president of Diebold and Todd Urosevich is Vice President, Aftermarket Sales of ES&S. (In 1999, American Information Systems, purchased Business Records Corp to become ES&S.)

American Information Systems (AIS) was primarily funded with money from Ahmanson brothers, William and Robert, of the Howard F. Ahmanson Co. The majority stake in ES&S is still owned by Howard F. Ahmanson and the Ahmanson Foundation

Howard Ahmanson belongs to Council for National Policy, a hard right wing organization and also helps finance The Chalcedon Institute. As the institute's own site reports, Chalcedon is a "Christian educational organization devoted to research, publishing, and promoting Christian reconstruction in all areas of life... Our emphasis on the Cultural or Dominion Mandate (Genesis 1:28) and the necessity of a return to Biblical Law has been a crucial factor in the challenge to Humanism by Christians in this country and elsewhere..." Chalcedon promotes Christian Reconstructionism, which mandates Christ's dominion over the entire world. The organization's purpose is to establish Old Testament Biblical law as the standard for society.

CONTINUED...

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00147.htm

[glitch]

12. ES&S - just doing their best to make peaceful revolution impossible.

Who exactly owns ES&S? Which human individuals make up the private ownership? Anybody know?

[Initech]

13. Euthanized? It was publicly executed on january 21st, 2000.

[Odin2005]

14. If voting changed anything they would make it illegal. --Emma Goldman