Obama Administration backs Vatican's Claim of Immunity to Sexual Abuse Lawsuits

[Stuart G]

Source: Raw Story,

The Obama administration in a brief to the Supreme Court has backed the Vatican's claim of immunity from lawsuits arising from cases of sexual abuse by priests in the United States.

The Supreme Court is considering an appeal by the Vatican of an appellate court ruling that lifted its immunity in the case of an alleged pedophile priest from Oregon.

In a filing on Friday, the solicitor general's office argued that the Ninth Circuit court of appeals erred in allowing the lawsuit brought by a man who claims he was sexually abused in the 1960s by the Oregon priest.


Read more: http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0525/obama-backs-catholic-church-immunity-claim-sexual-abuse-lawsuits/

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When I saw this a moment ago, I felt very disappointed...again...

[Me.]

1. Would That Be Elena Kagan?

[Ian David]

2. If Der Popenfuhrer were dealing drugs, we'd invade them like we did Panama. n/t

[GodlessBiker]

7. +1000 (plus a healthy snicker)

[Downwinder]

3. Is the church incorporated?

[jberryhill]

10. Vatican City is recognized by the US as a sovereign country

That's why it is immune from suit.

This story has nothing to do with child molestation or religion, but a basic principle of jurisdiction.

[nichomachus]

13. Iraq was a sovereign country. So was Afghanistan. So was Panama. So was . . . .

[jberryhill]

14. And your comment relates to civil suits under the FSIA how?

You sued these countries, or what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Sovereign_Immunities_Act

"The Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act (FSIA) of 1976 is a United States law, codified at Title 28, §§ 1330, 1332, 1391(f), 1441(d), and 1602-1611 of the United States Code, that establishes the limitations as to whether a foreign sovereign nation (or its political subdivisions, agencies, or instrumentalities) may be sued in U.S. courts—federal or state. It also establishes specific procedures for service of process and attachment of property for proceedings against a Foreign State. The FSIA provides the exclusive basis and means to bring a lawsuit against a foreign sovereign in the United States."

A lawsuit either fits one of the FSIA exceptions or it does not.

The US typically files an amicus brief in FSIA cases, since various international treaties require reciprocal legal protections.

So, what is your point?

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Amazing, Not Surprising. nt

[closeupready]

5. 'So, if you are a child molester acting alone, you will be prosecuted harshly. If you are

a child molesting priest, however, you will be protected by the church.'

How is that not the lesson to be drawn from this?

[Angry Dragon]

6. They want to be a church and a country

they need to pick one and stick to it

[Deep13]

8. Once again caving in to pressure from religious extremists....

...and protecting abusers instead of victims.

[quiller4]

16. No. The issue is that the Vatican is recognized as a sovereign nation.

[Deep13]

18. So a foreign nation has sent its agents to this country...

...a recruited more from here for a variety of purposes including the systematic rape of our children. You're right, they should not be sued. That's for individuals and companies. This is a state-sponsored act of war. They should be treated like any other state who harbors terrorists. The should be economically isolated, their assets seized and their agents arrested as collaberators. The only reason they should not be bombed ever further into the middle ages is because they are surrounded by foreign civilians. (Of course that didn't stop us in Iraq or Afghan istan).

Better?

[jberryhill]

22. Better?

Yes, much.

And just as soon as the Vatican is classified by the State Department and Congress as a "state sponsor of terror", then they will be subject to suit under one of the exceptions to the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act.

But until that happens, you can't sue under the terrorism exception.

So, write your letter to Hillary Clinton and demand that State so designate.

[Deep13]

24. If the Vatican really is sovereign nation...

...and not just a religion and they are supporting criminal activity in this country, then we are not talking about lawsuits. If another country was found to be complicit in the systematic rape of our children, they would be exposed to anything from sanctions and the seizure of assets to invasion and conquest. And the Vatican has in fact been on the receiving end of that kind of action before. At the beginning of the 14th century, King Philip the IV of France actually captured the pope and held him as a puppet government to run the western church from France. Boniface the VIII was, in Phil's estimation, undermining his royal authority within the Kingdom of France and he refused to tolerate it.

So if the Vatican really wants to go down the sovereign state road, under the rules of war their assets, including all church funds and real estate, would be seized by the Feds. as enemy contraband. All priests and bishops and cooperating civilians could be arrested and even shot as enemy collaborators. There would be no need for a civil judgment.

But this will never happen. Not because they are innocent bystanders--they aren't--but because neither this nor any U.S. president will openly antagonize the R.C. church. They are simply too powerful in this country and around the world for the Feds. to take them on.

[jberryhill]

25. "If the Vatican really is sovereign nation"

Whatever you might consider them to be, the US government considers them to be one.

"All priests and bishops and cooperating civilians could be arrested and even shot as enemy collaborators."

Ummm... okay... whatever you say, Commandant.

[Cleobulus]

28. Then the United States should withdraw its recognition, simple solution. n/t

[jberryhill]

9. Should the US be subject to suit in Vatican City for heresy?

This story has been done before.

There are very few exceptions to the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act.

[Deep13]

19. A few points.

Only Catholics can be heretics from the RC Church's point of view. The USA is a foreign nation that is not officially Catholic. Ergo, we cannot be heretical, but at most infidels. The historic response to infidels is to sponsor a holy crusade against them if the Church thinks it has some claim on the territory. Otherwise, the usual route is to send in missionaries to convert the locals to Catholicism by whatever mmeans necessary.

Heresy is a charge against individuals, not states. The remedy is sufficiently well-known and gruesome that it is not necessary to detail it here.

The United States does not recognize any purely religious offenses. They can issue whatever judgment they want in Italy. Good luck getting an American judge to enforce it.

I really can't believe that you are equating heresy (which means simply having an unapproved opinion) with the systematic rape of children.

[jberryhill]

21. Major Point-Missing

I'm not equating child molestation with anything.

The legal posture of this case has nothing to do with child molestation.

The issue on appeal is whether citizens of the US can sue a foreign government in a US court. In cases implicating the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, the US has a number of relevant treaty obligations, which is why the US has filed a brief in this case.

It is a simple jurisdictional question.

So, how about you provide a list of things for which, in your opinion, the US government should be subject to suit in foreign courts.

[Dogtown]

11. We cannot escape the depravity

of the Medieval Church.

[brendan120678]

12. Now I haven't read too much up on this, but...

seems to me that it is obvious that the Vatican City, as a recognized sovereign state by the US, is immune from prosecution.
However, the Holy See, the seat of the Roman Catholic Church, is an entirely different entity.

I wonder if the suit can be brought against the Holy See/RCC in general. The Pope is both the spiritual head of the RCC and the political Head of State of Vatican City. Can he be sued in his capacity of leader of the RCC, and not as Head of State of Vatican City?

[jberryhill]

15. And that is the relevant set of questions

The actual legal issue has nothing to do with child molestation or religion, but the manner in which the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act applies to this suit.

[mopinko]

17. thank you

that would be exactly correct.

[Deep13]

20. Good idea. Too bad we won't even argue that. nt

[jberryhill]

23. Can he be sued in his personal capacity?

Maybe.

Now, what recoverable assets are you going to obtain from him personally in a civil judgment?

Answer: None. I probably own more personal property than the Pope does.

Your brilliant plan runs into the "Willie Sutton" problem.

[Better Believe It]

26. Why did the Ninth Circuit court of appeals allow the lawsuit to proceed?

I'd like to read their decision.

Perhaps someone can find a link to it.

[jberryhill]

27. Linky

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/03/03/0635563.pdf