Bill Gates to Congress: Let us hire more foreigners

[onpatrol98]

WASHINGTON--For the second year in a row, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates ventured to Capitol Hill and urged Congress to let more foreign-born engineers work in the United States and to direct larger numbers of tax dollars to research and education.

Just as he did around the same time last year before a U.S. Senate committee, Gates on Wednesday contended America's competitiveness in the global economy is "at risk." He said Congress, the administration, and the next president must commit to overhauling immigration policy and encouraging both public and private research investment.

"It makes no sense to educate people in our universities, often subsidized by U.S. taxpayers, and then insist they return home," he told the House of Representatives Science and Technology Committee during a two-hour hearing. Read more at link below:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9892046-7.html

[Dinger]

1. Hey bill gates . . .

Fuck you:grr:

[Hestia]

2. My sentiments exactly - STFU

[Angry Dragon]

9. +1,0000,000

[Dinger]

46. Dang, That's A Lot Of +'s.

Thank you:)

[Angry Dragon]

49. We do not need to bring people in for jobs

with so many of our jobs going overseas and people in this country out of work,

Perhaps the pluses should equal Americans out of work

[proudohioan]

68. I'll see Angry Dragons +100000...

and raise him 100,000,000!

[AngryOldDem]

60. +1,000,000,000,000,000

Just more cheap labor for the likes of you, Bill, and please don't say it's because there's a shortage of qualified professionals here.

[AnArmyVeteran]

76. I love your eloquent response, but it was a bit too long :)

The richer a person gets the more they want. Greed by the rich and powerful is a disease that will destroy this country unless Americans rise up and stop it.

[LakeSamish706]

3. I really wish this ass would fall into a big hole, and of course leave me his billions.

Edited to add: Another great Corporate Citizen of these United States. As if the US doesn't have a big enough problem with unemployment now, we really don't need any more people here to take those jobs for less money.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Although he does have a point

why is that bill? Why is it that OUR kids are NOT going to Engineering Colleges?

Are they dumb? No.

Do they mostly have the preparation to go there? No.

Why is that bill, could it be the current war on education that started oh about two generations ago?

NAH, it could not be.

Boggles the mind at times, don't it? And yes Bill has a little to do with this state of affairs... and at times one wonders... after all H1B visa holders ARE cheaper to hire.

[provis99]

6. we are producing waay to many engineering grads.

They have a higher unemployment rate than the national average.

[LakeSamish706]

8. That goes for most IT people as well, way to many not working or working below grade. n/t

[phleshdef]

12. Thats not even close to true. I work in IT and have had recruiters beating down my door.

And I have a job that I have no intention of quitting. Even in the worst parts of this recession, IT has still thrived quite well.

[LakeSamish706]

18. Not sure what area you are in, but thats not that way here. Many IT's out of work, or working

for pay that is well below average.

[OhioChick]

32. I'm in Ohio as well.....

I know of so many unemployed tech workers here that it's shameful.

[phleshdef]

37. I don't know any and I know a lot of IT people.

Given that my area is applications programming, so maybe its just programmers. But there is definately not a shortage of jobs in my field. Every industry is going to be effected by the jobs downturn, but IT seems to be holding pretty steady from my perspective.

[OhioChick]

40. "IT seems to be holding pretty steady from my perspective"

Not from the articles that I've been posting here.

[OhioChick]

48. From January 2010:

Tech layoffs in 2009 hit a 4-year high

Some disheartening, yet not surprising, news from a recently released report by outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas, Inc.:

Tech sector employers announced 174,629 job cuts in 2009, the highest total since 2005.
The total tech cuts comprised 13.2% of the 1.3 millions jobs lost across all industries in 2009.
Most of the tech cuts happened in the first quarter of 2009, with more than 84,000 layoffs. More than 65,000 job cuts were announced on Jan. 30 alone, and included Sprint Nextel (S, Fortune 500) and Texas Instruments (TXN, Fortune 500). But by the fourth quarter, tech cuts tapered to just under 34,000. The report says the rapid decline in cuts over the year could signal a 2010 turnaround.

It’s not surprising that during downtimes, with most companies focusing on how to keep their heads above the water, innovation is the first thing to go. Companies just don’t have the money for tech spending. But the folks at Challenger say it might mean that when the economy starts turning around, computer and electronics firms should be among the first to see the turnaround, “as companies try to postpone hiring by achieving productivity gains through technology.”

More: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/career/?p=1677

So far in 2010, the downturn continues....

[Hardrada]

58. Join us liberal arts grads in selling apples on the street corners.

[WinkyDink]

77. The laugh, she is on all of us now, eh?

Yep---have had my fill of mockery of the Liberal Arts as worthless.

[onpatrol98]

47. Apparently we should all move in with you.

:hippie:

[Greyhound]

53. Care to elaborate? What do you code? For what sector?

If there are "recruiters beating down your door", they must be the worst recruiters on earth.

Pick a language/tech, I can give you 5 names off the top of my head of experienced people that want to go back to work.

[phleshdef]

13. Dupe.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I was led to beleive by him and his type

that we were not

The H1B visa point does stand though.

[Hannah Bell]

50. US graduates >70,000 engineers a year.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1220/p01s01-ussc.html

engineering unemployment has been uncharacteristically high 2000-present.



in other words, bill gates & his buddies are big fat liars. was there ever any real doubt?

they lie about outsourcing, they lie about h1b visas, they lie about their profiteering charter schools.

[Dappleganger]

71. That's BULLSHIT.

The problem is those jobs have been outsourced to other countries like Ireland, etc. The jobs WERE HERE, the companies just up and left us holding the fucking bag.

[fujiyama]

103. Do you have data to back up that claim?

Engineering grads have a much better chance of finding a job than say, a liberal arts major.

[Greyhound]

52. Although that is true, it's not even that. We are up to our asses in overqualified

IT workers. From developers to PM's, engineers to DB architects, you can't turn around in a coffee shop without bumping into a "former IT worker" that has had her life repossessed by Gates, Ellison, Norton, & the rest of those "self made" billionaires.

[proudohioan]

65. Thank you!

And even if our kids HAD the preparation, doesn't going into $50,000 PLUS debt for a degree make our kids think twice and thrice about doing so? With this race to the bottom in wages, it sure doesn't sound like a wise bet to me!

It really sounds like we've been set up for failure: war on education at the K-12 level, skyrocketing college costs, lo and behold....we just don't have enough qualified workers! Whaddya know!

And of course we're expected to blame the victim (ourselves) yet one more fricken time!


I think by now we can all see behind this flimsy facade!

[Dappleganger]

69. We're currently looking at engineering schools for our oldest son.

My husband is a mechanical engineer, rec'd his undergrad and masters from VA Tech.

It is APPALLING the cost of going to a decent engineering school. I'm not talking about what is top-tier, just a middle-of-the-road yet recognized engineering school. We have figured out that he can stay here and go to community college for a year for less then transfer in to one, but that leaves us with three years of funding. We have some money saved but we just went through a major layoff for over a year and major underemployment. Our son may have to do some of this on his own (go into debt) and we really don't want that to happen because even when he graduates there is no guarantee whatsoever that those jobs will still be here in the US.

So Bill Gates, why don't YOU tell us why WE should invest so much money into an engineering degree for our son when engineering jobs are leaving the US by the THOUSANDS every single year. Yes, they ARE...we have been through multiple, major layoffs and that is no way to look forward to life especially if you want to have a family. And bringing these dirt-cheap salaried H1B's are hurting us even worse.

FUCK YOU, Mr. Gates.

[provis99]

5. America has 500,000 more engineers than they need, and he wants MORE?

the only reason to do that is to lock them to machines and pay them slave wages.

[WinkyDink]

78. No; he wants more FOREIGN-born ones.

[phleshdef]

7. Your headline kind of distorts what he was getting at. He didn't suggest anything wrong.

He isn't talking about moving operations to India and paying them pennies to do jobs Americans could have. Actually what he is suggesting is that they pass the kind of immigration reform many progressives are calling for and by doing so that would enable us to keep highly talented individuals here in America, working for American industry and thus strengthening the brain power of American businesses.

I love how people jump to conclusions about Bill Gates. Its pretty unfair actually. He is a very idealistic guy and isn't even remotely close to being the cold, callous, wealthy elitist that some make him out to be.

[MyNameGoesHere]

11. These hate bill posts

are normally from people that are hated by their computers. It really has nothing to do with the topic, it's just that their computers hate them.

[LakeSamish706]

21. I'm guessing that you must work for him or something! Sorry, but he is just another rich

asshole who could give a shit about anyone that is below his level.

[phleshdef]

23. See, thats just another type of bigotry you are engaging in.

[LakeSamish706]

29. Not at all, cause I don't engage in bigotry. My question is why are you defending the CEO of

Microsoft when he is trying desperately to bring more people into this country to fill jobs that unemployed Americans should have? We have mass unemployment in this country, and we don't need non US citizens taking these jobs that are desperately needed at home.

[phleshdef]

39. 1st off, he is advocating progressive immigration reform.

Secondly, I don't care about allowing other people to become part of this country. And if we do that, of course they are going to have to have jobs. Are you telling me you are anti-immigrant now?

And yes, it is bigotry. You are assuming that just because Bill Gates is a wealthy CEO that he is part of this whole heartless, Republican rich guy, class warfare culture and thats not even remotely close to true.

[LakeSamish706]

42. I am not and never will be anti immigrant, but I say employ US citizens before any others.

I installed my first systems in 1980 and have worked in the industry every since. Currently in most areas that I have been involved in, there are far to many IT people than are needed in the industry.

I have no problem at all with immigration, but with the current times that we are in, it must be for those that meet the current required job market that unemployed Americans cannot do.

[phleshdef]

43. Gates didn't express anything here that is counter to that sentiment.

[LakeSamish706]

45. No, but you did.. lol n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

90. Progressives are in favor of increasing the H - 1B Visas?

I don't think so.

[leftstreet]

33. LOL is that the new meme? Criticizing the Parasitic Class is 'bigotry?'

:rofl:

omg sign me up for some sensitivity training

[OhioChick]

34. .......

:spray:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LakeSamish706]

44. So next you are going to tell us that Bill Gates walks on Lake Washington.

Sorry, but I have boated by his home and haven't seen him walk on the water yet.

[onpatrol98]

28. My headline?

Or one of the posters...my headline is simply the title for the original article on the link I referenced.

[Greyhound]

54. A man that built his company on theft, fraud, and exploitation, who then proceeded to

fragment the entire industry by refusing to comply with any standards, and then imposed weak, slow, unsecured, inefficient bloated and overpriced software on what was left. He didn't win the game by being better, faster, or cheaper, he won by cheating and the whole world pays an enormous price for his "success".

And now you tell us that he's a great guy with nothing but good intentions.:eyes:

[The Backlash Cometh]

92. These sods think that everything bad they did in the past can be washed

away with a quickie donation to some charity.

[Dappleganger]

95. +1000

[Statistical]

62. H1-B visa program is a joke.

It allows American companies to hire foreign employees at half the cost and claim there is no American who can do the job.

Here is one example. Programmer position in CA with normal job requirements, salary half prevailing wage, and a requirement to speak fluent Indian or Chinese. Hmmm I wonder why they couldn't find any "qualified" applicant.

Another scam is to require 5+ years of living overseas as "life experience". Know many American tech people who could meet that requirement?

[fujiyama]

104. What is "Indian"?

There is no such language. And while accents can sometimes make communication somewhat difficult, most Indians speak English, especially those here on H1-B visas.

[WinkyDink]

79. I think the "wealthy" part still stands.

[AmericaIsGreat]

14. Bill's done some very questionable shit, but here...

He is talking about how it makes no sense to have foreigners get their degree from our universities and then have to go home. If we educate them, we should benefit from their education. Keep them here.

[The Backlash Cometh]

91. Why the FUCK are we educating them?

Maybe that's the question we should be asking?

[AmericaIsGreat]

101. Well...good point

And the answer is because we give out a lot of student Visas and those people are more educable at that point. They go to good primary schools in their home countries (sometimes not even that; they go to crappy schools but excel in self-study) and then come here and do well in upper learning.

Our kids get shitty primary educations and subsequently don't do well in upper learning.

[The Backlash Cometh]

102. Maybe the flaw is not in our schools, but in our communities.

[butterfly77]

15. He has been saying this for years...

I am surprised it took this long for anyone to notice. I guess because of hard times and the immigration debate.

[onehandle]

16. Once in a while I think he's improving, then he shows he's as worthless as his college roommate.

Sigh.

[phleshdef]

17. What did he say that was wrong here?

[leftstreet]

19. Some of us are tired of the opinions of rich fucks

Let's hear a little more from the Peasant Class, and a little less from the owners.

[phleshdef]

22. There is a line between righteous anger towards elitists and outright bigotry towards successful ppl

You are crossing that line with shit like that.

[leftstreet]

24. LOL

:popcorn:

[Starry Messenger]

31. Poor rich people.

They are so oppressed. All they want is to live in humble peace. :cry:

[Raineyb]

56. Oh please!

Next thing you'll be telling us that poor people are poor because they don't work hard or something equally classist.

[WinkyDink]

80. Sez you.

[HughBeaumont]

83. "We're just jealous"? REALLY?

You REALLY want to ride this train?

[Silent3]

72. How about evaluating what people say based on the merits...

...of their particular arguments, and not based on who is saying it?

[Newsjock]

20. Here's the problem

It makes no sense to educate (foreign) people in our universities, often subsidized by U.S. taxpayers

Precisely. How about subsidizing the education of talented American students whose potential is going untapped?

[OhioChick]

25. +1000 n/t

[Starry Messenger]

35. The Gates Foundation is involved in education funding.

But there are so many strings attached to that money, he's practically a shadow arm of the Department of Education.

[Dappleganger]

73. Oh, you mean like his 'charter school' program??

Give me a fucking break.

[Starry Messenger]

85. Well exactly.

I just wanted to put in the fact that he funds "schools" before some Gates apologist got in here with Gates Foundation astroturf about what an education philanthropist he is. I posted a little late and didn't really complete my thought. :/

[Berserker]

36. What?

Are they not being educated to do jobs that Americans won't do? They should stay here and work. Or is that excuse just for construction workers? I am not sure.
They are here to better there lives and make a living. Let them stay! Oh and Fine and jail all employers. I think I covered all the talking points.

[LakeSamish706]

38. You nailed that, except I guess we get their money for the education....

But right after that, send em home and they can apply for a green card like everyone else.

[fujiyama]

105. The reason American universities and college take people in from overseas

is because international students often pay twice that of resident tuition. It's a great way to make money.

Especially for state universities, whose funds have been cut. Most of the time, international students have taken out massive loans back home.

[Canuckistanian]

26. Let us buy fewer Microsoft products

We might even see some progress.

[onpatrol98]

30. Apple surpasses Microsoft in market cap, becomes second biggest US company

Yesterday, for the first time ever, Apple, Inc. surpassed Microsoft in market capitalization, making Apple the most valuable tech company in the US, and the second-largest in the country, behind Exxon Mobil.

clipped from: http://www.gearlive.com/news/article/apple-surpasses-microsoft-market-cap-q210/

[KansasVoter]

67. And Apple is a arrogant company. Worse I have ever seen. And has a cult following!

[undeterred]

27. He should buy himself a country and become a foreigner.

[Greyhound]

51. Second year in a row, my ass.

That lying scumbag POS has been doing this for at least 12 years.
:grr:

[BrentWil]

55. Totally agreed...

Getting the best minds into this country only helps us. They create jobs and help advance our society.

[BrentWil]

57. Why all the Bill Gates hate?

The Gates Foundation is highly effective. He is an American success story that is now giving back.

[pampango]

59. Well said, BrentWil. Research shows that immigrants end up creating more jobs than they take and

positively contribute to our economy, but with immigration research means little compared to what your gut tells you - foreigners are taking our jobs (the Germans in the mid-18th century, the Irish in the 1850's, the Italians in the 1890's, the Asians and Hispanics in the late 20th century and now).

In particular bright, educated and motivated foreigners like those in our universities are much more productive for our economy and society. Those who prefer that we send these foreigners "home" so that they can create businesses and jobs in Brazil or China or South Korea or undertake scientific research that will create future products that will compete with ours are letting their disdain of foreigners get in the way of growing our economy and jobs.

If we don't want them Canada will take them: "Canada has one of the best and most respected education systems in the world. Every year, thousands of students from other countries pursue their educational goals in Canada. With new ways to gain valuable Canadian work experience during and after your studies, the advantages of studying in Canada are great. There are also permanent immigration options for international students who have graduated from post-secondary programs in Canada."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/study.asp

Or Australia will take them: The Australian Government skilled migration program targets young people who have skills, an education and outstanding abilities that will contribute to the Australian economy. International students with Australian qualifications account for about half the people assessed under the skilled migrant program. For up-to-date information on the program, visit the Department of Immigration and Citizenship’s website.

http://studyinaustralia.gov.au/Sia/en/AfterYourStudies/Employment

[BrentWil]

86. Agreed...

Smart and hard working people coming to a society never hurts it. It ONLY helps.

[Statistical]

63. BS. Studies show the H-1B program isn't to get "best minds"

that is simply the BS cover story that is about as believable as the claim that BP is beyond petroleum.

Majority of H-1B workers are low skilled and paid a wage well below American standard.

It depresses American wages and increases unemployment.

I say fine let them have an H-1B program however the wage is set by Department of Labor and the employee must pay 200% of prevailing wage with a 25% fee to do the DOL. Watch H-1B applications drop to 0 overnight.

[BrentWil]

87. I suggest a better program..

Drop the H-1B program altogether and go back to an Ellis Island approach. If you want to find a better life here by hard work, you will put far more into our society then you take from it.

[Dappleganger]

74. We HAVE excellent minds right HERE, but people like Gates doesn't want to pay them

what they are worth.

[BrentWil]

88. We certainly do..

But the more talented people we have the better. America needs to encourage talented people to come here. It provides our society with a competitive advantage.

[Dappleganger]

94. But if the American talent isn't being hired...

there is NO REASON for foreign talent to be encouraged (given scholarships, H1B's) to come to the US. Those jobs and scholarships should go to AMERICANS first.

Sorry, but that's how I feel about the situation.

[krabigirl]

99. I agree. It's how my husband got here and now he owns a business and employs people himself.

So he is now providing jobs to Americans. He's a citizen himself now, too.

[Statistical]

61. Here is my solution..... allow them to hire an unlimted number of H-1B applicants

at wages equal to 200% of the market rate (as determined by DOL) plus a 25% employment fee to the DOL. It there really is NO available domestic talent they will be glad to pay the premium. Also that will encourage promotion of domestic talent as it will be cheaper.

Pretty much win-win situation. Companies have access to unlimited (albeit expensive) labor and domestic employees will get all available jobs.

No need to cap it. Let the free (with regulation) market cap it. Oh an wage violations are 10,000% of annual wage.

Watch H-1B applications plummet to a 20 year low. :)
Then have Mr. Gates come back to Congress and explain how/why nobody is using this unlimited pool of H-1B applicants. :)

[proudohioan]

75. I like your idea! n/t

[hobbit709]

64. I got a better idea.

Let's hire foreign CEOs and keep American WORKERS. We'll see how much these corporate asses like it then.

[proudohioan]

66. Bill Gates, you love foreigner so much?

Then why don't you take your entire operataion, including yourself and your family, to a foreign fucken country. Permanently! Maybe that foriegn government will be more than happy to direct their large numbers of tax $$$ to fund your research and education, ya think?

Fuck you, Bill!

[Odin2005]

70. Fuck that!

:grr:

[HughBeaumont]

81. Quel Surprise. Cheap Labor Mammonite Gates is at it again.

And I see by some posts here that DU has turned into "Hot Flat and Crowded" Thomas Friedman Central once again. When are we going to see some "unemployed people are lazy", "adapt or die", "retrain", "Fair Trade is Protectionism Lite", "You're a Buchananite xenophobe!" or "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" posts again?

The practice of Job offshoring or Job inshoring is a Republican, unbridled corporatist economic practice, END OF SENTENCE. We have nearly 17% true unemployment here. This is not the time or the place for the abundantly wealthy to be even more self-benefitting. A great amount of unemployed tech workers is bad for this country, in case anyone needs to be reminded. These people don't need to "Re-train", they need to be EMPLOYED at a fair wage.

The "Race to the Bottom" helps NO one in the long run . . . except the abundantly wealthy.

[The Backlash Cometh]

82. It makes no sense to force our kids to pay for their own educations,

and then deny them a good paying job.

What a dipshit he is.

[HughBeaumont]

84. The disconnect is even more astonishing . . .

. . . when one comes to realize that in the same time period (10-13 years) that we're seeing a large influx of college students and college educated workers, bachelors and masters degrees alike, we're also seeing zero net job creation.

In other words, we're investing all of this money and time for WHAT? So all of this talent can now be thrown in a practical lottery where there's over 200 qualified citizen applicants for one damned living wage job?

I think we need to ask ourselves when the process of merely making a living turned into a crapshoot and what steps do we need to take to correct this?

[The Backlash Cometh]

89. Maybe Gates makes an argument for NOT paying tuition for foreign students?

I mean, with all these illegal immigrant issues, why are we applying different policies to different nations?

[Dappleganger]

97. Thank you!! nt

[fatbuckel]

93. Academics should never be a business. Too many underqualified graduates.

Yet they push em out.Money,money,money.Waa,waa,waa. You want job security? Do your job good.

[Dont TS Me Brah]

96. please allow me to translate for Mr. Gates

we have no interest in paying so much money for spoiled lazy American employees who demand silly extravagances like a living wage, health insurance and retirement plans and refuse to work more than 40-50 hours per week.

[krabigirl]

98. Well, I agree with him if the foreigners are more qualified. Only if they are.

[Quantess]

100. I love how he pitches his idea as though it's good for America.

What a steaming pantload.