This Oil Spill Is A Great Opportunity To Open A Discussion About Science v Make Believe

[stopbush]

People are pissed that the oil spill hasn't been capped because people in this country believe in fucking MAGIC and FICTION and the SUPERNATURAL to offer solutions to real life problems. Religion, "alternative medicines," astrology, Deepak Choprah-inspired New Age Wackadoodleisms, Republican ideologies and a whole lot of other shit that has NO BASIS IN REALITY are treated as normal, VIABLE responses to the real shit that happens in this world, at least if we look at what the average American believes.

Well, guess what, campers? This oil spill problem is going to have a SCIENTIFIC SOLUTION, a reality based solution devise solely by the brains of men. No amount of praying or tarot card reading or UFO abduction testimonials or anti-vaccine protests or supply-side economic theories or rewrites of American history textbooks or alternative endings to Lost or expecting Obama to fly in like Superman and plug the pipe with his amazin' heat vision are going to mean a hill of beans when it comes to solving this very real problem.

There's a teachable moment here, a moment that will (sadly) come and go without a whimper, at least if our history repeats itself. What we WILL hear when all is said and done will be, "thank GOD the leak got plugged. Our prayers have been answered!"

[stray cat]

1. but people told BP they were not going to take it anymore -that didn't plug the leak?

I thought that was like "I believe in fairies and clapping your hands so tinker bell wouldn't die

[SidDithers]

2. Agreed & recc'd...

But be prepared for "science caused the problem in the first place".

Sid

[lob1]

5. Science didn't cause the problem, bald faced greed caused the problem.

[Captain Hilts]

3. Yes! And what our priorities are and how conservation of energy helps right NOW. nt

[roguevalley]

25. this is greed abusing science. religions properly read forbid the

abuse of the earth and her resources and living things. greed + science = near extinction event for us all. this is the absence of ethics.

[KonaKane]

29. Don't bother them with facts. They have an anti-religious screed to carry on.

Yawn

[roguevalley]

63. I know. sad, huh?

[Chulanowa]

68. "Properly read"

Yeeeah, hey, about that? never happens.

[Touchdown]

79. "God gave us dominion over the Earth. He said use it, take it, rape it. It's yours."

Faithful Christian, Ann Coulter.

[RoyGBiv]

4. Absolutely agreed ...

There is all kinds of complex science and engineering going on here, and if one thing has been made clear over the past month, it is that science knowledge in this nation, regardless of ideological bent, is atrocious.

I don't exclude myself from this either. I eventually dusted off some old college textbooks so I found re-familiarize myself with equations I'd never committed to memory for fluid dynamics, volumes, pressures, etc. just to try to begin to understand what more educated people were saying about these events.

[KonaKane]

6. Oh brother here we go again.

Yeah, religion is ther reason there was an oil spill. Yup.

Do you religion bashers EVER have a happy moment? I mean between masturbatory fantasies?

[stopbush]

11. You're giving religion more credit than it deserves. It's just one of the myriad

fantasy-based systems that Americans are willing to stake their lives on.

Of course, that religious indoctrination most of us receive as kids sets us up to believe in astrology and alternative medicines and the rest of the anti-reality stupidities we cling to, but these days, it's hardly alone in promoting an anti-science, anti-reality malaise in the populace.

[KonaKane]

14. The new beligerent atheist is more consumed with religion than even the fundies are.

Bizarre beyond belief. I suggest you get over it - faith isnt going away in your lifetime.

[stopbush]

17. Actually, at age 55, I'm kinda pleased at how much faith has gone away since I was a kid.

Gives me hope for the future.

What's your problem? I'd wager it's "getting over" atheists, who - belligerent or not - are ever-swelling in number, acceptance and influence (and during your lifetime, no less!).

[mzteris]

22. Gives me hope for the future.

ayuh.

I was in "Cradle Roll" at 9 weeks of age. I went to church for NINETEEN YEARS without missing one single Sunday School class. (My mom made it to forty-something until the day she got lost trying to find the church - - - she was missing for about 6 hours. She never did admit she "missed church".)

If *I* can escape it, anyone can. I blush to admit it took my FIVE YEAR OLD to make me finally understand that I was still clinging to fairy tales. Letting all that go and accepting existence on an adult level made a huge difference.

Sometimes, yes, it would be so much easier to "let go and let 'god'". Not having to take any real responsibility for your life CAN make things seemingly less stressful. But who wants to live their life according to wishful thinking?

And when you add in the incalculable evil that can be laid at the doorstep of every church/mosque/synagogue/temple on the planet, then I'm not really sure why we even allow it to be practiced anymore. If it were as harmless as believing in Santa, then ok. I can see where some people need that to behave appropriately. But it's not. The perpetuation of these patriarchal myths hurts millions of people every single day.

[KonaKane]

24. At age 50, I am happy to leave peoples' choice to believe or not up to them.

And stop obsessing about it for my own personal ego based reasons.

[stopbush]

51. I'd be fine with that as well, IF people's fantasies weren't used as

the basis for decisions that effect the rest of us, like issues of gay rights, deciding what ends up in school textbooks that my kids might end up using, whether or nor condoms are acceptable in stemming the spread of AIDS, whether women have the right to choose when it comes to abortion, etc.

The "live and let live" dictum is a decidedly one-way street when it comes to the religious, especially when it's the radical, belligerent Xians.

[Touchdown]

81. You obsessed enough to create that sig picture.

So, you do obsess at least a little.

I find your picture to be so telling. You so enlightened in it's sublety, so naively proud of it's unimpeachably questionable message. That we should allow, continue, encourage, and celebrate oppression, sexism, homophobia, genocide, territorial wars, body mutilation, tax evasion, emotional/physical abuse, torture, terrorism, murder, and not the least, really bad hair comb overs all because...

You found 4 good people who believe in sky spooks and put them on a pithy little box. Yeah. A truly profound one you are.:rofl:

[onager]

20. New belligerent atheists?

One of the most amazing things about the New Whiny Believers is their weird fixation that BELLIGERENT atheism was just invented in the last couple of weeks.

Anaxagoras was loudly pissing off religious believers in the Fifth Century BCE.

There is absolutely nothing new about atheism, belligerent or otherwise. It has a longer history than any of those bastard triplets of the desert goat-herders - Judaism, Xianity or Islam.

[Forkboy]

53. New Belligerent Atheists sounds like a perfect band name.

:)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

70. OMG you used BCE instead of b.C.!! OPPRESSOR !!11!!!1(biblepi/3)11!!

[KansasVoter]

77. No, we just like making fun of people who believe in imaginary friends.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Please do explain to me

how a belief in a deity has anything to do with an industrial accident.

If it makes you feel better to believe in one, fine by me. But I really want to hear how any deity... it could be Harimman for all I care, had ANY role in this.

[Nihil]

47. I didn't take it that way.

I didn't read the OP as blaming religion for the spill.

Nor did I read it as only being religious types who were doing the
self-delusion and anti-scientific responses.

I am not an atheist but that has never got in the way of my scientific
education or, for that matter, in understanding real-world issues.

I am not a "religion basher" and I read the OP as a commentary on
the demonstrable lack of rational thought that underlies a huge number
of the posts on the oil spill, regardless of whether the poster would
call themselves believers in faith A, faith B, faith Z, agnostic or athiest.
And I agree with it.

:shrug:

[KansasVoter]

76. Do religious idiots ever use logic?

[KittyWampus]

7. Agreed, but a lot of people who fancy themselves "skeptics" are the ones screaming loudest

for the magical, instant solution.

[Nihil]

44. Just because calls themself a "skeptic" w.r.t. religion ...

... doesn't mean that they are any less prone to stupidity in other respects.

:shrug:

[veganlush]

8. This disaster is the love child of Ronald Reagan

..as is Osama Bin Laden. Osama's family would not have been so rich, and we wouldn't need so much oil, if reagan hadn't turned the tide on Carter's solar, wind and conservation goals, which were to get us off foriegn oil by 2000. Bin Laden's family made their fortunes in construction in oil rich saudi arabia and also from oil exploration directly. Bin Laden would have been a nobody if not for oil thirsty America. If reagan hadn't reversed Carter's course, while symbolically removing the White House's solar panels, we would be leading the world in alternative energy and would likely not be doing dangerous drilling in the gulf.

[Ignis]

56. +1, and it's funny, because Carter was quite religious.

Not to delve too deeply into "No True Scotsman" here, but as a non-Christian, I'd say that Carter was the last President we've had who tried to walk the walk of his faith.

[Codeine]

9. Now THAT is a quality rant. +1 nt

[RandomThoughts]

10. Again, not sure what you are talking about, but the coruption as I see it.

Is corrected by the heart, not talking about the oil spill though, don't know about that, but the corruption outside of moderation in many areas is more about the heart. Sure I would like to have material things also, so I don't fault that, but some things got pretty rediculous in the extreams and with what has been done to society.

Some of the profit first with no regard for society is cured by the heart not science.

So although something like that oil spill has geological fixes, it also is not the biggest or worst stuff that has been going on that can be fixed by what would be called spiritual methods. Love of the heart with thinking and feeling.


And to remain balance, I should say I havn't been to the local bar for many days, and I know many other people have woes in financial things, so that security should be addressed for many people, and that can be helped by correcting some of the problems with lack of heart. And in my view love from the heart is a very spiritual thing, and part of the spirit of God.

Hill of beans, is not the hills I think on.

[HuckleB]

12. But, but, you're being so mean!

:evilgrin:

I honestly don't enter most of the "spill" threads at DU. I end up being almost as disheartened by the comments as I am by the scheming that led us to this disaster.

[Cetacea]

13. Excluding Republican ideologies, these groups have been warning

about this type of event happening for decades. If anything this is a huge "told you so" event for these very groups that you are ridiculing.

[tkmorris]

15. I haven't seen any non-scientific solutions offered. What are you talking about?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. THEY ARE DOING NOTHING crowd

and the, THE GULF (All of it) is dead crowd...

[tkmorris]

30. Ahh, but "they are doing nothing" is not what the OP spoke of

In any case, "they are doing nothing" is not the same in any respect as suggesting anyone cast chicken bones or don a crystal pyramid hat. Further, I haven't seen many suggest they are doing nothing, merely not enough. And they aren't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. The tehy are doing noting crowd

are having a little problem with the science of this, no matter how many times some try to explain it. Many are like WHY haven't they plugged it already? And my favorite of course falls in the category why don't they send the Navy Subs? or of course, DIVERS, where are the DIVERS?

But I guess we are readying a different message board.

[BeFree]

38. You are doing something? What?

Interesting that Obama sent Chu into the BP discussions. When did that happen? Week 3? 4?

&&&&&&&&&&

There is talk of the minds of men and solutions. Well, the minds of a few men at BP created this problem, and yet those same minds can't seem to fix it.

More minds need to be involved to find solutions.

How about using Navy minds? Are we availing ourselves of the minds of the men who are Navy trained in deepwater?

I ask because you seem to ridicule the idea of bringing in Navy experts with this statement: "..why don't they send the Navy Subs?"

[BeFree]

67. Crickets?

[ampad]

50. Subs, Divers?

WTH! wow now that would be a wonderful idea. Hey I got the PM you sent me some many months ago. I have just been busy with school and all. I'll get back to you promise.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. 'xept the subs are not designed for this

yep, it is still leaking, that's all they can do.

And drivers at those depths would be crush in a matter of a second, best case.

[jberryhill]

27. Why aren't spiritual healers offering solutions here?

They could just "distance reiki" that hole shut.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. and I thouht this asphalt volcano

came from us interfering with that ESO base...

Sorry, could not help. Sadly some folks will read this and take it as fact.

So here is a clue... no there is no ESO base... there I feel much better.

Though I expect this NOT to go too well. It is worst than that. Quick, how many folks KNOW what happens when you turn on the lights? Yes, it is that basic. That light switch is quite indistinguishable from magic for many... and that bespeaks volumes of where we are...

[greyl]

21. Nice one. nt

[William Z. Foster]

23. I do not think that is true

I do not think that there is a significant number of people, if any, who are "pissed that the oil spill hasn't been capped because people in this country believe in fucking MAGIC and FICTION and the SUPERNATURAL to offer solutions to real life problems."

That makes for a convenient little way to attack and marginalize critics of the response to the disaster, though. That is all it is.

The question is not whether or not the "oil spill problem is going to have a SCIENTIFIC SOLUTION" but rather whether that is more or less likely so long as the response continues to be privatized, and also whether or not the public interest and welfare can be entrusted to a corporation rather than to the government.

No one has said anything that can in any way fairly or accurately be described as "expecting Obama to fly in like Superman and plug the pipe with his amazin' heat vision."

No one. This is an unjustified, mean-spirited and dishonest attack on many, many sincere and intelligent people, and an insult to the intelligence of all who read it.

Capping the well is pout one aspect to this enormous catastrophe. BP, and you apparently, want everyone to focus only on that one aspect and not look at anything else, to see that as strictly a technical issue, and to see any and all critics as merely impatient and unrealistic. That line is coming straight out of BP public relations office, and should not be promoted by any of us, especially as a way to dismiss critics.

Ironically, you have proved the critics right. BP and its apologists are ,more interested in public relations than in tackling the emergency. What you have posted here is clearly a public relations ploy, and a ploy that would not even be needed if the public were getting the truth in the first place.

Whom could what you posted here possibly serve other than BP? How could it possibly be consistent with public welfare? Only the corporation involved, seeking to mislead the public and minimize the disaster would dream up this "pay no attention to the alarmists" pitch.

[stopbush]

31. Some people not only miss the point, they construct conspiracies and ulterior

motives whenever possible. More fantasy based thinking.

Yes - I'm talking about you.

[laughingliberal]

35. I believe BP is doing everything they can to cap the leak & as much as they can to hide ...

the extent of the damage. Covering up the damage is the precise reason for the Corexit and the reason they flat refused, when ordered, to stop using it.

[Festivito]

49. Some groups on DU just divide and waste the time of others.

Don't take it too seriously.

And, welcome to DU, and the mess that is any site that tries to find a little truth.

[jberryhill]

26. But now we have a whole lot more homeopathic petroleum!

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Will it take care of my head aches and bad knees?

Or do I have to pray hard as well, and use the Reiki?

:-)

[Nihil]

45. B*st*rd!

:spray:

[Union Yes]

28. K&R for science! nice post. nt

[JoeyT]

34. I've actually been wondering why the homeopaths weren't all over the news.

BP just created the world's largest homeopathic remedy. Nothing in the Gulf should ever die of any disease ever again.
If the oil is a problem they should be arguing against stopping the leak. The more oil that leaks out the less potent it is, right?
Unless of course they just happen to be utterly full of shit and are all well aware of it.
They should get Uri Geller to bend the pipe closed. I bet that would work.

Edited to add: I've been pretty critical of the response to the cleanup. I'd like to see that handled by the government. Not because I think BP doesn't know how or because I want it done with magic. I'd like the government to at least start cracking down on some of the scams that are currently running on the coast. I called eight groups yesterday that were advertising that they were looking for volunteers for cleanup. All of them were trying to convince people to pay sickening amounts of money for certifications. (2 and 3 grand for certifications that normally cost a few hundred bucks.) If you tell them you've got those certifications they hang up on you. There are also a ton of companies that are "hiring" people to assist in the cleanup. Of course they're placement companies that aren't actually hiring anyone, and there's no guarantee the people will get paid if the company does manage to send them somewhere, but they're advertising like hell because the average person doesn't know who to talk to.

[charlie]

36. It would unless James Randi showed up

And he always does. Bending steel is a cinch, but not when a glowering gnome with a bad attitude napalms your chakras.

In our darkest hour, we're being denied the Gift of Geller again. Will no one rid us of the skeptical pinchbritches?

[BeFree]

37. Eh?

"...solution devise solely by the brains of men."

Describe the processes whereby a "solution devise solely by the brains of men" works.

How many men? Is it just a few select men? Or is it many men? Can one mind find the solution or will it take many minds? You profess this, I look forward to the complete explanation of how this brain, or brains, work to accomplish this task. Should be easy, for someone like you with all the answers, eh?

[SidDithers]

57. You think the solutions won't be devised by the brains of men and women?...

That the solution, whatever it ends up being, will be come from a divine or supernatural source?

Maybe we can just pray the well shut.

Sid

[BeFree]

62. Sid, sid, sid

read the gawd damn question and try to form an answer.

Of course it is the 'brains' now tell me how that works, if you have a clue.

And wasn't my question to the OP? Where'd he go?

[SidDithers]

65. I'm thinking you didn't understand the OP...nt

Sid

[BeFree]

66. I quoted the OP

Then asked a pointed question about the quote. How f'n simple do have to make it?

[FarCenter]

39. Bummer -- I was thinking that Bruce Willis was coming to plug the well

[BeFree]

40. Typical

The first thing that comes to some people's minds is Hollywood.

Typical for the political center.

[FarCenter]

42. Perhaps I should be more clear

The bullshit fantasies purveyed by the film and television industry is just as responsible as religion, etc., for corroding the public's appreciation for the constraints imposed by reality.

[BeFree]

46. That's better

I hate the damned flip comments. Who doesn't?

"The constraints imposed by reality."

Now that is something worth discussing, eh? Want to try?

[meow mix]

41. science help us..

blessed are those that praise the science

[Nihil]

43. Well said!

> People are pissed that the oil spill hasn't been capped because people
> in this country believe in fucking MAGIC and FICTION and the SUPERNATURAL
> to offer solutions to real life problems.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

I'm no atheist but I've been both appalled and angered by the crushingly
disappointing number of stupid yet loud & persistent posters across the
hundreds of threads on the subject who are totally incapable of understanding
rational, factual and scientific issues, preferring to sound off (yet again)
their preferred magic wand/prayer/Hollywood "solution".

They are unable to understand the depth involved, the pressures involved,
the flow rates involved, the cost involved or the risks involved and this
stems (IMO) from their lack of education (or, at least, lack of any form
of scientific education).


> There's a teachable moment here

There's a teachable *population* here FFS but it's probably 20+ years too late!

And isn't this bit the sad truth:
> What we WILL hear when all is said and done will be, "thank GOD the
> leak got plugged. Our prayers have been answered!"

:banghead:

[stopbush]

52. Thanks for the support and for understanding what I was getting at.

Our Hollywood-influenced society believes that everything has a solution IF ONLY someone with balls steps up to the plate and "gets 'er done." It could be Bruce Willis or Jack Bauer or maybe even MacGruber. It's the Nike moniker "Just DO it" on steroids, an Ah-noldesque appeal to action over reality. The public misunderestimates the depth and scope of this oil disaster. They misunderestimate the fact that there were no solutions contemplated for such a disaster, let alone having a solution in place and ready to go if and when the worst happened.

Hindsight is wonderful, but people are blaming Obama for this when the technical expertise to deal with problems lies with BP and others in the oil industry, not with the government. Government's hands aren't tied in this instance. Government's hands aren't trained for the work that is NEEDED. It's like asking Reagan to save the crew of the Challenger after the thing has already exploded. The instant that wellhead blew 40 days ago, the genie was out of the bottle and swimming towards the coast.

It's easy for Bobby Jindal to bitch about not getting permits to build sand berms when he knows damn well that those things will take MONTHS to construct and will do NOTHING to mitigate the IMMEDIATE disaster. There's even a question of whether such berms could be constructed in offshore waters that have already been contaminated by the oil. Jindal is looking to score quick political points without risking any push back from our uniformed media and populace. He may as well propose lining the coast with school kids blowing bubbles at the oil. Such an action would have the same immediate effect as attempting to build sand berms.

And on it goes, with one fantastic solution after the other offered to a public that buys the spin like it's on sale at WalMart. I'm waiting for Newt Gingrich to call for "frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads" to head down to the Gulf to lase the hole closed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Exactomundo

you hit this especially with head on nail moment..

It's easy for Bobby Jindal to bitch about not getting permits to build sand berms when he knows damn well that those things will take MONTHS to construct and will do NOTHING to mitigate the IMMEDIATE disaster. There's even a question of whether such berms could be constructed in offshore waters that have already been contaminated by the oil. Jindal is looking to score quick political points without risking any push back from our uniformed media and populace. He may as well propose lining the coast with school kids blowing bubbles at the oil. Such an action would have the same immediate effect as attempting to build sand berms.

I could add Tweety to this, or a slew of other people. All are focused on scoring political points and pushing the meme that gov'ment don't work.

And the people, as usual, laps it up.

I said that part of the problem what Hollywood. I mean if this were a Hollywood script it would go something line this.

President must be either a woman or black. Well replace black for Hispanic.

It takes two weeks to solve, enough to let the drama build.

The hero, a Bruce WIllis type, does this plug of hole.

There are no effects at the end on the coast.

Everybody goes home happy.

What people miss is that this IS NOT a Hollywood script and in real life sometimes the ending is not happy and the choices are all stark... and you hope that you chose the right one of a list of terrible ones. You might want to pray that you do if you believe in such a thing, but in the end prayer or not does not make that choice less stark.

And like you I think this is a teachable moment, but you also need a population willing to learn the exact lessons behind this mess. I fear they are not ready for that. It is easier to believe in the Hollywood paradigm, even if life rarely, if ever, goes that way,

[BeFree]

64. Criminy

""They misunderestimate the fact that there were no solutions contemplated for such a disaster, let alone having a solution in place and ready to go if and when the worst happened.

Hindsight is wonderful, but people are blaming Obama for this when the technical expertise to deal with problems lies with BP and others in the oil industry, not with the government.""

Then why the fuck did Obama send Chu and others down to do 'oversight' on BP? Ya know, the plan to try to make the BOP work? Only then, BP decides to try it?

Methinks you are living a fantasy. You make shit up as you go along and don't even try to get the damn facts. My gawd.

[Nihil]

72. You were certainly talking about yourself at the end of your post ...

> Methinks you are living a fantasy. You make shit up as you go along
> and don't even try to get the damn facts.

... because that is EXACTLY what you did a few lines before:

> Then why the fuck did Obama send Chu and others down to do 'oversight'
> on BP? Ya know, the plan to try to make the BOP work? Only then,
> BP decides to try it?

You are so fucking wrong it is hard to see how you could ever get a clue.

Obama sent Chu down because people were moaning about his lack of action.
Political response - nothing more. (Mind you, that's about all you can
expect of a politician regardless of the letter after the name.)

The BP plan was in motion well before Obama's tame triangulation corps
made the call that it was time to move a senior chess piece into the arena.

FFS, Obama probably STILL doesn't know a fraction of what is going on down
there as everything that he is given is filtered by a dozen layers of policy
wonks and other assorted garbage. The idea that he (or Chu or any of his
tame suits) can give effective support to anyone who is involved with that
situation is so laughable that it could only have come from a genuine member
of the US "let's defend the president" wannabe proletariat who has been misled
from birth by the propaganda machine that purports to be journalism and who
is still dazzled by Hollywood SFX.

Yeah, your penultimate lines were bang on the money.

Have a nice day and remember to pray to your TV oracles tonight!

[BeFree]

75. well

You can call Obama a flat out liar, but this is what he said: He sent Chu along with some other people do do oversight of the BP BOP plans. That's what he claimed at his press conference. His words.

So, how am I "..so fucking wrong...."

But of course he sent Chu because people were complaining.

The BP plan, before the well was even drilled was to use the BOP to first stop a blow out and to have a shut-off valve on the wellhead. That's why it was there. But BP claimed that "it was broke, and it might blow up if we use it". Obama said Chu went there with the intention of confirming that, and to establish the science of whether the BOP would blow. Looks like BP decided, after 5 weeks, and with Chu, to try to work with the BOP.

Those are the facts as stated by Obama, and confirmed by BP.

So, by your little feeble outburst here, you have shown to be also making shit up.

Have a nice dinner eating your words, bub.

[Nihil]

83. Yes, very, thank you.

>> Obama sent Chu down because people were moaning about his lack of action.
>> Political response - nothing more.

That's what I said originally and it still stands.

> You can call Obama a flat out liar, but this is what he said:
> He sent Chu along with some other people to do blah blah blah
> That's what he claimed at his press conference. His words.
> So, how am I "..so fucking wrong...."

Because you are a gullible piece of pig-ignorant shit who thinks that
every action by your n-dimensional chess player is exactly what it has
been framed as by his publicity corps.

You somehow claim that BP were doing fuck-all until your almighty Obama
decided to send someone to check on them ...?!?!

That alone shows what a brain-dead tosser you really are. You have no concept
of the issues involved, just some bullshit ideas and conspiracy theories that
are supposed to shift the blame from where it belongs.

I'm not the one "making shit up" pal.


> The BP plan, before the well was even drilled was to use the BOP to first
> stop a blow out and to have a shut-off valve on the wellhead.
> That's why it was there.

Correct (first time so far but well done).

> But BP claimed that "it was broke, and it might blow up if we use it".

Incorrect. It broke at the time that it was needed (i.e., when the blowout
occurred). I'd have thought that even a technical neophyte like you would
have appreciated what had happened at that point. Ah well, maybe next time?

> Obama said Chu went there with the intention of confirming that, and to
> establish the science of whether the BOP would blow. Looks like BP decided,
> after 5 weeks, and with Chu, to try to work with the BOP.
> Those are the facts as stated by Obama, and confirmed by BP.

Nope. Those are the facts stated by BP and eventually accepted by your
puppy Obama. There was no "after 5 weeks" involved dickhead - they were
working on a bunch of possible solutions before your tame mouthpiece
even got off his arse.


> So, by your little feeble outburst here, you have shown to be also
> making shit up.

Wrong (yet again) bubba. Maybe next time you will learn something about
the matter that you are trying to discuss. There again, it has never
bothered you to be consistently posting "feeble outbursts" or, for that
matter, to be "making shit up".

[mike_c]

48. absolutely spot on rant....

Well said!

[TheKentuckian]

54. Who demanded a supernatural solution? I think you're making up stuff

to try and frame a point.

Every time someone gives real life steps that is ignored and the Superman meme is rolled back out.

The response IS NOT ALL ABOUT STOPPING THE LEAK. The leak is just a piece of the puzzle. BP has been dishonest and seeks only to cover their ass and so the interests of the habitat, the wildlife, and our people are not primary to them.

Sure, they want to close the gusher but only to a certain cost they have long ago calculated. You can bet your ass and your first born son's left nut that if BP knew full well that even a relief well wouldn't stop this but there was a 50 billion dollar solution that BP would surely just take their chances in court.
Hell, on day one if BP was offered a 5 billion dollar solution they'd reject it too. MAYBE just and only MAYBE they'd take the deal now. BP is all about BP not the United States and her citizens.

[stopbush]

55. It's not about "demanding" a supernatural solution,

it's about imagining that a supernatural solution is part of the mix. It's about supernatural solutions being in the deck of expectations that are wheeled out when any disaster happens along, and this disaster is no different.

And my rant isn't limited to the supernatural. It extends to all fantasy-based thinking that rears its ignoble head at times like this. Those whining about my dinging religion in my OP are the accommodationists and apologists for religion, ie: the people who can't abide any assault on their indoctrinated fantasies.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. 'xept that their costs are quickly aproacing that point

and they are not gaining anything from this. In fact, a few other conglomerates are chomping at the bit to take them over after they are that much weakened.

You should take a look at BP stock and how far it's been downgraded already.

[eridani]

61. There are political issues as well as scientific ones

Like corruption of regulatory agencies, and the fact that BP refuses to allow its workers to wear respiratory masks because they want to spike future liability claims.

[LWolf]

69. Fuck that shit.

Blaming anger about this disaster on magic, fiction, alternative medicine, astrology, Deepak Choprah, or any other "new age" thinking you despise has as little basis in reality as those things you love to hate.

I expect that science, as well as money, human resources, and persistent determination to succeed are what will finally end the flow of oil into the gulf. Whether or not those same things will prevent a repeat is a different story, since they aren't regularly employed when there's money to be made or power to maintain.

Using a disaster of this scale to promote a personal pet peeve is pathetic.

[dbt]

71. +42!

Well spoken.

[stopbush]

74. Whatever.

[BeFree]

80. Wow

What brilliance. What a scientific mind you have. NOT.

[Touchdown]

82. -42

Thin skinned and blithering.

You're getting drool on the tablecloth.

[Mojeoux]

73. K & Effing R

[The Straight Story]

78. And it was a leaked science caused as well

:evilgrin: