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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 12:58 AM
Original message
Updates from The Oil Drum and Monkeyfister
http://monkeyfister.blogspot.com/

Monkeyfister and The Oil Drum comments and screen grabs indicate that there are more leaks in the top of the BOP. The last comment I pasted here (#3) notes that the junk shot may be a result of the tests run on the BOP. That the BOP was possibly too damaged so their next step had to be the Junk Shot.


http://www.theoildrum.com/

Latest analysis excerpts:
1.

20:50 CDT Mil # ? ROV viewing leaks in crimped riser on top of the BOP facing 325 degrees azimuth. The leaks seem to have gotten worse. The plume on on the far right appears to be more directed with greater force. The one just right of center has three jets emanating from its base. Earlier it had two. Judging by the scrapes in the paint on the riser, a new leak on the left has erupted partly obscuring the two that were previously visible.


2.

according to bp

"too much heavy mud they were injecting into the spewing well was leaking along with oil. Engineers were revising plans, the New York Times reports"

that means that oil was leaking while they were doing the topkill. The amount of mud they were putting in was coming out of the well in the leak, along with oil

if oil was coming out then they could not have had much mud going down the wellbore right?

pressure would equalize at the choke inlet where the mud was being pumped in and no oil should be coming out after a few hours if there was mud going down the wellbore.

if the leak rate of the mud out the riser was close to 1,500 barrels per hour that is still a leak rate of 36,000 barrels per day of mud this would equate to about 45,000 barrels per day of gas/oil mix and at that pressure and temperature the volumetric flowrate of the oil/gas mixture is about 50/50 so that means about 22,500 barrels per day leak rate minimum.

possibly more if the topkill opened up the leak more.


3.

I think some here are misjudging the probable BP plan. Initial drilling fluid pumping was probably as much about testing the internal structure of the damaged BOP as it was about anything else. Engineers likely took the pressure readings and developed a model of the BOP to develop the next steps. Next pumping was likely to introduce minimal lost circulation material at increasingly higher flow rates to determine if the internal dynamics of the BOP or other drill string or annulus structural failers were present. The junk shot, apparently now occurring is likely based on these findings. My guess is that if they have moved straight to the actual junk shot, they have determined the BOP damage is the biggest problem and will attempt several relatively low pressure junk shots of different materials followed by drilling fluid at increasing pressure to test the effectiveness, followed by additional junk shots. While it would have been nice for initial testing and subsequent lost circulation pumping to show that a full top kill could be accomplished in a single step...that was always a long shot.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. IT is going crazy right now. Any word on what is going on with all the movement and haze?
Edited on Fri May-28-10 01:06 AM by FedUpWithIt All
It doesn't look good. :(
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Latest thread from drillingclub.proboards.com

I don't know what the haze is but it looks like they are working on the Junk Shot. I agree that things don't seem to be going well but they did warn it would take a while...


http://drillingclub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wellcontrol&action=display&thread=4840&page=8

Re: Cause of Blowout/Fire on Horizon
« Reply #224 Today at 12:20am »
I am curious:
(Before any mud pumping done) The change in appearance of the fluid flowing out of the main leak changed around Sun. 23rd if I recall correctly. There appeared to be much less gas, and it was reported as such. Plus, their riser insertion tube recovery fell off quite a bit. Timing-wise this co-incides with the information reported by AK regarding the (unproven as of yet) eruptive events about 400 feet from wellhead (crater in seabed). If there was another flow stream, such as from a leaking casing, etc., would that account for the changes observed in the main leak?
The latest news report that I saw reported they have not pumped mud since midnight of last night, but all morning up until about noon (CDST, US) the live feed showed an energetic leak that appeared as mostly mud. The news reports were conflicting, saying they were still pumping, which it appeared to be judging by appearance of leak. It is being reported as of now (7 PM CDST) they still have not resumed pumping, but I have not been able to find any video of the leak sites, I wonder if the well is still flowing? The news reports state they stopped pumping due to too much mud being lost out leaks. I am just curious what may be going on? Thanks for the time.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. A couple of minutes ago there seemed to be more "gunk" off the right side of the screen.
The camera moves so that this new flow is somewhat behind it but you can clearly see a new puff of mud off to the right side.

NOT looking good now
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I think they are testing, that's the optimistic take! nt
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. the drillingclub is one of the best sources ... discussing the second gusher, etc
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is some depressing information.
From what they're saying at the Oil Drum, and what MonkeyFister is explaining, this has already failed. I'm not feeling so hot. Seems like they may be going for the junk shot. I also read that the whole operation was down for 16 hours. If so, what was on the "live" spill cam? Reruns? I'm really depressed. I did have some hope that it was going to be okay. Now I'm not so hopeful.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I am also not feeling so hot. They may have no way other than the relief well
There was also the idea of a second BOP placed on top but hard to imagine they can pull that off. They'll probably tell a bit more tomorrow..
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. And smarter nations require the relief well from the start.
But we were greedy, complacent, and corrupt.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks for the links. I don't understand the process at all
so can only go by what people who do, have to say. All I can do is imagine a garden hose with at least one hole close to the top, turned on to full pressure, then trying to shove mud into it to stop the water from gushing out and then when there is enough mud (about halfway down the hose) capping it with cement.

My question is, if my analogy is anywhere close to what they are trying to do, even if they succeed, wouldn't the oil (water in my hose analogy) keep coming and maybe break open more holes in the pipe if it can't get past the mud and cement? I don't know, just asking as this is how I have imagined what they are trying to do.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. That sounds about right!
Here's what someone from the Oil Drum site just concluded below and I wonder if he (she?) is right and if there is a way to channel the flow at all:

<-> armchair roughneck on May 28, 2010 - 2:10am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top

I am becoming doubtful this top kill and junk shot will work. I think the only realistic solution has to be find a way to channel the flow to the surface and load it onto tankers until the relief well stops the flow.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Would it be possible to construct a mile long tube? Maybe 5-10 feet in diameter?
It could be lowered over the leak area and funnel most of the oil up to the top.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Here is the best post I've seen on this issue:
(from the Oil Drum)

1) The BOP and riser are anchored to the earth via steel pipe that is inserted thousands of feet into the well hole. Any force resisting the flow of oil and gas must be countered by this anchor. Whether the leak is stopped in the riser or BOP, the strain would be transmitted into the wall of the well hole.

2) Oil and gas are coming out under great pressure, far more than most of us have experienced (think multiple times higher than a scuba or CO2 tank).

3) If the oil and gas could be stopped instantly, the force of the moving oil and gas would spike to extremely high levels and could potentially blow open the riser, blowout the BOP, or even fracture the rock around the well hole, thereby destroying the anchor into the earth (think a very bad water hammer in a pipe). Therefore, the flow or oil and gas must be slowed gradually.

4) The only way to slow the flow at the top of the well is to resist it, either with one or more solid objects (junk, balls, valves, etc.) and/or with opposing pressure of either a liquid or gas (gas compresses, so it won't work, so liquid it is). The liquid of choice here is drilling mud.

5) The challenge of using a liquid is that it will flow to lower pressure outlets first. Since the ocean water is at lower pressure than the oil flowing out of the well, any liquid pumped against the flowing oil will tend to flow out into the ocean through the holes in the riser rather than into the well. It's like holding two garden hoses against each other so that the force of one balances the force of the other, the problem being that the water will tend to squirt out into the air through the gap between the hoses. In theory, if the pressure and flow were high enough and the outlets to the ocean are small enough, the leaks into the ocean would be too small to matter and mud pressure could be gradually increased to a point where the oil and gas would stop flowing.

6) One problem with using a moving liquid is that the pressure of any liquid here is so high that it erodes steel as it blasts past the steel. This is likely why the holes in the riser are getting worse; the mud and oil are literally cutting away the steel in the riser pipe. The question becomes, is the pressure in the drilling mud high enough to force back the oil while it also jets out through the holes in the riser given the size of the holes? Also, as mud pressure increases, will the mud and oil cut the holes in the riser faster than pressure can be increased? Time is a critical factor because the holes will grow in size. It appears that using a liquid back pressure alone has not worked and may be accelerating the rate of erosion of the holes in the riser.

7) Therefore, BP is attempting to use small solid objects (junk, balls, whatever) inserted into the flow to in effect make the holes in the riser and/or passages through the BOP smaller. However, these solid objects are just as prone if not more prone to erosion by high pressure liquids as steel pipe. The challenge here is that the smaller the spaces come between the junk, the faster the mud and oil will jet through them and the greater the power of the mud and oil to cut through the junk. In theory, if the pathways through which oil is passing gradually and uniformly fill with junk and then the gaps between the junk are gradually and uniformly filled with mud, then the flow will gradually stop. The operative work here is “uniformly.” In practice, the junk may not be tough enough to keep from being eroded away by the mud and oil. Further, the blockages created by the junk and mud may not be uniform enough to prevent the oil and mud from forming a very high pressure flow through one or more pathways through the junk and mud in which the flows have sufficient force to cut through almost anything that might block such paths. High pressure liquids have a way of flowing through gaps and then making them bigger.

8) If many small solid objects (junk and mud) injected into the flow do not work to keep pressure from leaking into the ocean, then it is possible to stop the flow with fixed objects, such as valves, or by crimping the leaking riser pipe.

9) It is likely that crimping the riser is not possible because equipment does not exist to apply sufficient force at this depth of water, and even if it did exist, it is not clear that the damaged riser could withstand the force of the oil and gas. Any crimping action would need to be done gradually so as not to create a pressure spike. Further, if the crimp in the riser was not very tight, the oil and gas would continue to jet through the crimp and gradually make any gaps bigger over time. The BOP is essentially a big crimper designed to crush the pipe that comes out of the well. BP believes that it partially crimped the pipe through the BOP. Some have theorized that the jetting oil has eroded paths around the BOP's hydraulic rams.

10) So, the last remaining method of stopping the flow at the outfall with a physical object is to install a valve or valves to the top of the BOP. The valves would need to be open when a fitting is attached to the top of the BOP because otherwise the pressure would be too great to position and fasten something to the top of the BOP. Also, putting a closed cap on the top of the BOP risks creating a pressure spike. Any such effort would require removing the damaged riser first. If the existing crimp in the riser is slowing flows, this would also mean that oil would flow faster between the time that the riser was removed and a valve or valves were attached to the top of the BOP and closed. Again, such a valve system could not be shut off quickly without risking rupturing the well hole and steel pipe on which the BOP is anchored. So BP would need to attach a valve in an open position and then slowly close it. In theory the valve could be just above the BOP or it could be at the surface end of a pipe that is attached to the top of the BOP. The drill ship is supposed to have valves that could gradually slow the flow, but the pressure would be enormous and the operation dangerous for the crew (think a blowout on the drill ship, but an expected one). I am unsure whether a valve exists that could be installed at the top of the BOP, although some have suggested stacking a second BOP on top of the first and using it as a valve.

11) It is also possible to capture oil and gas in a dome of some sort (as was attempted), but the dome must be heavy enough or otherwise anchored firmly enough to not float away due to being filled with gas and gas hydrates (as happened with the first dome), and the pipe coming out of the dome must be big enough to accommodate a turbulent flow or oil and the flow of gas (that expands something like 150 times in volume by the time it reaches the surface), as well as any sea water that is sucked in along with the oil and gas. Think about pouring a volume of liquid that could flow smoothly through the narrow end of a funnel if it were poured exactly into the middle of the funnel. In reality, the liquid flow would not be so exact but instead would hit the wider part of the funnel, swirl around, and back up and ultimately overflow the funnel because turbulence would ensure that the flow in would exceed the flow out. Now trying do the same thing with shaken up soda - the bubbles would make the flow even more turbulent. A dome is essentially a funnel with the narrow end up. It’s outlet would need to be much larger than the pipe that is discharging oil and gas.

12) It is also possible to stick a pipe into the flow and collect some of it, but as with the dome, turbulence would limit flows into such a pipe unless it has a diameter that is much larger than the diameter of the leaking pipe. BP inserted such a tube into the end of the riser and captured some oil, but it is not possible to force a turbulent mix of oil and water into a pipe that is about the same size or smaller than the pipe from which the oil is flowing. In theory, one could add suction to a smaller pipe making it the hose end of the world's biggest shopvac, but it is not clear that sufficient suction could be generated and that a pipe large enough in diameter exists to collect the oil/gas/water mix.

13) BP has attempted the dome and flowing mud tactic, and is now attempting to block the flow with small physical objects in combination with mud, but the leaks in the riser seem to be getting bigger. BP has also attempted to capture some of the oil with a smaller pipe, but it could only collect a small proportion of the total flows. BP might have chosen these efforts because they were easier and/or less risky. The problem is that time is a critical factor. The longer BP waits, the bigger the holes get, the faster the oil spills, and the worse the spill gets. BP may have no choice but to remove the riser and attach some sort of fitting to the top of the BOP. Perhaps it should have bitten the bullet and done this immediately. Whatever technique it uses, it should minimize the time between when the riser is off and the fitting is attached.

14) It is also possible to stop the flow underground through kill wells, but this will take time because a kill well needs to intersect the blow out well hole near the oil reservoir thousands of feet under the surface of the ocean.

My idea is to attach a Y valve at the top of the BOP, one side of which would empty into the sea and the other attached to a riser that goes up to the drill ship. Once the Y valve was attached, the flow could be gradually directed to the drill ship, which would release some of the pressure by separating and flaring the gas and collecting the oil. As the drill ship crew got a handle on the flows, the Y valve could increasingly divert flows to the surface, to a point where hopefully the drill ship could collect the entire flow and then gradually stop the flow. Yes, oil would flow into the ocean for a while, but that's what's happening anyway. The only other choice would seem to be to send the entire flow to the drill ship all at once, which would risk a second Deepwater Horizon type explosion.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. That is an excellent description. I understand more now.
It still seems like a very wide pipe settled over the leak area could channel the flow instead of a dome. It might narrow gradually but the base and for a long part of the extension would be wide. It would have to be several times wider than the leaking pipe. Aren't there 5 or 10' pipes they use somewhere?
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Given the conditions, I'm not sure there is a solution other than the relief well.
The best engineers are on this thing and, from what I can see, it's just a total crapshoot. Nothing like this has ever been done before, with all the conditions, miles beneath the ocean, with an insane amount of pressure pushing up from the earth, pressure they say they can't accurately calculate (which I don't buy, but you get the point.)

Some of the engineers just seem to think this is a spectacle. I'm not putting any hope into it anymore. My new hope is that they can ACTUALLY do a relief well in 2 months. There's been speculation that even the relief well could have complications in this situation. Beyond this, we have hurricane season coming. It's goddamn terrifying.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Also, imagine that you're doing this into a damaged hose that's under crazy amounts of pressure
and icing. The commentators were showing where it seemed to be splitting (the BOP, that is.) But I have no idea what the hell is going on. I'm just following what the engineers say.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
13. Heh. The Monkeyfister is talking about the Junk Shot
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. that's a mistranslation. Blessed are the EEK!
Edited on Fri May-28-10 06:20 AM by nashville_brook
love your sig line.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
18. Amazing stuff -- I don't understand it all --
But I certainly have a better idea of what's happen and
may happen than before.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. CHECK THESE SITES FOR IMAGES OF THE EROSION ON THE BOP nt
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
20. FRIDAY MORNING - THE OIL DRUM UPDATE - Oil spill halted but unclear if it can be sustained ?
Oil spill halted but unclear if it can be sustained

The flow of oil and gas from the broken well in the Gulf of Mexico has been stopped by pumping mud into it however the challenge will be whether that can be sustained, the U.S. incident commander Admiral Thad Allen said on Friday.

Allen said the next 12 to 18 hours will be "very critical" in the effort to stop the gusher which has sent thousands of barrels of oil into the fragile ecosystem there, he said on ABC's "Good Morning America".

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