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Patriotism Questioned !!!

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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 07:54 AM
Original message
Patriotism Questioned !!!
As eloquently stated by another DU member: "I question the patriotism of anyone who willfully and intentionally misrepresents facts in an effort to perpetrate propaganda on the American people - especially when that intention has nothing to do with presenting ideas for the American people to consider to make intelligent decisions."

This is an idea whose time has come - to challenge the patriotism of Fox News and other right wing shills who spew vicious lies to a gullible public.

Thank you Kevin.
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. LOL
We're not that far removed from "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" to take this Orwellian turn quite yet, are we?
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I don't see it that way...
...if you're shilling for international corporations at the expense of the American people, that's unpatriotic. Not saying it's a crime, but you should be called on it.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. if you don't see it that way you need to remove your blinkers
Who are YOU to classify others as un-patriotic? Do you bend over backwards to verify that the person you are labeling is indeed shill for corporations? Or do you make that decision yourself - the facts be damned?

This *IS* an Orwellian response which is more appropriate for the likes of Free Republic, or some other anal-fixated rightwing basement that can be found.

Don't bring that crap here please.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. So you're saying it's not unpatriotic to ....
... purchase a nation-wide television broadcasting company and hire people to go on the air specifically to tell lies about matters that are important to America?

For example, Barak Obama was born in Kenya. Proven false, many times over. But you're saying it's not unpatriotic (sorry about the double negative) to say this on TV?

That's not dissent. It's a falsehood intended to dupe Americans into believing the duly-elected President shouldn't be allowed to govern.

I for one will reserve my right to say it's unpatriotic.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Except it is not
Imagine if all those Medal of Honor winners had not followed orders but had dissented. Imagine soldiers talking back to their superiors. While the right to dissent is protected as free speech it does not automatically make the speaker patriotic., or we could consider that weird Preacher that protests all military funerals as being the most patriotic man in America..
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. lol. AFAIK the medal of honor is awarded for "service above and beyond the call of duty".
So per definition, the deed is specifically something that one could not have ordered someone to do.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. did you mean to post this elsewhere?
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Did you?
;)
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Hmmm seems like they were in the situation, not because of dissent but because of patriotism
:shrug:
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Fox is not dissenting, they are lying. They are fomenting dissent with lies. There's a big
difference between that and medal of honor winners refusing to follow unlawful orders.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. The basic problem with patriotism today is: many people confuse it with nationalism. nt
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. And/Or much worse
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jotsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. Patriotism defined.
As per Random House College Dictionary, April, 2001.

...devoted love, support and defense of one's country, national loyalty.

Oddly enough, the root word has a definition ending that first part with an extension of, "and it's interests".

Which brings me to a couple of points. Both center around a word that throws a bit of wrench into everything. Interpretation.

As avidly employed in philosophy by by both the Bushco Yoo team and the judicial branch's choice to cover law enforcement's perception of the use of deadly force as reasonable. A steadier trend when voicing their interpretation of upholding order through the rule of law.

The ambiguity of interpretation as it applies to the question of patriotism is as avidly available. Is it more or less patriotic to abide by principles originally laid out or honor the working model which seems out of sync with its supposed charter?

Well, depends on your perception, doesn't it?

As for misinformation and the garbage that a public is willing to gobble as gospel, we'd need another thread to really pick that one clean.

BTW Scuba, I've been meaning to remedy an oversight on my part which I'll take advantage of here. Thank you for your service.

K and R

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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. Patriotism is for idiots and fools anyway.
Never was a patriot yet, but was a fool. – John Dryden

A patriot is a fool in ev’ry age. – Alexander Pope.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. – Samuel Johnson

In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first. – Ambrose Bierce

Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen. – Ambrose Bierce

That pernicious sentiment, “Our country, right or wrong.” – James Russell Lowell

“My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.” – G. K. Chesterton

Patriotism which has the quality of intoxication is a danger not only to its native land but to the world, and “My country never wrong” is an even more dangerous maxim than “My country, right or wrong.” – Bertrand Russell

Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. – George Bernard Shaw

You’ll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it. – Denis Diderot

To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. – George Santayana

The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations. – H.G. Wells

Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. “Patriotism” is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one’s country which is not part of one’s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. – Erich Fromm

One of the great attractions of patriotism–it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat, Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. – Aldous Huxley

Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudice and “patriotism” . . . Extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots – Gordon Allport

It seems like the less a statesman amounts to, the more he loves the flag. – Elbert Hubband

Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy. – William Inge

Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism corrupts history. – Goethe

Into the cultural and technological system of the modern world, the patriotic spirit fits like dust in the eyes and sand in the bearings. Its net contribution to the outcome is obscuration, distrust, and retardation at every point where it touches the fortunes of modern mankind. – Thorstein Veblen

The standardization of mass-production carries with it a tendency to standardize a mass-mind, producing a willing conformity, not merely to common ways of living, but to common ways of thinking and common valuations. The worst defect of patriotism is its tendency to foster and impose this common mind, and so to stifle the innumerable germs of liberty. – J.A. Hobson

2. Patriotism and War:

At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot. – Jules Renard

No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism. – Preserved Smith

Naturally the common people don’t want war . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism. – Hermann Goering.


3. Patriotism and Religion:

Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched. – Guy de Maupassant

God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed. – Luis Buñuel

To be patriotic, hate all nations but your own; to be religious, all sects but your own; to be moral, all pretenses but your own. – Lionel Strachey

When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism! – David Starr Jordan

4. The American Syndrome:

If you have a weak candidate and a weak platform, wrap yourself up in the American flag and talk about the Constitution. – Matt Quay

How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be “American” before (or in contradistinction to) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the same intellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for our shortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism. – Edith Wharton

The 100 percent American is 99 percent an idiot. – George Bernard Shaw

Treason is in the air around us everywhere. It goes by the name of patriotism. – Thomas Corwin
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Impressive collection! nt
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Great flipping post!!!
I'm saving this one!

Thanx, LOoniX!
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