A call for Civil Disobedience in regard to BP's shutting out the PRESS & Others From Beaches

[Vinnie From Indy]

After reading so many stories lately where BP seems to be controlling all access to areas that are being coated with oil I would offer that ALL and ANY Americans should resist to the point of going to jail these so called restricted access areas. This should all be done non-violently of course, but it should be done. I am simply stunned that so many in the press and from environmental groups seem to be cowed and restrained solely by the threat of being arrested. Jesus H Christ, this is OUR country and we have a long history of civil disobedience. Get out there and get those pictures and document this historic tragedy of epic proportions.

For those that offer that restricting access is for safety reasons and to prevent disruption of ongoing efforts to clean the spill, I say bullshit! These latest restrictions are part of BP's strategy to avoid blame and liability. The world needs to know and the threat of arrest should not stop reporters and others from documenting this event.

[DrDan]

1. so you are willing to throw the jounalists under the bus . . . .

and you will . . . . .what?

[Vinnie From Indy]

2. What?

That is not at all what I wrote. I simply offered that reporters and others that are attempting to document this disaster not be intimidated by BP or anyone that threatens arrest for shooting footage of oil coated beaches and wildlife.

[MineralMan]

11. And you're suggesting that others do what you will not.

Start a blog. That makes you a journalist. Go to the Gulf. Get arrested. Write about it.

Civil disobedience is the forum only of those who participate in it. Standing on the sidelines does not qualify.

I've been arrested half a dozen times in civil disobedience actions. None have resulted in any charges or any court dates. More's the pity.

If you are going to call on others to engage in civil disobedience, you must go and be there to participate. Otherwise you have no stake in it.

Sorry, but that's how it works. Otherwise it is just another "Let's you and him fight" bit of nonsense.

Activism is done by activists, not by sideliners.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

23. Ridiculous and authoritarian.

You do not have the rule book because there isn't one. And you have no business trying to shut people with ideas up.

Geezus. This is why 9/11 happened. Mom is right about us. We'd rather turn on each other than listen, let alone, think.

[DrDan]

36. here here - thank you!

[Kalyke]

44. Starting a blog doesn't make one a journalist.

First, you need to learn about communications laws so you're ass isn't sued and so you understand your rights under the Constitution.

Then, you need to learn how to write hard news using a hook or in inverted pyramid style.

All these people blogging are, yes, keeping online journals, but journalists, they're not (save a few like the Marshall guy over at TPM who really is a trained journalist).

[MineralMan]

47. Thanks for that lesson.

I guess my 20 something years spent as a professional journalist were wasted, then.

Oh, well.

[EFerrari]

52. If your first impulse is to nag at someone with an idea

yeah, it looks like they were. Oh, well.

[Vinnie From Indy]

67. I certainly think they were wasted after reading your posts

If you were indeed a career journalist, which I doubt.

Quite simply, do you or do you not think reporters should risk arrest, and if need be get arrested, to get the story and the pictures about oil fouled beaches?

It is a VERY simple question that I am quite sure a real journalist could respond to without all the hyperbole and nonsense that typify your responses. Paging Mr. Murrow...paging Mr. Murrow. :)
Cheers!

[MineralMan]

70. It's a matter for the conscience of the individual.

[DrDan]

37. so you are calling for them to risk arrest to get a story . . .

sounds like you are throwing them under the bus to achieve your goals (does to me, anyway)

[Vinnie From Indy]

40. Oh, I get it...you guys work in shifts

You must be the morning guy. Sounds like you guys really, really don't want these pictures of soiled beaches to be shown to the American public (does to me anyway).
Cheers!

[DrDan]

41. if you check, my friend, I responded last evening around 7:00

I assume you are on your way down to take a few pictures yourself and share with the public. Right?

or is it just the journalists that should risk arrest?

[Vinnie From Indy]

45. I just think you are one of those guys that does not want ANYONE

to document the spill effects on the beaches and that is why you and your cohorts are injecting such a high level of ignorance and misdirection. Why is it you do not want journalists to document the spill even if that means they might be arrested? Please explain?

My post was clear and direct in offering that journalists and environmentalists should not be intimidated by the threat of arrest. And, I am quite confident that many in both fields understand that there are instances where the freedom of the press will put them in conflict with bad laws or illegal restrictions that have yet to be heard in court. American history is filled with folks that have defied the law to serve a greater purpose. Your immature and silly response is that unless I personally go to these beaches that I should not encourage those that are there already to do the right thing and not be intimidated. You seem to believe that I have no right to offer that the threat of arrest should not be a reason not to go to these places BP so desperately wants to keep hidden. You are either advancing your position from ignorance or as a tactic to misdirect readers from the central point of my post. EIther way I have faith that most DU'ers understand my call for civil disobedience for what it is and I would most definitely be on the beaches if they were anywhere close to me right now.

Why not just admit that you do not think that anyone should be documenting the effects of the oil on the beaches? Your position is quite clear to me.

Lastly, do you think that no journalist or environmentalist should go to these beaches if they are threatened with arrest? That is the central point here.

Cheers!

[DrDan]

48. leading from behind, are we . . .

typical . . .

afraid to do the heavy carrying yourself - so encourage others to do the real work. No wonder liberals are looked down upon. Just more of the "entitlement class" behavior.

[EFerrari]

58. Are you threatened any time someone around you has an idea?

That must be terrible.

[DrDan]

59. not in the slightest . . . so asking journalists to risk arrest is a worthy idea . . .

I guess sitting safely at home in the midwest . . . . it could be considered so

[EFerrari]

61. You bet challenging the media to do their job is a worthy idea.

But I understand that from your exposed position behind a keyboard, you may not understand that.

[DrDan]

62. and you are the quintessential activist . . .

[EFerrari]

64. I'm not ashamed of my own activism, no. n/t

[Vinnie From Indy]

66. You know what is typical?

Guys like you refusing to address specific questions like the ones I posed above. That is what is typical.

Also, who exactly looks down on Liberals? Would that be you and your Freeper brethren? Your post reveals you to be exactly who I thought you were. Why not just grow some balls and debate the issue by answering my question. Do you think that journalists should risk jail to get the story about oil fouled beaches or not?

Again, I await your "typical" and very obvious tap dance. You guys are so easy to read. If it isn't the spelling and grammatical errors, it is the mindless BS you think passes for debate.

Cheers!

[DrDan]

69. that's rich

you call on journalists to risk arrest because you don't have the cajones to do so yourself.

Then when called on it - you call others "freepers".

Big f****ng man - hiding Cheney-like in your hidey-hole behind your keyboard.

[Vinnie From Indy]

74. you simply want to change the subject

Your position is quite clear. You simply want to kill the notion that reporters and others should not be intimidated by the threat of arrest in pursuit of documenting this tragedy. You try desperately to make the notion of civil disobedience personal to me. Not a very hard thing to do, but I think most DU'ers understand perfectly what my OP was about.

Lastly, who knows Dr. Dan maybe someday life will afford us the opportunity for you to judge the size of my cajones for yourself in person.
Cheers!
:)

[DrDan]

75. nope - not changing any subject - the author of the OP is nothing more than a keyboard-warrior

that was my first post . . . and continues to be so

[Canuckistanian]

17. Wha? "Journalists under the bus"?

How did you get THAT from the OP?

[DrDan]

35. was there not a suggestion that journalists risk arrest to get a story?

[Canuckistanian]

38. Oh, I get it

Never mind.

[Raven]

3. Well, let's see...we know that the press always has the best interests

of the victems and the greater civic good in mind. We know that there will not be a media circus...we know that the media won't be crawling over booms and tramping through marshes and wetlands to get their story...we're absolutely sure of all of that aren't we?

I'm not and after watching the MSM for all these years, I say keep the fuckers out since they are only making money for their masters and let the people sweating and toiling in the oil and mud be free of them.

[William Z. Foster]

5. interesting

So, government and the press have failed us - because they have been corrupted and controlled by corporations - so we should toss what is left of the press and what is left of the government out and just turn everything over to the corporations outright.

[Raven]

6. Gee, I don't think I said all of that. I think I said that we maybe should let the

folks toiling in the cleanup do their work. Of course, if the media want to go 5,000 feet down and mees around with the leak, fine, they can deal with BP on that. But that's not what the media want, I suspect. Why can;t we just let the folks who are trying to save birds and their marshes do it without FOX and MSNBC getting in the way?

[William Z. Foster]

7. I don't watch Fox or MSNBC

I want the reporters and agencies I DO trust to have access. Who wouldn't?

Avoiding "having the press in the way" is the same excuse the Pentagon has been using to suppress coverage of the wars.

If you did not "say all that" then please explain yourself.

[EFerrari]

4. You bet. I hope Amy goes down there.

:kick:

[RoyGBiv]

8. You on your way?

[AlinPA]

9. I don't care if the assholes from MSNBC, CNN and Fox are kept away. nt

[MineralMan]

10. You go first, then. How does that sound?

It's easy to say, "Let's you and him fight." The only civil disobedience that counts is the civil disobedience you do. Proposing that others do it is a hollow thing.

Start a blog. Go down there. Get arrested. Write about it. Otherwise....

Sorry to be blunt, but nobody who doesn't act in civil disobedience gets to tell others that they should.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vinnie From Indy]

25. In the first place, that is not what I said

In the second, you have a bizarre idea and historically ignorant understanding of civil disobedience. It seems clear to me that you have simply made up a scenario in your head and decided to throw a hissy fit.

IN addition, your idea of civil disobedience would have made both Dr. King and Ghandi laugh at you. They did their work for people without disqualifying those that did not or could not join them on the ramparts.

Cheers!

[MineralMan]

46. No, I understand civil disobedience very well.

Neither Ghandi nor Dr. King sat at home and asked that others commit acts of civil disobedience. Rather, they engaged in such acts themselves, and then encouraged others to join them.

It is, in my opinion, you who do not understand the historical realities of civil disobedience. You cannot ask others to do what you will not. That's a fundamental tenet.

If you wish others to engage in civil disobedience, go there yourself, then ask them to follow you.

[EFerrari]

51. I guess I missed that whole part of the OP where Vinny compared himself to Gandhi!

:rofl:

[DrDan]

63. then again . . . to personally get involved in a bit of civil disobedience requires

a modicum of bravery.

To ask others to do so requires none.

[Vinnie From Indy]

68. Look, you fool no one with your argument!

You write,
"Neither Ghandi nor Dr. King sat at home and asked that others commit acts of civil disobedience. Rather, they engaged in such acts themselves, and then encouraged others to join them."

I can perfectly understand why you would take the position that my call for reporters who are already there and environmental activists that are already there to consider pursuing this story to the point of being arrested for shooting pictures on a public beach. It is the easiest way to try and distract and misdirect readers from the fact that reporters and others that want to document this disaster and are being threatened with arrest should consider taking an arrest to do so if that what is what it takes.

You are as subtle as an elephant when it comes to trying to dissuade the idea of civil disobedience from being discussed here on DU. Your goal here is not hidden that well I trust from most Du'ers.

Lastly, you could just answer the question of whether you think that reporters or others that care about the Gulf and this country should risk arrest, and get arrested if need be, to get the pictures and videos of these oil fouled beaches. That should give us a good point with which to continue the discussion more fully.

Cheers!

[MineralMan]

12. Here are driving directions from Indianapolis to Plaquemines Parish

It's just a 16 hour drive.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Indianapolis,+IN&daddr=Plaquemine,+LA&hl=en&geocode=FTjRXgIdJlXd-ikDanmn_1BriDF86rlA9p2O1g

[flyarm]

15. It is our government we should be protesting..they are the one's turning over control to the

corporate whores and murderers of our Gulf!

Go after those who we are the employers of ..the leaders of our government..but never forget we are the true leaders..we hire them and we can fire them! WE are our government..and when our leaders fuck us and our nation..go after them!

And tell the damn truth!

This administration has turned over their responsibility to BP..This administration holds the keys to this recovery ...to think or pretend otherwise is to lie!

I know damn well that over one month ago..the people of Florida working to save the sea creatures and birds took their complaints directly to Obama and to Janet Napolitano of Homeland Security..I know because ti was on lour local Fla news for days!

Pass the buck if you want to ..but I live on the Gulf and I am damn sick of the lies and the transfer of anger from where it truely belongs!

The buck has been passed long enough!

[EFerrari]

21. It's not an either/or situation.

Has the media shown the clean up workers that BP will not allow to wear particle masks?

[flyarm]

27. BP has done nothing but lie and obstruct..and our government leaders have let them!

in fact i would go as far as saying our government has covered up their ies and obstruction! And even encouraged them to lie and obstruct.

[EFerrari]

29. I'm with you, fly. And we need actual journalists to show up.

If we still have any in this joint.

[flyarm]

33. this is nt new , many of us on the gulf have been saying it for over a month

and we have been harrassed and basically told to stfu...

there are journalists ..some very good journalists trying to do their job..and they have been threatened and pushed back by our government and our coast guard and espeically BP..with the blessing of this administration.

Too many greased pockets ...and i don't mean with oil..i mean with oil money! Both damn sides of the isle.

this is just another mere example..

even here I saw a report posted here today that was locked and the person who locked it said they questioned the report ...well i damn well know the reporter ..he was a editor for the St Pete Times who followed me as a delegate in the 2004 Democratic convention..

He is very pro democrat..and yet today his report was squashed here at DU saying his report was bogus..Well i say that poster was bogus!

I know the man and i respect the hell out of him..because he was one of few who went against the Jeb machine and stood up for truth ..at the cost of his job! And yet the ass wipe reporter who kissed the repig asses gets respect here now with his REAL bogus reports! A scum bag reporter who I wouldn't waste my spit on .

Up is down now and down is up..it is truely amazing to me...and disgusting beyond words. AND THE WORLD WILL PAY A VERY DEAR PRICE FOR THIS.

I just returned from France today ..at the airport in Paris I saw more real news about the Gulf than i see on national news here!..what a sad state we are in.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4401658

[Mojorabbit]

16. Take the 24 hour

hazmat course. That will qualify you to be in the thick of the mess. The people doing wildlife rehab have had to do it. I have taken the four hour course and unless OSHA waves the mandatory 24 hour course have to do it myself if I get called to help clean birds. I have friends that did the exxon spill and many of them have lung problems and I wonder if it is a coincidence or not. Lots of toxic chemicals in the oil but the class will help one be informed about how to avoid health risks. Then pick up a camera and go to town doing photos. It would be a wonderful thing to document. If I was younger I would seriously consider doing it myself.

[flyarm]

18. hell BP was keeping those trained away in Fla and that was over 1 month ago..they took their

complaints directly to Janet Napolitano and were going to protest her ( when she came to Fla) if they had to, to get her damn attention..they complained to Obama..they were being lied to and kept away by BP a month ago!

The buck stops at the top !

[Mojorabbit]

22. Well

we are getting regular updates on the Florida Wildlife Rehab Assoc listserv from FWC so I am going by that. I see that there are some issues from http://owcnblog.wordpress.com/ but infrastructure is being set up to deal with the wildlife including Fl.

[flyarm]

28. BP was obstructing them over a month ago..and the complaints went to the top of our government

why was nothing done then?? the deflection went to BP..instead of our government! And it still is!

Our waters are being destroyed , our wild life..our air ..bullshit only goes so far..the destruction will be with us for decades and decades!

The buck has been passed to BP the fuckers who destroyed our waterrs..they are allowed to control the media ..on our beaches and our air.fuck that!

Where the fuck has our government been??????????????? why has BP the fuckers who destroyed our Gulf been given total control of our beaches, the air we breathe and the news of this ?????????

This is not new..this has been going on since the get go!

[Mojorabbit]

34. I agree the response

has been less than adequate. Reactive instead of proactive. Wait till the reefs start dieing by our coasts and oiled creatures start showing up on our beaches. Only then will you see anything happen here and it will be too late. Nothing is being done now to protect sensitive areas here beforehand.

[flyarm]

39. hell i was counting dead birds on our beach in SW Fla a month ago.

as well as dead fish..and "less than adequate" is barely scratching the surface of this disgeace..our government relegated their responsibility to BP from the get go..they allowed a huge cover up and to deny that is denying truth.
This current government capitulated their responsibility to allow the cover up of this catastrophe.

Ask yourself who and why is the Obama admins covering up for ........I have aksed myself as have many on the gulf..you may not want the answer we come up with..it is not pretty..or in a package with a pretty bow!

The water, the air and the eco system has been turned over to the very bastards that destroyed it...by this current administration. Those are facts!

Our local media has been hoodwinked! They are threatened and silenced.

And the cover ups go deep! On both sides of the isle!

The RESPONSE was to defer everything..our beaches , our water and our air, our wild life ,our sea life, our eco system to BP..for a disgusting cover up!

And this is an epic cover up!

And the anger of the people who are watching this up close is at a tipping point.

This is my back yard..imagine yourself seeing these dead birds and fish and turtles in your back yard..and black sky over just your back yard..and a stink that burns your throat and eyes and makes you feel sick..just hanging over your back yard..just imagine walking on a beautiful pristine white sand beach as your back yard and at the waters edge the sky is jet black like night time..but there isn't a cloud in sight and the sun is shinning bright except over the water which is black like the darkest night...think of it like the sun so bright all over the sky and a black black cloud over your pool in your back yard..I have now seen this numerous times!

And have no idea what the fuck we are breathing..or what damage it will do to our bodies or our lungs!

And get a fucking run around from our government and get told to ask B.P.

BP and this government can kiss my ass!

What a fucking disgrace..

change????? what a fucking joke..change?? yeah right!? what nerve anyone has to say that today!..they better not say it to my face!


I have a grand daughter on the west coast of the US and i have asked my son and daughter in law not to bring her here this summer..I don;t want her breathing the air we have had..and I am 300 miles from the initial gusher! When in the future will I be able to have my grand daughter come to play on the beach with my husband and I again?? safely????? Am I supposed to ask BP??????????? since our government is all in the bag with their pockets all greased by and with BP????????????????


Gulf Oil Spill Is Public Health Risk, Environmental Scientists Warn
Scientists don't agree with this sentence - "Except for 3 beaches in LA., all of the Gulf's beaches are open; they are safe & they are clean" - take heed in listening to the scientists statement. I will not be venturing back into the water of the gulf like I did a few weeks ago. I will believe the people who are dealing with it, who are falling ill, and the scientists.


From the Guardian/UK 5/28/2010 ---

Gulf Oil Spill Is Public Health Risk, Environmental Scientists Warn

• Pollution could do lasting damage to locals' health

With no immediate end in sight, there were growing concerns over the effects on public health of a prolonged exposure to the oil as well as to the more than 800,000 gallons of chemical dispersants sprayed on the slick.

Environmentalists and fishing groups in Louisiana say prolonged exposure to the oil, in the form of tiny airborne particles as well as dispersants, could be wreaking devastating damage on public health.

They also accuse BP of threatening to sack workers who try to turn up for clean-up duty wearing protective respirators, and the Obama administration of refusing to release results of air and water quality tests that would show the impact of crude oil and dispersants on the environment.

Wilma Subra, a chemist who has served as a consultant to the Environmental Protection Agency, said there was growing anecdotal evidence that locals were falling ill after exposure to tiny airborne particles of crude. Air quality data released earlier by the EPA suggested the presence of chemicals that – while still within legal limits – could be dangerous. But Subra complained that the EPA was not releasing all data it had gathered from BP.

"Every time the wind blows from the south-east to the shore, people are being made sick," she said. "It causes severe headaches, nausea, respiratory problems, burning eyes and sore throats." Long-term health effects include neurological disorders and cancer.


Much more at link - - -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/28/bp-gu...


Thanks to Divine Discontent for this post ...here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x319576

[blindpig]

42. +1

Right, right, right.

[Synicus Maximus]

19. I;m sorry just what kind of civil disovedience are you suggesting.

[Vinnie From Indy]

20. I did not think my post was that ambiguous, but

I am merely suggesting that reporters and others that are being turned away from oiled beaches should consider going to those beaches for the photos at the risk of being arrested and getting arrested if that is the result. That's it! That is all I am offering.

[EFerrari]

24. This place reads just like Free Republic sometimes.

Unreal.

And I hope real journalists do step up and get out there and film this crime scene.

[Vinnie From Indy]

26. Cheers to you!

:)

[inna]

65. +100. Unreal, is right.

[DrDan]

49. the author would like someone to do his heavy lifting . . . .

ok for others to risk arrest . . .

[EFerrari]

50. Oh, baloney.

Since when does encouraging the indy media = asking others to do your heavy lifting?

Sheesh.

[DrDan]

53. read the OP . . . crystal clear

[EFerrari]

55. Ridiculous. By the same logic, we should never encourage anyone

who doesn't work in our own field. Do you cheer football players?

Seriously silly.

[DrDan]

57. we don't encourage them to risk arrest, now do we?

speaking of ridiculous, read the OP - asking journalists to break the law because the author does not care to do so himself

[EFerrari]

60. Lol. Unlike yourself, actual journalists know the stakes here

as does anyone who understands the position of our media.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

30. They'll get fired...

Remember Reagan and the FCC? Big Oil owners a TV owners are now the same people.

[lonestarnot]

31. K & R to the moon and back!

[lonestarnot]

32. Out of work fishermen need to unite. Fuck those Bunghole Polstice work-list! Start your own.

Fishermen need to stick together, support one another and exchange contact information and place it in one spot for call-out duty.

[BelgianMadCow]

71. out of work fishermen sponsored by out of state sympathisers

doesn't sound bad at all. I'm sure many people are :nuke: at the moment that want to DO something. If it helps & hurts BP....

Just make sure everybody is protected and trained, otherwise it's unresponsible ofc.

[marions ghost]

43. K & R

-----

[Quantess]

54. Wow, people are sure grumpy on this thread.

[EFerrari]

56. "Ask not what your country will do for you --"

"Do your own heavy lifting!"

*

"We shall overcome --"

"Overcome and then get back to me, you lazy bastard."

*

"I dreamed things that never were and asked, why not?"

"How conveeeeeeeeeeeeeenient."

:rofl:

[butterfly77]

72. I agree..

except for the fact that when the media does go,they don't seem to be trying to find out what BP is doing or not doing they are trying to find out how they can blame it on the President,. Now,when Bush was the so called Pres they were doing the opposite lying and covering up for him for 8 years...

[saras]

73. Ask for help

What we need to do (not the BP/government coalition, the rest of us) is to invite the Chinese, the Brazilians, the Indians, Europeans, anyone with independent scientific capacity AND the legal clout to fight with BP, to go in and take pictures, water samples, everything the US should be doing independently of the oil industry and isn't. Let the Coast Guard take on the entire world community instead of a handful of American reporters.

[JCMach1]

76. there is probably a documentary in here somewhere....

any aspiring filmmakers?

[revolution breeze]

77. I heard an interesting idea yesterday

Someone called into a radio show and said we need to get a thousand volunteers on the beach in Grand Isle and publicly shave their heads and throw the hair into the water. It would be a strong, poignant (albeit not really effective on stopping the oil) picture, almost like seeing a thousand cancer patients. Of course the radio host poo-pooed the idea saying the loose hair might gunk up equipment of kill wildlife but we need a strong visual element to catch people's attention. Never mind, you're right, it wont bother them until it hits them in the wallet!