Why can't we hold BP responsible like we would hold a human being responible?

[redirish28]

My wife posed this question and was told by some people that her liberal thinking is what is going to destroy this country. I'm asking it here.


Since Corporations have more and more rights like Human beings in this country why shouldn't they be held responsible like a person would be. Keep in mind of the recent supreme court ruling that allows Corporations to donate to campaigns now.

BP have basically destroyed the gulf and has basically place people in the unemployment lines. Yet BP is allowed to Be in control of caping the leak and determining how much damage is being done and is only paying pennies on the dollar to those fishermen who can "prove" to BP that they have fished in that area.

If this had been an individual who had let's say poured Motor Oil directly into a town's water system what would happen? He'd be put in jail at the very least until bail could be set. If he could make bail wouldn't the court insure this person could not leave the area by freezing his/her assets and not allowing this person to control the clean up?


Yet Here is our Government allowing BP to take charge of the clean up and fixing the mess (unsucessfully) and figuring out the damage this spill is causing.

Some people said my wife was speaking nonsense when she said that the Government should have shut down BP's operations (until the reason and responsibly for the leak to be determined at the very least.) Their assets should be frozen and they shouldn't be allowed to control the infomation about the leak or be in charge of cleaning it up.

Is my wife unreasonable in this idea?

[napi21]

1. I hate to say it, but the laws covering corps. still protect the

officers of that corp. I don't think it matters what the SCOTUS said. If your case was presented to them, they'd rule against you.


That's the main reason for a business to incorporate. Exemption of the officers to liability for actions of the corporation.


The only way one or all of the officers, in this case at least, could be prosecuted criminally is if there was some proof that he(they) gave direct orders to do the damage, and even if that was true, there's no documentation of it anywhere, and I positive of that!

[The Straight Story]

2. I think once a root cause analysis is done, and you can find blame with people

within the corp, go for it.

[wial]

3. Maybe the only way to get results is

to start dumping oil into legislative chambers around the country, so they'll get the visceral experience they need to motivate them. Anyone with the money to get elected in America has the money to be too sheltered to understand real problems and real experiences. We can take a page from the yippies who dumped blood in similar venues during Vietnam, and give our coddled lawmakers a taste of the medicine their policies force down our throats.

Obviously Wall Street would be another good location. Let's see them bid away our pensions while coated in toxic oil.

OK OK it's across the line, so I'll just join in the question: how do we the people take the country and government back from these golem corporations?

I liked the meme going around a few weeks ago that if corporations want to be persons, that means buying and selling stocks should be illegal because it's trafficking in persons, i.e. slavery.

[Kievan Rus]

4. Because that would be SOCIALISM!

:sarcasm:

[Imajika]

5. Yes, your wife is speaking nonsense...

"why shouldn't they be held responsible like a person would be."

What are you going to do? Arrest all BP employees? Maybe arrest the corporate papers and lock them up in some kind of document prison?

"BP have basically destroyed the gulf"

No. Just no. The Gulf is not "destroyed". It is a very big body of water and it isnt even remotely close to being "destroyed".

"If this had been an individual who had let's say poured Motor Oil directly into a town's water system what would happen?"

BP is not intentionally dumping oil into the Gulf. It is an accident. They may very well be liable of having been negligent, but they are not losing all this money on purpose. This would be more like if someone carelessly, but accidentally, knocked over drums of motor oil into the town's water system.

"Yet Here is our Government allowing BP to take charge of the clean up and fixing the mess (unsucessfully)"

Our government has no clue whatsoever how to stop the oil leaking. If they are/were in charge they would just call in oil company experts and oil company equipment to try to solve the problem. BP knows much more about this than the US government.

"Some people said my wife was speaking nonsense when she said that the Government should have shut down BP's operations (until the reason and responsibly for the leak to be determined at the very least.)"

What good would this do?

"Their assets should be frozen and they shouldn't be allowed to control the infomation about the leak or be in charge of cleaning it up."

Again, what good would this do? Why do you think the US government could stop the leak or clean up the mess? It is going to take oil drilling experts to plug the well, not paper pushers in the Federal Government. Handing things off to the government is not some magical solution to things.

BP is going to have to pay for much of this, what good would shutting them down be? It's better they make enough money to pay for the mess they've made. In the long run, BP is may be finished. It will happen legally and over time, but by the time the company pays all the damages, settles lawsuits, etc, they just might be out of business anyway.

[Fumesucker]

7. BP will never pay for more than a small percentage of the actual damage done..

From what I have read on the cause of the leak it was more like willful and malicious negligence on the part of BP, their representative deliberately chose a less safe (but faster and less costly) method of finishing the well head, overruling the expert contractors on the scene.

Not all BP employees are responsible for the leak, but some are and those employees should be identified and punished, arrest and prosecution is certainly not out of the question for those responsible individuals.

This gusher has the potential of destroying the livelihood of a vast number of people in and around the Gulf and wreaking havoc on an extremely important and sensitive ecosystem.

[Angry Dragon]

9. Do not forget the 11 people murdered

[metapunditedgy]

10. More importantly, the *executives* at BP who built this culture of greed and negligence

will probably end up free and richer than before. (Somehow.)

Money is nothing to BP, the corporation.

[William Z. Foster]

11. response

What are you going to do? Arrest all BP employees? Maybe arrest the corporate papers and lock them up in some kind of document prison?

No one need be arrested. Can you think of no other model than this?

No. Just no. The Gulf is not "destroyed". It is a very big body of water and it isnt even remotely close to being "destroyed".

You can define "destroyed" any way you want to. I suppose you could say that as long as there is still water in it it has not been "destroyed." The question is do you find the amount of damage already done acceptable, or not? Many find it totally unacceptable, and with good reason. "Destroyed" is the proper word.

BP is not intentionally dumping oil into the Gulf. It is an accident. They may very well be liable of having been negligent, but they are not losing all this money on purpose. This would be more like if someone carelessly, but accidentally, knocked over drums of motor oil into the town's water system.

Oops. Gee, I made a mistake. BP intentionally put us all at risk for the sake of maximizing profits.

Our government has no clue whatsoever how to stop the oil leaking. If they are/were in charge they would just call in oil company experts and oil company equipment to try to solve the problem. BP knows much more about this than the US government.

The government officials are not technical experts, no. But neither are BP's executives. The experts should now be reporting to the government rather than to the BP executives - reporting to BP executives means they are reporting to Wall Street. That is unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. Outrageous.

This line - "the government does not have the expertise" - is a red herring, a propaganda talking point. we are talking about who is in charge and whom they answer to and what their priorities are, not who will be doing the technical work.

BP executives should not be in charge, and the government is the proper authority to be in charge. Shareholders needs should not be serves, public welfare must be served. That means the government takes over executive authority from the BP executives.

What good would this do?

The same good that taking a weapon out of a murderer's hands would do.

BP is going to have to pay for much of this, what good would shutting them down be? It's better they make enough money to pay for the mess they've made. In the long run, BP is may be finished. It will happen legally and over time, but by the time the company pays all the damages, settles lawsuits, etc, they just might be out of business anyway.

Who cares about BP and what is going to happen to it? Public welfare is at grave risk.

[tabatha]

12. Agreed. Destroyed is the proper word.

With those extremely long underground plumes, huge dead areas are going to result.
And that affects any adjacent areas, too.

[maryf]

16. +1 nt

[Quantess]

21. "The Gulf is not 'destroyed'"

Not yet, maybe. But that oil is still spilling, and at this rate, the Gulf will eventually be destroyed. Give it time.

[katandmoon]

6. Because a human being can't purchase politicians the way a corporation can

[redirish28]

8. She is not saying EVERY employee should be held responsible but surely

The CEO or Board members should be held responsible.

Say I decide to dig in my back yard (not that I have one.) but let's say I had a back yard decided to dig to put in a pool and unknown to me I dig down and cause a natural gas leak because unknown to me I had a gas pocket under my yard. Would I not be held responsible by the law and my fellow neighbors for any damage I caused?


We should hold corporations to that standard if not to a higher standard. It is because of this corporations actions our country will be changed and us and our future generations will be effected. We should be allowed to hold Corporations responsible!

Why should they beable to cut corners cause death and destruction and not be held responsible.


I can understand and accept accidents happening even top notch safety in place that will happen but when a corporation cuts corners and places profits over the lives of humans that in my book should be called manslaughter if not murder. A corporation who violates rules we all must live by should not be allowed to contiune business.

(the words of my wife.)

[Kablooie]

13. They are big and powerful and control the oil of our military. That's why.

[redirish28]

14. That's just it. Should Corporations have that power over citizens or

for that matter our government?


There is something seriously wrong with this system that basically a corporation can hold such power.

[Stuart G]

15. Agreed. nt.

[tbyg52]

17. Because there's one set of rules for us and another set for them. nt

[redirish28]

18. But that's just it. Why should we keep this mind set that Companies have different

rules than regular people.


Shouldn't we stop this mindset?

[tbyg52]

19. Of course there shouldn't be two set of rules. But there are.

One for meat people and one for corporations. One for people with money and one for the rest of us.

[Cleita]

20. Yep, arrest the board of directors and chief officers for extreme criminal

negligence and non-compliance to regulations of all three companies involved. The want personhood rights, they got em. No more of this business of paying fines or even ignoring fines they should be paying.