Maybe it's time we rethink how US higher education, both private an public, runs...

[WCGreen]

their business or even if it should be considered a business in the first place.

One could make the argument that higher education should be a utility with the same rules and regulations placed on the brick and mortar utilities such as energy and water.

And perhaps the people crying the loudest to inject a little supply and demand into a system that makes demands while ignoring the supply being made by the highly educated pro-charter public school system should be looking instead at higher education. But I guess there isn't any manufactured enemy like a strong Teachers Union to emasculate so where is the fun in that...

The way our "greatest country on the face of the earth" crowd looks at any problem is that it has to be a defect of character when people fail to understand what is actually going on.

Read this example from Saturday's New York Times and tell me there isn't blame to be placed all around on this sad but expanding tale of the inflated worth of a liberal arts education.

"Like many middle-class families, Cortney Munna and her mother began the college selection process with a grim determination. They would do whatever they could to get Cortney into the best possible college, and they maintained a blind faith that the investment would be worth it.

Today, however, Ms. Munna, a 26-year-old graduate of New York University, has nearly $100,000 in student loan debt from her four years in college, and affording the full monthly payments would be a struggle. For much of the time since her 2005 graduation, she’s been enrolled in night school, which allows her to defer loan payments.

This is not a long-term solution, because the interest on the loans continues to pile up. So in an eerie echo of the mortgage crisis, tens of thousands of people like Ms. Munna are facing a reckoning. They and their families made borrowing decisions based more on emotion than reason, much as subprime borrowers assumed the value of their houses would always go up."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/29/your-money/student-loans/29money.html?scp=1&sq=placing%20the%20blame&st=cse


You really need to read the whole story to get what I am talking about.

To me it's simple; by allowing third party lenders to protect themselves from financial culpability, student loans are exempted from most bankruptcy law, there is no incentive for third party lenders to put any restrictions on the availability of student loans. And since the universities are guarded against any kind of loss, they get their cash up front, why should they worry. They too are culpable in this trickle down ponzi scheme. And lets not forget the people who take out the loans based more on a dream of down the road financial success than the reality of economic struggle.

Our higher education system is broken. And it will impede the recovery as more and more graduating students are forced to continue paying for an education that in many cases has no economic value by putting off the large ticket items those entering the work force traditionally purchased.

The bottom line, we must somehow connect the true value of an education to the cost of that education so that "religious and women’s studies" majors, like the subject of the NYT story, have a better grasp on the reality waiting at the end of their 4 year journey.

And we must do this in a way that people will still find someway to study the arts and less lucrative salaried degrees because we, as a society, cannot afford to scrimp on what makes our culture whole.

[skepticscott]

1. Part of the problem is

As you point out, that the cost of a college education has increased beyond all reason over the last 20 years or so. But along with that is the problem (not just confined to purchasing an education) of so many people feeling entitled to spend money they don't have, and buy things they can't really afford.

[WCGreen]

2. Of course..

We all need instant gratification...

My sister is paying back over 100k on an education she got after she was 40. Granted, she is making the money to pay it back now, but can she justify this ten more years down the road when her body starts to fight back?

I'm just glad I went to public school and paid of the few loans I had to take within five years of grauating...

[skepticscott]

3. And not just instant gratification for ourselves

but the ability to project prestige to others because of what we've purchased, be it a 60" flat screen TV, a fancy car, or a college degree. And in this case, there was no thought of the future whatsoever, and no consideration of the true value of what she was buying. Hard to muster much sympathy for this girl...she needs to do exactly what the article suggests..buckle down, live within her means, and take responsibility for her freely made choices, instead of bemoaning the lack of a reset button in her life.

[WCGreen]

4. Jeez, I really wish there was reset button on my life...

I'd be hitting that sucker all the time...

[aikoaiko]

5. We already have a good solution but we've been strangling it for decades

The funding of public university education has been shifting from the general public more toward to the students and tuition. Even small increases in public funding would strengthen public colleges and made them more affordable so that debt can be reduced or eliminated.

Let private schools charge what they want, let people borrow what they want, and let people lend what they want. Protecting the lenders does serve a purpose. Too many graduates would exploit bankruptcy and then lenders would severely limit lending.

The example in the NYT column, Ms. Munna, is fine. She has a job, she can pay for her rent,and she can get by. She just doesn't like her standard of living.

[DailyGrind51]

6. More value needs to be placed on non-degreed employment.

Non-degreed skilled workers, like mechanics, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, metal workers, etc. are very much needed, the jobs are well-paid, and their labor cannot be outsourced.

[Lyric]

7. We really do need to get rid of the bankruptcy exemptions for student loans.

I completely agree--without the threat of bankruptcy loss, student loan vendors can just keep handing out money no matter WHAT the circumstances of the student. They have zero motivation to practice responsible, cautious lending. This, in turn, leads students to take out massive loans for 4-year universities when the local community college could have provided their degree at a fraction of a fraction of the cost.

It also contributes to academic concentration--in other words, small community colleges closing up because all the local students are getting loans and heading off to the huge state university instead. When the CCs close, the students who WANT to be fiscally responsible are suddenly left with few (if any) more cost-effective alternatives to the big state university.

My main worry is that if we reform student loans and remove bankruptcy protections, it's going to remove access to college funding for a LOT of low-income students from poor families with bad credit histories. Maybe a huge expansion of the Pell Grant for low-income students could make up the slack, as well as expanded access to larger, subsidized federal loans.

[WCGreen]

8. Perhaps it would bring the cost of college down if the money isn't there

to inflate the costs.

Colleges and Universities, even the non-profits, see the number of students willing to pay so much money for an education so they keep raising the costs. It's simple supply and demand.

[Nikia]

9. My recommendation to college students for getting a decent job

Get the best possible grades, try to get internships with good companies, develop relationships with your professors, and make friends with students whose families are better off than yours. You must network from the start to get a good job. This is important not only for the first few years. It can affect your entire career.
$22/hour is not horrible. I have seen jobs requiring master's degrees and 5+ years experience paying that or less. A 4 year degree is becoming so common that it does not mean that you will probably get a high paying job. In most cases, it just means that you will be more likely to get a job where you won't be poor your whole life. It seems that a bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma.

[mzteris]

10. We need to stop "pushing college"

onto everyone.

No, every one does NOT NEED to go to college.

It's become a business instead of a place of higher learning.

Apprenticeships, guilds, conservatories, trade schools, technical schools ... these need to play a much much larger role in society.

Get all of those freshmen out of the way who spend an entire year doing nothing pretty much but getting drunk and getting laid, and you've automatically improved the ratios.

Get rid of the deadweight. Those people who really do have no business in college.

Those kids who at the end of year 3 suddenly realize their gpa is barely acceptable, they can't pass the upper level classes of the major they chose", but they have to "get a degree" so the switch to some bullshit something they don't even have an interest in because it's quick and easy. But HEY! They have that damn piece of paper. (And once they get "out" their piece of paper with their barely scraping by is "worth" the same as the kid next to them who graduated magna or summa cum laude.

People who will rack up 100,000 in debt for what? exactly? Are they going to get a job that will pay that off?

Instead of MORE people going to college, there should be fewer people. It should be harder to get in. MUCH harder. And a hell of a lot harder to stay in. College is about HIGHER education - not remedial education. Not just "getting a job". Real studies should be going on. Science and research and development. Honing the brightest minds so they will shine and find the best course of action for the human race.

the public was sold a bill of goods, "get a college education and you can get any highpaying job you want". It's greated a system that only perpetuates debt, lengthens the adolescent behaviour of people who should be contributing ADULTS, and dilutes the quality education that those with the brightest minds deserve.

[WCGreen]

11. Community college is a great way to lower the cost and also

to make sure you can make it in college...

[Odin2005]

12. Higher Education should be a PUBLIC SERVICE, not a business.

The current system just encourages grade inflation because it is treated like a business and students have a mindset that they "deserve" a good grade because they paid for it.