Depending on his next step, now may be time to rally around President Obama

[AllentownJake]

I've been a very vocal critic of this administration and some of its actions in the wake of the financial crisis, on issues of civil rights for my LGBT brothers and sisters, and on his overall economic plans.

That being said, depending on his next step in the crisis in the Gulf, I'm willing to fully drop all my reservations on his administration, if they are willing to show they "get it" now.

In any sane society, the justice and response for invoking the ecological and economic damage BP has done in the gulf would be swift and public. We live in America, we do not live in a sane society. However, now maybe the time some sanity returns to our great country. It all depends on what the guy in the big chair decides to do.

This is Barack's cuban missile crisis moment, his Gettysburg, his planning of operation overlord, his Louisiana purchase. This is the time where a mortal can become a granite/marble God in the eyes of his countrymen.

The large international corporations are out of control. They have become like seperate little countries with their own rules operating within our democratic republic. BP is nothing more than a symbol of a larger beast that includes everyone from Disney to Goldman Sachs. Some are less evil than others, but at the end of the day, these organizations have no national loyalty. Hell, they don't even have loyalty to the people that labor for them outside of a small office space on the top floor.

Barack has a chance to drive a dagger through the heart of these organizations.

With BP, I believe he has done what was necessary, but it is now been proven they can't do anything to fix the mess they created. As such, it may be time for the President to corporate death penalty them.

There is a $4300 fine for each barrel of oil spilled in US waters federally. I believe now is the time to assess that fine. With the current estimates of oil spilled, I believe this is suitable to bankrupt BP.

They can tie this up in court, but the nice thing about the markets is by announcing the assessment of the fine, their equity value will disappear rather quickly.

Mr. President, you have a tool to save your nation and to show who is in charge, the elected leadership. Use it.

[gateley]

1. K&R nt

[MindandSoul]

2. Excellent! I hope President Obama "hears" you! I sure do!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

3. I don't disagree with you but I think it is better for BP to remain solvent WHILE the fix is ongoing

so that they can spend down their corporate assets on addressing the problem.

In very short order I think it will be established that they are both criminally and civilly liable.

We need to keep an eye on them to watch for sudden Enron type partnerships and whatnot springing up in an effort to protect their assets in a series of fraudulent conveyances. I think their assets should be put under Federal supervision right away.

[AllentownJake]

4. I think the fines are enough

To confiscate all US based assets.

Hell if I'm short $10,000 on my income taxes the IRS has no problem freezing my bank accounts without even a hearing.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

7. While President Obama has a chance to "drive a dagger through the heart"

of these organizations", does he have the DESIRE to do so?

Previous history would lead me to say no, but you never know. This may finally be the moment in our history where it becomes clear to the American public that corporations have actually put the world at risk in order to make ungodly(literally) and excessive profits.

Will President Obama rise to the challenge now before him or will he remain a protector of the status quo and the corporate cannibals?

[AllentownJake]

8. Barack's greatest strength and biggest weakness

Is his desire for win-win situations and trying to find them. BP has openly lied to him. I think a light bulb moment will eventually occur.

The man is rather ruthless when he sees there is no win-win.

[msongs]

24. links? evidence? hmmm nt

[AllentownJake]

27. Healthcare Reform nt

[northernlights]

87. I'm confused. is health INSURANCE reform an example of

Obama recognizing there is no win-win, playing hardball and ramming a win for the people he is supposed to represent?

Because if that's what you mean, we're can kiss the Gulf of Mexico goodby...there will be no fix until BP is able to drill its new wells, which is 90 days *at the earliest* and the Gulf will die. And then the oil industry will be free to drill there to their hearts content because there won't be an environment left to protect. And we the people will pay...along with all living beings in the Gulf.

I fear that is the plan, too. :(

[AllentownJake]

88. It is an example of the President

Thinking he can appease two parties and trying. To the administration this was a win-win.

Remember the "big fucking deal"

The President is not responsible for this happening. He is responsible for making sure the guilty parties pay for what they have done and doing his best to mitigate and clean up the damage.

As for the Gulf, it is already fucked for at least a generation.

[northernlights]

90. he is responsible in that he chose Salazar

and in that his administration failed to clean up MMS, who allowed the drilling to go ahead without a lot in place...environmental studies, appropriate failsafes, actual disaster plans, etc.

He is also responsible in that his administration was slow to respond, was slow to realize that Tony Hayward is a liar, and consistently downplayed the size of the geyser, playing the "middle ground."

He's responsible in that his administration told BP to find a less toxic, more effective dispersant than COREXIT, and BP said no. End of story, COREXIT continues to be dumped into the Gulf.

He's responsible in that BP is apparently refusing to allow cleanup workers to wear respirators, saying they aren't required to, and forcing the workers to be heavily exposed to toxins that are known carcinogens and known to cause neurological disorders. So the administration *could* order the workers to wear respirators -- but 38 days into this catastrohpe has yet to do so.

Well, this isn't politics and this isn't a game. It is real, and there is no "middle ground." The amount of oil gushing is the amount of oil gushing. Its toxicity is its toxicity.

There is no win/win. There is only lose/lose worse. Take the right action, we lose part of the Gulf of Mexico. Inaction or wrong action, the entire Gulf will be destroyed. The only good news I've seen is that a few articles suggest that the administration does finally recognize that the worse case scenario -- loss of the entire Gulf of Mexico -- is a possibility.

Due to the slow response, I'm expecting the lose worse scenario at this point...

[AllentownJake]

91. The administration

has been remarkably trusting of industries whether it be banking or oil exploration till their hands are singed. You think they would eventually learn....

Ideologically he is a third way democrat and he will act as such till it is his ass on the line, his ass is on the line right now as such he is more likely to do the right thing.

[northernlights]

111. I hope so

so far, though, he does seem to be a slow learner. And he has developed quite the track record of saying one thing in his speeches, and doing something totally else. I don't even bother to listen to him any more... :(

[ShortnFiery]

5. No, if he stayed in New Orleans for more that a few hours ... over Memorial Day weekend ...

but while we face perhaps the most profound natural disaster in our nation's history, he did not stay and comfort the good people in the Gulf.

No, I can't support him in this area. I'm disappointed beyond words.

[AllentownJake]

6. I don't want the President walking around the gulf

It takes resources away in the area. As having worked a Presidential candidates events multiple times in 2008, the resources for a President to walk around are ridiculous.

I'd rather the under secretarires who know more about these situations and how to deal with them, be walking around. They don't require snipers to supervise their movements.

[ShortnFiery]

10. Sorry, an extra day of bring Michelle and the girls and showing true empathy would

have rallied the ENTIRE (minus the right wing) Nation around President Obama. That's all it would have taken - but he is NOT in touch with his emotional side.

I admittedly lack intellectual chops that many here clearly demonstrate which often puts me at a disadvantage.

However, our President is lacking in emotional intellect ... and it shows. :shrug:

[AllentownJake]

11. It is a catch 22 for the President

He spends too much time there, he is grandstanding, he spends too little he doesn't care.

Here is the truth, the President can do little right now in handling this. The US Government does not have the resources to clean up the area nor do they have the resources to stop the oil from the well short of using a nuclear weapon which has its own issues.

We will see on his next step, where his heart lies. Not from a photo-op.

[ShortnFiery]

12. No it's not. The benefits FAR outweigh the costs.

I'm tired of making excuses for our leaders' mistakes. I was burned out during the Clinton Presidency. :(

[ShortnFiery]

14. p.s. The President MUST order that these poison dispersants cease being used and then ...

put a shout out for ALL OIL COMPANIES WORLD-WIDE to a.s.a.p. have an open invitation (processed though the control of the Coast Guard) to bring all oil skimming equipment to the GULF. Tell them ALL all the oil that they recover is THEIRS for processing and profit.

Leave the ghouls in BP in charge of plugging the leak and have at it!

You better believe we'd get the lion's share of this spill cleaned up in the open waters. At least all OIL that hasnt' been scattered/poisoned by dispersants, that is. :thumbsup:

[AllentownJake]

15. I'm cutting him some slack on what is going on right now

As much as people are trying to find analogies from everything from Katrina, Hiroshima, and Wounded Knee...

This disaster has no comparison. It is a black swan event that stands on its own and I don't know if there is really an effective response to this. There will be no happy ending to this, only an ending that is a little less heart breaking than another.

[ShortnFiery]

16. He's seriously screwing this up with regard to "perception."

President Obama lectures us about empathy, but he does NOT show it. That's why bringing, at least, Michelle to the Gulf would go a long way to helping those TRAUMATIZED people come to terms with this situation and re-gain trust in our Executive Branch's leadership.

[AllentownJake]

19. I doubt if I just lost my livliehood for a few generations

any public official or figure could make me feel better about what just happened. Maybe a date with Jennifer Love Hewitt but outside of a distraction to the reality, I doubt anything would make me feel better.

[ShortnFiery]

22. You'd be surprised. A few minutes of "active listening"and/or a few phone calls by those at the top

can ensure a lifetime of fidelity by a constituent.

[AllentownJake]

25. I'd probably not bother to show-up

Than again, my bullshit detector is bigger than most people. Than again, if they bring Jennifer Love Hewitt down, I'm there..she's a beauty.

[ShortnFiery]

28. Mark my words: Obama is seriously screwing this up on a PR level.

Rahm implied that many of us lefties are somewhat "retarded?" ... well, with regard to EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE I sadly feel confident making the same claim of our Executive Branch right now with regard to the Gulf Coast disaster. :(

[AllentownJake]

31. Well Rahm is retarded

This lefty is cutting him some slack because part of my leftist nature is to understand there are things that human beings do, that they can't undo, and the President is marginally responsible for this situation.

He is responsible for justice and trying to do the best he can to clean-up. He fucks that up, I'll be the first person with a pitchfork...;-)

Trust me.

[ShortnFiery]

35. No Slack here.

They've used it all up. And they will be defeated in 2012 if they don't have at least Michelle get down to New Orleans to help those afflicted people. :shrug:

[johnaries]

81. Exactly. I agree completely.

People need reassurances, but he will still be blamed for a "photo-op". From the response of some he is helping to expedite many actions. And I think it is important that he get a first-hand assessment. But the more time he spends done there local resources are pulled away from their jobs to protect him. So it is a careful balancing act. And one that he will be criticized for no matter how well he does the balancing.

[Celebration]

13. I sort of agree with you

If I were President, I would set up a Houston office in BP headquarters, or somewhere in Louisianna, and spend at least one fourth of my time there.

But I do have to allow for individual differences in ways to handle the situation. And while I admit that he can do nothing to stop the flow of oil, he needs to put a kick ass environmentalist in charge of dealing with the oil that is out there, and really ORDER and coordinate the cleanup, and actually answer people who are offering proven methods to separate the oil and water.

[AllentownJake]

17. I know I get people angry when I say this

I don't see an effective clean-up mechanism in our arsenal.

I agree more competent people should be in charge of answering questions, that being said, I'm doubtful we have the capablity of cleaning up the mess we have created effectively.

[ShortnFiery]

21. Then extend an OPEN INVITATION for help across the oil industry and throughout the world?

We're there to help everyone else when natural disaster strikes, why not let OTHERS help us? Or does that not fit with our hegemonic plan to invade Pakistan and allow Israel to bomb Iran?

[AllentownJake]

23. How exactly are they going to help?

I'm all for taking help, but I doubt they are more intelligent in fixing this than we are.

Sometimes man creates a situation it can't fix. I don't live far from one in Centralia, PA.

[ShortnFiery]

30. All the oil the competition (BP) can skim and/or recover is THEIRS for reprocessing.

Oh yeah, they'll come out and give it their BEST EFFORT to assist us in the clean up. :-)

[AllentownJake]

32. The oil from my understanding

Is not all floating on the surface, from what I'm reading a majority is frozen and slowly melting and moving inland.

[ShortnFiery]

33. That's mostly due to dispersants. STOP using those vile dispersants and call in for international

help by all others within the Oil Industry.

[AllentownJake]

34. I think the disperant is only a partial reason

It is leaking out at quite a deep depth with a lot of pressure and low temperatures.

Most of our clean-up efforts and understanding of such issues are at much lower depths and lower pressures.

[ShortnFiery]

37. No, bring them here anyway and let them do what they can. We haven't even TRIED!

We're taking BP's word on this as well as allowing them to POISON our waters with dispersants.

It's time to fully take charge and humble ourselves to reach out to the international Oil Industry experts for help ... NOT JUST CONSULTATIONS. :thumbsup:

[AllentownJake]

44. Not against that

but I'm doubtful they have any better ideas.

[yowzayowzayowza]

45. Obama putting his family on the beach for a photo op would be...

at least as dumb as Michael Jackson dangling his child out the window so the press could take a peek.

[goclark]

86. Many, including me, disagree with your assessment nt

[Number23]

104. Looks like it's going to be their last assessment too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=127360

[K8-EEE]

18. I'm so sick if the photo op mentality

Ridiculous

[AllentownJake]

72. Yes it is rather ridiculous

but it is a symptom of our image over substance culture.

[BeFree]

9. This is the moment

There is no tomorrow if today is not survived.

BP.us is tomorrow. We, the people, must own BP, lock, stock and barrel.

The future profits just might be enough to pay for the mitigation of the murder of the gulf. If not, we can raise gas prices overnight to balance the book.

This course, making BP ours, is the only way we might survive.

[BeFree]

48. Can't be done?

We, the people, own most of GM, right? Don't tell me it can't be done.

[AllentownJake]

50. I still want Michael Moore's solution to GM

Not going to happen, but we can dream.

[BeFree]

59. We own GM

What? Is BP to big to own?

[AllentownJake]

61. I'd rather it be chopped up

A government run large corporation is no more responsible than a private owned one..Freddie and Fannie anyone?

[BeFree]

64. Gawd

I figured you might be an anti-socialist.

Freddie and Fannie were taken over by capitalist under bushco. It wasn't government at fault, it was capitalist crooks in government who screwed Fannie and Freddie.


All your BP are belong to us.

[AllentownJake]

65. The problems began under Clinton

I'm anti-big.

Any power, grown large enough, no matter what ideological bullshit name you attach to it will abuse its power, whether it is a politburo or a congress or a corporate board.

Large entities do really large bad things. You can't fight human nature when it comes to power.

Socialism, Capitalism, Communism, Fascism does not matter size and scope of power will eventually lead to abuse.

At the end of the day even if I buy into your argument, you are assuming a world where your political foes never take power again...if you wish to talk about Bushco.

[BeFree]

66. So, you're anti-life, as we know it?

I think you just like playing word games. Good bye.

[AllentownJake]

67. I think one of the roles of government is to control our worst impulses

Not enable them.

A large government controlled BP will behave no better than a large private controlled BP. If anything it might behave worse as the political leadership has a vested interest in covering up its activities even more.

Of course a debate on human nature proven by 6000 years of recorded history is probably not something you are up for on a Sunday Afternoon.

[BeFree]

68. No

Not with you. You can't even stick it to BP even tho they are fucking you.

Basically, useless.

[AllentownJake]

69. I think calling for them to be bankrupted through fines

and given the corporate death penalty by the market in reaction is sticking it to them.

Unless you have a better legal avenue short of boiling people in oil.

[BeFree]

70. Go ahead

Pay those attorneys all that blood money.

Ya know, you need to figure out WTF is going on.

All your BP are belong to US. And making profits for the people. Yeah, socialism!! OMG!!

[AllentownJake]

71. You aren't even making sense

There is a mechanism for a $4300 fine per barrel effectively wiping out their liquid assets and bankrupting them. Even if they fight it in court, their share drops to zero wiping out much of the wealth of their executives and board members, followed by criminal investigations.

I mean unless you are looking to storm the Bastille and erect guillotines, I don't see where you are coming from.

[BeFree]

75. Storm the bastille?

Like I actually said, you are only interested in word games, and attorneys, and accountants, and all that shit. Fuck that shit.

All your BP are belong to US.

BP now working for me!!

Remember that and repeat 100 times, and call me tomorrow,

[AllentownJake]

77. I'm not playing any word games

You have made absolute no sense. BP belongs to us...so does Fannie and Freddie

How is that working out was my question...even if I bought into your argument that a democratic administration can make this good...you ignore the real possibility of the opposition party taking power...which will eventually happen.

Fine and smash to many pieces. That is my answer.

[Scuba]

20. We don't want to bankrupt BP. We need the future profits to....

...pay to clean up the mess and compensate the victims.

Nationalizing BP is the answer, not bankrupting them.

[HughMoran]

26. Before or after they cap the well?

[AllentownJake]

29. They aren't going to cap it

They will get a relief well in 60 days or they will nuke it. We can bankrupt them and take their assets for clean-up/relocation of those effected.

[HughMoran]

36. Now, or in 60 days?

[AllentownJake]

38. We will see little relief for 60 days

If they nuke it they will create radioactive oil surrounding it that will be more toxic than the oil already in place.

Right now complex cost benefit analysis are being created that show awful or fucking awful. There is no good category right now in the discussion.

[HughMoran]

41. Should they stop the LMRP top cap operation?

You're 100% sure it will fail to recover any oil?

[AllentownJake]

43. I'm never 100% sure of anything

However, if it was viewed as something that would work by the people in charge...it would have been tried prior to top kill. Logically.

[HughMoran]

46. Top Kill has a track record & couldn't have been tried if LMRP was done first

True, they have not tried LMRP, but the syphon tube had limited success and this is a better idea engineering-wise.

[AllentownJake]

47. We are testing the limits of human engineering in drilling there in the first place

You are the engineer, I'm just the guy who stabs the wounded afterward and assigns blame.

[HughMoran]

51. I've repeatedly said we shouldn't be drilling deep-water in the first place

On this we agree. I am arguing that we should tap the engineering power we have available to us and try whatever we can before exacting justice from BP. So long as the politicians and other mucky-mucks stay out of their business, they will be motivated. Nothing could be more motivating to an engineering team than the possibility of cutting short the spill that is creating the worst national disaster in our history. Besides, it will take a lot of homework by the lawyers to properly nail down a process for nailing BP - I say let the engineers do what they do best in the meantime.

(now back to enjoying the French toast I just made for me and the kids :) )

[AllentownJake]

52. I think politically

Which as much as people whine, is always a consideration, there comes a point where heads need to go on spikes.

We are getting close to that point.

[HughMoran]

Yes, we are - heads are ready to roll.

Now I have to roll - gotta take my oldest girl clothes shopping - what could be more fun :eyes:

[AllentownJake]

55. Swimming and drinking

Which is where I'm headed shortly.

[global1]

39. Obama Needs To Use His Bully Pulpit To Force Congress Into Raising The Liability Limit.......

the Menendez bill that keeps on getting stopped by the Repugs. He needs to hammer them and let the American people know that it is the Repugs that are preventing that from happening. We all know that if and when BP is successful in stopping this gusher that they will do everything that they can to limit their liability and tie this up in litigation for decades. So Congress needs to act now to get this liability limit raised - and it should be unlimited liability and BP should be held accountable for every aspect of the damages that they've foisted upon us.

If Congress doesn't do this - a question - can Obama use his Executive Order powers to raise it himself?

[AllentownJake]

42. I don't think the President can raise it unilaterally

What he can do is enforce the existing law regarding fines on oil spills. In actuality the $4300 a barrel fine is larger than any award that will be given in the civil court system.

[laughingliberal]

93. President Obama is on record as opposing the retroactive cap on liability. nt

[Greyhound]

103. See, this is the stuff that makes me crazy. Raising the limit?

Raising the limit cedes the very concept that there should be a limit.

Is the damage that a psychopathic behemoth like BP limited? How can the very concept of limiting the liability any person or organization that can do virtually unlimited damage even seem sane?

You know, over 300 years ago Lloyd's underwriters were liable for their bets "down to their last cufflink", IOW if they made too big a bet and lost, they literally lost everything. Their creditors might, out of mercy, allow them to keep the clothes they had on, but absolutely everything was at risk. The result was that Lloyd's became The Standard because any risk they wouldn't take was far too great a risk for anyone to take.

[Jennicut]

40. More important that justice with BP to me is the investing in alternative energy.

The President ever so briefly mentioned something close to peak oil at the Press Conference the other day. Now would be the time to start bringing up the fact that we are so incredibly behind on getting renewables started as a real alternative it is not funny. We are searching for oil that is getting harder to find. Rethugs say that if we only drilled in more shallow water and in Alaska but can because of environmentalists. But the truth remains that the major oil fields in the world are declining every year. We keep putting this off and off. Some day the real crunch will come. Climate change and the easy oil being harder to find is really going to cause us major problems. Obama has the opportunity to catch the public interest and perhaps even change some political minds. Very hard to do with the politicians we have now tied to oil and gas and coal but there is a slight opening here.

[MadHound]

49. Hard to rally round a president who is conducting an assault on education and me personally

As far as the Gulf disaster, well, he's going to have to show me that he is serious about cleaning it up and going after BP. He hasn't shown that so far.

I will rally round him when he starts rallying round me, and every other person instead of corporations.

[bvar22]

53. I love your posts, Jake,

But I don't share your optimism.
After the HCR betrayal, Wall Street debacle, increasing Military spending, protection of Bush criminals, lobbying for MORE Free Trade and Free Markets, and more.....
Obama has shown that he is nothing more than a Front Man for BIG MONEY.

He will NOT bring justice to BP.
He WILL stand between BP and Justice to protect the Ownership Class.
Thats what he does.

[AllentownJake]

54. and when he does

We fire everything we have at him for 2012.

Till than we remain "reasonable"

:evilgrin:

[asdjrocky]

56. We'll see if the emperor does more than just change his clothes.

I've yet to see any sign that Obama is not a good friend of the corporation.

[AllentownJake]

57. Patience

We must remain reasonable until we are absolutely proven right.

I'm from PA. Ben Franklin is the hero we grew up with.

[Karmadillo]

58. And if he blinks instead of going for his dagger? What then?

nt

[AllentownJake]

60. Well than even the most ardent apologist

cannot fault us for rebelling against his leadership.

[laughingliberal]

95. I wouldn't bet on that. The things I've seen Democrats defend these last 16 mos have curled my hair.

:wow:

[AllentownJake]

101. Well this will settle all arguments

after this, if there is not adequate response it is ok to assume they are on the payroll or stupid.

[laughingliberal]

107. That's a good point. I can't imagine any valid defense of it. nt

[Karenina]

62. That's a-mighty white of you!

:hide:

[AllentownJake]

63. I'm German

I hold no shame of my heritage or what my clan has accomplished in PA since the 1720s.

[Karenina]

74. Holla die Waldfee!!!

Nicht von schlechten Eltern, aber da bist Du aus dem Holzweg. Wir sitzen alle im selben Boot. :pals:

[AllentownJake]

78. Wir sind alle gefickt unabhängig. Liegestühle auf einem sinkenden Schiff.

[Karenina]

102. One world is enough for all of us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTlRxohWf8I&feature=related

Brit pur. Contrast it with this...

http://www.therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5189&updaterx=2010-05-30+01%3A10%3A52

Gibt's viele Niveau davon. Vorschlag...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxESvUdIUuE

[AllentownJake]

105. I'm of the opinion of what has been done here

cannot be undone at least not during my lifetime.

Sometimes we fuck things up something fierce.

[Karenina]

108. I TOTALLY AGREE!!!

:pals:

[johnaries]

73. I believe he has already begun.

I don't believe that "driving a dagger through the heart" of the multi-nationals is necessary. But I do agree that they are out-of-control and that we should make sure that their actions within our borders are responsible. To that end, Obama and Congress has already begun:

- attempting to up the compensation cap to $10billion (which is being blocked by Republicans, surprise, surprise)
- investigations into BP's performance/culpability
- complete review and overhaul of regulations and oversight
- complete overhaul and restructuring of MMS
- complete review and overhaul of the process of EPA approval v waivers
- moratorium on new drilling until the processes can be reviewed and revised

We'll have to wait and see what all of the above means, but at least it's a good start.

But as far as "driving a dagger through the heart of the multi-nationals" is concerned, that's setting the bar way too high and is totally unnecessary. I agree, however, that we should watch Obama's and Congress' response (Congress, since they have to pass the laws) carefully.

[AllentownJake]

76. They are the greatest threat the world has seen to world stability since the 1930s

Driving a dagger through the heart of them is a matter of war and peace.

[johnaries]

79. Let me ask you this, if Obama pushed for serious reform,

oversight, and accountability but fell short of the "dagger through the heart", would you still be willing to rally behind him to get those reforms accomplished?

[AllentownJake]

80. Sure if it looks like a step to neutralizing their power

However, you have organizations that abuse international borders to avoid legal responsibility for their actions and bribe public officials.

At the end of the day, when you have organizations that shop for legal codes in different countries to hide awful operations and abuse humanity I'm seriously concerned. These organizations pick and choose based on where they can abuse the legal code the most. I consider many to be an international crime syndicate and it should be viewed and treated as such.

[johnaries]

82. I agree. Although it will be difficult. I do hope he continues to push

for tax code reform, although I can understand how there are other priorities.

In the meantime, I will continue to look for "Fair Trade" products and encourage others to do the same. I can't always afford them, but I do give them preferential treatment when I can. I'm afraid that the multi-national problem is going to take a multi-national solution. But I hope that Obama and the rest of us do what we can.

Thanks!

[laughingliberal]

96. +1000 nt

[old mark]

83. Rec. I have come to dislike Obama's conservative politics, but I am always open to changing

my mind if he ever decides to actually become a democrat.
He shows signs of it every so often, then backs away...I'd love to see him really stand up, but I am sceptical he ever will.

He may never get a better opportunity....


mark

[laughingliberal]

97. Me too. I'm so hoping the flicker I see every so often takes hold and becomes a bonfire.

Not that I see it as likely but a girl can dream. :)

[JCMach1]

84. Don't bankrupt them, that's a whole other legal scam-- nationalize their US assets!

And do it ASAP. And give every American a piece of the assets that come from the seizure. Just like Alaska, put the check in mail each year. Compensation would also be paid out of the fund.

[AllentownJake]

85. Given the US governments track record

Them actively being involved in owning an oil company is not something that appeals to me.

I think fining them involves seizing their liquid assets...let their competitors dine on the rest of the carcus with the knowledge of what was done to BP.

[bvar22]

92. Even with that, the REAL criminals....

...will escape with their loot intact.
There needs to be some procedure for holding the decision makers personally liable when they behave recklessly with our money, our environment, or any element of our common wealth.

[AllentownJake]

94. Well that is what the concept of limited liability and corporate personhood is about

Creating a new aristocracy.

[laughingliberal]

98. Man, if this isn't the time for an FDR moment...nt

[AllentownJake]

99. They aren't going to go quietly in the night

Ask JFK.

[laughingliberal]

109. Word

sigh...

[JCMach1]

117. No, keep the assets, hire private industry to pull out the oil.

[Liberal_in_LA]

89. kick

[IndianaGreen]

100. Obama ain't gonna drive a 'dagger through the heart of these organizations'

If he even made the most feeble attempt, he would find himself as the American version of President Manuel Zelaya of Honduras.

The American are inconsequential when it comes to running this country.

[Richard Steele]

106. I'm pretty much DONE with that 'rallying around' thing.

I voted for a LEADER, and all I got was another Politician.

[frustrated_lefty]

110. No, the time to rally around him is long gone,

It's time for him to get out of the way and make room for a person who will stand behind his spoken ideals. It's been nice to have a change from Bush, but it would be better to have some change that actually takes place.

[inna]

112. WOW. Is this why ShortnFiery was TS'd?? Damn.

[AllentownJake]

114. Doubtful

but feel free to start rumors.

[inna]

115. are you insinuating i have EVER started ANY rumors, here or elsewhere??

shame on you, Jake.


ETA: you're on my manual ignore, from now on.

[FlaGatorJD]

113. I'm in

:thumbsup:

[JVS]

116. I think we've all seen the trajectory this is taking over the last month.

[Spheric]

118. Jake, if Obama does indeed come through, then I'll help erect the statue.

But, in the meantime, I'm not about to lay off of him and just sit back while we wait and see.

Fool me once and all that.

Holding his feet to the fire is not likely to make him any less resistant to real change. And believe me, at the moment, I have no problem with keeping this fire burning.

:mad:

[skeptical cynic]

119. BP's arrogance is evidence of how little they fear

Outrage by elected officials is necessary right now. There is a script that must be followed. An illusion must be maintained. Behind the scenes the same old people are wining and dining the same old people.

We'll see a smiling public handshake soon enough.